Re: [Amel] bow truster


Lior <lior246@...>
 

dear bill and gary

thank you very much for your help.
yes, it was the solenoid!
riza could help me.

this forum is amazing with good people  that always help.

lior



ב-21 באוק 2013, בשעה 12:25, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Lior<

1. if it is soleniod, is it posible that it works again for few times? YES, this is possible
2. i have a spare similar soleniod but it is written 12v, can i try this one? NO, your bow thruster is 24 volts and I assume that all of the controls are 12 volts
3. i thought maybe it could be the switch. there are four cabels connected. two lefe and two right. These cables are switch cables. on each side of the switch you have 2 cables connected to the switch...activating the switch causes these two cables to connect. So one set of two cables for PORT thrust and one set of two cables for STARBOARD thrust. On each side of the switch, one will be hot (+24V) with the switch in neutral, then with the switch moved either left or right, the other wire on the same side will become connected to the first wire and be hot (+24V).

If I was checking this, I would find a good 24 volt ground to connect the negative cable to the voltmeter, then checking one side at a time find the hot terminal on each side of the switch. Then move the switch to see if the switch turns on the other terminal on each side. You can also turn the power off to the switch and check continuity (connection), but that will not tell you which switch terminal is the input and which one is the output. I think that the switch is probably OK because the switch will not wear out with use like a solenoid will.

So simply stated your bow thruster has two switches that have to operate for PORT and two for STARBOARD.

The first switch for PORT will be at the joy stick in the cockpit. That switch sends 24 volts to the electromagnet inside the PORT solenoid. When the electromagnet is engaged, another switch connects inside the solenoid. This last connection will be a high amp connection with more than 100 amps flowing through the connection...that is enough amperage to weld some metals. So every time you move the joy stick to PORT inside that solenoid there is some burning at the contact points. As the burning gets worse, the contact gets worse and eventually it connects some of the time, then not all. The same thing happens to the STARBOARD solenoid when it is engaged.

Maybe you can understand why I assume that it is the solenoid?

I will be leaving for the airport in a few minutes and be off line for about 10 days. I suggest that you contact Riza at Emek Marine.

Bill
BeBe



On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:
 

bill,
thanks a lot for your mail.
first, today after many tries it worked again for one or two times and then it did work again.
 i have a few questions:
1. if it is soleniod, is it posible that it works again for few times?
2. i have a spare similar soleniod but it is written 12v, can i try this one? or it will burn?
3. i thought maybe it could be the switch. there are four cabels connected. two lefe and two right.
only one left down and the right down are not connected. shel i chek volt or conection? 

thanks a lot
lior



ב-21 באוק 2013, בשעה 09:32, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> כתב/ה:

 

Lior,

Again, I am not familiar with the exact system in a 54, but know that it works with solenoids.
It works something like this:
  1. When the cockpit joy stick is pressed to port, a 24 volt low amp current is sent to the low amp side of a 24 volt PORT solenoid.
  2. The low amp side of the solenoid triggers an electromagnet which when energized, closes a 24 volt high amperage switch. When this happens you should be able to hear a click if you are near the solenoid.
  3. When the cockpit joy stick is pressed to starboard, the same thing happens, but to a different solenoid...the STARBOARD solenoid.
Solenoids go bad because the high amperage switching ON causes a slight burning of the contacts...the more it is used, the more burned the contacts become. The more they are burned the more resistance in the circuit until finally there is not enough current flow. I happen to really appreciate the very large over-sized tractor solenoids that Amel used on the Super Maramu solenoids, but now Amel uses an off-the-shelf bow thruster that has other advantages over the Super Maramu.

What I do not know is if the two solenoids are inside the control box, or not. I talked to another owner of a 54 and I think I remember him telling me that they are NOT inside the control box, but I am not sure.

It is possible that the joy stick is not working on one side. The way the joy stick works, in an emergency, you could replace it with two ordinary toggle switches, making sure that you do not turn them ON at the same time...in other words, one MUST be OFF, while the other is ON. If you happen to have a DPDT switch (Double Pole Double Throw)...this switch could temporarily replace the joy stick. With a voltmeter you should be able to check to see if the joy stick is working. 

Of course it is also possible that an electrical connection is loose somewhere.

And a "long-shot" is that the charge state of your batteries or the condition of your batteries is bad. For instance, you could have a short in one of the batteries in your house bank. This can cause a significant loss of "cranking amps." In this case, it is possible that one high amperage circuit will work (bow thruster in one direction) but another will not (bow thruster in the other direction). You can probably eliminate this as a cause by trying the bow thruster with a battery charger ON...either the main engine at 1,500 rpm, or the generator ON and the 100 amp battery charger ON...don't do a lot of this...just do it to check it...and let me know if your bow thruster works when the batteries are charging.

If the above does not help you get to the problem, tracing the electrical circuit is probably needed. Can you get an electrician there?

Bill


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 5:58 AM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:
 

dear gary and bill

i changed this part but it is still the same. i even have two spares and triad both. any other suggestion?

thanks a lot
lior



ב-20 באוק 2013, בשעה 19:54, Bozo Cinq <bozocinq@...> כתב/ה:

 

Iior,


When you are looking at the Bow Thruster unit-on the left side of the motor unit is attached the black solenoid box with the big electric wires attached. If you look further down the side to underneath this solenoid unit you should see the control box which you should be able to slide towards you out of the clip that is holding it. Once out you should be able to unplug the control unit and plug in the new one. BESURE YOU TURN OFF THE POWER TO THE BOW THRUSTER BY SHUTTING OFF THE BATTERIES before replacing the control box. Hope this helps!

Gary

Bozo Cinq
AMEL 54 - #44








On Oct 20, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:

 

gary and bob

i have this part in the boat. can you write me where it is exactly?

thanks
lior



ב-20 באוק 2013, בשעה 15:34, Bozo Cinq <bozocinq@...> כתב/ה:

 

Loir,

BeBe is correct. To be a little more specific First I would look at what is called an electronic control Box which is located in a bracket under the solenoid. It is simply a process of unplugging the old box and replacing it with a new one. I carry a spare. I acquired the item from Side-power and the item number is ART. no. 6 12321.  I will mention that I have replaced my solenoid with bigger ones as the originals were to small for the motor so therefore if you have the originals then it may take a different control box. The item number should be on the control box.

Gary

Bozo Cinq
AMEL 54 - #44








On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:47 AM, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

 

Lior,

This will not help you much, but an electrician will probably find a fault in the control box. I have not seen the controls, but I am sure that one solenoid is not working. It is very unlikely that it is anything else. So start there and save some time. If you are coming to Gocek, I know that Emek Marine has parts for the 54 bow thruster and can help you. 

Contact for Emek is:
Riza Cagdas CAKIR 
Chief Operating Officer
EMEK MARIN LTD.STI
Iskele Mah 62B 48310 Gocek\Mugla\TURKEY
Tel:+90 252 645 2468
Fax:+90 252 645 2899
cagdas"at"emekmarin.com
www.emekmarin.com


On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Lior <lior246@...> wrote:
 

hi 

my bow truster works only in the right side. when i try to use the left side, it does not work... maybe can someone help me? i am in a small port in Greece...

thanks
lior, gnom 7, amel 54 #18











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