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Re: Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations

david bruce
 

Hi Orion,

We have a beautiful Santorin sloop well equipped for Med cruising (which coincidently we purchased after also seriously considering both a Contest or Hallberg Rassy).  For instance she has an Opacmare hydraulic passarelle, genset , AC, and stern thruster.  However despite our fondness for the boat we are also deliberating on whether or not to put money into equipping her for longer distance cruising or seek a well loved SM that would largely have these items, i.e. solar, arch, 2nd autopilot. 

It’s a tough decision, we really like our Santorin, which in response to your follow up questions does not have a second icebox or freezer under the forward settee seat, but which would easily accommodate one.  The AC fits well on the outboard side of the passageway just aft of the nav desk.   The 5kw genset fits well on the port side of the engine room, however in our installation anyway the batteries were moved under the salon seaberth on the stb side.  They do not come with water makers.  

There are two factors favoring an SM for us, one is based on geography and one is based on our sloop rig, so neither might apply to you.  The Med is a challenging and expensive place to have work done I have found.  Costs aside, logistics can be a challenge and tradespeople familiar with Amels are rare, making larger more complex projects such as equipping a boat for transoceanic passages (particularly as a part time cruiser) a somewhat daunting prospect. 

The second issue relates to the sloop rig which has the traveler along the aft end of the cockpit serving to make a full cockpit enclosure ( a must for me ) impossible due the angle of the mainsheet.  

At any rate, were I to do it again, my ideal scenario might be a well loved and fully equipped Santorin ketch, but they are pretty rare I think, so I have to agree with Ian and Mark that if the budget allows for the purchase and ongoing maintenance of a larger and more complex boat, the SM seems like the way to go, BUT, having purchased a Santorin and having recently kept an eye on the SM market,that difference with all respect to Mark, will be more than a ‘tad’ at least for me, I’d be thinking 75-100k. 

As an aside, an interesting phenomenon I am finding is how much less enthused I seem to be for most other boats I look at after having an Amel.  There just seem to be so many features I would not want to give up, I don’t think you can go too far wrong whatever you decide.  

Good luck, 

Dave 
Liesse
SN006 








On Oct 28, 2019, at 7:46 AM, Ian <parkianj@...> wrote:

Fully agree with Mark. 
I have a Santorin. I don’t want air con or freezers etc. It is a great blue water boat as it is. The prop shaft alternator keeps us well charged without running the engine. 
You will only get a Santorin price for your boat after 3 years. 
My advice is look for a well maintained SM that has everything On your wish list and ensure a similar resale price. S
Ian
Ocean Hobo
SN96




On 28 Oct 2019, at 14:15, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:


Orion,
 
I mean the upmost respect as I say this, I do not think the Santorin and adding upgrades is a good plan. You are looking to purchase an Amel and make significant investments and changes. Just the lithium upgrade along is going to cost US$15,000+, Aircon is another US$10,000+ etc (assuming you have an electrical system that can handle the load or you’ll have to make major changes).  Have you considered the cost of ownership while making these upgrades. They will all take considerable time. You will also need an electrician knowledgeable of Amel’s unique floating ground system (a very rare find). Why not buy the SM that already has this stuff. I think you can easily find a well kept Amel in this price range (maybe a tad more). Also keep in mind, in three years when you sell the SM, it will sell for more than the Santorin giving you your extra money back. 
 
The best advice I received when purchasing Cream Puff was from Bill Rouse who told me not to change anything for a year. This was very sound advice that prove invaluable. We sailed the eastern USA for the first year of our cruising getting to know our Amel. Only then did we make a couple of changes. We added an arch and solar. We have tried to keep all systems on our vessel as close to the original design as possible. We learned very quickly about the level of detailed thought that went into the vessel design. 
 
There is a very good string in this group regarding lithium upgrades. You will find it is not as easy as it sounds. You will also need to change alternators, battery chargers, regulators etc. These are major expensive components for a three year plan. Why not just install good quality batteries. Even if you change them all out midway, this is still 20% of the cost of the upgrade. A good set of Firefly batteries will last more than three years, again 1/3 the cost. I can see adding lithium for a ten year plan, but not a three.
 
I see you make no mention of a washer/dryer. Perhaps the most valuable piece of equipment on our boat is the washer/dryer. We have learned in our travels how doing laundry is a major pain. I can’t imagine cruising full-time without a washer/dryer. This sure has made life on anchor a lot more comfortable. 
 
I think your idea of breaking even on upgrades you make to a vessel is a little myopic. All the upgrades will do is sell the vessel faster when it goes to market. You will never recoup monies spent on a boat. If you try, you’ll own the boat longer than planned.
 
My advice, either buy the Santorin and sail it as is. Or, buy the SM and sail it as is. The SM will offer more comforts and in my opinion is easier to sail.
 
This is just my 2¢, I’m sure others will disagree. But, I’d love to see their viewpoints also.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Vista Mar, Panama
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Orion Martin
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Amel Santorin Specs and Alterations
 
Good evening everyone,

After many months of struggling between the Super Maramu and the Santorin, we have settled on the Santorin to do a circumnavigation. In the end the main reasons was cost and time. We considered the possibility that a circumnavigation would take three years, in which all likelyhood we would never use the boat again once we had finished. While the SM is the perfect boat for us (if there is such a thing in yachting), the expenses involved to get the boat up to scratch before we even set sail (let alone the cost of the boat) we found hard to justify for a three year trip. So our next option is the Santorin, in which we think we can modify the galley (to include washing machine and extra bench space), modify the portside seating, add air con to the aft cabin, possibly build a solar arch and install lithium batteries, plus standard antifouling paint/servicing/other minor modifications for under $300k AUD(including the purchase of the boat. Any thoughts on this scenario and its feasibility would be most appreciated.

Regarding the Santorin, I have a few burning questions that i haven't been able to source the information for. Does the Santorin have:
- Freezer under salon seating? 
- Any aircon? ( and is there space to install aircon units in aft/forward cabins and salon?) 
- Is the Santorin 12V or 24V, and what is the advantage of having 24V compared with 12V?
- If I install the lithium batteries in the passageway, is it possible to fit a small generator in the engine room and do I need one? ( If I have lithium batteries and solar arch, I figure I may only have to turn on the main engine once a day to help charge the batteries with the lithium batteries holding enough power to run aircon in aft cabin during the evening).

I understand purchasing a yacht I would most likely not make any money when it came time to sell, though in this case i would hope to break even especially if we went to the trouble of doing these modifications to the Santorin that future buyers would appreciate. The only thing bugging me is whether the total cost involved with such an enterprise would be mostly recovered or I am throwing good money after bad and could perhaps be better off spending more to buy an SM with less headache.

Again thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

Kindest regards 
Orion 
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