Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions


Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Wow ! Impressive explanation! Always learning!

As always THANKS Joel for your input!

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3/10/17, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@att.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted questions
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 10, 2017, 8:05 AM


 









I will answer in caps for
clarity  From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 7:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Gel Coat
Cracks adjacent to the backstays & other assorted
questions    At the transom/hull joint on
both sides the gel coat is cracked from top to bottom.
 While we're in a boatyard I'm thinking of doing a
repair, so I'm soliciting suggestions on the repair
method. THE
REASON THE GEL COAT WILL CRACK IN THIS AREA ON ALL SUPER
MARAMUS IS SIMPLE. THE ACTUAL TRANSON ITSELF IS A SEPARATE
MOLDING FROM THE REST OF THE ONE PIECE HULL. THE TRANSOM IS
INSTALLED AFTER THE OTHERWISE COMPLETED HULL AND DECK
ASSEMBLY HAVE BEEN LAMINATED TOGETHER INTO ONE PIECE AND
REMOVED FROM THE MOLD. THE TRANSOM IS MOUNTED THEN LAMINATED
TO THE AFTER ENDS OF THE HULL AND DECK. AMEL DOES NOT DO
EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY. IN THIS CASE, AFTER THE
TRANSOM IS LAMINATED AND CURED, GEL COAT IS APPLIED TO THE
AREA WHERE THE EXTERIOR OF THE TRANSOM JOIN IS. AMEL SIMPLY
USED TOO THICK/TOO MUCH GEL COAT IN THIS AREA TO “FAIR AND
FLUSH FIT” THE EDGES OF THE TRANSOM. IN A MORE PERFECT
APPROACH, AN APPROVED FAIRING COMPOUND SHOULD BE USED, AND
THEN THE PROPER THICKNESS, ABOUT 20 MILS, OF GEL COAT,
SHOULD BE APPLIED.THE REASON THE GEL COAT CRACKS IS
BECAUSE IT IS VERY BRITTLE. WHEN APPLIED TOO THICKLY, IT
EXACERBATES THE TENDANCY TO CRACK AS IT BECOMES EVEN MORE
BRITTLE THE THICKER THE FINISHED GEL COAT SKIN
BECOMES.THE CRACKS BEGIN WHERE THE MIZZEN
BACKSTAYS ARE ATTACHED AS THIS IS A POINT LOADED AREA WHICH
ENCOURAGES THESE TYPES OF CRACKS. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE
LAMINATE IN THIS AREA WHERE THE CRACKS APPEAR DAMAGED IN ANY
WAY BY THE MOUNTING OF THE MIZZEN BACKSTAYS THERE.  I HAVE
SEEN IT SEVERLY DAMAGED BY THE MOUNTING OF DAVITS,
SOLAR/RADAR ARCHES, AND POST MOUNTED WIND GENERATORS WITHOUT
PROPER REINFORCEMENT TO THE INSIDE OF THE
TRANSOM.IT IS EASY TO CHECK THE LAMINATE IN
THIS AREA FOR DAMAGE. AT NIGHT, TAKE A POWERFUL SEACHLAMP
AND HAVE A HELPER SHINE IT CLOSE TO BUT NOT TOUCHING ON THE
EXTERIOR OF THE TRANSOM-HULL JOIN WHILE YOU CLIMB INSIDE A
HOPEFULLY LESS THAN FULL STERN LOCKER. THE BRIGHT AND
POWERFUL LIGHT WILL ILLUMINATE THE LAMINATE JUST LIKE AN
X-RAY AS AMEL DID NOT APPLY ANY GEL COAT TO THE INSIDE OF
THE TRANSOM. IF THE LAMINATE IS DAMAGED, IT WILL APPEAR TO
HAVE MOVED AS INDEED THAT IS WHAT IT DOES WHEN IT FAILS.
HAVE A REAL EXPERT TAKE A LOOK IF YOU ARE NOT SURE.  COST
CUTTING? NOT AT ALL. THEY DIDN’T APPLY GEL COAT TO MAKE
THIS PANEL MORE TRANSLUCENT ALLOWING MORE LIGHT INTO AN AREA
WHICH WOULD BE OTHERWISE QUITE DARK. ALWAYS THINKING, THESE
AMEL PEOPLE! PLEASE, DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS BY YOURSELF BY
PLACING THE SEARCHLAMP DIRECTLY ON THE TRANSOM THEN CRAWLING
INSIDE AS YOU WILL SEE THE LAMINATE FAIL RIGHT BEFORE YOUR
EYES BECAUSE POLYESTER RESIN STARTS TO FAIL/CRYSTALIZE AT
175F AND WILL CATCH ON FIRE AS IT GASSES WITH THE
APPLICATION OF EXCESSIVE HEAT. TRUST ME. DON’T DO IT
ALONE.
   I've read here that these
cracks happen on most SM's, and looking from inside the
lazaret, it appears they are in the gel coat only.  I am a
bit concerned that these cracks were not reported on the
2015 pre-purchase Survey in any form, as if they weren't
there then.  I think they were there then, but don't
know if they have gotten worse.
DUANE, DESPITE THE DIFFICULTIES YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED WITH
YOUR BOAT, THE PREVIUOS OWNER WAS A STICKLER FOR SYSTEMS
MAINTENANCE AND COSMETIC UPKEEP. SINCE WE WERE GOING TO USE
THE BOAT AS OUR SHOWBOAT IN THE MIAMI BOAT SHOW, I HAD THE
CRACKS REPAIRED AS THIS COSMETIC ROUTINE WAS NOT HIDING
ANYTHING THAT WAS WRONG WITH THE LAMINATE. THE GEL COAT GUY
WAS EXPERIENCED. I TOLD HIM TO REALLY SAND DOWN THE OLD GEL
COAT IN HOPES THE NEW GEL COAT WOULD NOT BE TOO THICK AND
PRONE TO CRACKS. THERE WERE NO CRACKS THERE WHEN YOU AND PEG
BOUGHT YOUR BOAT, YOU DIDN’T MISS ANYTHING. HE JUST PUT ON
TOO MUCH GEL COAT. AGAIN.  The
fiberglass repairman working on the boat (collision damage)
suggested "radical surgery" including grinding off
the gel coat over a wide area on both sides of the crack,
adding fiberglass and then new gel coat.  His opinion was
if he just repaired the gel coat it would only crack again.
 Then he pointed out several areas where the gel coat had
been "touched up" to hide the crack, only to
subsequently crack in the same place. MY EARS PERK UP AND MY THINKING CAP
GETS PULLED ON TIGHT WHEN ANYONE SAYS ‘RADICAL’.   IF
HE SUGGESTED ADDING FIBERGLASS AFTER GRINDING OFF THE GEL
COAT, TO THE OUTSIDE, THAT WOULD BE A LESS THAN SATISFACTORY
REPAIR. ADD STRUCTURAL FIBERGLASS TO THE INSIDE OF THE
TRAMSOM WHERE A BETTER OVERLAP/MORE STRENGTH CAN BE
ACHIEVED. THIS IS ESSENTIAL IF ADDING THE AFOREMENTIONED
EQUIPMENT .  I can see there is some
water intrusion on the stbd side at the crack.  I'm
thinking of filling it with Marine-Tex. I don't want to
damage the structural laminates below, so any grinding/prep
would be limitied to opening the gel coat crack to 1/8"
or so.   <<<Any thoughts about
that?>>>IN MY
EXPERIENCES WITH THIS CHALLENGE, I HAVE FOUND THAT SANDING
THE GEL COAT OFF, CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY SO AS NOT TO CHEW
INTO STRUCTURAL LAMINATE, FOLLOWED BY PROPER APPLICATION OF
A COMPATABLE PRIMER FOLLOWED BY POLYUREATHANE PAINT WITH AN
ELASTOMER ADDITIVE MAKING IT VERY RESISTANT TO SURFACE
CRACKS WORKS NICELY AND LASTS A LONG TIME AS IT DOES NOT
OXIDIZE AS MUCH AS GEL COAT. THE ONLT NEGATIVE PAINT HAS TO
GEL COAT IN THIS APPLICATION IS THAT GEL COAT CAN BE SANDED
IF SCRATHED, PAINT COMES OFF AND MUST BE REPAINTED. THE
PERFECT TIME TO DO THIS ALMOST PERMANENT REPAIR IS WHEN A
NEW OWNER BUYS THE BOAT AND RENAMES IT. IF THE PREVIUOS NAME
ON THE TRANSOM HAS BEEN THERE FOR YEARS, IT WILL BE PRETTY
HARD TO ELIMINATE THE GHOSTING THAT THE AREA UNDER WHERE THE
OLD NAME WAS. PAINTING THE ENTIRE TRANSOM KILLS TWO BIRDS
WITH ONE STONE.    I'll take some
photos after the sun comes up.    I'm up
early with sore muscles/joints after buffing and polishing
the boat the last three days, and I'm only half done!
 The red gel coat on the rubrail was terribly oxidized, but
I've been able to get it back to "pretty good"
with some aggressive rubbing compound and then a polishing
compound.  The bootstripe also got the same treatment and
looks great now.  I used the polishing compound on the
white gelcoat and that seemed to even out the color.  I
just started waxing! yesterday afternoon.  I've used
the Collinite Fleetwax before and it would last a year on a
freshwater lake.  I'll see how it goes in saltwater.
 <<<Does anyone have a favorite wax that makes
removing the diesel soot smudge easier?>>> DUANE, THAT’S WHAT HIGH SCHOOL DROP
OUT BOATYARD WORKERS ARE FOR. I WONT ARM WRESTLE YOU FOR A
FEW WEEKS…  One of the yard workers
recommended "Marykate On&Off Hull&Bottom
Cleaner" for the scum line.  It says it also removes
the diesel soot smudge.  I have had trouble removing that
smudge with ANY cleaner.  Last time I worked on that in the
water I had to use a rubbing compound by hand.
 <<<<Any recommendations on a
product?>>>>THAT
STUFF REALLY WORKS. SOME GEL COAT SUPPLIERS RECOMMEND
AGAINST USING IT. DON’T HAVE DEFINITVE ANSWER FOR YOU.
 Thanks,
MY PLEASUREDuane       
JOELWanderer, SM#477









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