Jean, I do not think your comment to Dave was fair. I think he has made best effort possible to exclude his business from the discussion in this and in prior posts. It is really difficult to find a good sails loft - anybody who can saw or speak Chinese thinks she or he can start one. Discussing various lofts available, especially those familiar with Les Chantiers AMEL yachts is rare and useful information. In my solidarity with Dave, whom I know mostly from his posts and have little to none associations with, I will too refrain from this group, until you kindly post an apology to that man and ask him to reconsider. As a fair moderator, I hope you can see that this is in the forum's best interest.
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--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Dave_Benjamin" <dave_benjamin@...> wrote:
Jean and others,
Point taken. My apologies. I will no longer be posting anything on this forum.
On other forums, most notably ones oriented for North American cruisers, I have been thanked for my contributions and perspective. So I won't waste any more time and/or energy on this forum. Better to put those efforts where the posts are welcomed.
--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Jean Boucharlat" <jean.boucharlat@> wrote:
Dave,
Most, if not all of us, have special skills and/or experience that we are willing to exchange with others on this forum for the benefit of all. That’s the very point of this forum. As none of us, so far, has tried to make business here, we know that the opinions or advices exchanged, even when occasionally erroneous, are always non-commercial and in good faith.
Your sail making experience is obviously valuable to everybody if you are willing to keep it separate from your pocketbook. Otherwise we will never know from what perspective you are talking and your opinions will lose their value.
Sailing is, thankfully, steeped in traditions and I would very much like to uphold the old European one that it is very bad manners to carry business at the club!
This will be my last post on this issue.
I have made my point, I’ll stick to my opinion, but I’ll let members do as they wish.
Regards,
Jean Boucharlat
(Formerly SM 232)
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Dave Benjamin
Sent: dimanche 2 août 2009 05:38
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104
Jean,
My opinion is that when someone is discussing sails specifically I should not be prohibited from mentioning that I'm in the business. I've seen some really poor choices made by sailmakers who don't understand Amels. Why not let people know there is a sailmaker who understands both their boat and their needs?
n addition to sailmaking I'm a USCG licenced captain and I have over 30 years of experience.
I respect your opinion but if someone is asking about sails I don't feel it's inappropriate to mention we may be able to help.
--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Jean Boucharlat < <mailto:jean.boucharlat%40orange.fr> jean.boucharlat@> wrote:
From: Jean Boucharlat < <mailto:jean.boucharlat%40orange.fr> jean.boucharlat@>
Subject: RE: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104
To: <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 12:47 AM
Dave,
As a Maramu owner you are just as welcome in this group as any of us.
As a sail maker trying to drum up business you are not.
My plain, simple and only point is that no one should try to use this group
for personal profit and/or business promotion.
I didn’t write directly to you because the issue is not between you and me,
it concerns the whole membership to which you address your unsolicited
self-promoting material.
Regards,
Jean Boucharlat
(Formerly SM 232)
From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dave Benjamin
Sent: samedi 1 août 2009 00:11
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104
Jean,
Perhaps you are unaware that I own a Maramu, and thus am also an owner.Who
better to build sails for an Amel than an Amel owner? I've heard complaints
from owners that their sails don't work well with the rather unique Amel
pole system because they are cut incorrectly. I recently met a SM owner who
was supplied a furling mizzen that did not work without substantial
modification, agaion on account of a sailmaker unaccustomed to the Amel rig.
If you don't care to read my posts feel free to delete them.
And I think it would have been far more appropriate for you to contact me
directly than publicly.
Regards,Dave BenjaminS/V Exit StrategyMaramu #29
--- On Fri, 7/31/09, Jean Boucharlat <jean.boucharlat@ orange.fr
<mailto:jean. boucharlat% 40orange. fr> > wrote:
From: Jean Boucharlat <jean.boucharlat@ orange.fr
<mailto:jean. boucharlat% 40orange. fr> >
Subject: RE: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
<mailto:amelyachtow ners%40yahoogrou ps.com>
Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 1:54 AM
To the moderator and all members of this group
I think that Dave Benjamin, whom I have never met, should be strongly
advised to refrain from peddling his sails on this group site.
This is not the first time he has done it.
I have no idea whether his sails are good, bad or indifferent but I find it
very disturbing to be exposed to his insidious commercials in this Amel
Owners Group that is only intended for friendly and disinterested exchanges
of information between members.
All comments are welcomed (except from Dave Benjamin himself).
Jean Boucharlat
(Formerly SM 232)
From: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:amelyachtow ners@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dave Benjamin
Sent: vendredi 31 juillet 2009 02:25
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104
Thanks for the kind words. I wish we could have been of service. One thing
has changed since you got your quote from us. We now have an alliance with
Hyde Sails for our manufacturing and we are offering Hyde branded sails in
the local market. I would encourage any Amel owners desiring top quality
cruising sails at a great price to contact us for a quote. Hyde offers some
real advantages over the competition.
www.IslandPlanetSai ls.com
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Mr D <dshkipin@gmail. com <mailto:dshkipin%
40gmail.com>
wrote: From: Mr D <dshkipin@gmail. com <mailto:dshkipin% 40gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104
To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com
<mailto:amelyachtow ners%40yahoogrou ps.com>
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 1:50 PM
I agree with Dave. I did a fair amount of shopping around, including Daves'
company which had a very competitive deal. I ended up getting my sails done
in May of this year for 6,938 USD incl CA tax from UK-Halsey San Francisco.
Here is the breakdown FYI for anyone looking to get new sails.
<br>
Amel 39 Ketch Powerhead II Mainsail, Challenge 9.18
oz Dacron, Blue Water Finish, Attached Foot, 4 RBS
Battens, Top 2 Battens Full-Length, Sailman M10
Batten Receptacles & Joints, 3 Reefs, Draft Stripes,
Leech Cord, Telltales, Cunningham, Sail Bag
1 2,183.00 2,183.00T
<br>
Amel 39 Ketch 120% Roller Furling Passagemaker
Genoa, Challenge 8.18 oz Dacron, UV Sunbrella
Suncover, Padded Luff, Blue Water Finish, Leech and
Foot Chords, Draft Stripes, Telltale Window, Sail Bag
1 2,438.00 2,438.00T
<br>
Amel 39 Ketch Powerhead I Mizzen, Challenge 8.18 oz
Dacron, Blue Water Finish, 4 RBS Battens, Top Batten
Full-Length, 1 Reef, Draft Stripes, Leech Cord,
Telltales, Cunningham, Sail Bag
1 784.00 784.00T
<br>
ATN Gale Sail, 100sf 1 975.00 975.00T
<br>
Hope this helps
--- In amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com, Dave Benjamin <dave_benjamin@ ...>
wrote:
You mention the sails are flat and have little shape. That's a trademark of certain lofts that don't have the ability to produce for the industry and
sell direct. Amel owners that want sails that will perform well in a variety
of conditions are better served by dealing with a real sailmaker.
You should also know that many of these sails are made with second quality or other manufacturer rejected cloth. That's why they can sell them so
cheaply. In many cases I see sails like these being sold for less than what
it cost just to buy top quality material.
The bitterness of poor quality outlasts the sweetness of a cheap price. --- On Sat, 5/16/09, etske <amel.sharki. charmedii@ ...> wrote: From: etske <amel.sharki. charmedii@ ...> Subject: [Amel] New Sails for Sharki 104 To: amelyachtowners@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 2:59 AM Dear all, Since our sails were still the original ones from 1984 we decided to go for new ones. After lots of offers we choose Leesails in Hong Kong. They
guaranteed us that they made sails for a Sharki before. We had discussions
about several options I wanted (all headsails with foamstrip and UV strip,
top batten full, original reefing system with steel wire reinforcing, etc.)
They all did this and for an amazing price. Mizzen, Main, Storm Jib, Furling Jib, Furling Genoa II, Furling Genoa I, alltogether for 6020 US
(incl. P&P)!!!!
So you try to find the hook. Sails arrived before the agreed date and all in good order. All sails were tested in the past two weeks and I can't find
anything that's not 100% as agreed upon. Main and Mizzen are both flat
without loosing there shape, GI is huge and has the rounding where it should
be. GII is flat as an high aspect (she does 30 upwind now), Jib we used in a
full gale with main down and mizzen up. After three hours with forces up to
10 bft all was perfect OK.
I would advice if asked to go there if you need new sails. Cheers and fair winds, Hajé
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