Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Insurance. Does it deliver

hanspeter baettig

Dear Mr.  Baileys and Danny
I don't like that you use this forum as an add and marketing platform. Insurance are different by countries. 
Mr. Baileys; you mentioned that we need an avocate at claim? My question ? who is paying the avocate ?
Looking forward that this platform remains as a technical exchange platform 
PS: there are lots of other social platforms to share individuels needs.
Tamango 2
SM16; Las Palmas

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 19.02.2018 um 20:49 schrieb Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:


Hi All,

I received a personal email asking the name of the insurance company that disappointed us. It was Haven Knox Johnson, a Lloyds of London Company. The broker was The Marina Shop of Opua NZ and the Assessor was Steve Lott of New Zealand.

We have a new Broker, Baileys Insurance brokers of Auckland NZ, and a new insurer recommended by them. QBE Marine insurers. Steve Bailey the principal of the company is a sailor himself. As always until you have a claim you don't know the quality of the insurer and we have yet to have a claim under this cover.(and hope we never will) However we have confidence in our broker.



SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 February 2018 at 07:24 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:



Hi all,

Further to my below, no one said no so I copy here an email from my new broker sent after he read some of the posts.


SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Hi all,

I’ve been reading some of the comments posted by many of you about pleasure craft insurance policies.

I feel very sorry for you, and agreed it is not a good situation at all – but it shouldn’t be that way, and sounds like you’ve not been getting the right advice or support here.  We always use “agreed value” policies and they have worked for us and our clients as they should, many, many times.  One just less than a week ago in fact.

What you need is an advocate at claim time to ensure the claims process goes as it should – in addition t o ensuring your policy is set up correctly.  This is where an experienced Marine Insurance Broker comes in – well, a good one anyway!

There are also certain Insurance Companies to avoid out there.  Their policies aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

Sincere regards,

Neil Bailey


Bailey Insurance Brokers


New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 14:27 "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:



Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.



SM 299 Ocean Pearl

New Zealand

On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 a m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I u nderstood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.


On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not e nrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .

SM Shenanigans


From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owne rs] Amel owner saying


Good morning Danny,

I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).

That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expens es were higher than the
average, etc...

So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.

We have been working since November on this.

So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.

Sincerely, Alexandre


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying

To: amely achtowners@...

Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM


I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now

have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope

would help in the case of a write off.DannySM

299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19

"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...



  Dear Rafael,

I think you need to tell

the Group “your” story about the insu rance.

We have the same insurance

Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think

every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they

used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to

tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I

write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that

your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and

not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


Subject: [Am el Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying





Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM



friends AMEL ownersProbably this

will be

the last email that I send and I will withdraw from

the group. The reason is that Hurricane


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be

impossible for me to

recover it.The

insurance will only pay a fraction of


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and

other reasons.This situation not only

destroyed my< br>

ship but my dreams. My dreams

of living on board with my

wife, my dreams

of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my

dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


and finally returning to the beautiful

South of


In this

group I gained friends

and knowledge and

for that, I thank each and every one of

you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the

helped me with their advice.


you sail to Chile you will have a


here.Greetings to





< /div>







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