Re: tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG


Louis Trepanier
 

Thanks, Teun,

I will communicate with Caterina.

Louis


On Aug 4, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Louis Trepanier via groups.io <louis.alepa@...> wrote:

Hello Teun,

I still have one BAMAR MEJ 2 installed on AMELIA II on the Genoa. This unit is now using the motor that was on the staysail system which I replaced last year by a manual furling system after repetitive failures. I had fortunately kept this unit for spare parts.

I can see the day when I will have to replace the Bamar Genoa furler with a more reliable unit but in the mean time, it would be interesting to know what discounted price you got from BAMAR for the motors. If the price is reasonable, I would consider buying one for spare, as temporary solution (another "contradiction in terminis" but since everything is temporary, let’s enjoy the ride!)

Thanks,

Louis Trepanier 
S.V. Amelia II (Amel 54) 



On Aug 4, 2022, at 11:15 AM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Further (and hopefully FINAL) update:
 
BAMAR is sending 2 motors & brake sets to AUSTRALIA this week prior to their closing for the Summer Holidays this Friday (tomorrow).
 
They offered a discounted price for the units which I happily accepted as the prompt shipment will help me to meet “sailing deadlines” – now there is a “Contradictio in terminis”; sailing deadline. 😊
 
Hahahahahaha.
 
Anyhow – glad how this has been handled by BAMAR.
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
August 4, 2022 18:14:12
 
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
 
 
 
 
From: Teun BAAS 
Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2022 21:08
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Cc: Carol LP <clp@...>
Subject: RE: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
 
QUICK UPDATE,
 
BAMER just sent an Email apologizing for the delay and indicated they are prepared to send new motors & brakes to AUSTRALIA.
 
Very positive development and I will keep you informed.
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
August 3, 2022 21:06:39
 
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teun BAAS via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 12:45
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
 
Morning David,
 
Update on my situation:
 
  1. After we got the motor out of the housing of the Stay sail furler the marine electrician tested and concluded the (Italian made) motor was completely dead. We assume the same for the Head sail furler
 
  1. Although initially OEM furler manufacturer was responsive AFTER informing July 26 2022 (their time) both ITALY and USA of this unfortunate news NO response/feedback at all.
 
  1. My local rigger is in touch with Italian manufacturer of the motor; also trying to source an AUSTRALIAN motor but we both agree that this is ultimately not the final solution.
 
  1. HARKEN furlers are no option right now as apparently HARKEN stopped production and send their design back to the drawing board.
 
  1. So now I have given the go ahead for the PRO FURL CS5230 for the Head sail and the PRO FURL CS480 for the Stay sail. Right now the earliest shipment would be the middle of September from FRANCE but the rigger is trying to expedite. 
 
  1. This new rigger is not in favor of keeping the old AMEL foil – we are still discussing 😊.
 
  1. Although I planned to do the standing rigging next year I rcvd such very good feedback on my current (new) rigger I have decided to use the down time to also replace the Standing rigging. The Running rigging was already replaced this month by another local rigger but not yet installed.
 
The re-installation of VICTRON LITHIUM will be completed this week.
 
Never a dull moment with these boats 😊
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
August 2, 2022 12:42:49
 
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
 
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Teun BAAS via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 13:23
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
 
Hi David,
 
Really appreciate the feedback; especially on the furlers – this helps immensely. I have shared your Email with my rigger who really is in favor of HARKEN and PROFURL over RECHMANN. But, as we all realize, everybody has their own opinions & preferences. For me it is very important what is available when as I do have a time deadline to meet.
 
Again – thanks for taking the time and I might be back to you.
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 29, 2022 13:21:48
 
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Dickman via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 12:02
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
 
hi Teun,
   Sorry for the late reply, just returned from a trip to Ireland (by plane).  In March/April, I had Philippe LaConte and Gaetan at Caraibe Marine in Martinique replace all of my standing rigging and the furlers on my A54.  I replaced with ProFurl.  Specific models were the NDE2 C420 (800W) for the staysail and the NDE2 C520 (1200W) for the genoa.  I have a 155 genoa on Galini and wanted the extra torque the more powerful motor provided for the front headsail.  I was told that it was the first installation by Profurl for these furlers on an A54 and there were some adjustments that had to be custom made by Phillipe and crew (mostly Phillipe himself).  
    Both Profurl motors have longer extrusions that the old Banmar units they replaced.  That required modification to both the staysail and genoa foils, in that they needed to be shortened.  
 
For the staysail, I actually replaced the entire foil with a new one due to the age of the boat (#100 2008) and the size needed was available in Martinique and was a standard design.  The staysail has a single track so this was not an issue.  
 
However, as you know the Amel genoa foil has a special triple track set up that is unique and a special swivel for the ballooner sail.  Thus, we opted to cut the foil about 7 inches (as I recall more or less) to accommodate the longer lower extrusion incorporated in the NDE2 480 motor base.  In addition, the standard interface piece between the lower extrusion and the foil was too small in diameter so a custom tube interface was machined by Phillipe to fit. In addition, the upper extrusion and clamp bearings around the stay that insert into the swivel had to be modified, again machined by Phillipe to fit.  The swivel that came with the Profurl motor was discarded.    
 
Finally, at the base of the 420 motor, there is a stemhead attachment to the boat chainplate that consisted of two offset brackets that are pinned together to form a "U" shape.  this differs from the 520 motor stemhead that is a solid machined SS tube.  Phillipe is having made a similar SS tube for my 420 motor that should arrive soon to match that of the 520. 
 
Since this installation of these motors on the Amels was new to Profurl, Phillipe apparently convinced them that the market was large enough that Profurl sent a design engineer from France to Martinique to see the issues on my boat before it was completed.  Although I was not there during their visit, Phillipe told me that Profurl took his design accomodations back to the company for implementation to a standard Amel application kit.  I have no idea if that was adopted by Profurl, but it would be worth an ask either to Phillipe or Profurl directly.
 
As too cost, the C420 was 6200 euros plus about 1500 euros for minor parts and installation. The C520 was 8200 euros plus 1500 euros for minor parts and  installation.
 
How do they work?  I sailed  over 2 months from Martinique - Guadaloupe - St Croix - Dominican Republic - Jamaica - Cayman Islands - Houston .  Now sail in houston every weekend.
 
So far, quite happy.  Can furl/unfurl on all points of sail in light and strong (up to 40 knts on one occasion, but between 20 and 30 knts often) winds on almost any point of sail.  Of course depower when furled, but I do not generally turn upwind to furl the fore sails.  I do not let them flog, but keep some minor tension on the sheets while furling.  If the motors appear to strain, I stop and release sheet tension of adjust course.
 
Hope this helps... happy to discuss further.
 
David
Gailini A54 #100
 
Attached here are final photos:
<image001.jpg>
<image002.jpg>
 
On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 4:08 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill,
 
As not to bother the forum I will keep you informed via direct Emails on the options we are looking at (f.e: getting the OEM motor directly from Italian manufacturer; trying to find a local = OZ motor which will work - but those options will not solve the problem only kick the can down the road; getting lead time & quotes from RECKMANN, PROFURL and HARKEN etc.).
 
David,
 
Looking forward hearing from you.
 
Have a great weekend.
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 29, 2022 07:08:38
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 23:38
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
 
Teun.
 
I Bcc'd David Dickmann who had Profurl or Facnor Furlers installed without the "needed" change of foils. although, I believe that for another reason the staysail foil was changed. 
He had this work done at Caraibe Greement (Caribbean Marine Rigging) in Martinique.
 
As far as I know, the ProFurl/FACNOR furler is the only electric furler advertised as waterproof.
 
David,
Maybe you can give Teun some guidance on the foil issue.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   
 
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:09 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
Morning Martin,
 
Thanks for your reply. It seems you went thru similar expensive frustrating furler experience 😊
 
I also am/was under the impression that RECKMANN was absolutely the ultimate on furlers – “typisch Deutsche Gruendlichkeit 😊”. However, talking to several marine professionals & riggers it seems that RECKMANN is also are starting to slack. Hard to separate the typical trash talk and facts.
 
I have RECKMANN on the short list (RECKMANN; PROFURL/FACNOR (the same)) for consideration besides replacing the motors (either with the original Italian or local OZ motors) in the current units. Although less expensive it doesn’t solve the design issues which caused my current problems; so only kicking the can down the road as the failures have nothing to do with wrong handling; wrong or poor maintenance etc.
 
Besides price another important consideration is lead time as I have to leave AUSTRALIA under the current ABF Control Permit. 
 
Since changing the furlers will also mean changing the foils etc. etc. I am also discussing having the standing rigging replaced at the same time – although originally I had that planned for next year or 2024.
 
Never a dull moment sailing a boat .
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
July 28, 2022 11:08:34
 
 
 
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Martin Birkhoff via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 20:06
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/Electric Furler for AMEL 54/AYOG
 
Good morning Teun,

I cannot give information about Harken. We replaced the Bamar furlers with Reckmann. Absolute simple technical design, no electronics. Both furlers are working without any problems since 2018.

The story before: When we got our 54 in 2016 the jib furler motor was dead due to water ingress into the housing and the genoa furler motor was working extremely noisy because of corrosion. The death of this motor could be foreseen. Both electronic boxes where dead too. After replacing the electronic boxes and the jib furler motor we had a break down of the wheel which controls the belt tension at this unit. One of the new electronic boxes never worked properly. It always caused a switch off of the motor due to over voltage though there was no over voltage. We decided to change both ...

Fair winds

Martin Bikhoff
SY Mago del Sur - 54#40
currently Beaulieu sur Mer, France



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