Also check the winch motors.


eric freedman
 

I forgot to mention that while you are up looking at the winch motors. See if the motor moves when actuated. The motors on Kimberlite had the bolts holding them on to the winch break making a mess of the winch motors.

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 12:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] the circuit breaker locations to turn off the primary winches.

 

 

I am doing this from memory,

As I am not on the boat at the moment.

 

There are two separate circuits that control the Electric winches.

One is powered by the DC panel which operates the solenoids that close the high amperage solenoid in the windlass control box. This solenoid is operated by either the switch mounted next to the helm or the coaming push button. The power for this comes from the DC panel in the galley. Lower right hand button I believe the middle one.

 

 

There is a large circuit breaker mounted above the midships bunk ceiling that controls the Starboard winch power ( and a circuit breaker for the dinghy inflator in the stern lazarette) .

 

The circuit breaker for the Port winch is mounted on the electrical panel on the forward engine room bulkhead it is above the fresh water pump and the AC water pump. On this panel are also mounted the toilet pump breakers, The bilge pump breaker, the anchor wash breaker, and some other breakers for optional equipment.

 

If you turn off these big breakers your Winches should not work. Next to these breaker panels are also mounted the Lewmar control boxes clearly marked LEWMAR.

 

Fair Winds’

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

There must be a circuit breaker in the circuit that carries the 50 + amps to the motor. A simple low amperage solenoid will not do the job. There is also a thermal overload mounted to the motors. I encountered this when I tried hauling the Drogue in after our hurricane. It takes a few minutes for the overload to cool off and allow the winch to operate again.  There has to be a circuit breaker that will turn off the power to the primary winches otherwise there is a fire hazard.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 11:15 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Port Jib Sheet Winch Malfunction

 

 

Kent,

 

You have a mystery of the universe!  I don’t have a good answer, but I’ll rattle off some random thoughts that might tickle somebody’s brain to come up with a better idea...

 

The circuit that powers the winch motor and the circuit that closes the relays are not interconnected in any way, so any kind of cross talk between them seems very unlikely.

 

I assume that BOTH winch switches (the one mounted on the cockpit coaming and at the helm panel) both actuate the winch even when the breaker is off?

 

Although on my boat that circuit breaker is labeled “Winches”,  it is actually the circuit for all of the relay coils on the boat.  Winches, furling motors, and windlass.  Have you checked any of these others to see if they also operate when the breaker is off?  They should not.

 

A few places to look…  On my electrical panel there are four wires common crimped into two terminals* on the winch circuit breaker.  The power is distributed on that panel by an uninsulated braided conductor.  It is possible that this braid could have been pushed around and is shorted across the breaker--although I’d expect that to work ALL of the winches…

 

If there is 24 volts present in the port side winch circuit and NOT the other circuits, then it must be wired (intentionally or otherwise) to some other supply point.  Even if it was being supplied by a short circuit somewhere, all of the winch circuits would be supplied by the common connection point at the breaker.

 

My best guess:  A connection has come adrift at the back of the panel and is touching the supply wiring…  or someone has rewired it in a “creative” way.  Neither seem likely, but it is an unlikely problem, so the solution is probably unlikely too!

 

I can’t wait to hear the real answer!

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Highlands, NJ

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

* Multiple wires into one terminal? Why did Amel do this? Why is this better than a terminal block?? On my boat the record is for 18, yes 18!, ground wires crimped into one terminal.  Argh! A real nightmare when you have to replace ONE circuit.

 

 

 

 

On Aug 2, 2016, at 10:19, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Bill.  Not that I know of.  But this may not be a new problem.  I may have just discovered something that has been this way since I bought the boat.

So if there is a single relay for the port winch motor, and the switches (control panel and coaming button) activate that relay, with the power to the switch off, it shouldn't work.  Perhaps the galley breaker powers the relays (+), and the switches make contact on the negative side of the circuit.  Then if the breaker is stuck in the closed (on) position, the switch would still close the circuit to the relay and activate the motor.

I'm no electrician either, but that's the only way I can see that would result in what's happening.
Anyone else want to chime in here?

Thanks again

Kent

SM243

Kristy



On Aug 2, 2016, at 9:14 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Tom,

 

The breaker on the control panel does two things, it shuts off power to the control circuit, i.e.: the cockpit switches and relay coils.  As you say, that prevents accidental operation of the winches.   That breaker also provides circuit overload protection for that part of the system.

 

It would be impossible to protect the power side of the system (which draws >50 amps) with the same breaker that protects the control side (something like 1 or 2 amps)

 

Now having said that… and having gone back and re-read Kent’s original post…  I have to say I do not understand his problem either.  There is no other relay in the circuit that would explain his problem. Sounds like the port side control wire bypasses the circuit breaker—somehow!  Strange…

 

Kent, do you know if anybody has done any re-wiing of that system in the past?

 

 

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Highlands, NJ

“Ships and men rot in port."

 

 

 

 

On Aug 2, 2016, at 08:59, peacock@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bill,

As I said, I'm no electrician...

You are correct. That said, I guess I don't really understand Kent's problem. If the relay were stuck in the on position, then it should be on all the time, assuming he hasn't turned the breaker on the winch off? Or are there two relays in the circuit? As I now understand it (which may or may not be correct), all that the 24 breaker controls is the power to the cockpit switches. The only purpose in turning that breaker off is to prevent someone's hand resting on a switch and activating the winch (or windlass, etc). N'est-ce pa? Please educate me if that's wrong. Thanks. 

 

Tom Peacock

SM Aletes 240

Rock Hall, MD

 

 

 

 

 

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