Date   

Fw: [Amel] Watermaking, Dessalator

Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...>
 

Because the search facility on this revised site is so difficult I set out below a message that I posted on 28 June 2012.  Martin de Jong speaks perfect English and no doubt Spanish and French. He is incredibly knowledgeable and helpful. His phone no is 0034 96571988.
 
              Anne and John, Bali Hai, SM 319 for sale in Malta   annejohnholl@...
 

Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel] Watermaking
 
Hello Jose,
The best place for advice is Martin de Jong who is Mr Dessalator in Spain (desalador@...). The second bit of my advice is that so far as I know all watermakers are based on high pressure pumps made by the US company called Catpumps.Their European Agent is at  cpi@... and they will send you a list of a local agents and I feel sure that there will be one in the Azores because the locals including the hotels will have big R.O. installations. My catpump needed servicing and the agents for yacht water makers were of no help but cpi gave me the details of the man here in Malta who does hotels and he did it for me.   However start with Martin and do get a salinity meter so that you do not pump salt water into your tank as even if you are not offshore salt water will destroy your appliances pdq. I do not know your hull no but unless you have a latish SM2K
the so called salinity monitor is non existent. A replacement board with a working monitor can be bought for about $500.
 
                          Enjoy Horta,  Anne and John,  Bali Hai,  SM2K 319   Malta
 
From: Jose
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 9:31 PM
Subject: [Amel] Watermaking
 
 

Background
Ipanema's desalination had been pickled and dormant since I bought her almost 4 years ago. In preparation for our transatlantic passage I had bought a new set of membranes assuming that the ones on board should have certainly been useless. However, after hearing from one of our members, I decided to see if they worked once we put the boat in the water. The boat had been all winter and spring on land at Plymouth's Brewer's Marina being repaired from a substantial, but only cosmetic, damage caused by a loose boat that laid against Impanema during a late October storm while it awaited haul out. So we could only test the system 2 weeks departure while we provisioned the boat at Constitution Marina (Boston). Initially, when I started the desalination, the current drawn by the motor was so excessive that the generator's breaker would stop after a few seconds. Recommended by a tech from Cay electronics, I started it with shore power and IT WORKED making the 35 Gal/hour with the pressure gauge on the middle of the green. Because of the poor quality of water in Boston harbor I only let it run for a few minutes and tasted the water: It was good! Then, we ran the generator and it worked again: we could finally leave last Friday June 21, 2012.
Since I was still a little worried about the desalination, we decided to conserve water and loaded the boat with fresh water, just in case. Well, when I tested the system again, this time 50 miles east of the cape code, the desalination motor started and it made water for about 30 minutes. Then the system stopped and the motor was very hot with the smell of electrical burn. It meant the end of showers for the end of the trip, and a drop in the morale of the crew including me.
Today, Monday June 25, I tried again and … as the motor started the generator began to labor and for the first 2 minutes I thought it was the end of our water making but … miraculously, the generator accelerated and the pump began to purr. I left her without increasing the pressure and monitored its temperature that rached about 65 C. 20 minutes later I increased the high pressure slowly until the flow reached 20 gph and the pressure was still on the orange. One hour later the high pressure motor temperature was still 65 C. We ran it for another hour at 25 gph with only 1 C increase in motor temperature.

The questions are: 1) what happened ? 2) is 65 C too much (It feels hot to touch but does not burn)? 3) is there anything that I should do while underway and after I reach the Azores? 5) any tech at the Azores that can check the system and service it?
Thanks in advance

Jose Gabriel Venegas and crew
Ipanema SM 2K, crossing the atlantic, currently at N40 13 W 60 40.


Re: Desalinator D50 from 1998

kanalmamman@...
 

I had to put the photos on our blog

http://sailinglife.se/2013/11/14/desalinator-d501998-watermaker/

 

Don't answer on the blog, place your answer here on the forum instead. More easy to follow then.

 

/Ann-Sofie

S/Y Lady Annila SM #232

still at the Canary Islands..... 

---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

OK, I thought that kanalmamman looked familiar...I checked my email for kanalmamman"at"hotmail.com and found that it belongs to 
Jonas Svanberg and Ann-Sofie S/Y Lady Annila an Amel Super Maramu,#232 and the last I heard, they were in Spain.

Jonas, if you are still in Spain, there are 5 distributors of Dessalator in Spain. Go to http://www.dessalator.com/ and click on Agents for a list.

Hope this helps,

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387





On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
First, I do not know who you are. 

Second, I do not know your boat model or hull number, nor do I know your current location. 

Third, I paged through all of the photo albums and could not find an album named Desalinator D50 1998. I did look at the album we set up for Dessalator and found no photo there. If you could copy and paste a hyperlink in your message, it will save those trying to help you some time.

We all try to help each other, but we all need to help the helpers by trying to give accurate and complete information.

Now that I have all of that off of my chest, let me see if I can help you.
  1. Dessalator has a fairly good website in 5 languages at http://www.dessalator.com/. If you have not already checked their website, you should do so.
  2. You can ask Dessalator any question directly by clicking on the contact tab on their website, or you might try this link to that page: http://www.dessalator.fr/en/contact/?PHPSESSID=but1skluq01a7aautbg541f2j7
  3. I think you may be referring to salt under the pressure regulator knob. If so, the pressure regulator is probably leaking...this may be a problem, or not...
How the water maker works and the role of the pressure regulator:
The Reverse Osmosis salt water membrane looks like a very thick pipe; as water passes through from the outside of the membrane to the hollow inside, it loses most of the disolved solids (salt).

The pressure regulator causes the increase in pressure in the water at the outside of the membrane by closing off some of the outlet of salt water. The more you close off the outlet, the higher the pressure gets going to the outside of the membrane. Water passes through the membrane from the outside to the inside shedding about 99% of the dissolved solids...these dissolved solids wash off of the outside of the membrane inside pressure tube with other water and it all passes through that pressure regulator. 

Simply stated, the pressure regulator is much like a water tap. When it is wide open, water flows through unobstructed and no significant pressure builds up in the membrane pressure tube. When you start closing the pressure regulator, the flow of the water is restricted and pressure builds on the outside of the membrane forcing water through the membrane (Reverse Osmosis). 

Always turn the pressure regulator completely anti-clockwise when you finish making water, and always  increase and decrease the pressure slowly.

I am not familiar with the D50, but I have seen a Dessalator pressure regulator assembly made out of dissimilar metals which eventually corroded enough to leak on the pressure side. If you have pickled your watermaker each year since 1998, the pickling solution is caustic enough to have deteriorated that pressure regulator valve enough to create a leak.

I would remove the panel from the front or look at the panel from the rear...(again, I do not know what boat you have, but suspect it is a Super Maramu). With the system running and making water, look for leaks.

You can buy parts from Dessalator and repair it yourself, or you can use their website to locate one of their reps.

BTW, I have had a very slight leak at the pressure regulator for 3 or 4 years. When it dries, only the salt is evident.

Hope this helps you and that you will be making water soon.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Fethiye, Turkey










On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, <kanalmamman@...> wrote:
 

Look at the pictures in the Album Desalinator D50 1998.

 

What can that pile of salt-looking thing be that appears under the nob that we use for managing the preassure on the watermaker.

(The pipe you can see to the left, or almost see, is our not-permanent solution for the tap where we test the water quality. It works, it is not nice but better than a tap dripping while we try to get a new one. )




Re: Desalinator D50 from 1998

kanalmamman@...
 

Sorry I was to fast to click on "send"......

 

I am Ann-Sofie on Lady Annila SM232

 

But I have to solv the photo thing because I can't up load to the album. I will come back with an address where you can watch the  pictures.

 

/Ann-Sofie

S/Y LadyAnnila

SM 232

present at the Canary Islands

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
First, I do not know who you are. 

Second, I do not know your boat model or hull number, nor do I know your current location. 

Third, I paged through all of the photo albums and could not find an album named Desalinator D50 1998. I did look at the album we set up for Dessalator and found no photo there. If you could copy and paste a hyperlink in your message, it will save those trying to help you some time.

We all try to help each other, but we all need to help the helpers by trying to give accurate and complete information.

Now that I have all of that off of my chest, let me see if I can help you.
  1. Dessalator has a fairly good website in 5 languages at http://www.dessalator.com/. If you have not already checked their website, you should do so.
  2. You can ask Dessalator any question directly by clicking on the contact tab on their website, or you might try this link to that page: http://www.dessalator.fr/en/contact/?PHPSESSID=but1skluq01a7aautbg541f2j7
  3. I think you may be referring to salt under the pressure regulator knob. If so, the pressure regulator is probably leaking...this may be a problem, or not...
How the water maker works and the role of the pressure regulator:
The Reverse Osmosis salt water membrane looks like a very thick pipe; as water passes through from the outside of the membrane to the hollow inside, it loses most of the disolved solids (salt).

The pressure regulator causes the increase in pressure in the water at the outside of the membrane by closing off some of the outlet of salt water. The more you close off the outlet, the higher the pressure gets going to the outside of the membrane. Water passes through the membrane from the outside to the inside shedding about 99% of the dissolved solids...these dissolved solids wash off of the outside of the membrane inside pressure tube with other water and it all passes through that pressure regulator. 

Simply stated, the pressure regulator is much like a water tap. When it is wide open, water flows through unobstructed and no significant pressure builds up in the membrane pressure tube. When you start closing the pressure regulator, the flow of the water is restricted and pressure builds on the outside of the membrane forcing water through the membrane (Reverse Osmosis). 

Always turn the pressure regulator completely anti-clockwise when you finish making water, and always  increase and decrease the pressure slowly.

I am not familiar with the D50, but I have seen a Dessalator pressure regulator assembly made out of dissimilar metals which eventually corroded enough to leak on the pressure side. If you have pickled your watermaker each year since 1998, the pickling solution is caustic enough to have deteriorated that pressure regulator valve enough to create a leak.

I would remove the panel from the front or look at the panel from the rear...(again, I do not know what boat you have, but suspect it is a Super Maramu). With the system running and making water, look for leaks.

You can buy parts from Dessalator and repair it yourself, or you can use their website to locate one of their reps.

BTW, I have had a very slight leak at the pressure regulator for 3 or 4 years. When it dries, only the salt is evident.

Hope this helps you and that you will be making water soon.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Fethiye, Turkey










On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, <kanalmamman@...> wrote:
 

Look at the pictures in the Album Desalinator D50 1998.

 

What can that pile of salt-looking thing be that appears under the nob that we use for managing the preassure on the watermaker.

(The pipe you can see to the left, or almost see, is our not-permanent solution for the tap where we test the water quality. It works, it is not nice but better than a tap dripping while we try to get a new one. )




Re: [Amel] Desalinator D50 from 1998

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

OK, I thought that kanalmamman looked familiar...I checked my email for kanalmamman"at"hotmail.com and found that it belongs to 
Jonas Svanberg and Ann-Sofie S/Y Lady Annila an Amel Super Maramu,#232 and the last I heard, they were in Spain.

Jonas, if you are still in Spain, there are 5 distributors of Dessalator in Spain. Go to http://www.dessalator.com/ and click on Agents for a list.

Hope this helps,

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387





On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
First, I do not know who you are. 

Second, I do not know your boat model or hull number, nor do I know your current location. 

Third, I paged through all of the photo albums and could not find an album named Desalinator D50 1998. I did look at the album we set up for Dessalator and found no photo there. If you could copy and paste a hyperlink in your message, it will save those trying to help you some time.

We all try to help each other, but we all need to help the helpers by trying to give accurate and complete information.

Now that I have all of that off of my chest, let me see if I can help you.
  1. Dessalator has a fairly good website in 5 languages at http://www.dessalator.com/. If you have not already checked their website, you should do so.
  2. You can ask Dessalator any question directly by clicking on the contact tab on their website, or you might try this link to that page: http://www.dessalator.fr/en/contact/?PHPSESSID=but1skluq01a7aautbg541f2j7
  3. I think you may be referring to salt under the pressure regulator knob. If so, the pressure regulator is probably leaking...this may be a problem, or not...
How the water maker works and the role of the pressure regulator:
The Reverse Osmosis salt water membrane looks like a very thick pipe; as water passes through from the outside of the membrane to the hollow inside, it loses most of the disolved solids (salt).

The pressure regulator causes the increase in pressure in the water at the outside of the membrane by closing off some of the outlet of salt water. The more you close off the outlet, the higher the pressure gets going to the outside of the membrane. Water passes through the membrane from the outside to the inside shedding about 99% of the dissolved solids...these dissolved solids wash off of the outside of the membrane inside pressure tube with other water and it all passes through that pressure regulator. 

Simply stated, the pressure regulator is much like a water tap. When it is wide open, water flows through unobstructed and no significant pressure builds up in the membrane pressure tube. When you start closing the pressure regulator, the flow of the water is restricted and pressure builds on the outside of the membrane forcing water through the membrane (Reverse Osmosis). 

Always turn the pressure regulator completely anti-clockwise when you finish making water, and always  increase and decrease the pressure slowly.

I am not familiar with the D50, but I have seen a Dessalator pressure regulator assembly made out of dissimilar metals which eventually corroded enough to leak on the pressure side. If you have pickled your watermaker each year since 1998, the pickling solution is caustic enough to have deteriorated that pressure regulator valve enough to create a leak.

I would remove the panel from the front or look at the panel from the rear...(again, I do not know what boat you have, but suspect it is a Super Maramu). With the system running and making water, look for leaks.

You can buy parts from Dessalator and repair it yourself, or you can use their website to locate one of their reps.

BTW, I have had a very slight leak at the pressure regulator for 3 or 4 years. When it dries, only the salt is evident.

Hope this helps you and that you will be making water soon.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Fethiye, Turkey










On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, <kanalmamman@...> wrote:
 

Look at the pictures in the Album Desalinator D50 1998.

 

What can that pile of salt-looking thing be that appears under the nob that we use for managing the preassure on the watermaker.

(The pipe you can see to the left, or almost see, is our not-permanent solution for the tap where we test the water quality. It works, it is not nice but better than a tap dripping while we try to get a new one. )




Re: [Amel] Desalinator D50 from 1998

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

First, I do not know who you are. 

Second, I do not know your boat model or hull number, nor do I know your current location. 

Third, I paged through all of the photo albums and could not find an album named Desalinator D50 1998. I did look at the album we set up for Dessalator and found no photo there. If you could copy and paste a hyperlink in your message, it will save those trying to help you some time.

We all try to help each other, but we all need to help the helpers by trying to give accurate and complete information.

Now that I have all of that off of my chest, let me see if I can help you.
  1. Dessalator has a fairly good website in 5 languages at http://www.dessalator.com/. If you have not already checked their website, you should do so.
  2. You can ask Dessalator any question directly by clicking on the contact tab on their website, or you might try this link to that page: http://www.dessalator.fr/en/contact/?PHPSESSID=but1skluq01a7aautbg541f2j7
  3. I think you may be referring to salt under the pressure regulator knob. If so, the pressure regulator is probably leaking...this may be a problem, or not...
How the water maker works and the role of the pressure regulator:
The Reverse Osmosis salt water membrane looks like a very thick pipe; as water passes through from the outside of the membrane to the hollow inside, it loses most of the disolved solids (salt).

The pressure regulator causes the increase in pressure in the water at the outside of the membrane by closing off some of the outlet of salt water. The more you close off the outlet, the higher the pressure gets going to the outside of the membrane. Water passes through the membrane from the outside to the inside shedding about 99% of the dissolved solids...these dissolved solids wash off of the outside of the membrane inside pressure tube with other water and it all passes through that pressure regulator. 

Simply stated, the pressure regulator is much like a water tap. When it is wide open, water flows through unobstructed and no significant pressure builds up in the membrane pressure tube. When you start closing the pressure regulator, the flow of the water is restricted and pressure builds on the outside of the membrane forcing water through the membrane (Reverse Osmosis). 

Always turn the pressure regulator completely anti-clockwise when you finish making water, and always  increase and decrease the pressure slowly.

I am not familiar with the D50, but I have seen a Dessalator pressure regulator assembly made out of dissimilar metals which eventually corroded enough to leak on the pressure side. If you have pickled your watermaker each year since 1998, the pickling solution is caustic enough to have deteriorated that pressure regulator valve enough to create a leak.

I would remove the panel from the front or look at the panel from the rear...(again, I do not know what boat you have, but suspect it is a Super Maramu). With the system running and making water, look for leaks.

You can buy parts from Dessalator and repair it yourself, or you can use their website to locate one of their reps.

BTW, I have had a very slight leak at the pressure regulator for 3 or 4 years. When it dries, only the salt is evident.

Hope this helps you and that you will be making water soon.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Fethiye, Turkey










On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, <kanalmamman@...> wrote:
 

Look at the pictures in the Album Desalinator D50 1998.

 

What can that pile of salt-looking thing be that appears under the nob that we use for managing the preassure on the watermaker.

(The pipe you can see to the left, or almost see, is our not-permanent solution for the tap where we test the water quality. It works, it is not nice but better than a tap dripping while we try to get a new one. )



Desalinator D50 from 1998

kanalmamman@...
 

Look at the pictures in the Album Desalinator D50 1998.

 

What can that pile of salt-looking thing be that appears under the nob that we use for managing the preassure on the watermaker.

(The pipe you can see to the left, or almost see, is our not-permanent solution for the tap where we test the water quality. It works, it is not nice but better than a tap dripping while we try to get a new one. )


Re: [Amel] RE: Dessalinator model D50 50 l/h

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alan, 

I bought the 24V timer and a 24V solenoid water valve on eBay. Both were shipped from China to Turkey at no additional cost...most of the China eBay sellers ship worldwide via China Post at no additional cost to the buyer (included in the sale price). If the invoice cost is low, the item will fly through Customs in the US and Turkey...do not know about other places. The timer looks exactly like the one in the link posted by Derick.

Bill
BeBe


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:30 AM, <divanz620@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill....that's great, where did you get the 24V solenoid valve needed to go inline ???

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437 in Opua, New Zealand 



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:



On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 6:20 PM, <derickgates@...> wrote:
 

 Gary,

 

Thanks for the great explanation of a simple timed fresh water flush system for the Dessalator membranes.  In sending for the timer using your link, I note that it refers to a 24 Volt AC timer.  Can I safely assume that you meant to refer to a 24 Volt DC timer?  Here is the corresponding 24 Volt DC link that I found:

 

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-30/DT-dsh-06-fdsh--24-VOLT-DC/Detail

 

Same price, same functionality, I believe.

 

Derick Gates

Amel SM #400

s/v Brava

Currently on the hard at Bailey's Boatyard in Antigua

As of January 4th, 2013, Sapphire Beach Marina, St. Thomas USVI

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote:

H Jonas:

Regarding the timer flush system that I hooked up: I purchased one of these

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-96/DT-dsh-05-fdsh--24-Volt-AC/Detail

I hope that link will post. If not, just google "24 volt fish feeder timer" or something like that and you will come across some 24 volt 7 day timers. The one mentioned above was about $35.00 US. This one was rated at 16 amps and had an internal battery backup. Since I wasn't exactly sure of the current draw of the fresh water pump on my boat I hooked the output of the timer to a 28 volt relay that was rated at a much higher amperage. I don't have the specification of the relay, but it was about $15.00 US at the local chandlery and its contacts were rated at 50 amps or something li ke that. So the timer controls the relay, that regulates power to the fresh water pump. At any rate, in the area behind the 24 volt breaker panel is a terminal block with a cover for 24 volt power. I wired the timer to this source, I then cut the wire from the breaker for the fresh water pump and wired it through the contacts of the relay. The control coil of the relay is controlled by 24 volt power from the control contacts of the timer (ganged relays). (I will try and post a schematic of this wiring in the Dessalator photos folder). The timer has a switch for "On" or "Timer" mode. When aboard the boat, we place that switch in the ON position and the fresh water pump operates as normal with the pressure switch on the pump functioning as usual. When we leave the boat, we make sure the water tank is full, switch the flush valve on the water maker low pressure pump to the flush position, and set the timer to the TIMER mode. We program the timer to flush for 5 minutes every other or every third day. 5 minutes of flush every third day will use about 500 to 700 liters of fresh water in 6 months. Your results may vary and you should actually time and measure how much flush water will pass through your system by collecting and measuring how much water comes out the thru hull fitting on the port side of the hull. At the programmed time, the timer contacts close sending 24 volts to the relay coil. This causes the relay coil to actuate and the relay contacts close, sending 24 volt power to the fresh water pump, The pump actuates for 5 minutes, sending fresh water thru the water maker system (flushes the low pressure pump, the series of filters, the high pressure pump, the membranes and the plumbing of the control panel). It has worked for 5 years without fail. I have a small portable solar panel that I leave out when off the boat to trickle charge the batteries and this has always kept up with the energy needs of the brief run cycles of the pump.

My only concern was having to leave the main 24 volt power switches on the battery bank in the on position when I leave the boat. I do make sure that every other breaker on the boat is turned off, including (1) the breakers in the engine room, (2) forward cabin, (3) beneath the nav station, (4) in the hanging locker by the nav station, and (5) above the overhead of the quarter berth, (6) all the 24 volt panel breakers except the bilge pump and fresh water pump. A potential failure mode would be if the timer or ganged-relay failed in the "on" position. In that case the pump would actuate until the water tanks were empty and them might continue to run until pump failure or battery depletion. I have toyed with installing some sort of "run-on" sensor that would time out the system and turn it off if the pump ran too long. I just haven't gotten around to that yet.

To flush with the water maker on or off is an interesting discus sion. I have always flushed with the water maker off except when I am flushing the entire sea-chest/manifold system when leaving the boat. In that case I put the hose from shore water source in to the sea-chest and turn the water maker on. I have yet to find a source of water strong enough to keep up with the water maker's need for water. I have to cycle the water maker on and off to prevent it from sucking air from the sea chest. I can see why flushing with the system running would give more through-put of flush water and thus do a more thorough flush, but having the high pressure pump cavitate with air is supposedly damaging to that pump. Perhaps you can keep up with the feed water needs of the lower capacity water maker using shore water to flush but I cannot.

Nice chatting with you Jonas. I will post an alert when I post the schematic of the timer modification in the photo's section.

Sincerely,

Gary Silver
Amel SM #335
s/v Liahona
Sint Maartin Dutch West Indies


--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ann-Sofie Svanberg wrote:
>
>
> Gary,
> thank you for a fact oriented and short answer. I totally share your opinion regarding how to deal with the WM and was not aware of the Sodium meta-bisulfite. Have not used it and will probably not do it either. I am really interested in your automatic rinsing solution, could you please send some additional info regarding this, it will be most appreciated.
> I think I have solved the major question regarding the rinsing, in the Amel manual for this boat it says that the Dessalator unit should be tunred off but in the official info from Dessalator it says that it should be on but without pressure(the D50 has no automatic rinsing function). Doing the rinsing with the unit on gave a much better quality of the produced water than having it off. We now produce water with approx. 250 PTS level(using a Com 100) which I think is ok.
>
> Once again, thank you for a fast and very good answer!
>
> All the best from a cloudy but warm island of Brac, Croatia
>
> Jonas (Svanberg)
> S/Y Lady Annila
> SM # 232
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: Dessalinator model D50 50 l/h

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Bill....that's great, where did you get the 24V solenoid valve needed to go inline ???

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437 in Opua, New Zealand 

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 6:20 PM, <derickgates@...> wrote:
 

 Gary,

 

Thanks for the great explanation of a simple timed fresh water flush system for the Dessalator membranes.  In sending for the timer using your link, I note that it refers to a 24 Volt AC timer.  Can I safely assume that you meant to refer to a 24 Volt DC timer?  Here is the corresponding 24 Volt DC link that I found:

 

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-30/DT-dsh-06-fdsh--24-VOLT-DC/Detail

 

Same price, same functionality, I believe.

 

Derick Gates

Amel SM #400

s/v Brava

Currently on the hard at Bailey's Boatyard in Antigua

As of January 4th, 2013, Sapphire Beach Marina, St. Thomas USVI

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote:

H Jonas:

Regarding the timer flush system that I hooked up: I purchased one of these

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-96/DT-dsh-05-fdsh--24-Volt-AC/Detail

I hope that link will post. If not, just google "24 volt fish feeder timer" or something like that and you will come across some 24 volt 7 day timers. The one mentioned above was about $35.00 US. This one was rated at 16 amps and had an internal battery backup. Since I wasn't exactly sure of the current draw of the fresh water pump on my boat I hooked the output of the timer to a 28 volt relay that was rated at a much higher amperage. I don't have the specification of the relay, but it was about $15.00 US at the local chandlery and its contacts were rated at 50 amps or something li ke that. So the timer controls the relay, that regulates power to the fresh water pump. At any rate, in the area behind the 24 volt breaker panel is a terminal block with a cover for 24 volt power. I wired the timer to this source, I then cut the wire from the breaker for the fresh water pump and wired it through the contacts of the relay. The control coil of the relay is controlled by 24 volt power from the control contacts of the timer (ganged relays). (I will try and post a schematic of this wiring in the Dessalator photos folder). The timer has a switch for "On" or "Timer" mode. When aboard the boat, we place that switch in the ON position and the fresh water pump operates as normal with the pressure switch on the pump functioning as usual. When we leave the boat, we make sure the water tank is full, switch the flush valve on the water maker low pressure pump to the flush position, and set the timer to the TIMER mode. We program the timer to flush for 5 minutes every other or every third day. 5 minutes of flush every third day will use about 500 to 700 liters of fresh water in 6 months. Your results may vary and you should actually time and measure how much flush water will pass through your system by collecting and measuring how much water comes out the thru hull fitting on the port side of the hull. At the programmed time, the timer contacts close sending 24 volts to the relay coil. This causes the relay coil to actuate and the relay contacts close, sending 24 volt power to the fresh water pump, The pump actuates for 5 minutes, sending fresh water thru the water maker system (flushes the low pressure pump, the series of filters, the high pressure pump, the membranes and the plumbing of the control panel). It has worked for 5 years without fail. I have a small portable solar panel that I leave out when off the boat to trickle charge the batteries and this has always kept up with the energy needs of the brief run cycles of the pump.

My only concern was having to leave the main 24 volt power switches on the battery bank in the on position when I leave the boat. I do make sure that every other breaker on the boat is turned off, including (1) the breakers in the engine room, (2) forward cabin, (3) beneath the nav station, (4) in the hanging locker by the nav station, and (5) above the overhead of the quarter berth, (6) all the 24 volt panel breakers except the bilge pump and fresh water pump. A potential failure mode would be if the timer or ganged-relay failed in the "on" position. In that case the pump would actuate until the water tanks were empty and them might continue to run until pump failure or battery depletion. I have toyed with installing some sort of "run-on" sensor that would time out the system and turn it off if the pump ran too long. I just haven't gotten around to that yet.

To flush with the water maker on or off is an interesting discus sion. I have always flushed with the water maker off except when I am flushing the entire sea-chest/manifold system when leaving the boat. In that case I put the hose from shore water source in to the sea-chest and turn the water maker on. I have yet to find a source of water strong enough to keep up with the water maker's need for water. I have to cycle the water maker on and off to prevent it from sucking air from the sea chest. I can see why flushing with the system running would give more through-put of flush water and thus do a more thorough flush, but having the high pressure pump cavitate with air is supposedly damaging to that pump. Perhaps you can keep up with the feed water needs of the lower capacity water maker using shore water to flush but I cannot.

Nice chatting with you Jonas. I will post an alert when I post the schematic of the timer modification in the photo's section.

Sincerely,

Gary Silver
Amel SM #335
s/v Liahona
Sint Maartin Dutch West Indies


--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gary,
> thank you for a fact oriented and short answer. I totally share your opinion regarding how to deal with the WM and was not aware of the Sodium meta-bisulfite. Have not used it and will probably not do it either. I am really interested in your automatic rinsing solution, could you please send some additional info regarding this, it will be most appreciated.
> I think I have solved the major question regarding the rinsing, in the Amel manual for this boat it says that the Dessalator unit should be tunred off but in the official info from Dessalator it says that it should be on but without pressure(the D50 has no automatic rinsing function). Doing the rinsing with the unit on gave a much better quality of the produced water than having it off. We now produce water with approx. 250 PTS level(using a Com 100) which I think is ok.
>
> Once again, thank you for a fast and very good answer!
>
> All the best from a cloudy but warm island of Brac, Croatia
>
> Jonas (Svanberg)
> S/Y Lady Annila
> SM # 232
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Re: [Amel] Re: Dessalinator model D50 50 l/h

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 


On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 6:20 PM, <derickgates@...> wrote:
 

 Gary,

 

Thanks for the great explanation of a simple timed fresh water flush system for the Dessalator membranes.  In sending for the timer using your link, I note that it refers to a 24 Volt AC timer.  Can I safely assume that you meant to refer to a 24 Volt DC timer?  Here is the corresponding 24 Volt DC link that I found:

 

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-30/DT-dsh-06-fdsh--24-VOLT-DC/Detail

 

Same price, same functionality, I believe.

 

Derick Gates

Amel SM #400

s/v Brava

Currently on the hard at Bailey's Boatyard in Antigua

As of January 4th, 2013, Sapphire Beach Marina, St. Thomas USVI

 



---In amelyachtowners@..., <no_reply@...> wrote:

H Jonas:

Regarding the timer flush system that I hooked up: I purchased one of these

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-96/DT-dsh-05-fdsh--24-Volt-AC/Detail

I hope that link will post. If not, just google "24 volt fish feeder timer" or something like that and you will come across some 24 volt 7 day timers. The one mentioned above was about $35.00 US. This one was rated at 16 amps and had an internal battery backup. Since I wasn't exactly sure of the current draw of the fresh water pump on my boat I hooked the output of the timer to a 28 volt relay that was rated at a much higher amperage. I don't have the specification of the relay, but it was about $15.00 US at the local chandlery and its contacts were rated at 50 amps or something li ke that. So the timer controls the relay, that regulates power to the fresh water pump. At any rate, in the area behind the 24 volt breaker panel is a terminal block with a cover for 24 volt power. I wired the timer to this source, I then cut the wire from the breaker for the fresh water pump and wired it through the contacts of the relay. The control coil of the relay is controlled by 24 volt power from the control contacts of the timer (ganged relays). (I will try and post a schematic of this wiring in the Dessalator photos folder). The timer has a switch for "On" or "Timer" mode. When aboard the boat, we place that switch in the ON position and the fresh water pump operates as normal with the pressure switch on the pump functioning as usual. When we leave the boat, we make sure the water tank is full, switch the flush valve on the water maker low pressure pump to the flush position, and set the timer to the TIMER mode. We program the timer to flush for 5 minutes every other or every third day. 5 minutes of flush every third day will use about 500 to 700 liters of fresh water in 6 months. Your results may vary and you should actually time and measure how much flush water will pass through your system by collecting and measuring how much water comes out the thru hull fitting on the port side of the hull. At the programmed time, the timer contacts close sending 24 volts to the relay coil. This causes the relay coil to actuate and the relay contacts close, sending 24 volt power to the fresh water pump, The pump actuates for 5 minutes, sending fresh water thru the water maker system (flushes the low pressure pump, the series of filters, the high pressure pump, the membranes and the plumbing of the control panel). It has worked for 5 years without fail. I have a small portable solar panel that I leave out when off the boat to trickle charge the batteries and this has always kept up with the energy needs of the brief run cycles of the pump.

My only concern was having to leave the main 24 volt power switches on the battery bank in the on position when I leave the boat. I do make sure that every other breaker on the boat is turned off, including (1) the breakers in the engine room, (2) forward cabin, (3) beneath the nav station, (4) in the hanging locker by the nav station, and (5) above the overhead of the quarter berth, (6) all the 24 volt panel breakers except the bilge pump and fresh water pump. A potential failure mode would be if the timer or ganged-relay failed in the "on" position. In that case the pump would actuate until the water tanks were empty and them might continue to run until pump failure or battery depletion. I have toyed with installing some sort of "run-on" sensor that would time out the system and turn it off if the pump ran too long. I just haven't gotten around to that yet.

To flush with the water maker on or off is an interesting discus sion. I have always flushed with the water maker off except when I am flushing the entire sea-chest/manifold system when leaving the boat. In that case I put the hose from shore water source in to the sea-chest and turn the water maker on. I have yet to find a source of water strong enough to keep up with the water maker's need for water. I have to cycle the water maker on and off to prevent it from sucking air from the sea chest. I can see why flushing with the system running would give more through-put of flush water and thus do a more thorough flush, but having the high pressure pump cavitate with air is supposedly damaging to that pump. Perhaps you can keep up with the feed water needs of the lower capacity water maker using shore water to flush but I cannot.

Nice chatting with you Jonas. I will post an alert when I post the schematic of the timer modification in the photo's section.

Sincerely,

Gary Silver
Amel SM #335
s/v Liahona
Sint Maartin Dutch West Indies


--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ann-Sofie Svanberg wrote:
>
>
> Gary,
> thank you for a fact oriented and short answer. I totally share your opinion regarding how to deal with the WM and was not aware of the Sodium meta-bisulfite. Have not used it and will probably not do it either. I am really interested in your automatic rinsing solution, could you please send some additional info regarding this, it will be most appreciated.
> I think I have solved the major question regarding the rinsing, in the Amel manual for this boat it says that the Dessalator unit should be tunred off but in the official info from Dessalator it says that it should be on but without pressure(the D50 has no automatic rinsing function). Doing the rinsing with the unit on gave a much better quality of the produced water than having it off. We now produce water with approx. 250 PTS level(using a Com 100) which I think is ok.
>
> Once again, thank you for a fast and very good answer!
>
> All the best from a cloudy but warm island of Brac, Croatia
>
> Jonas (Svanberg)
> S/Y Lady Annila
> SM # 232
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Re: [Amel] Re: Dessalinator model D50 50 l/h

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

 Gary,

 

Thanks for the great explanation of a simple timed fresh water flush system for the Dessalator membranes.  In sending for the timer using your link, I note that it refers to a 24 Volt AC timer.  Can I safely assume that you meant to refer to a 24 Volt DC timer?  Here is the corresponding 24 Volt DC link that I found:

 

http://prostores1.carrierzone.com/servlet/super-feed_com/-strse-30/DT-dsh-06-fdsh--24-VOLT-DC/Detail

 

Same price, same functionality, I believe.

 

Derick Gates

Amel SM #400

s/v Brava

Currently on the hard at Bailey's Boatyard in Antigua

As of January 4th, 2013, Sapphire Beach Marina, St. Thomas USVI

 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gary,
> thank you for a fact oriented and short answer. I totally share your opinion regarding how to deal with the WM and was not aware of the Sodium meta-bisulfite. Have not used it and will probably not do it either. I am really interested in your automatic rinsing solution, could you please send some additional info regarding this, it will be most appreciated.
> I think I have solved the major question regarding the rinsing, in the Amel manual for this boat it says that the Dessalator unit should be tunred off but in the official info from Dessalator it says that it should be on but without pressure(the D50 has no automatic rinsing function). Doing the rinsing with the unit on gave a much better quality of the produced water than having it off. We now produce water with approx. 250 PTS level(using a Com 100) which I think is ok.
>
> Once again, thank you for a fast and very good answer!
>
> All the best from a cloudy but warm island of Brac, Croatia
>
> Jonas (Svanberg)
> S/Y Lady Annila
> SM # 232
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

Richard, Thursday is good, give me a call at home by 8 am. 410-348-2388  and let me know when and I'll tell you how to get here from 301. Its going to be 26 degrees tomorrow morning, but Thursday looks sunny and warmer.  Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Nov 11, 2013 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
How about this Thurs. ?

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 11, 2013, at 17:29, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
Richard, I always run all my water through a charcoal filter from the tank. What is in the lines takes a lot of flushing to get rid of the awful taste. Nice to talk to you last week and Great Water a Dessalator dealer treats and winterizes as you suggested, just the pink stuff, no chemicals. Next time travelling north from Annapolis come up Rt. 301 and stop by ,only 5 miles off 301.
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                                                                   Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Nov 11, 2013 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Hi Pat to clean up the taste issues charcoal filter between your tank and fresh water pump taste issues should go away. And in the spring flush flush and flush some more and you'll have good water 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:13, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I just spoke with a Dessalator dealer up in New England about winterizing the watermaker, and they said all they do, is run potable, pink antifreeze through the watermakers and its good for several months. They do not use the chemicals because its " bad stuff". I have been using it for years in the water systems and it leaves an unpleasant taste/odor and requires massive flushing in the spring to rid the system of odor and bad taste.
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; nbsp;                          Pat
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; nbsp;              Shenanigans Sassafras River Md.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,

I know little about prepping for a winter freeze, but I would think that the small amount of Sodium Metabisulfite used with fresh water would not keep the solution from freezing.

This is what Dessalator says:

How to winterize your watermaker:

Several solutions are possible:

  1. If someone regularly comes on board, rinsing with the three-way valve on the pre pump will be sufficient; this should be carried out while the watermaker is idle.
  2. For extended periods (5 to 6 months) of storage, we have developed a sterilizing cartridge (see the page sterilizing cartridge).
  3. FREEZING CONDITIONS: If the boat stays in a very cold region, please take a bucket containing 8 litres of warm fresh water mixed with one glycerine litre (you will find it in a drugstore) and let the seawater inlet hose suck up the mixture by starting the watermaker without pressure. You should then empty the flow meter tube on the control panel by blowing into the blue hose connected to the membranes. In normal winter conditions, only empty the flow meter tube and use the sterilizing cartridge ST2.
I bought a 24 volt timer and a 24 volt valve that I plan to install to rinse the membranes when I am away for longer than 1 month.

Other than that, I am not able to help.

Bill
BeBe


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:
 
Bill, Thanks for the info. I do not to use something caustic if I can help it. Is there any alternative, something not caustic ? I have to pickle it as it will be below freezing here soon and I need to pump the water out and winterize the plumbing including the membranes.
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; amp; nbsp;                                                     Thanks Much,
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; amp; nbsp;                                                          Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:03 am
Subject: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,


4 pound package for less than $20: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281001169092?lpid=82

There are a number of us that do not recommend using Sodium Metabisulfite because it is very caustic.

The last time I checked the Dessalator website I believe that they were recommending rinsing with fresh water unless you were going to be absent for 6 months.

Hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Richard, I' am not looking for a site to tell me how to pickle, but for a good source of chemicals to pickle. Someone not long ago mentioned somewhere that membranes and chemicals could be purchased at a reasonable price. Good to see you at the boat show. Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] Pickling watermaker

 
Pat Google pickle water makers or Little wonder and you'll find how to pickle and winterize. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 5, 2013, at 8:31, <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I could not access the old messages on this new site format. I remember someone posted a good and reasonable source to buy chemicals to pickle the membranes, Could someone remind me of the name of source in the U.S. I too, as others have posted, would be willing to contribute towards the development of a better website for this group.
                                                                                     Thanks,
              ;                                                                Pat McAneny
                                                                          SM Shenanigans
                     &nbs p;                                                   Sassafras River, MD.


Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

How about this Thurs. ?

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 11, 2013, at 17:29, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:

 

Richard, I always run all my water through a charcoal filter from the tank. What is in the lines takes a lot of flushing to get rid of the awful taste. Nice to talk to you last week and Great Water a Dessalator dealer treats and winterizes as you suggested, just the pink stuff, no chemicals. Next time travelling north from Annapolis come up Rt. 301 and stop by ,only 5 miles off 301.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Nov 11, 2013 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Hi Pat to clean up the taste issues charcoal filter between your tank and fresh water pump taste issues should go away. And in the spring flush flush and flush some more and you'll have good water 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:13, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I just spoke with a Dessalator dealer up in New England about winterizing the watermaker, and they said all they do, is run potable, pink antifreeze through the watermakers and its good for several months. They do not use the chemicals because its " bad stuff". I have been using it for years in the water systems and it leaves an unpleasant taste/odor and requires massive flushing in the spring to rid the system of odor and bad taste.
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                          Pat
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;              Shenanigans Sassafras River Md.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,

I know little about prepping for a winter freeze, but I would think that the small amount of Sodium Metabisulfite used with fresh water would not keep the solution from freezing.

This is what Dessalator says:

How to winterize your watermaker:

Several solutions are possible:

  1. If someone regularly comes on board, rinsing with the three-way valve on the pre pump will be sufficient; this should be carried out while the watermaker is idle.
  2. For extended periods (5 to 6 months) of storage, we have developed a sterilizing cartridge (see the page sterilizing cartridge).
  3. FREEZING CONDITIONS: If the boat stays in a very cold region, please take a bucket containing 8 litres of warm fresh water mixed with one glycerine litre (you will find it in a drugstore) and let the seawater inlet hose suck up the mixture by starting the watermaker without pressure. You should then empty the flow meter tube on the control panel by blowing into the blue hose connected to the membranes. In normal winter conditions, only empty the flow meter tube and use the sterilizing cartridge ST2.
I bought a 24 volt timer and a 24 volt valve that I plan to install to rinse the membranes when I am away for longer than 1 month.

Other than that, I am not able to help.

Bill
BeBe


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:
 
Bill, Thanks for the info. I do not to use something caustic if I can help it. Is there any alternative, something not caustic ? I have to pickle it as it will be below freezing here soon and I need to pump the water out and winterize the plumbing including the membranes.
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; nbsp;                                                     Thanks Much,
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; nbsp;                                                          Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:03 am
Subject: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,


4 pound package for less than $20: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281001169092?lpid=82

There are a number of us that do not recommend using Sodium Metabisulfite because it is very caustic.

The last time I checked the Dessalator website I believe that they were recommending rinsing with fresh water unless you were going to be absent for 6 months.

Hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Richard, I' am not looking for a site to tell me how to pickle, but for a good source of chemicals to pickle. Someone not long ago mentioned somewhere that membranes and chemicals could be purchased at a reasonable price. Good to see you at the boat show. Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] Pickling watermaker

 
Pat Google pickle water makers or Little wonder and you'll find how to pickle and winterize. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 5, 2013, at 8:31, <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I could not access the old messages on this new site format. I remember someone posted a good and reasonable source to buy chemicals to pickle the membranes, Could someone remind me of the name of source in the U.S. I too, as others have posted, would be willing to contribute towards the development of a better website for this group.
                                                                                     Thanks,
              ;                                                                Pat McAneny
                                                                          SM Shenanigans
                     &nbs p;                                                   Sassafras River, MD.


Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

Richard, I always run all my water through a charcoal filter from the tank. What is in the lines takes a lot of flushing to get rid of the awful taste. Nice to talk to you last week and Great Water a Dessalator dealer treats and winterizes as you suggested, just the pink stuff, no chemicals. Next time travelling north from Annapolis come up Rt. 301 and stop by ,only 5 miles off 301.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Mon, Nov 11, 2013 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Hi Pat to clean up the taste issues charcoal filter between your tank and fresh water pump taste issues should go away. And in the spring flush flush and flush some more and you'll have good water 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:13, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I just spoke with a Dessalator dealer up in New England about winterizing the watermaker, and they said all they do, is run potable, pink antifreeze through the watermakers and its good for several months. They do not use the chemicals because its " bad stuff". I have been using it for years in the water systems and it leaves an unpleasant taste/odor and requires massive flushing in the spring to rid the system of odor and bad taste.
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                          Pat
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;              Shenanigans Sassafras River Md.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,

I know little about prepping for a winter freeze, but I would think that the small amount of Sodium Metabisulfite used with fresh water would not keep the solution from freezing.

This is what Dessalator says:

How to winterize your watermaker:

Several solutions are possible:

  1. If someone regularly comes on board, rinsing with the three-way valve on the pre pump will be sufficient; this should be carried out while the watermaker is idle.
  2. For extended periods (5 to 6 months) of storage, we have developed a sterilizing cartridge (see the page sterilizing cartridge).
  3. FREEZING CONDITIONS: If the boat stays in a very cold region, please take a bucket containing 8 litres of warm fresh water mixed with one glycerine litre (you will find it in a drugstore) and let the seawater inlet hose suck up the mixture by starting the watermaker without pressure. You should then empty the flow meter tube on the control panel by blowing into the blue hose connected to the membranes. In normal winter conditions, only empty the flow meter tube and use the sterilizing cartridge ST2.
I bought a 24 volt timer and a 24 volt valve that I plan to install to rinse the membranes when I am away for longer than 1 month.

Other than that, I am not able to help.

Bill
BeBe


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:
 
Bill, Thanks for the info. I do not to use something caustic if I can help it. Is there any alternative, something not caustic ? I have to pickle it as it will be below freezing here soon and I need to pump the water out and winterize the plumbing including the membranes.
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; nbsp;                                                     Thanks Much,
                                                                                                                                                                    & amp; nbsp;                                                          Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:03 am
Subject: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,


4 pound package for less than $20: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281001169092?lpid=82

There are a number of us that do not recommend using Sodium Metabisulfite because it is very caustic.

The last time I checked the Dessalator website I believe that they were recommending rinsing with fresh water unless you were going to be absent for 6 months.

Hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Richard, I' am not looking for a site to tell me how to pickle, but for a good source of chemicals to pickle. Someone not long ago mentioned somewhere that membranes and chemicals could be purchased at a reasonable price. Good to see you at the boat show. Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] Pickling watermaker

 
Pat Google pickle water makers or Little wonder and you'll find how to pickle and winterize. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 5, 2013, at 8:31, <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I could not access the old messages on this new site format. I remember someone posted a good and reasonable source to buy chemicals to pickle the membranes, Could someone remind me of the name of source in the U.S. I too, as others have posted, would be willing to contribute towards the development of a better website for this group.
                                                                                     Thanks,
              ;                                                                Pat McAneny
                                                                          SM Shenanigans
                     &nbs p;                                                   Sassafras River, MD.


Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Pat to clean up the taste issues charcoal filter between your tank and fresh water pump taste issues should go away. And in the spring flush flush and flush some more and you'll have good water 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:13, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:

 

I just spoke with a Dessalator dealer up in New England about winterizing the watermaker, and they said all they do, is run potable, pink antifreeze through the watermakers and its good for several months. They do not use the chemicals because its " bad stuff". I have been using it for years in the water systems and it leaves an unpleasant taste/odor and requires massive flushing in the spring to rid the system of odor and bad taste.
                                                                                                                                                                                               Pat
                                                                                                                                                                                   Shenanigans Sassafras River Md.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,

I know little about prepping for a winter freeze, but I would think that the small amount of Sodium Metabisulfite used with fresh water would not keep the solution from freezing.

This is what Dessalator says:

How to winterize your watermaker:

Several solutions are possible:

  1. If someone regularly comes on board, rinsing with the three-way valve on the pre pump will be sufficient; this should be carried out while the watermaker is idle.
  2. For extended periods (5 to 6 months) of storage, we have developed a sterilizing cartridge (see the page sterilizing cartridge).
  3. FREEZING CONDITIONS: If the boat stays in a very cold region, please take a bucket containing 8 litres of warm fresh water mixed with one glycerine litre (you will find it in a drugstore) and let the seawater inlet hose suck up the mixture by starting the watermaker without pressure. You should then empty the flow meter tube on the control panel by blowing into the blue hose connected to the membranes. In normal winter conditions, only empty the flow meter tube and use the sterilizing cartridge ST2.
I bought a 24 volt timer and a 24 volt valve that I plan to install to rinse the membranes when I am away for longer than 1 month.

Other than that, I am not able to help.

Bill
BeBe


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:
 
Bill, Thanks for the info. I do not to use something caustic if I can help it. Is there any alternative, something not caustic ? I have to pickle it as it will be below freezing here soon and I need to pump the water out and winterize the plumbing including the membranes.
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                                                     Thanks Much,
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                                                          Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:03 am
Subject: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,


4 pound package for less than $20: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281001169092?lpid=82

There are a number of us that do not recommend using Sodium Metabisulfite because it is very caustic.

The last time I checked the Dessalator website I believe that they were recommending rinsing with fresh water unless you were going to be absent for 6 months.

Hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Richard, I' am not looking for a site to tell me how to pickle, but for a good source of chemicals to pickle. Someone not long ago mentioned somewhere that membranes and chemicals could be purchased at a reasonable price. Good to see you at the boat show. Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] Pickling watermaker

 
Pat Google pickle water makers or Little wonder and you'll find how to pickle and winterize. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 5, 2013, at 8:31, <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I could not access the old messages on this new site format. I remember someone posted a good and reasonable source to buy chemicals to pickle the membranes, Could someone remind me of the name of source in the U.S. I too, as others have posted, would be willing to contribute towards the development of a better website for this group.
                                                                                     Thanks,
              ;                                                                Pat McAneny
                                                                          SM Shenanigans
                     &nbs p;                                                   Sassafras River, MD.


Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

Patrick McAneny
 

I just spoke with a Dessalator dealer up in New England about winterizing the watermaker, and they said all they do, is run potable, pink antifreeze through the watermakers and its good for several months. They do not use the chemicals because its " bad stuff". I have been using it for years in the water systems and it leaves an unpleasant taste/odor and requires massive flushing in the spring to rid the system of odor and bad taste.
                                                                                                                                                                                               Pat
                                                                                                                                                                                   Shenanigans Sassafras River Md.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill & Judy Rouse
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,

I know little about prepping for a winter freeze, but I would think that the small amount of Sodium Metabisulfite used with fresh water would not keep the solution from freezing.

This is what Dessalator says:

How to winterize your watermaker:

Several solutions are possible:

  1. If someone regularly comes on board, rinsing with the three-way valve on the pre pump will be sufficient; this should be carried out while the watermaker is idle.
  2. For extended periods (5 to 6 months) of storage, we have developed a sterilizing cartridge (see the page sterilizing cartridge).
  3. FREEZING CONDITIONS: If the boat stays in a very cold region, please take a bucket containing 8 litres of warm fresh water mixed with one glycerine litre (you will find it in a drugstore) and let the seawater inlet hose suck up the mixture by starting the watermaker without pressure. You should then empty the flow meter tube on the control panel by blowing into the blue hose connected to the membranes. In normal winter conditions, only empty the flow meter tube and use the sterilizing cartridge ST2.
I bought a 24 volt timer and a 24 volt valve that I plan to install to rinse the membranes when I am away for longer than 1 month.

Other than that, I am not able to help.

Bill
BeBe


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Patrick Mcaneny <sailw32@...> wrote:
 
Bill, Thanks for the info. I do not to use something caustic if I can help it. Is there any alternative, something not caustic ? I have to pickle it as it will be below freezing here soon and I need to pump the water out and winterize the plumbing including the membranes.
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                                                     Thanks Much,
                                                                                                                                                                    & nbsp;                                                          Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups <yahoogroups@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:03 am
Subject: [Amel] RE: Pickling watermaker

 
Pat,


4 pound package for less than $20: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281001169092?lpid=82

There are a number of us that do not recommend using Sodium Metabisulfite because it is very caustic.

The last time I checked the Dessalator website I believe that they were recommending rinsing with fresh water unless you were going to be absent for 6 months.

Hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Richard, I' am not looking for a site to tell me how to pickle, but for a good source of chemicals to pickle. Someone not long ago mentioned somewhere that membranes and chemicals could be purchased at a reasonable price. Good to see you at the boat show. Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 10:42 am
Subject: Re: [Amel] Pickling watermaker

 
Pat Google pickle water makers or Little wonder and you'll find how to pickle and winterize. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 5, 2013, at 8:31, <sailw32@...> wrote:

 
I could not access the old messages on this new site format. I remember someone posted a good and reasonable source to buy chemicals to pickle the membranes, Could someone remind me of the name of source in the U.S. I too, as others have posted, would be willing to contribute towards the development of a better website for this group.
                                                                                     Thanks,
              ;                                                                Pat McAneny
                                                                          SM Shenanigans
                     &nbs p;                                                   Sassafras River, MD.


Re: [Amel] RE: MAin outhaul line

karkauai
 

I don't remember the exact lost retch line I bought, but it was too slippery at first.  At someone's suggestion(I think it was John and Ruth on Moon Dog) I sprayed it with 3M contact cement.  It worked fine and by the time the cement had worn off the line had weathered enough to hold on its own.
Kent SM 243 Kristy



On Nov 11, 2013, at 3:06 AM, Chris Smither <yachtakwaaba@...> wrote:

 

Hi,
On our Santorin we found spectra had 10 per cent stretch and was too slippy.  We replaced it with one of our older spare ropes. No worries now!

Mike , SV Akwaaba 027 santorin sloop


On 11 Nov 2013, at 07:58, <divanz620@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Bill,

My thoughts exactly...good to have confirmation

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437 



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Yes, I have, and used the wrong kind of line before switching to low-stretch line.

Also, it needs to be very tight...even the low stretch will stretch, so take this into consideration when rigging. I forgot exactly how I did it, but I used the outhaul motor to tighten the line while installing it. When you are installing, either use the outhaul to tighten or rig some blocks/line and use one of the mast winches to tighten.

Hope this helps,

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:25 AM, <divanz620@...> wrote:
 

We've had some issues with the outhaul line on the main boom...it stretches and sometimes gets jammed in the boom motor pulley and it won't wind out or in.

I've shortened it, re tied it..but it still happens.

I'm thinking of changing the line to low stretch Spectra to try to solve this issue.

anyone else have this experience ?  solutions ??

Cheers

Alan

S.V.Elyse SM437...in Opua, New Zealand  



Re: MAin outhaul line

Craig Briggs
 

Last time we were through LaRochelle I got replacement line from Amel for all the runs (outhaul, traveller, and jib cars).  It was a three layer line with parallel core Kevlar surrounded by two woven layers.  I don'r recall exactly what they charged, but it was oddly inexpensive for Amel.  Had also tried Spectra with poor results, the Amel supplied line is excellent, although you do need to tension it a lot. 

Good luck with it,

Craig

SN #68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote:

Thanks Colin...that's good to know...and also others that have commented.

I'm going to the gold plated shop tomorrow and buy a length of Spectra and see how it goes.

I think the outhaul line is probably the original...but it sure has stretched a lot...even in the last two weeks 

 

And also, Colin, thanks again for the SSB installation info, we have ours in the same place as yours but the triatic stay antenna doesn't work well...the coax going up the mizzen is the problem....I've got a temporary wire going out the small hatch in the cockpit and onto the main backstay...works a treat, but need to warn the crew to stay away from it when xmting!!

Will get insulators put in that stay soon...and will repost so its searchable.

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM, <divanz620@...> wrote:
 

We've had some issues with the outhaul line on the main boom...it stretches and sometimes gets jammed in the boom motor pulley and it won't wind out or in.

I've shortened it, re tied it..but it still happens.

I'm thinking of changing the line to low stretch Spectra to try to solve this issue.

anyone else have this experience ?  solutions ??

Cheers

Alan

S.V.Elyse SM437...in Opua, New Zealand  




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel] RE: Watertight, my foot!

Ian Shepherd
 

Later SM's have a water tight housing for the improved bow thruster with a drain to the engine room bilge to get rid of seepage past the seals. There is thus never water under the floor by the forward heads.

On my first SM this was not so and I experienced the same problems that Alexandre and others have experienced. I did however cure that problem without the use of pumps. In a Home Depot store in the USA I found a 4.5" to 5" rubber boot that is used to convert from one pipe size to the other. I fitted the 5" end to the raised section of the bow thruster box with sealant and a jubilee clamp. The top of the 4.5" section had to be cut down a bit to allow the motor to bottom out when lowered. I drilled holes on the port and starboard side of the rubber boot, fitted nylon right angled hose connectors and joined them to a nylon Y-Connector with suitable polythene tubing. The bottom of the Y was connected to a barbed connector that I brazed over a hole drilled into the chain locker shut off valve assembly. From that day on, the underfloor area was completely dry. (The dimensions of the rubber boot are from memory so best measure up first).

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus

On 11/11/2013 07:22, divanz620@... wrote:
 

 

Sorry for the late reply Kent / Bill...we've been at sea for the last week...great trip by the way...Noumea to Opua.

 

YES that's exactly what happens.....going to windward in heavy seas on st'bd tack is when we see it, so it must be coming from the chain locker....that's why I'm going to put an extra valve in the drain from the fwd head...ie the head will be isolated but the chain locker can still drain into the sump.

 

thanks for your input

 

Cheers

Alan

S.V.Elyse SM437



---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Joel accurately described the factors behind the failure of the ‘watertight’ bulkhead between the forward accommodation and the saloon: whether owing to builder oversight, modification or age, the space between the conduit trunking and the pipes taking water for heads, a/c and anchor wash is not filled.  In our case this is visible from forward under the lower shelf beneath the holding tank.

 

We were made aware of the issue only because we a) had failed to check the tightness of the bowthruster cables, b) were heeled to port at 20-30 degrees for 48 hours as we crossed the Bay of Biscay fine reaching on starboard in 25-35kt winds and a biggish sea c) slamming frequently.  a) and c) meant the bowthruster leaked prodigiously and b) that the collected water crossed the watertight bulkhead through the pipe trunkings.  It became visible in the central stowage (saloon and forward cabin) only when the boat came upright on arrival in Gijon. 

 

I suppose that the purpose of this site is for us to learn from one another’s experiences.  In this case people with boats answering Joel’s description should probably check their bulkheads.  Like Mahili, we fixed the problem – we used closed cell foam.  And check your bowthruster before making a big trip!

 

Fair winds

Anne and Keith

SM2K 261

 


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

I'm guessing that water from the chain locker may  find its way into the forward shower well when heeled to port if all valves are open and there is significant water in the chain locker.  Is that the issue?
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:15 AM, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

 
Wow, Alan, I have never, ever, experienced that. Possibly I do not understand your use of the word "waste" from the "forward head drain." I understand that to mean GRAY water from the shower and sink. That water should have already passed through a hose that runs slightly downhill from the forward head drain to the sump. I cannot imagine how this is happening to you, unless that drain hose has been moved from its original position, or your bow is down about 25-30cm. Is the drain hose in the bottom of each saloon locker? 

You might try pouring 1-2 liter of colored water into the shower drain and have someone watch at the sump to see if it drains and it is colored. Possibly there is an obstruction in the hose.

Please explain further...I am always a little slow on understanding something new.

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387


On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 11:50 AM, <divanz620@...> wrote:
 

Seems to me that it could be the drain in the forward head....When one is on starboard tack, the waste from the fwd head drain can flood the fwd head .. I have a wooden plug to plug the fwd head drain so it doesn't flood the head...BUT, it's a bitch to get out.

I'm going to (next trip) change the plumbing a bit and add a valve under the floor out side the fwd head so I can shut the fwd head drain off, but re-plumb the anchor locker drain T after the valve so its still clear.

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote:

Has anyone else had to test how watertight their front cabin was as water came in at first unnoticed via the bow thruster?
Apparently the water entered continued it's way into the saloon (we were heeling to po rt, on starboard tack) via the housings for the seawater pipes for toilet, chain washer and clim. Flooding our under the floorboards storage.
Are we missing something there or watertight compartment means something else in French?



Re: [Amel] chain counter

Ian Shepherd
 

Eric,

I too had a problem with the sensor which showed by counting up on a hot sunny day. Trouble shooting was not productive but replacing the sensor cured the problem completely. I obtained an IB5076 from Pochon La Rochelle, but about 5 years ago. Bill has the later model sensor which we can only hope is more reliable.

Good luck

Ian Shepherd SM 414 Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus

On 10/11/2013 19:57, eric wrote:
 

i recall some discussions about troubleshooting/ replacement of the chain counter. but I could not find it.
my display in the cockpit is lit but the counter does not work.
Where do i go from here?
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 kimberlite
 
 


Re: MAin outhaul line

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Colin...that's good to know...and also others that have commented.

I'm going to the gold plated shop tomorrow and buy a length of Spectra and see how it goes.

I think the outhaul line is probably the original...but it sure has stretched a lot...even in the last two weeks 

 

And also, Colin, thanks again for the SSB installation info, we have ours in the same place as yours but the triatic stay antenna doesn't work well...the coax going up the mizzen is the problem....I've got a temporary wire going out the small hatch in the cockpit and onto the main backstay...works a treat, but need to warn the crew to stay away from it when xmting!!

Will get insulators put in that stay soon...and will repost so its searchable.

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM, <divanz620@...> wrote:
 

We've had some issues with the outhaul line on the main boom...it stretches and sometimes gets jammed in the boom motor pulley and it won't wind out or in.

I've shortened it, re tied it..but it still happens.

I'm thinking of changing the line to low stretch Spectra to try to solve this issue.

anyone else have this experience ?  solutions ??

Cheers

Alan

S.V.Elyse SM437...in Opua, New Zealand  




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445