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Kent , Of course I would be interested either way. Just got off the phone with Gary Golden to discuss a policy he sent me. He said that liability alone is available , although because its fairly cheap some companies don't want to bother with it ,being several hundred ,opposed to several thousand.
From: karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...>
Sent: Wed, May 20, 2020 11:02 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Self Insurance
Thank you all for your thoughts, ideas, suggestions, and doubts.
Bill R has been in touch with Gary Golden at Manifest Marine. He is looking into a group policy, but at least initially doesn't think it would be enough of a market to interest commercial carriers.
Sooo, while it's not a foregone conclusion, we may have to go the self-insurance route.
That would be an experiment unless we can find someone with expertise to help us set it up. We may find ourselves with few or no options sooner rather than later so I think it's worth pursuing if there is enough interest.
Please respond to this thread and indicate if you are seriously interested in participating in
1)A commercial group Policy, and
2)An AYOG self-insured plan
If there are at least 200 owners interested, I will continue to work on it. If there is enough interest, we will take this private and ask you to complete a survey that Brent is working on.
Thanks for your prompt replies.
On May 19, 2020 3:34 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
Though I think it would be a great idea to start the "Amel Group Insurance Company" AGIC, it's a lot more than just opening a bank account and filling it with our $6000 each month. Insurance companies are Bankers first, and Offer insurance second. Once you get the first $1.2M in the bank it has to be invested, and everyone will have different ideas of where to invest it. Well hedged is probably best, but these days I have been a very unsuccessful investor!
On the questionnaire - Ask about Auto, Motorcycle, Airplane Insurance - Any tickets past 10 years, and any claims? People are the same on the water as they are on land or in the air. Careful drivers on land and in the air, will be careful captains on the water.
I also think that the owners that will be insured by AGIC should be required to have three owners confirm that the owner is worthy of getting insurance through AGIC. The first 200 owners insured also need to be well vetted be part of the group. All you need is a few bad actors to bankrupt an insurance company. Everyone has different ideas of what the appropriate level of experience should be required to sail an Amel off shore. What would be the level of instruction/experience required for new owners, and who would be capable of imparting that knowledge and signing off for a new owner to be insured. Bill's class would be a good one, but should Bill alone be able to sign off for a new member? No one person should.
There's a lot of benefits we could gain by starting this venture. For one, it would make the AMEL brand more valuable if the insurance was transferrable to a new owner given a mandatory level of experience, no claims (any insurance), and an AMEL offshore sailing course. Just like a check ride by the FAA.
To do this right we need a village, and I think the AMEL Owners are the right village. If we start now, we could draft a document and get this started by the end of the year.
First get interest level. 200 boats would probably be a good start.
Draft a Document how the company would operate.
2. Personal requirements to be insured
3. What/Where will the insurance cover
4. How/who will manage the claims
5. Define a bad risk owner, and how will a bad risk owner be deleted from the insurance group.
6. Insurance claims - I have never had a claim on my Car Insurance, Motorcycle Insurance, Boat Insurance, or Airplane Insurance. Yup, I HAVE NEVER MADE A CLAIM IN 40 years of driving several types of vehicles.
7. Tickets in the last 10 years - Yup, I received 1 speeding ticket between San Diego and Vegas. Just moving with traffic. Safer to move at the same speed as traffic even though I was Breaking the Law.
So the first think would be to find out who is interested in the insurance, and each should answer the following questions. If there is interest we need to get everyone into a spreadsheet and when we get to 200 people we can move forward to the next step.
HERE IS MINE
1. Current Insurance Company: JACKLINE POLICY
2. Cost yearly: $5700
3. Coverage amount: $280K
4. Coverage location: Worldwide except weather zones
5. 3rd party Liability: $1M
6. Solo Sailor: ?
7. Insurance claims - I have never had a claim on my Car Insurance, Motorcycle Insurance, Boat Insurance, or Airplane Insurance. Yup, I HAVE NEVER MADE A CLAIM IN 40 years of driving several types of vehicles.
8. Tickets in the last 10 years - Yup, I received 1 speeding ticket between San Diego and Vegas. Just moving with traffic. Safer to move at the same speed as traffic even though I was Breaking the Law.
9. ?? Any other questions we need to ask to get the first 220 or more first responders? Some people will not meet the standards of the majority, so we will need to get more than the number required for critical mass. Even I may not meet the standards of some.
Aquarius SM2K #262
Currently in Phuket Thailand