Date   

Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Captain Pillar,

Respectfully submitted for your review:

The specs for the Sailor N420 24-12 Converter are:
Input Voltage 21.6 to 31.2V DC
Output Voltage 13.2V DC
Output Current Max. 8A DC

These are the specs for the IC M802 SSB are:
Power supply requirement 13.6V DC ±15%
Tx (Max. power) 30A (typ.)
Rx (Max. audio) 3.0A

Note the transmit amperage of the IC M802 is 30 amps and the maximum output of the Sailor N420 is 8 amps.

Additionally, the N420 is probably wired without a "homerun" to the battery switch. And, of course anything wired to the Sailor N420 will likely create noise on the SSB.

I think you should reexamine your installation. I imagine that N420 will get pretty hot, especially if the operator is long-winded.

Bill
BeBe


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 

Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego



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Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Eric. When your essay 209 Amelle supplied the boat with sailor 24 to 12 V inverters. They also supplied the boat with a single sideband I've change that to an 802 with no issues powering it from that same sailor converter. We have had no issues up-and-down the single side band and ham bands. 
Fairwinds to all. 
SM 209 for sale in Newport Rhode Island. 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 29, 2013, at 20:20, Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Captain Pillar,

The Sailor 24VDC to 12VDC converters under the navigation station inside the door on the right side do not have the amperage output necessary to handle any SSB transceiver.

Regards,

Bill Rouse
BeBe


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:
 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 
In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.
The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.
I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.
I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 
Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?
What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?
What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

Terry&Dena
SV Libby SM#196
San Diego



Chantiers Amel Video

Alan Leslie
 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqc83y_les-chantiers-amel-a-la-rochelle_news

 

Amel 54 era in the factory

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Opua, New Zealand


Re: [Amel] Sails for Maramu

Alan Leslie
 

Having battens to, at least, not have a hollow leach, and at best, have a little roach improves the upwind performance of a Super Maramu.

There is no issue furling the sail into the mast. The main with short vertical battens fits fine, just be careful that the battens go in parallel with the mast. The mizzen is no issue at all.

 

I know, we have new main and mizzen ( March 2013) from DEME VOILES (not Demi). They are well constructed sails and perform very well. The batten pockets have chafe protection incorporated (just as standard sails with horizontal battens)

 

As far as I can see DEME VOILES ( http://www.deme-voiles.com/pages/societe.asp?Textes_Versions=UK ) are still in business and still making sails for Amel....I recently had a quotation from them for a new genoa.

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Opua, New Zealand

 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Charles Macdonald <c.macdonald@...> wrote:
 


Following up on a previous discussion, --and thanks to the directions I got from you-- I wrote DEME and they sent an estimate for Dacron “cross-cut” (?) sails and Mylar “coupe orientée” (??) sails, the latter somewhat more expensive. The three sails (Main, Mizzen, Genoa) would come to about 7000 Euros. They say they do not cut sails with batten because they fear there is not enough space in the mast, an objection that one of you addressed already. Any comments on this (for which I would be very grateful)?
Fair winds,
Charles
(Maramu N° 253)


Main Sail Battens Super Maramu

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent, 

I am fairly certain about this issue and have discussed this with several others who much more experienced than I am.

Assuming that you have a triradial cut main sail, where the top and the middle sections of the sail are joined you will see chafing fairly soon because of the added dimension of the furled sail caused by the battens. 

I assume that most people that want extra trim and flatness will first invest in a triradial cut main sail, before they invest in battens.

If you have battens, you should lower your main and have a look at the point where the top and middle sections are joined...I think you will be surprised.

Bill
BeBe


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Jacques Paulus <jacquesetannick.paulus@...> wrote:
 

Hi,
 
I'm just looking for new sails for my Santorin and, after consultation of +/- 10 sailmakers and a lot of different proposals, I choiced for a complete set of sails (Genoa, main sail and mizzen sail) with DCX tissue and triradial cut, by UK Sailmakers for the price of 6430€ TTC. Very attractive price.
 
Dacron cross cut is the lowest quality you can get. the less expensive choice ($)
 
Then you have radial Hydranet (Dacron + Fibers) option, from Dimension Polyant, with a triradial cut, but it's relatively expensive ($$$) and you got heavy but resistant sails which are more stable in their forms but will loose their forms after +/- 5 years. Valid choice for round the world cruising.
 
Then you have DCX product, from Dimension Polyant also, with a mylar kernel + carbon fibers, which are more stable and lighter than Hydranet, but at the cost of less resistance at long time. It's my choice, for performant cruising and more velocity in light airs. It's cheaper than Hydranet ($$), 6430€ TTC, in my case (price valid for ordering before 15th of december). It's my choice for performant cruising.
 
Then you have all the carbon/mylar/aramid solutions which are lighter and more performant but at the cost of a relatively higher fagility. Those solutions are also more expansive ($$$$). The choice for competition sailing.
 
Your choice must depend of your program. For example (My idea):
Round the world ==> Dacron or Hydranet (better), Cross cut or triradial (better).
Cruising in Mediterranea ==> DCX
Cruising with a bit of competition ==> DCX
Cruising in Atlantic  ==> Hydranet or DCX
Competition ==> More sophisticated
 
Have a look at UK Sailmakers: www.uksailmakers.com
 
Best regards,
 
Jacques Paulus


--
Jacques et Annick Paulus
 
rue de Saint-Ghislain 15/207          Bateau Paranos
1348 Louvain-La-Neuve                 Capitainerie de Saint-Mandrier
Belgique                                          2, quai Séverine
                                                        83430 Saint-Mandrier
                                                        France
 
Tél Jacques: +32 495 20 10 54      Tél en France: +33 6 27 86 66 14
Tél Annick: +32 498 52 78 31
 



Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

eric freedman
 

I do not believe the 12 v sailor would supply sufficient amps for a SSB radio. I have a very hefty converter made by ICOM that Amel installed under the Nav station. This item is now discontinue. However there are a lot of high amp 24-12 volt electronic converters on the market.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Re: Sails for Maramu

Jacques Paulus <jacquesetannick.paulus@...>
 

Hi,
 
I'm just looking for new sails for my Santorin and, after consultation of +/- 10 sailmakers and a lot of different proposals, I choiced for a complete set of sails (Genoa, main sail and mizzen sail) with DCX tissue and triradial cut, by UK Sailmakers for the price of 6430€ TTC. Very attractive price.
 
Dacron cross cut is the lowest quality you can get. the less expensive choice ($)
 
Then you have radial Hydranet (Dacron + Fibers) option, from Dimension Polyant, with a triradial cut, but it's relatively expensive ($$$) and you got heavy but resistant sails which are more stable in their forms but will loose their forms after +/- 5 years. Valid choice for round the world cruising.
 
Then you have DCX product, from Dimension Polyant also, with a mylar kernel + carbon fibers, which are more stable and lighter than Hydranet, but at the cost of less resistance at long time. It's my choice, for performant cruising and more velocity in light airs. It's cheaper than Hydranet ($$), 6430€ TTC, in my case (price valid for ordering before 15th of december). It's my choice for performant cruising.
 
Then you have all the carbon/mylar/aramid solutions which are lighter and more performant but at the cost of a relatively higher fagility. Those solutions are also more expansive ($$$$). The choice for competition sailing.
 
Your choice must depend of your program. For example (My idea):
Round the world ==> Dacron or Hydranet (better), Cross cut or triradial (better).
Cruising in Mediterranea ==> DCX
Cruising with a bit of competition ==> DCX
Cruising in Atlantic  ==> Hydranet or DCX
Competition ==> More sophisticated
 
Have a look at UK Sailmakers: www.uksailmakers.com
 
Best regards,
 
Jacques Paulus


--
Jacques et Annick Paulus
 
rue de Saint-Ghislain 15/207          Bateau Paranos
1348 Louvain-La-Neuve                 Capitainerie de Saint-Mandrier
Belgique                                          2, quai Séverine
                                                        83430 Saint-Mandrier
                                                        France
 
Tél Jacques: +32 495 20 10 54      Tél en France: +33 6 27 86 66 14
Tél Annick: +32 498 52 78 31
 


Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Herbert,those thick green and yellow cables on the rudder stock are the end of the bonding circuit that connects all metal objects in the boat including the cast iron keel and then to the zink anodes on the rudder. not a great place for the SSB grounding.
Regards
Danny 
SM299 OceaPearl

On 30/11/2013, at 6:21 am, "Herbert Lackner" <herbert@...> wrote:

 

 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Siviero Attilio <attilio.siviero@...>
 

Herbert,

I Installed on my Santorin #84 "Sisila" an Icom 718 with an Icom AT141 automatic tuner and Pactor modem, and it works well with a KISS-SSB couterpoise to act as ground plane (see http://www.kiss-ssb.com/index.html, it costs 125€ including shipment). My "techie", an ham radio expert much more than me, also connected the ground to the rudder, as you think to do.

The advantage to have the kiss-ssb is that you have a ground plane also out of water, when you are on the hard, and the ground plane is more "consistent".

The antenna is an insulated backstay, some 10m between insulators - very expensive piece of shroud, some 500€  -,  it acts as a lambda/4 whip antenna, which with the ground plane works as a lambda/2 dipole antenna 20m long, perfect fro 40m band without any tuning, and also for 20m band, the most crowded by ham radio enthusiasts and short-wave listeners (SWLs), so when you navigate you have always somebody ready to listen to you.

Your rig seems to be better than mine, at least more powerful, and also the tuner is OK, but be careful to place the tuner as close as possible to the antenna, otherwise you tune the feeding line more than the antenna. Mauro put it in the lazarete, just below the antenna, and the KISS-SSB runs around the lazarete ceiling, just around the top opening.

The tuner permits you to use the antenna also for 80m and 160m, the low bands most used at night, with the Pactor I was able to do emails from everywhere, via Winlink.

My American call-sign is KD2ECB, General Class; the italian one is in course of assignment, Extra Class, in the next months (italian bureaucracy is back in middle-age time....).

Hope this helps, fai winds


Attilio & Maria Siviero 
Amel Santorin#84 "Sisila"


Il giorno 29/nov/2013, alle ore 18:21, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> ha scritto:


 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego




Re: [Amel] Sails for Maramu

karkauai
 

I had main and mizzen sails with vertical battens made by Banks Sails in Kemah Texas (near Galveston).  The battens are made of 1/4 inch by 1 inch by ~4 ft fiberglass.  They are not a problem furling into the mast on the SuperMaramu, and they do give the sails a bit more area and a prettier shape. I would recommend them.
Kent
SM243
Kristy
Brunswick GA USA


On Nov 29, 2013, at 11:58 AM, "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

 

Charles,

There is not sufficient space on the Super Maramu mast for batten sails. In my opinion, you do not need vertical battens...you are not going to race it. are you?

Also, since Demi went out of business coinciding with Amel discontinuing using Demi as a source, I am not sure who is using the brand of Demi.

I assume that the 7,000 Euros is excluding VAT?

I have a quote from Demi for 3 sails for a Super Maramu that was given to me in 2009 for 11,000 Euros.

I recommend that you use the loft we used last Jan who will make triradial cut high quality dacron sails for your Super Maramu for about 7,000-8,000 Euro. They are in Turkey. Contact is Tashin Oge at qsails"at"qsails.com

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Fethiye, Turkey


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Charles Macdonald <c.macdonald@...> wrote:
 


Following up on a previous discussion, --and thanks to the directions I got from you-- I wrote DEME and they sent an estimate for Dacron “cross-cut” (?) sails and Mylar “coupe orientée” (??) sails, the latter somewhat more expensive. The three sails (Main, Mizzen, Genoa) would come to about 7000 Euros. They say they do not cut sails with batten because they fear there is not enough space in the mast, an objection that one of you addressed already. Any comments on this (for which I would be very grateful)?
Fair winds,
Charles
(Maramu N° 253)



Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Herbert Lackner
 

 

We will install a Kenwood 480HX SSB with an MFJ 993BRT automatic antenna tuner on our SN #120. We do not have a HF ground plate (I think that was an only an option for the SN). To ground the antenna Tuner I planned to connect it to the rudder shaft where the thick yellow/green cables are connected (I assume they are for the VHF grounding).

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/329276585

 

is that ok?  (do not want to have a   Swiss cheese rudder shaft J )

 

Thanks, Herbert

SN #120 Kali Mera, Sukosan

 

 

Von: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Im Auftrag von Joel F Potter
Gesendet: Freitag, 29. November 2013 17:16
An: amelyachtowners@...
Betreff: RE: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Re: [Amel] Sails for Maramu

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Charles,

There is not sufficient space on the Super Maramu mast for batten sails. In my opinion, you do not need vertical battens...you are not going to race it. are you?

Also, since Demi went out of business coinciding with Amel discontinuing using Demi as a source, I am not sure who is using the brand of Demi.

I assume that the 7,000 Euros is excluding VAT?

I have a quote from Demi for 3 sails for a Super Maramu that was given to me in 2009 for 11,000 Euros.

I recommend that you use the loft we used last Jan who will make triradial cut high quality dacron sails for your Super Maramu for about 7,000-8,000 Euro. They are in Turkey. Contact is Tashin Oge at qsails"at"qsails.com

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Fethiye, Turkey


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Charles Macdonald <c.macdonald@...> wrote:
 


Following up on a previous discussion, --and thanks to the directions I got from you-- I wrote DEME and they sent an estimate for Dacron “cross-cut” (?) sails and Mylar “coupe orientée” (??) sails, the latter somewhat more expensive. The three sails (Main, Mizzen, Genoa) would come to about 7000 Euros. They say they do not cut sails with batten because they fear there is not enough space in the mast, an objection that one of you addressed already. Any comments on this (for which I would be very grateful)?
Fair winds,
Charles
(Maramu N° 253)



Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Lior <lior246@...>
 

hi joel

thanks a lot for your feedback.
can you/someone give us a link to an isolated 24/12v converter for the ssb?

thanks
lior


ב-29 בנוב 2013, בשעה 17:15, "Joel F Potter" <jfpottercys@...> כתב/ה:

 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Sails for Maramu

Charles Macdonald <c.macdonald@...>
 


Following up on a previous discussion, --and thanks to the directions I got from you-- I wrote DEME and they sent an estimate for Dacron “cross-cut” (?) sails and Mylar “coupe orientée” (??) sails, the latter somewhat more expensive. The three sails (Main, Mizzen, Genoa) would come to about 7000 Euros. They say they do not cut sails with batten because they fear there is not enough space in the mast, an objection that one of you addressed already. Any comments on this (for which I would be very grateful)?
Fair winds,
Charles
(Maramu N° 253)


Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

amelforme
 

All Amel boats since at least as far  back as the Meltem in the 1970’s has a floating/full earth return 12 and/or 24 volt direct current system. Simply, this means all DC power comes out of the battery, to the device that needs the power, AND THEN RETURN COMPLETRLY AND DIRECTLY TO TH BATTERY BANK. This prevents many possibilities of corrosion and keeps noisy things like fans and fridge motors from ‘talking’ to your radio, stereo and so forth. It is extremely important to never corrupt this system as, depending on how much power has been corrupted, you can suffer serious problems with electrolysis and feedback.

 

All Amel’s that had a ICOM SSB installed at the shipyard came with a special ICOM 24-12 volt transformer/converter with an isolated negative to accommodate the floating/full earth return. If you provided your own equipment for them to install, they always insisted on the special isolated negative transformer and would not install transformers that were not compliant with this. SSB’s require a healthy amount of power that can cause trouble if not integrated into the DC system correctly.

 

If your Amel has been modified by those unknowing of the type of DC system it has, change it back to the way God and Captain Amel ( and Jacques Carteau! ) conceived it.

 

If an electrician or electronics installer comes to your boat, be sure to ask him if he is familiar with a floating DC systems. His answer should be in the affirmative with a compliment that this is the best way to power DC gear. If he says “no”, “that’s stupid”, or “Whuzzat”, send him away. Trust me, you don’t want to screw around with this. I sold a SM 53 boat where the rudder shaft was Swiss cheese because of an improper SSB install. When we dropped the rudder to replace it, I bent the shaft in half with my bare hands. They guy who bought this boat still owns it, I believe, and I invite you to chime in here. He spent $3500 to repair the wiring and more to replace the rudder shaft here in Fort Lauderdale. Amel was a big help with technical assistance but Carteau admonished me to not screw around with the DC electrical system even though it wasn’t I who ever messed with any DC system on an Amel.    

 

All the best,

Joel

 

 

Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address:  401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida  33301

Phone:  (954) 462-5869   Cell:  (954) 812-2485

Email:  jfpottercys@...

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Richard03801
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:27 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller

 

Cell 603 767 5330


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego


Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Mark Erdos
 

Lior,

 

My understanding on this (and I am not an electrician – someone with better knowledge please chime in). Since this is not isolated, any equipment connected to this that is then grounded to your Amel grounding system would then cause a common ground amongst all of your neg circuits since at some point the connection is made between the isolated ground and the common ground.

 

Like Dennis Miller says “I could be wrong”

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of lior 555
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 11:01 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

 

 

Hi

 

In the Amel 54 there is only 24V output for SSB. I ordered from Victron Energy the Model Orion 24/12-70A

 

Can someone give me a feedback if this converter is ok?

 

Thanks

Lior

 

 

2013/11/29 Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 

In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 

Richard Piller


On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego

 


Re: Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Mark Erdos
 

Terry,

 

Sorry I have caused you to doubt your plan.

 

Here is what I found out about Isolated Ground:

 

“An isolated ground (IG) is a local ground connection used with a supply, one of the common earthing arrangements used with domestic mains supplies.

The primary reason for the use of isolated grounds (IG) is to provide a noise-free ground return, separate from the equipment grounding (EG) return. The EG circuit includes all of the metal conduit, outlet boxes, and metal enclosures that contain the wiring and must be grounded to provide a safe return path in case of fault currents. The IG' provides an insulated, separate ground path for the ground reference in electronic equipment, such as computers, hospital equipment, and audio equipment. IG helps eliminate the potential for a ground loop, which can cause noise, data errors, and disruptions to these systems. The IG is typically insulated and separate all the way back to the point of origin of the circuit, either a main panel or sub-panel. The IG, EG and neutral are all bonded together at that point. Due to the installation of a separate, insulated conductor and the associated special outlets required, IG circuits are more expensive to install than standard power circuits.

Its main downside is its usually higher impedance than other earthing systems, resulting in slightly lower safety levels.

Until the 1950s, isolated ground domestic mains supplies tended to have no RCD or ELCB, and too high a ground impedance to blow a fuse if a live to earth fault occurred. This could leave metalwork in the house live. The use of RCDs (or formerly ELCBs) with such installs solved this problem. Such installs are called EEBAD (Earthed Equipotential Bonding and Automatic Disconnection).

The British term for isolated ground is "IT", from the French “terre isolee.” Source Wikipedia.

 

Amel boats are wired with an isolated ground.

 

To answer the question about what would happen if a non-isolated converter were used (I am guessing here) a non-isolated convertor could potentially cause loss of continuity in the system.

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.

The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.

I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.

I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 

Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?

What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?

What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

 

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

 

Terry&Dena

SV Libby SM#196

San Diego

 


Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

lior 555 <lior246@...>
 

Hi

In the Amel 54 there is only 24V output for SSB. I ordered from Victron Energy the Model Orion 24/12-70A

Can someone give me a feedback if this converter is ok?

Thanks
Lior



2013/11/29 Richard03801 <richard03801@...>

 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 
In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.
The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.
I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.
I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 
Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?
What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?
What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

Terry&Dena
SV Libby SM#196
San Diego



Re: [Amel] Isolated or non Isolated DC to DC Convertor

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi. Under the navigation station the doors on the right side have 12 V power supplies that should be your source for 12 V coming off the 24 bank. I believe the brand name is sailor. 
In the ass locker there should be a copper foil for grounding the A140 tuner. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Nov 29, 2013, at 8:27, <terencesingh@...> wrote:

 

Some advise is needed with respect to the replacement of the factory installed 24VDC to 12VDC DC to DC Convertor.

We are about to install our Icom M802/AT140 SSB Radio.
The existing 12VDC wiring system is quite mess and includes a separate 12VDC battery that was used for the previous SSB installation.
I have heard that an Isolated ground DC to DC convertor should be used. These are used in systems that are ether positive ground or with floating ground systems.
I am pretty sure that our vessel (SM#196) does not have a positive ground system. 
Did Amel built their boats with a floating ground?
What does this mean with respect to installing a DC to DC convertor?
What are the ramifications for using a non isolated DC to DC convertor?

Any help understanding this is much appreciated.

Terry&Dena
SV Libby SM#196
San Diego