Re: SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off

eric freedman
 

Hi Bill,
I do not remember 100% however , aren't the 220 volt  Amel breakers double pole?
Fair Winds,
Eric



On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 01:07 PM, CW Bill Rouse wrote:

Eric,

Exactly, and that is why there is 115 volts via black USA to blue EU still ON at the Calpeda pump when the AC breaker (brown load) is OFF.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 11:54 AM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

At a USA the pedestal is wired (50 Amp) red, white , black, and green.

For the purposes of an Amel , the white (neutral is not used on a 50 amp plug.

 

 

The black and red are both hot and are connected to the blue and brown in the Amel system

The green ground is connected to the green yellow, which is connected to the AC and the bonding on the boat.

 

The ground green should be the same as a white (Neutral) leg on the USA circuit. Therefore between the green or brown  and the green yellow, you should read 110 volts.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 8:37 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM Climma AC - Calpeda Pump Voltage with Breakers Off

 

If my memory is correct, I have your answer. 

 

On USA grid there is a leg of 115VAC on the Load and another leg of 115VAC on the Return. The color of the Load is Brown and the color of Return/Neutral is Blue. From memory, I believe that the 220VAC breaker only switches OFF the Load, leaving 115VAC on the Return (Blue). Of course the case is connected to Earth.

 

Best,

 

Bill Rouse

720 Winnie St.

Galveston, Texas 77550

832-380-4970

 

 

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 5:21 PM Gary Silver via Groups.Io <garysilver=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi all:  The other day one of my Amel original Compact 9 ACs started short cycling and I checked the Calpeda pump and found it was not running.  First thing to check in this failure mode was the run capacitor at the pump, and sure enough it was bulging and clearly fried.  I tripped off all the AC breakers, shorted across the terminals of the capacitor at the pump, removed the capacitor and installed a new one rated at 440 VAC.  During the installation process I received a mild electrical shock.  Still with ALL AC breakers tripped at the 220 Volt Panel in the galley I measured the voltage across the blue and brown wires at the pump I found there was 220 VAC.  Also there was 115 VAC from the blue OR brown wire measured to the motor case/yellow-green wire.  

WHERE IS THIS SNEAK VOLTAGE POWER TO THE CALPEDA PUMP COMING FROM?  
Steps taken so far:
1.  Verified shore power connections (I'm on the USA grid).  All shore power connections appears properly wired. 
2.  Verified none of the 220 VAC panel Diruptors was shorted (i.e. now voltage across any of them when tripped).  
3.  Visually inspected the Climma three unit relay box and found no visual evidence of anything amiss. I have not yet tested the individual contacts for each of the three relays.
4.  Disconnected the shore power and started the generator, with it running there is no voltage at the Calpeda with the AC (air conditioning) breakers open.  Reviewed the Amel rudimentary schematics and don't see anything different between K1 (the generator change over relay) for shore power vs generator power.  
5  Verified that the only thing that removes voltage at the pump with the shore power plunged in is to trip the GFCI breaker on the side of the 220 VAC panel. 

I consulted VECO NA and they confirmed there should not be voltage at the pump with the breakers open.  The installation manual for the Amel triple unit system says,  "4.5 MULTIPLE INSTALLATION:  4.5.1  The mains supply to the pump relay box must be independent from the air-conditioners and protected by a circuit breaker and an independent fuse.  The pump supply will come in parallel from each relay which is controlled by each air conditioner." (English translation from Italian is a bit wanting).  

My questions:  
1.  Where is the independent 220 VAC power for the relay box wired from? (i.e. what is its source?)  Clearly it isn't coming from any of the three AC circuit breakers.  
2.  Any thoughts on the most likely failure mode to allow voltage at the Calpeda  when on shore power but not when running on the generator (in my mind that eliminates a stuck contact on one of the relays in the Climma relay box as the generator also uses those same relays).
3.  Anybody out there found a similar situation?

Thanks for your thoughts. 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 # 335
(just down the dock from s/v/ Delos here at Puerto Del Rey Marina in Fajardo Puerto Rico)

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