Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers


Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Hi Eric

 

In Europe there is 220v alternating current between blue and brown wires but the blue wire is also connected to earth (i.e. it is grounded) at the source of the power  (Gary Silver explained this very well in previous posts) – I suppose this is why it is called NEUTRAL  because in a correctly wire installation there should be no potential (zero volts) between the neutral wire and earth and therefore no danger of electric shock. The brown wire however is not grounded and is therefore LIVE  and one could therefore call it “hot” as it has the potential to cause electrocution.

 

In practical terms though it can sometimes be difficult in appliances to sort out which wire is actually “hot” relative to earth as double insulated appliances in Europe only need to have two wire connectors, which are reversible!

 

Andrew

 

 

Ronpische

SM2k 472

Canet en Roussillion, France

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2015 8:35 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

 

 

Dear Hanspeter,

I said that between the blue brown you  have 220 volts between them and that the yellow green is earth.

I made no reference to the earth being connected to the the blue or brown.

Could you please tell me what the voltage is between the blue and earth and the brown and earth? If you have as you say and I agree that both the brown and blue are hot then in USA electrical terms there is no neutral in other words no voltage - or neutral. Please let me know about the voltages as I requested and re -read my comments.

Fair winds,

eric



----- Original Message -----
From: "'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2015 10:25 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> To Eric, Kimberlite
> Eric Your comments about Europen 220 System.
> You are not correct and it was writen a Lot of confusing stuff
> about invertets, boundings , Yellow/green
> In Europe we have of course 220 V 50 Hz
> Brown , Blue and earth
> The Blue is neutral otherwise we do not have 220 Volt. Neutral
> has nothing to do with neutral we call them Null Leiter (in German)
> So, the Brown and the Blue are hot. Nothing to do with earth/g/y
> In the US we put 2 110 v Lines to 220 v easy, but still 60 Hz
> Hanspeter
> SM/16 Tamango 2
> Hanspeter Baettig
> Dipl. El. Ing. ETS
>
>
>
> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>
> > Am 30.01.2015 um 16:26 schrieb "Kent Robertson
> karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
> :>
> > Hi again, everyone.
> > Another question about galvanic isolation.
> > I do not have an isolation transformer, but I do have a
> transformer for 110 shorepower that produces 220VAC. Both the
> direct 220 and the 220 from the transformer enter a junction box
> on the forward engine room bulkhead. There are two receptacles,
> one marked 110 to 220 transformer, the other marked 220 direct.
> I have to switch the plug from one to the other depending on
> whether I'm hooked up to 220 or 110 shorepower.
> >
> > I want to add a galvanic isolator to my shore power
> connections. Do I have to have two of them (one for the 110
> input and the other for the 220 input), or can I put a single
> unit in on the output which takes either to the boat systems? Or
> is there a unit that would accept both the 110 input and the 220
> input where they enter the boat (I guess in the aft lazarette)?
> Can anyone suggest a specific unit that works for this
> application on your Amel?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Kent
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Fri, 1/30/15, kimberlite@... wrote:
> > Hi ,you use the word neutral in your comments about
> > your inverter charger.Here
> > in the usa there are 4 wires on a 220 volt circuit. 2 hot
> > leads each 110 volts (usually red and black) and a neutral
> > white.There is also a green
> > Ground ( earth)
> > European
> > wiring does not have a neutral just 220 volts between the
> > blue and brown wire and a yellow green earth.
> > The yellow green earth on the Ac circuit
> > should not be connected to the boat bonding. even though the
> > wires are the same color Yellow-Green. Although
> > ABYC regulations say that the AC earth should be connected
> > together with the boats bonding- this is a bad
> > idea.The Ac circuits and
> > the DC circuits and bonding should be kept separate. In fact
> > there should also be a Galvanic isolator installed in the
> > AC earth (yellow green wire)Connecting the Ac earth and the
> bonding together
> > is an accident waiting to happen.Connecting the earth to the
> bonding will allow any
> > stray electrical currents to flow from the ac side
> > through the bonding.Where
> > is the isolation transformer installed in the circuit on
> > your boat and how is the earth wire
> > connected?Fair
> > windsEricsm376
> >
> >
> > Fair
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andrew Lamb
> > andrew.lamb@... [amelyachtowners]"
> >
> > Date: Friday, January
> > 30, 2015 1:26 am
> > Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht
> > Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> > To: "amelyachtowners@..."
> >
> >
> > > Dear Gary
> > >
> > > This discussion is
> > very interesting and I am now a lot clearer
> > > about the DC circuits and the bonding, an
> > area I am unclear
> > > about however is the
> > Earth lead on the AC circuit and the
> > >
> > bonding system.
> > >
> > >
> > In our Amel the 100Amp mastervolt was replaced by a
> > Victron
> > > Charger / inverter and an
> > Isolation transformer. As I recall,
> > >
> > the Earth in the boat AC system originates from the Neutral
> > on
> > > the boat side of the isolation
> > transformer. Logic would suggest
> > > to me
> > that the boat metal work should be connected to the boat
> > > AC earth so that the earth leakage circuit
> > breakers will work if
> > > an electrical
> > fault in an AC device rendered the casing of a
> > > device connected to boat AC Live. This
> > maybe particularly
> > > important as many
> > consumer devices do not have an earth wire -
> > > but is this consistent with your
> > statement? This would imply
> > > that in a
> > Charger / inverter that DC –ve should be independent
> > > but that AC Earth and Charge / inverter
> > casing should be
> > > connected to the boat
> > bonding?
> > >
> > >
> > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > Ronpische
> > > SM2k 472
> > > Canet en Roussillion, France
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:
> > amelyachtowners@...
> > >
> > [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of
> > amelliahona
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29,
> > 2015 10:35 PM
> > > To:
> > amelyachtowners@...
> > >
> > Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Mark:
> > >
> > > Regarding a
> > charger/inverter GROUND and GROUNDING (see my prior
> > > email if you are confused on these terms,
> > they are definitely
> > > different). As I
> > understand your question, I think you have it
> > > backwards. Since a charger/inverter
> > isn't in contact with sea
> > > water,
> > both the grounding and ground lines would go to the
> > > battery DC negative (-ve or -) terminal.
> > The AC output side
> > > should be connected
> > via circuit protection including GFCI
> > >
> > (ground fault circuit interrupter) and the DC charging
> > circuits
> > > go to batteries as per the
> > manufacturers directions. It is my
> > >
> > opinion that the BONDING circuit (Amel yellow & green
> > wires)
> > > should NOT be attached to the
> > inverter charger.
> > >
> > >
> > Download the installation manual for anything you are
> > > considering installing and make sure you
> > thoroughly understand
> > > it before
> > buying/installing.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > Gary Silver
> > > s/v
> > Liahona SM 335
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > #yiv9023192123 #yiv9023192123 --
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