Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

Alexandre Uster von Baar

In my case, in Nassau (and once I am done with all that, I will write down everything), the opposite insurance of the powerboat that lost control hit my bow (no damage at this point), then “panic” and put tingfull reverse and that is what created the damages, so that insurance was Pantaenius.

Pantaenius told my insurance (De Lassee/Helvetia) that my boat was “longer” than the slip and only accepted 50% responsibility and ask me what was my opinion?!?
I replied I did not know, that as far as i am concerned was not at fault, so I (kind of) hired a legal (cost me diner) that said: “no the fact that the dock is not as long as the vessel doesn’t have anything to do, not a valid argument” so I replied that to my insurance.

Then Pantaenius came back and said: “as you said there was wind a current, so our customer is not at fault and we only accept 50% responsibility” - again Lassee/Helvetia ask my opinion.
Here again, I don’t know what to reply, as far as I am concerned not my fault. But again cost me another diner to get legal opinion. So in this case: “Wind and Current” could be a factor “IF” they were strong enough, like in the case of a tropical storm, but certainly not in that accident, so I replied that to my insurance.
At that point, I am questioning DeLassee/Helvetia don’t they know these things??? Why even asking me the question, like if I was at fault.
I could go on details where DeLassee told me: “We told you not to be in the US waters”.
First I was paying 30% more premium to sail in US water - but as I reminded Mr Geofrrey DeLasse, The Bahamas, are NOT part of the US water, it is a former British Colonie independent for 40 years (he never replied to that).

Then I could go on and on how difficult it was in Nassau to get quote for stainless, fiberglass, electrical, rigging, nobody wanted to accept responsibility if things did not fit, etc. took me 2 months… (out of these 2 months I spend 80 hours on that).

Then was Florida, I finally got a quote, the insurance said it was too expensive, took the 3 months to get another one (same price), then the insurance agreed I was not at fault, but it was not worth for the to hire a lawyer because of the small amount ($20.000).

So after 2 months in Nassau and 5 month in Florida, I gave up.
Then as I said, I got reimbursed $7000 and am still waiting for $3000, I signed many documents and every month I remind them, they acknowledge, etc.


On Thu, 11/30/17, Ron Hynes riffhynes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, November 30, 2017, 11:16 AM


Some years ago
after the horrendous hurricane seasons of 2005-6 in Florida
and elsewhere, discovery during a lawsuit involving a major
insurer uncovered a voluminous report from one of the major
management consulting firms (Peat, Marwick...if memory
serves), that essentially recommended, “deny, deny,
deny” as a successful tactic to minimize loses. This same
report, almost verbatim, was disclosed in another lawsuit
with another major insurer later in the year. Sad but never know how good (or bad) your insurer is
until you need it!
had Pantaenius for a couple of years and had my first claim
in more than 40 years of boating resolved painlessly to my
satisfaction. Of course, they might drop me on renewal and I
won’t be surprised. 
Similar to Alex, I was rammed in a
marina in Norfolk about 15 years ago. The vessel causing the
accident was insured by a company whose major business was
insuring motorcycles. After months of negotiating and
justifying my damages, my insurer stepped up and made me
whole. They went to litigation over the incident and I never
learned how it was settled, but my insurer dropped me under
the pretense that I had placed my vessel in a vulnerable
location in the marina.  Against tide and wind.  After
striking me, he t-boned a ninety footer on the opposite side
of the marina. I always wondered if his insurer though he
was also in a vulnerable location!

On Nov 22,
2017, at 3:56 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>


Hello Pat,

In Nassau, my insurance (Helvetia) agreed I was at zero
fault, but since the opposite insurance (Pantaenius) only
accepted 50% responsibility, Helvetia said it is not worth
the expense to hire a lawyer… (of course, not their

We argued for 8 months until I gave up and accepted 50%

Repair work had not started that my insurance went up 15%…
(because I have a claim now).

Also every time I got a quote, Helvetia said it was too
expensive, that I had to look for a new one, etc. that took
7 months (2 months in Nassau) and 5 months in Florida.

It took them 3 months to find someone who charged almost the
same amount, but had to go up the river, etc. I end up
paying the guy myself.

Then 3.5 years later, I was paid $7000 am still being own

I have heard good reviews for Pantaenius and was considering
to change.

I caution everyone who subscribe their insurance through De
Lassee or using Helvetia to rethink their policy.

Rafael is also insured with Helvetia, I urge him to hire a
lawyer, because they started doing the same thing with him.

Sincerely, Alexandre.


On Wed, 11/22/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 7:01 AM


Alex, I

had forgotten it was your boat that was hit in Nassau ,

remember how long that took to to resolve , if it was

resolved. You have had more than your share of damage

hassles with insurance/repairs . I have Pantaenius and

without a question , they replaced every piece of

electronics on my boat ($58,000) total , all new and

equipment , with no cost to me. So I can't bring

pressure , but if you are not treated fairly , I would

owners insured with your company  to cancel their

and sight your treatment for their cancellation . 

Stay Strong,


SM Shenanigans



From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners


Sent: Wed, Nov 22, 2017 6:48 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover


Thanks Pat.

I hope the cover will be ok, may be because it was in a

compartment where water was not exposed to the sun (so

growth). Otherwise it is sad to see the growth slowly

taking over…

Based on my experience 3.5 years ago in Nassau (a boat

control and damaged my bow pulpit) (and my insurance

I was at zero fault) I knew it would be a fight.

They are also doing the exact same thing with Rafael, I

write all about it.

Anyway, have a great day.

Sincerely, Alexandre


On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>


Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 4:01 PM



Keep me posted on the cover , being in water should not


hurt it much. Sorry your insurance co. is making things

worse for you , as though lack of maintenance would

been a contributing factor in face of 200 mile winds. 

Good Luck,




From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners


Sent: Tue, Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover


Hello Pat,

Been so busy I haven’t read many of the forum message


the last 9 days.

But just read this one out of the blue.

I don’t think I removed it from the vessel.

I think know where it is (in the life raft storage).

Once the vessel is raised (2 weeks?) I will remove it


see if it is ok.

But I did save the cockpit extension.

General information, as it might take me another week

have time to read the forum message. So if meanwhile

need to contact me, please email me directly to uster@...

I just spent 55 hours searching and organizing all the

invoices I could found on the maintenance I did for the


5 years.

My lawyers are pretty happy with the work (I don’t


the insurance will be).

I still have a lot to do this week.

Then will be back making the inventory.

When things calm down, I will give a full detail report


the forum.

Many of you will be VERY surprised and people insured

through De Lassee should search for other insurances.

Sincerely, Alexandre


On Tue, 11/21/17, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@...

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>


Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Helm cover

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Tuesday, November 21, 2017, 2:53 PM


Alex, Do

you have the vinyl helm cover for sale. My wife threw


away a couple years ago, can't tell you why ,


can she. I was hoping to find one to borrow and use as


template. I hope things are getting much better for

,you've been thru Hell .



SM Shenanigans

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