Re: Self Insurance


Patrick McAneny
 

Dave ,Ken, 
A lot of good points,but I think if we have too many restrictions,it would become too complicated. It would take someone's time and ability to assess a owners qualifications to join into the group  .I am afraid if we make this too complicated ,it won't get off the ground. I also don't think the very fact that you have had a claim in the past ,indicates that you are a higher risk . I too have never had a car accident claim nor even a health ,or home insurance claim. I have not had a ticket in 30 yrs. Yet my boat electronics was damaged by a nearby lightning strike while on my mooring in front of our house . Lightning is random, can hit any boat, and has no bearing on my seamanship.  I had another claim, while anchored in Guadeloupe , three charter cats anchored about 75 yards in front of me . Overnight at 4 am with 30 kt. gusts a 47 ft. cat from Dream Yacht Charters drug anchor and hit us , we were asleep . We ourselves were so well anchored that we held boat boats for almost an hour before they broke our anchor out. My insurance Pantaenius told me to make a claim with them and they would seek reimbursement from DYCharter. So I have had two claims ,and may not qualify for membership ,but I submit that I bear no responsibility for these claim and that they do not reflect on my 50 plus years of operating boats.
We actually are a low risk ,as we live in Maryland on the Sassafras River ,a hurricane hole and only cruise every other year ,then for just six months. I know we would be sharing risk with full time cruisers ,cruising in unfamiliar waters and at higher risks. But I would be willing to accept their risk as I think the number of Amels that are a total lose is quit low and the risk would be shared by many.
  I would like to know how many boats have been a total lose outside of hurricane zones ,say in the last ten years. If it was say five @ $250,000. ,if that lose was shared by 200 members ,that would amount to $6,250. per member over ten years, or $625.00 per year.  If your initial one time deposit was a percentage of your declared boat value ,say 2.5% ,coupled with a deductible say 10% based on the fixed value ,that would balance the relative difference in boat values.
Once the group had a sizable reserve to cover a loss or two ,in the event of a loss perhaps an assessment would be made on each member to replenish the fund . I think that an owner assuming no claims would receive a 50% refund of  his initial deposit ,make this attractive,after all it is about sharing the risk ,while saving money. I think if we keep it simple and find someone to administer it,and assuming there was enough members wishing to join ,this could work to everyone's benefit.
One would still need to obtain liability insurance. One could also obtain full coverage as now, and have a much lower fixed value ,which should lower the premiums. I am trying too obtain insurance now ,and insurance has been hard to find,with many exemptions and very high premiums. I think its going to get worst as there are fewer underwriters in the offshore business.
Stay Safe,
Pat
SM Shenanigans



-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 19, 2020 3:34 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance

Though I think it would be a great idea to start the "Amel Group Insurance Company" AGIC, it's a lot more than just opening a bank account and filling it with our $6000 each month.  Insurance companies are Bankers first, and Offer insurance second.  Once you get the first $1.2M in the bank it has to be invested, and everyone will have different ideas of where to invest it.  Well hedged is probably best, but these days I have been a very unsuccessful investor!  

On the questionnaire - Ask about Auto, Motorcycle, Airplane Insurance - Any tickets past 10 years, and any claims?  People are the same on the water as they are on land or in the air.  Careful drivers on land and in the air, will be careful captains on the water.   

I also think that the owners that will be insured by AGIC should be required to have three owners confirm that the owner is worthy of getting insurance through AGIC.  The first 200 owners insured also need to be well vetted be part of the group.  All you need is a few bad actors to bankrupt an insurance company.  Everyone has different ideas of what the appropriate level of experience should be required to sail an Amel off shore.  What would be the level of instruction/experience required for new owners, and who would be capable of imparting that knowledge and signing off for a new owner to be insured.  Bill's class would be a good one, but should Bill alone be able to sign off for a new member?  No one person should.  

There's a lot of benefits we could gain by starting this venture.  For one, it would make the AMEL brand more valuable if the insurance was transferrable to a new owner given a mandatory level of experience, no claims (any insurance), and an AMEL offshore sailing course.  Just like a check ride by the FAA.  

To do this right we need a village, and I think the AMEL Owners are the right village.  If we start now, we could draft a document and get this started by the end of the year.

First get interest level.  200 boats would probably be a good start.
Draft a Document how the company would operate.
  1.  Investments
  2.  Personal requirements to be insured
  3.  What/Where will the insurance cover
  4.  How/who will manage the claims
  5.  Define a bad risk owner, and how will a bad risk owner be deleted from the insurance group.
  6.  Insurance claims - I have never had a claim on my Car Insurance, Motorcycle Insurance, Boat Insurance, or Airplane Insurance.  Yup, I HAVE NEVER MADE A CLAIM IN 40 years of driving several types of vehicles.
  7.  Tickets in the last 10 years - Yup, I received 1 speeding ticket between San Diego and Vegas.  Just moving with traffic.  Safer to move at the same speed as traffic even though I was Breaking the Law.



So the first think would be to find out who is interested in the insurance, and each should answer the following questions.  If there is interest we need to get everyone into a spreadsheet and when we get to 200 people we can move forward to the next step.
HERE IS MINE
1.  Current Insurance Company:  JACKLINE POLICY
2.  Cost yearly: $5700
3.  Coverage amount: $280K
4.  Coverage location: Worldwide except weather zones
5.  3rd party Liability: $1M
6.  Solo Sailor: ?
7.  Insurance claims - I have never had a claim on my Car Insurance, Motorcycle Insurance, Boat Insurance, or Airplane Insurance.  Yup, I HAVE NEVER MADE A CLAIM IN 40 years of driving several types of vehicles.
8.  Tickets in the last 10 years - Yup, I received 1 speeding ticket between San Diego and Vegas.  Just moving with traffic.  Safer to move at the same speed as traffic even though I was Breaking the Law.
9.  ??  Any other questions we need to ask to get the first 220 or more first responders?  Some people will not meet the standards of the majority, so we will need to get more than the number required for critical mass.  Even I may not meet the standards of some.  
 
Done rambling....

Ken Powers
Aquarius SM2K #262
Currently in Phuket Thailand


Join main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.