Re: How to make the most of Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387

Dan Carlson
 

Hi Colin, thanks for the reply and added information.  

Regarding the water maker: that is the key consumer for me and I am sure that the 160lph consumes a lot more current that the Dou100; however, it is less than 16a, so I could run it through the Victron, but then that would limit what else I could run on the generator.  I like to load the generator up to about 20-24a when I am using it, to make the most of the time.  

Regarding the power-pass current, I am not clear how Victron handles this. I am assuming that it is counting this as part of the 16amp limit on the AC input side, so this would limit what I can pull on the generator to 16a?

Regarding the location of the Victron unit, that is also good the hear. My understanding of the pro's of having it in the closet are the shorter 24v wire run from the batteries, and the cleaner/cooler environment. The con's to me would be the loss of the closet, the heat generated as well as the extra fan noise in the cabin.  

My plan is to locate the Victron in replacement of the 100amp charger in the engine room. Using the existing 100amp battery cables and hoping that the existing ventilation in the engine room is sufficient. I think that it will also be easier to wire in the 230v input and output wires.  
Additional consideration: I already have the 1800w invertor right adjacent to the existing 100amp charger so that gives me an additional set of battery cables as well as 230v wiring to work with.  In fact my first step will probably be to connect the output to from the Victron to that existing inverter output circuit/outlets and the rewire the breaker box as a second phase. 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on SM#387, sv BeBe.




On Mon, Dec 9, 2019, 3:07 AM islandpearl2_sm2k332 <colin.d.streeter@... wrote:
Hi Dan

Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to write a full response, but briefly looked at your diagram and can confirm that the Victron unit you describe is excellent and has serviced us particularly well. It also has an extra "direct power pass through" power outlet which you could run to the two original Amel Chargers (and watermaker) from if required.

Confirmed that we have this same unit wired as per your diagram, with the exception of the Duo AC/DC Water maker deletion. In other words, we do also run a/c power from the Amel switch (genset/shore power) to the Victon 3000w / 70amp 16a inverter/charger and on to the A/C switchboard which still includes the original switch for the water maker. The water maker has never tripped out over the 16amp BUT we probably have a more recent (2012 Duo a/c & dc 100/min) model water maker, not the previous 160L/Hr a/c only version. This could (I have not checked) mean that we need lower amperage, but in our case the water maker has never tripped over 16amps at peaks, and at times when we want to dump a little power ie. in full sun (1.04kw solar) plus 20kts plus wind (2x 450w Rutland 1200's) we run the Water maker on a/c for an hour or two off the 3000w inverter only, so would therefore not want it to run on the Genset/Shore Power pass through circuit only.

A little tip we got from S/V Joy's previous owners was to place the remote control for the Victron unit next to the a/c switchboard (just below the speaker). This has been an excellent spot to control the inverter/charger from as it is next to the a/c switches. Also we located the Victron Inverter/Charger in the wet clothes locker area backing onto the wall to the day bed/ battery banks. This was to get it as close as possible to the batteries as recommended by Victron. 

Colin Streeter
SV Island Pearl II
Back in Newport Marina, Brisbane after completing a totally trouble free - 3 year 3,000nm circumnavigation this month

SV Island Pearl II FOR SALE - US$299,000  now fully serviced, and totally ready to cross oceans again 
Contact me at svislandpearl@... for inventory and pictures.
See our circumnavigation tracker map here: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/IslandPearl2



Lastly 



On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 7:06 AM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:

Hello all,  I have been thinking through the best way to install a Victron Multi-Plus Inverter/Charger on SM#387.   I am specifically looking at the 3000w/70a/24v/16a model.   I have seen several previous posts that have discussed aspects of installing Victron Inverter/Chargers.  These previous posts have included discussion of installing switches between sources of supply to the 230v panel, or dividing the 230v panel between the inverter supply and direct supply from shore or inverter…   I am considering the approach diagramed roughly in the attached photo and described below.  Please let me know your feedback, questions or concerns.    

 

A very brief summary of the he Victron Multi-plus: It will take 230v power from shore or generator (45-65Hz) as well as 24v power from a battery bank to provide 230v power for the boat.   The 16a model is limited to 16a current load.  From this it can provide up to 3000a from the inverter, with or with-out shore power.  Whenever there is excess 230v supply over housed demand for 230v, the inverter will switch to a charger mode to put energy back into the battery bank.   On SM#387 this is great for most of our needs as we are currently restricted to 16a on the Shore power already.   However; we do have one significant conflict for power demand and that is the 230v water-maker which draws approx. 13-14Amps.  

 

To best solve for this and to minimize the requirement for different switches I would like to connect the output from the Victron directly to the 230v panel to provide consistent ac power for the boat when whether on battery, shore power or generator.    And to solve the current demand needs by removing the water-maker and both of the battery charging breakers from the existing 230 panel.  See notes below for further explanations.

 

Design notes to accompany attached diagram: 

  1. This approach is based on the current 16a system/limit on Shore Power, the current Onan 7MDKAV generator and the current AMEL switch box that automatically switches between Shore or Generator as AC source.   I think that I will add a 16a breaker on the shore power as a good precaution as I work on my overall wiring.
  2. I will need to add a new breaker box, or perhaps I can use the existing breaker box that was used for the Pro-Sine 1800w inverter that currently supplies power to the boat. This is where I would have the breakers for the water-maker and also for the secondary battery charger (perhaps a Sterling 24v/30a charger).   This will be supplied directly from the AMEL switching relay box.
  3. This would allow me to re-move the wires for the water-maker and the secondary charger from the main 230v panel.  
  4. The breaker the 100a charger will also be removed from the 230v panel, and new wire will be added directly from the Amel switch to the Victron Inverter (with the appropriate fuses/breakers).
  5. The AC output from the Victron Multi-Plus inverter directly to the 230v panel  (I need to consider changing the existing 30a breaker on the main panel to based on the overall limit from the Victron.)
  6. Supply the battery power to the Victron Multi-plus from the existing cable that supplied the 100a charger (This looks like a 50mm2 cable, which is sufficient for up to 5meter run).
  7. Configuration:   The Victron Multi-Plus has a Power Control setting that sets a limit the current that it will draw on the AC input source.   I could set this to a max of 10amps.  The rationale for this is:
    1. When I am running the generator and I turn on the water-maker I have already limited to the Victron current draw to 10amps.  That and the 13-4amps that the water-maker draws will put an appropriate load on the generator.   Note: it is likely that the Victron will regularly be fully utilizing this limit because what ever I am not using for 230a current will be allocated to charge the batteries, up to the 70amp limit for the Victron for charging. 
    2. When I am on Shore power I have set a very conservative 10a limit on the 16amp shore power circuit but I will actually be able to provide more current to the 230 amp panel than I previously would on shore power with out the Victron.   This is achieved through the Victron Power Assist capability.  When the 230v AC demand on the main panel exceeds the 10amp limit on the current input, the inverter will make up the shortage using the Inverter to draw from the battery.   The documented examples from Victron specifically shows an example of a 10a limit on the input current being supplemented with 10amps from the inverter to provide 20amps total AC current out.    This should be sufficient for our needs as most of our higher current draws on the AC side are only for short duration, i.e. hot water kettle for 1-2 minutes, 3-5 minutes to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher, or short bursts for the micro-wave. 
  8. Operational considerations:
    1. Day in and day out we are already trained to look up at the 230v Current meter before we turn anything on the 230v panel, and shut something off if necessary.  Regarding the water heater, we currently do not leave it on when on Shore Power.  We will turn it on for an hour in the morning and that is sufficient for the whole day.
    2. Regarding the generator operation and water-maker:  I am always in the engine room before and after running the generator / water-make; to set the flush valves prior to the water-maker run and after the water-maker run to flush the membranes and check that everything is ok.  Therefore having the breakers for the watermaker and secondary charger in the engine room do not add any inconvenience to my existing routing for running generator/water-maker.
    3. Important!  The Victron Multi-Plus AC current frequency out will default to 50Hz when on the inverter, but it will switch to match the frequency of any input AC source.  So when running the generator it will be 50Hz, however, when on 60Hz Shore Power then the AC output to the main panel will be 60Hz.

 

 

Please let me know your feedback, challenges, questions on this, as I want to get it right the first time and I know I am not the first down this road and there are learnings to be shared.

 

Thanks and Regards,  Daniel and Lori Carlson on SM#387, sv-BeBe, currently at Shelter Bay Marina, Panama

 

 

 

 

 

 



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445

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