Re: Self Insurance




  1. Nothing to do with winning – we are all looking for a solution for a problem most owners do not realize is coming at them.
  2. Synthetic or derivative concept is being used in financial & commodity (futures) markets. FE: before there were ethanol futures one could work out a balance/ratio between oil and corn futures and minimize risks in ethanol trading by hedging oil & corn. So in my concept we would sit down with a carrier (fe LLOYDS) and discuss a spread of risks between Ken’s AGIC and LLOYDS. If the AGIC group is sizeable I am pretty sure they will be open to a dialogue. .
  3. Sorry I might not have gotten the concept that the self-insurance was for total loss only. That being the case: if indeed a carrier is not on the hook for any total loss that might mitigate premium and/or reluctance to provide regular marine cover. It is a form of “re-insurance”; one of the main assets in Warren BUFFETS portfolio.


Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128


In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

May 19, 2020 14:04:44


USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

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From: <> On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 13:45
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance



To address your input in order.


1. I agree we  don't want to get involved in managing this self insurance. That is why I said from the start, that there would need to be a paid administrator ,and I suggested an annual fee of perhaps .20% of boat value to cover expenses.Kent suggested a voluntary board to provide guidance .


2. 1.5 million in a reserve fund would seem adequate to cover three boats lost in a single year,which is very unlikely. The fund could be replenished by an assessment to all members to bring the fund back up to the prior balance. Keep in mind this is only meant to share the risk of a total lose ,not if you run into a piling and scratch your hull. So if a boat was a total  lose and the payout was $250,000. and assuming we had 200 members ,each member would pay into the fund $1,250, their share of the lose.


3. I don't even know what a synthetic structure is,so don't have much to say about that, I read that and just throw up my hands ,you win ! I do agree with you, that many may not realize the changes in the insurance industry until its time to renew their policy. I also agree that we need to determine the level of interest, and many with a policy in force at this time may not be,understandable. Brent has made up a survey ,very well done and it will be presented to the group to determine interest. It may be ahead of its time ,but I think its time will come. if we lack interest at this time ,we will put it on the back burner for now and revisit when things in  the industry get worse. We don't want to spin wheels and write emails for nothing, at least I don't,my two fingers get sore !


Be Safe,


SM Shenanigans




-----Original Message-----
From: Teun BAAS <
To: <>
Sent: Tue, May 19, 2020 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance

Below from Mark’s friend reflects exactly what I mentioned last week. It is no longer a matter of cost but “can I get it”.


On Pat and Ken’s Emails:


  1. I don’t think we want to get involved in managing this “self-insurance”.


  1. USD1.5 Million is no way enough but can be a reasonable buffer to start discussing a “synthetic” or “derivative” structure with a professional carrier such as LLOYD’s.


  1. Let’s first see if we really can come up with 200 interested owners; without any solid group of owners we will be nowhere in a discussion with a professional organization.



So far I have only seen “luke-warm” interest. I believe a lot of owners don’t realize what is really going on until personally confronted with refusal to renew as was my experience.

Q1 this year I was reading the thread on our AYOG Forum about insurance problems but didn’t think it would concern me as I had been with LLOYD’s for 2 years to be renewed every April.


January/February 2020 a fellow AMEL 54 owner asked me for the contact info of my South Pacific agent and I knew he was offered in February/March 2020 a similar cover with a similar premium as I had for the last 2 years. Knowing he got LLOYDS to insure him I was pretty certain my renewal would just be a formality UNTILL 1st week of April 2020 I was notified by my agent that LLOYDS no longer was in the sailboat insurance business.


That gave me 2 weeks to find an alternative .


So let’s first determine if we can come up with 200 really seriously interested AMEL owners; failing that we are just wasting time 😊.


Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128


In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

May 19, 2020 13:03:09


USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909


You can follow AMELIT via this link:





From: <> On Behalf Of Mark Erdos via
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 11:08
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance


Just as an FYI - An agent I am friendly with who understands and brokers policies for the marine insurance business sent me this:


I can tell you that due to the many companies pulling out of the recreational marine insurance market, including the all important reinsurers, that availability will soon be the primary concern as opposed to affordability, especially for two people cruising long distances.


Hopefully the pendulum will swing back toward the sailors in the future.


He thinks things will get worse before they get better.



With best regards,





Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia



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