Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change


Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

A valve there is not for convenience during repairs, although it would be that.

There shouldn’t be any way to empty the fuel tank into the bilge without a positive shut off in case of a broken hose or other disaster. The reason that Amel has a remote operated main fuel valve (and every other well designed boat as well) is so you can positively shut off fuel flow to the engine room in the event of a fire. Having a return line that syphon feeds fuel from the tank to a fire would totally defeat the purpose.

I do not doubt that you had fuel come out of the return line. I would expect it there. My engineering sense is that you saw the fuel in the line draining back, and not coming from the tank. Return lines would be full on the shutdown of the engine(s) and would likely stay that way. Draining back down to the fuel level in the tank through the injection pumps and lift pumps would take a very long time.

I have added a project to my endless list… disconnect the return line from the generator with a full fuel tank and closed main valve and see what happens. I expect to get about a liter of fuel out as the lines drain, and then no more. At least I hope that’s what happens!

On Jun 16, 2016, at 08:38, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello Bill (SM#160),

At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same thing so I share my experience.

Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the “return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups, etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the water in my bilge.

Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.

Wish I could help more…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico




--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM












Alexandre
I am trying to understand what is
going on here… If it really is possible to syphon fuel
out of a half full tank via the return line, then putting a
shut off valve on it would become become a very high
priority safety project for me.
But if the tank is built the
way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to happen
without “magic”, and we are seeing something else
happening.
You describe a “drop by drop”
leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way would
you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral, Florida
On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Good morning Bill (SM
#160),

April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike
Ondra’s post, I reply:

my injectors (engine) were
removed to be check/rebuilt
Somehow fuel was still coming
drop by drop in the bilge compartment.
It did not make any
sense to me as the valve was off.
I realize the fuel
was coming from the “return” valve (which still
doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction or
syphon?)
So I
disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank, the
leak stop.

My tank was may be 1/2 full.

It happened to other people as
well.

One of these things hard to
understand but that you have to keep in mind.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San
Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/15/16,
Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re: Re:
[Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after
fuel filter and oil change
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday,
June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM












I am puzzled…
How can the fuel
“syphon”
back
from the tank through the return line? Amel’s
drawing of the tank
does not show a dip tube (and there
certainly shouldn’t be one!) on
the return fitting on the
top of the tank.
It seems that if the
only way
this
could happen is if the tank is filled so full the level
is up into the fill
line with NO air in the tank at
all.
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort
Canaveral, Florida






On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
wrote:
Dominique:
I just replaced my
electric
priming
pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not have
access at the time
to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did
this. I ended up distorting the
"B-nut" on the
small copper fuel line that goes
from the fuel pump to the
fuel filter adapter and could NOT
get a proper seal upon
replacing this line (a continuous
small seep of fuel that
was really annoying and messy).
I had to order a
replacement line (not that
expensive) and buy a proper set
of flare nut wrenches to
adequately get a seal. I wish I
could remember the size of the
flare nut but it was SAE (not
metric) sized. Make sure the
fuel tank is low on fuel
(think 250 liter will work)
otherwise a continuous stream of
fuel will flow by syphon from the
fuel tank fuel return line
while you make this plumbing
change. I managed to turn
this otherwise simple replacement
into a major project based
on A) not using the proper tools
to loosen and re-install
the B-nut of the fuel line, B)
not have lowered the fuel in
the tank (mine was full at the
time of my work).

Good luck. The pump was
about
$65 as I
recall (not that expensive in the scheme of things)
and the fuel line
was about $8
Sincerely,
Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM
#335 Puerto
Rico











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<p>Hello Bill (SM#160), <br>
<br>
At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same thing so I share my experience. <br>
<br>
Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the “return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups, etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the water in my bilge. <br>
<br>
Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once. <br>
<br>
Wish I could help more… <br>
<br>
Sincerely, Alexandre<br>
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change<br>
To: amelyachtowners@...<br>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Alexandre<br>
I am trying to understand what is<br>
going on here… If it really is possible to syphon fuel<br>
out of a half full tank via the return line, then putting a<br>
shut off valve on it would become become a very high<br>
priority safety project for me.<br>
But if the tank is built the<br>
way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to happen<br>
without “magic”, and we are seeing something else<br>
happening.<br>
You describe a “drop by drop”<br>
leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way would<br>
you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?<br>
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral, Florida<br>
On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,<br>
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...<br>
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...><br>
wrote:<br>
Good morning Bill (SM<br>
#160), <br>
<br>
April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike<br>
Ondra’s post, I reply: <br>
<br>
my injectors (engine) were<br>
removed to be check/rebuilt<br>
Somehow fuel was still coming<br>
drop by drop in the bilge compartment. <br>
It did not make any<br>
sense to me as the valve was off. <br>
I realize the fuel<br>
was coming from the “return” valve (which still<br>
doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction or<br>
syphon?)<br>
So I<br>
disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank, the<br>
leak stop. <br>
<br>
My tank was may be 1/2 full. <br>
<br>
It happened to other people as<br>
well. <br>
<br>
One of these things hard to<br>
understand but that you have to keep in mind. <br>
<br>
Sincerely, Alexandre<br>
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>
Club Nautico de San<br>
Juan, Puerto Rico<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Wed, 6/15/16,<br>
Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]<br>
<amelyachtowners@...><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: Re:<br>
[Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after<br>
fuel filter and oil change<br>
To: amelyachtowners@...<br>
Date: Wednesday,<br>
June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am puzzled… <br>
How can the fuel<br>
“syphon”<br>
back<br>
from the tank through the return line? Amel’s<br>
drawing of the tank<br>
does not show a dip tube (and there<br>
certainly shouldn’t be one!) on<br>
the return fitting on the<br>
top of the tank. <br>
It seems that if the<br>
only way<br>
this<br>
could happen is if the tank is filled so full the level<br>
is up into the fill<br>
line with NO air in the tank at<br>
all.<br>
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort<br>
Canaveral, Florida<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,<br>
amelliahona <no_reply@...><br>
wrote:<br>
Dominique:<br>
I just replaced my<br>
electric<br>
priming<br>
pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not have<br>
access at the time<br>
to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did<br>
this. I ended up distorting the<br>
"B-nut" on the<br>
small copper fuel line that goes<br>
from the fuel pump to the<br>
fuel filter adapter and could NOT<br>
get a proper seal upon<br>
replacing this line (a continuous<br>
small seep of fuel that<br>
was really annoying and messy).<br>
I had to order a<br>
replacement line (not that<br>
expensive) and buy a proper set<br>
of flare nut wrenches to<br>
adequately get a seal. I wish I<br>
could remember the size of the<br>
flare nut but it was SAE (not<br>
metric) sized. Make sure the<br>
fuel tank is low on fuel<br>
(think 250 liter will work)<br>
otherwise a continuous stream of<br>
fuel will flow by syphon from the<br>
fuel tank fuel return line<br>
while you make this plumbing<br>
change. I managed to turn<br>
this otherwise simple replacement<br>
into a major project based<br>
on A) not using the proper tools<br>
to loosen and re-install<br>
the B-nut of the fuel line, B)<br>
not have lowered the fuel in<br>
the tank (mine was full at the<br>
time of my work).<br>
<br>
Good luck. The pump was<br>
about<br>
$65 as I<br>
recall (not that expensive in the scheme of things)<br>
and the fuel line<br>
was about $8<br>
Sincerely, <br>
Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM<br>
#335 Puerto<br>
Rico <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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