Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maramu Survey

Eric Colegrove <ecole2020@...>

I know this stuff probably belongs in another thread.
Let me clarify that a little better.  Boat was listed by owner.  We had already arrived at a preliminary figure, contingent upon inspection, sea trial, survey.  But the owner was dealing with some health issues and later on hired a broker to assist in the sale so he wouldn't have to be around all the time during our dealings.  The broker contacted me to tell me he'd be elping out with the paperwork, escrow, etc.  Then I read part 3 of the above regulation, which states that if a broker or agent is involved, then it is no longer a casual sale.  I told the owner if I read the law correctly, if the broker hands me a pen, the "casual sale" definition is out the window and I'd need to pay sales tax.  When I decreased the offer to account for that, he fired the broker.  I don't know how that went down.  If I had found the boat by a listing the broker placed, (yachtworld, sailboatlistings, etc) then it would not be a casual sale.  If you had to pay Georgia Sales tax, the boat was probably offered by a broker (like most boats), who had to report the sale to Georgia DOR. 
In my case, it was pure luck that the number I called (sailboatlistings ad) was the owner's cell phone.  Had the contact number been a broker's I'd be on the hook for the sales tax.  As it is, I anticipate about $1,300 in ad valorum based on the county where the boat will be kept.  Not sure if that tax is based off where the boat is or my county of residence.  If residence, I believe our millage rate is cheaper here.
Outside of all that crop, the boat is in great shape and I can't wait to sail her back to Georgia.  Mark, my first "big" trip will be sailing from Savannah to Jacksonville (my old sailing grounds) in October for the GA-FLA game.  If all goes well, maybe see you around?

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:44 PM, "Eric Colegrove ecole2020@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  Aware there will be tax, i.e. ad velorum tax.  Same situation with a car.  In Georgia, buy a car casual sale (no dealer), no sales tax due.  Buy from a dealer, must pay sales tax.  It has not always been that way.   Few years back, Georgia tried to figure a way to collect sales tax on private sales.  From memory, it lasted a few years before they changed the law back recently. But you DO get hosed on ad velorum tax when one registers a vessel.  
Here is what my high school buddy, who works for ga dept of revenue said it is just like a car sale:
"As long as it's owned by an individual and not legally owned by a company, it's a casual sale and no sales tax is due.  If legally owned by a company, you would owe use tax (same % as sales tax).  As far as ad valorum,  it would depend on the assessed value (40% of fair market) times your mil rate for that county."
I'm hoping he is right.  I would expect so since he is pretty high up in the ranks.  It is a like/hate friendship with him.  LOL.
Here is what I found most recently:

Rule 560-12-1-.07. Casual Sale

| (1) | Invoking the rule of de minimis and because of the difficulties of administration and enforcement, no sales or use tax liability will be enforced against either the sellers or the purchaser in a casual sale transaction as herein defined, except as hereinafter provided. |

| (2) | A "casual sale transaction" is:
| (a) | A sale in which the tangible personal property involved was not acquired or held by the seller for use in the operation of his business or for resale; or |

| (b) | A sale of tangible personal property acquired or held by the seller for use in the operation of his business (not acquired or held for resale) if the total selling price of such sale and all such sales made during the calendar month of such sale and the preceding eleven calendar months does not exceed $500; or |

| (c) | A sale of tangible personal property acquired or held by the seller for use in the operation of his business (not acquired or held for resale) if such sale is made in a complete and bona fide liquidation of a business of the seller. For purposes of this paragraph the term "business" means a separate place of business subject to registration under the Act; the term "a complete and bona fide liquidation" means the sale of all the assets of such business conducted over a period of time not exceeding thirty days from the date of the first sale of such assets, or a longer time if approved by the Commissioner as a bona fide liquidation. |


| (3) | Notwithstanding any other provision of these regulations, when any seller sells tangible personal property for use or consumption through an agent, broker or other person who is regularly engaged in making sales of tangible personal property, either as a principal or as an agent, then, such a sale will not be deemed a casual sale transaction. |

| (4) | Notwithstanding any other provision of these regulations, if a sale is made by an individual who is employed by or associated with another person who is regularly engaged in the business of selling the same type of tangible personal property involved in such sale, then, such transaction will not be deemed a casual sale transaction and such individual shall register and comply with the obligations and liabilities of a dealer under the Act. |

Seller got ready to employ a broker.  When I found this information and told him my offer just went down by $8,400, he fired the broker and it was a private party "casual" sale.  This is all wonderful information.  When I get the bill, we will find out how it all goes down, right?  LOL>

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:24 PM, "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  Eric,  Congrats and welcome to the group.  Saved $8,400 in sales tax in GA because it is a "casual sale".    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I think you need to revisit the GA sales and use tax. If the boat remains in GA for more than 60 days it will require a state registration. At this time you will need to prove you have paid tax on the vessel to GA or receive credit for tax paid in another US state. It is the USE part of the sales and use tax. The state is 4% plus the county percentage (unless you resided in a state other than GA at the time of the purchase).  We lived in GA when we purchased Cream Puff and could not see a way around the tax. Cream Puff never went to GA. We too did a lot of research and sought professional advice on taxes. If you have any questions, I may be able to help.  Here is the GA explanation of the USE tax:  Watercraft imported into this state are subject to use tax at the rate of the county of delivery or first use. Credit will be granted for sales tax previously paid to another state against any use tax liability that may exist. When a watercraft has been used outside of this state for more than six months, use tax will be due on the purchase price or fair market value, whichever is lower. In addition, no tax is due on watercraft purchased outside of this state by persons not domiciled in this state but who subsequently become domiciled in this state and bring the watercraft into the state as a result of the change of domicile, as long as the watercraft is not brought into the state for use in a trade, business, or profession. Source:  With best regards,  Mark  Super Maramu 2000Hull #275www.creampuff.usCurrently cruising:  Marsh Harbour – Abaco Islands - Bahamas  From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:50 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maramu Survey    Thank you all.  After survey, sea trial, negotiations, we have purchased s/v Deep Purple in Fajardo, PR.  Survey uncovered nothing major.  Bottom was inspected and tested for moisture. No blisters. Rig was inspected from top to bottom on both masts.  Boat has an external Yachtthruster bow thruster.  2008 55 HP Yanmar repower.  Electronics are good.  Interior was spotless.  Transaction all occurred without a broker- private party.  Saved $8,400 in sales tax in GA because it is a "casual sale".  TONS of paperwork, phone calls, faxing, scanning and emailing, etc.  A little bit of a hassle, but I'd do it all again to save that much money.  Anyone considering purchasing w/o broker welcome to ask.  Not as difficult as one might think.  Obviously, CYA (cover your a**) is the order of the day.  I had researched for 5 years and didn't want a buyers broker leading me towards boats I knew I didn't want.  Will sail her back to Georgia late March with crew and delivery captain.  Yes, could keep in beautiful PR instead of salt marsh/ mud water Georgia coast.  But I can't afford a plane ticket every time I want to tinker, and she will probably be safer in Georgia during hurricane season rather than PR.  My photos are not great.  I will upload as soon as I get good ones.   Erics/v Deep Purple (soon to be renamed)1982 Amel Maramu    On Sunday, January 31, 2016 6:22 AM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:    Eric,  You have received lots of good advice.  One more important piece of advice is to let this Group know the hull number, current name, and the location. With this information, you may get a worthwhile report from somebody familiar with the boat.   AND, possibly there is an Amel owner nearby who will inspect the boat with you. In most cases, an Amel owner will be much more valuable than a surveyor not familiar with Amels. I know of several recent pre-purchase inspections which the prospective buyers were accompanied by a current Amel owner...each of these that saved the buyers lots of $$$$'s.  Good luck, and listen to Joel Potter...he knows...period!  Best,  BillBeBe 387Currently Martinique    On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 2:34 AM, Richard Piller richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:  Hi ck the bottom to be sure there are no blisters.  Ck the keel to hull joint. Ck your chain hause pipe and the windlass. All of your standing rigging including at the top of the masts. 

Sent from my iPadRegardsCapt Richard Piller
On Jan 28, 2016, at 15:47, ecole2020@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
  I am new to the forum.  I will be going to see/survey/sea trial a Maramu in 2 days.  I'm about 90% sure I will be an Amel owner by the end of February.  But I'm prepared to walk if it is not what I want.  I hired the surveyor (recommended by local charter company) myself without owner input.  I have seen/crawled around a maramu before.  Boat, from owner's descriptions and from pictures (neither of them EVER lies, right?  :-)), is in good shape, was repowered with Yanmar, has extensive cruising kit (love the British term).  The bottom inspection will be performed after I leave.  Engine oil analysis will also be performed by an outside source. I have a couple questions:  1.  Even though the boat will be hauled and bottom inspected, would it be of any use for me to tote along my mask and snorkel and take an underwater peek myself while I'm there?  Not sure if I'd be abl e to learn anything from that, or not.  2.  Any deal-breaking issues I should pay particular attention to?  from what I have read, Maramu's are like tanks.  This boat is 33 years old and I know there will be significant wear and tear.  Fortunately, it has been used by the owner and not just sat.  I am not worried about cosmetic issues so much.  I'm sure the surveyor will point out things.  I just want to know if there is something that could be missed that could be a real problem down the road.  Thanks   Eric s.v- TBD

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