Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Perkins M 4 .154 engine repairs, rescheduling trip


James Alton
 

Christian Alby,

I am glad to hear that old faithful is still running and that you appear to have found a replacement oil pump.

According to the serial number of my engine, (GA 10002 J 002298 N) it was produced in Japan. The “J” at the center of my S/N designates the engine as having been produced in Japan and a “U” would indicate UK) Was your engine also produced in Japan? Apparently most of the Perkins 4.154’s were built in Japan and the rest were built in the UK. I found one statement that the parts for the Japan and the UK version were not interchangeable which appears to make replacement parts more difficult to source so I am still trying to get to the bottom of this. The part number that you have for the replacement oil pump begins with “NA” which apparently refers to a Perkins meeting some North American standards relating to noise and emissions. I am working on trying to get a list of part numbers from Perkins for my engine based on the serial number.

In my research I also noted that while the full throttle oil pressure specification is 30 to 60 PSI or about 2-4 bar, that the pressure relief valve is apparently supposed to open at 43 psi or about 3 bar. So it would seem that 3 bar or 43 psi would be considered the normal high pressure.

Best of luck and let me know if the oil pump that you located works out for you. I have not received any response from Prevalent on the two pumps that I added to my cart and went through the checkout process.

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 28, 2018, at 7:36 AM, christian alby calbyy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi there James

The P/N shown on the perkins parts catalog is NA900087.
The pump itself did not have legible markings, described as
Rotor pump (inner 4 rotors, outer 5 rotors)
Pressure 2.1 to 4.2 kgf/cm2
Shaft OD 15.82 mm
No other information

I seem to have completed one purchase order via ezone-saint lucia. Waiting for confirmationI am now running engine charging batteries, after oil change & additive mixed, & results are identical to previous.
Runs at 1200 rpm at 1,8 bars
Idle at 700 at 1,2 bars
This is after 4 hours running non stop (water temp 70°)
No Volvo for me yet, will go back sailing & keep on runing old faithful.

Fair wind
Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 -le Marin Martinique



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Le jeu., janv. 25, 2018 à 22:24, James Alton lokiyawl2@... <mailto:lokiyawl2@...> [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :

Christian Alby,


Do you know the exact P/N for the original oil pump in your Perkins engine?

Ebay shows that the pump listed by tacomadiesel 1969 was sold Jan. 24th at 10:41 AM for $60 USD.

James

SV Sueño
Maramu #220



On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:53 AM, christian alby calbyy@... <mailto:calbyy@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:

Hi there James,

Pump shown on ebay from tacomadiesel 1969 is similar to previous pumps P/N 41314114.
Worth a try if not sold already.
I am still trying the Prevalent supply via www.getezone-saint lucia; new to the game there I am still chasing them to know if transaction is valid or missing some hidden step.
Will let you know
Fair winds
Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - le Marin Martinique

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Le jeu., janv.. 25, 2018 à 12:53, James Alton lokiyawl2@... <mailto:lokiyawl2@...> [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :

Christian Alby,


This link should show you the details and a photo of the oil pump that sold yesterday on Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Perkins-Oil-Pump-/162047206348?epid=1666806067&hash=item25bac423cc%3Ag%3AERQAAOSwPc9W1hX7&nma=true&si=W3eCbTcEMLa7SbrtDwkjy5OzDVc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 If this link does not work let me know. Please let me know if the photo looks like the correct pump to you. The seller had a 100% rating so I believe that this was a valid transaction and a lucky find, sorry that we missed it.

I have not heard anything back from Prevalent from my email inquiries and my attempt to purchase the two pumps. Checking into the website, though the company checks out through Google transparency, I think that it is very unlikely that they have any actual pumps in stock ever. If I hear back otherwise I will attempt to complete the purchase for two pumps. I will set up an alert on Ebay in case any additional used or new pumps show up. It would be helpful if you can help insure that the part #41314114 is indeed the correct pump if at all possible.

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:59 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... <mailto:lokiyawl2@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:

Christian Alby,


I just saw your email. The pump on Ebay has been sold, bad timing there. I have placed an order for two pumps thru Prevalent but have not yet received a confirmation either in my browser or via email so not sure yet of what is wrong. No need to pay for my pump, but thank you for that. I just hope that this company actually has stock and that these are the correct pumps for our engines. I will update you when I have more information.

Best,

James
Maramu #220

On Jan 24, 2018, at 11:30 AM, christian alby calbyy@... <mailto:calbyy@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:


hi there James

tried the eBay code but Zero results reply .... lost
tried purchase from Prévalent-first but cannot complete registration ...
tried to purchase via getezone site ... no reply yet

As I do not want to lose one of those pumps I would ask you to purchase both & sell back one to me, I will pay for both - bank transfer to your account - and arrange with you for shipment of one to me in Martinique. Soon as mounted I will confirm if OK & then you can reimburse the one you chose.

Your help is really appreciated there

fair winds

christian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Le Marin Martinique



‎23‎ ‎janvier‎ ‎2018‎ ‎17‎:‎00‎:‎25‎ ‎-04, James Alton lokiyawl2@... <mailto:lokiyawl2@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :



Christian Alby,


Can you verify if the correct Perkins part number for the oil pump you need is #41314114? If so then I may have found two sources for new surplus oil pumps. One is located on the website at: https://www.prevalent-first.top/perkins-4-154-oil-pump-41314114-cf-bedford-marine-engine-p-5822.html. I am thinking ordering one for myself as a spare if this information looks correct to you..

The other pump is located on Ebay, item #162047206348. The Ebay ad shows part #41314114 and says that this pump fits the 4.154.

Fingers crossed that this helps.. I also have some inquiries in for a used pump.

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

162047206348

On Jan 23, 2018, at 3:06 PM, christian alby calbyy@... <mailto:calbyy@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:

James

Thanks for assistance
I do not remember the way the gear is fixed but will try to see from pictures taken.
The non-marine version -perkins made, not the kubota look alike - has the same oil pump.
Fair wind
Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique


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Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 15:33, James Alton lokiyawl2@... <mailto:lokiyawl2@...> [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :

Christian Alby,


I have been keeping my eye out for a replacement pump for you but so far no luck.. I think that you are correct that the worn pump is at least part of what is causing the lower than normal oil pressure.. The sudden drop of oil pressure to 0 when you reach 2000 RPM is very strange and I have been pondering a possible cause. It makes me think that somehow the pump gear has sopped stopped turning. Did you notice if any of the gears on your oil pump are pinned to the shaft? I have seen some oil pumps secured with pins but am not sure about the Perkins 4..154, hence this is just an educated guess. If one of these pins were to shear from the engine runaway and lack of lubrication which you said occurred when the engine failed, you might still have enough friction present to drive the pump gear at low engine speeds but it could then begin to slip. Replacement of that pin (if it exists) might solve the problem with the sudden loss of oil pressure. Please let me know if you someday figure out what is the actual cause of this sudden loss of oil pressure. I will post here if I am able to find another pump. Can you tell me from your research if the non-marine version of the 4-154 has the same oil pump as your engine?

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 23, 2018, at 8:15 AM, christian alby calbyy@... <mailto:calbyy@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:

Miles,

The voice of Volvo D2/55 la 3 fold
Available immediatly in Martinique.
Do not want a turbo on my marine engine, useless & more prone to failures.
Recent model , widely spread, will find parts for a while.

Against volvo
Tied up with agents for service & parts.
Price ...

I still might give up on replacement here in martinique & keep on looking for an oil pump to do repairs, then sail to better deal location.

Note : old faithful M 4.154 is still reliable & so easy to run & maintain. Regrets

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in le Marin Martinique.





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Le mar., janv. 23, 2018 à 8:37, smiles bernard smilesbernard@... <mailto:smilesbernard@...> [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :

Hi there Christian

As a fellow maramu owner with an older engine I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Volvo D2/55 as a replacement vs other alternatives..

Size, simplicity, cost etc? What led you to choose the Volvo?

Many thanks and best wishes

Miles

Sent from my iPhone

On 21 Jan 2018, at 14:29, christian alby calbyy@... <mailto:calbyy@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> wrote:



Thanks for concern & assistance Bill
guess all the advice & analysis of fault helped me come to the conclusion (already uderstood & applied before) that there is no shortcut when repairing engines or sailing boats.
Oil pump is at fault - 100% sure
camshaft is unllikely eve though showing some wear on,poppets.

I am now in Le Marin, waiting for a firm quote on one Volvo D2/55 available for fit up ... on solution even though unplanned this year;
I am also looking for one Perkins Oil pump ..... could replace in situ at no great cost & would postpone replacement by new engine to 2019
or back to Europ in April & do a change over of engines with Perkins or else .... Selling back my 'Old Faithful'

fair winds
chrsitian alby - Désirade VIII - Maramu 116 - Le Marin Martinique



Le ‎dimanche‎ ‎31‎ ‎décembre‎ ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎53‎:‎11‎ ‎-04, greatketch@... <mailto:greatketch@...> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :





Christian,

I am afraid I have no good ideas that match your symptoms! Since you have both the gauge and alarm reporting low pressure, I have to assume it is real and not a problem with the measurement.

Sometimes low oil level can cause low pressure at high rpm as the pump sucks so much oil out of the crankcase it sucks air, but you checked that.

A stuck open pressure relief valve that resets itself when the engine shuts down could be an an issue, but that seems unlikely.

Maybe someone else has an idea or two... in any event do let us know what the solution turns out to be!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Key West, FL



---In amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>, <calbyy@....> wrote :

Here is

Yes - oil pressure gauge and l'os pressure alarme on
When oil pressure below 1 bar, alarme nées
Oil pressure drops quickly at 2000 rpm
Oil pressure remains stable when low or normal
Oil pressure remains low when reducing speed from 2000

No loss of oil single de started.
Ran 1hour maneuvring in port at 1300 rpm at 2 bars, went To idle after 1 hour at 700 rpm with 1.1 bar oil pressure.
Did not risk acceleration.

Thks for assiste

Christian alby - Desirade VIII - Maramu 116 - now in Mindelo Carbo Verde



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Le dim., déc. 31, 2017 à 14:58, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups..com <mailto:amelyachtowners@...>> a écrit :

Losing oil pressure at high RPM and having it come back at low RPM is a bit of a puzzle to me. There are ways it can happen, but they are a bit exotic


Do you have an oil pressure gauge AND an low oil pressure alarm?
If so, is the gauge showing low pressure AND you get an alarm?
Does the oil pressure drop quickly at 2000RPM or does it drift down slowly?
Is it stable, or does it bounce around?
Does it come back quickly when you reduce the RPM, or does it stay low?




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