Date   

Re: A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

Craig Scott
 

José,
I have posted a picture of the motor and brake assembly in the Lone Star - A54 #101 album.  The motor is fine.  My problem is getting a replacement for the electromagnetic brake.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

Craig Scott
 

Thanks for the reply.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

Craig Scott
 

I have done that and the motor and brake were refurbished.  The brake, however, now requires 35VDC before it will engage.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

karkauai
 

So my comments made it clear as mud, eh?  Great, glad to be of help (-:
Kent


On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:56 AM, <andrew.lamb@...> wrote:

 

So we take our boat out next week to clean and change the anodes - ours has the red plastic cap - I was convinced by recent discussions that I should fit it with a propeller anode. Now I am not so sure!?


Andrew & Kate

Ronpische

SM 472

Canet-en-Roussillon


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

So we take our boat out next week to clean and change the anodes - ours has the red plastic cap - I was convinced by recent discussions that I should fit it with a propeller anode. Now I am not so sure!?


Andrew & Kate

Ronpische

SM 472

Canet-en-Roussillon


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

karkauai
 

The corrosion/electrolytic? damage was primarily under the "wearing out bearing" aft of the inner Oring.  That is an area that has free flow of sea water between the bearing and the shaft, so maybe not a hypoxic environment  There is a hole about 2mm in diameter and depth that is aft of the bearing, and there is discoloration and loss of sheen to the shaft forward of the Oring still under the bearing.

I will inspect for any evidence of voltage leak, which I think I may find related to the installation of three new chargers about a year ago.

Amel believes that you can "overzinc" which may cause problems as well.  They believe that on our SM's the two zincs on the rudder
"balance" the system appropriately.  I didn't have a prop zinc when I bought the boat, and instead had the red plastic cap that was supplied with the AutoProp.  When I switched to the MaxProp it was supplied with a zinc, so I used it.  I've seen that prop zinc disappear about twice as fast as the rudder zincs, so I think it's doing something...?something good?...I don't know now.

I'm still reading about bonding systems and haven't found anything yet that makes it perfectly clear to me.  If I run across anything that makes it easier to understand I will post it here.  It seems to be a complicated subject that doesn't have absolutely clear answers...there seems to be an "art" to it as well as the science.  Henri was as much an "artiste" as anyone when it comes to building boats, so I'm leaving things the way he designed them.

Kent ( you can call me "Rusty")
SM243
Kristy
On the hard in Fernandina Beach, FL


From: "divanz620@..."
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:50 AM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

 
You could be right...the voltage potential is just so overwhelming everything goes....
I can't find a lot of logic in most of this....
I've just antifouled and refurbished the Autoprop with new bearings...and after seeing the shaft corrosion on (your?) shafts, I've installed the prop zinc that comes with the bearing kit... I see the 54s have it whereas our SM53s don't ...why ??

Also I showed those pics to an engineer here and he thinks it is crevice corrosion caused by Stainless steel operating in an oxygen deprived environment...which could be the case if the outer seals failed, but the inners didn't....more food for thought.......

Cheers
Alan
SV Elyse SM437
Gulf Harbour NZ ...currently



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

karkauai
 

I added a 12 V charger to keep the start battery topped up when at the dock for long periods.  My FireBoy fire suppression system uses a small amperage and will deplete the battery after a couple of weeks.  When I am cruising the alternators keep it topped up so I don't have to use the charger.
Kent
SM243 Kristy



From: "andrew.lamb@..."
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:00 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

 

Ok sounds like I should leave well alone - in our last boat the -VE poles were tied together between the house and engine batteries with one common (black) master switch and the positive poles had separate (red) master switches the combined circuits were isolated though. I am keen to monitor the battery state as the only charging appears to be from (I think) the genset or engine alternator and given that both of these need the battery to be charged to start... - there appears to be no charging from the shore power - I think I will install a separate battery monitor, to monitor the health of the engine battery. Good tip on the jump leads - I did come across these at the bottom of a locker.

Andrew & Kate
Ronpische
SM 472
Canet-en-Rousillon



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Alan and Richard,

I had GLASS batteries in my last boat.  They require some very specific handling.  I will use lead/acid in any cruising vessel I purchase.

Jean-Pierre



On 24 Apr 2014, at 14:37, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> wrote:

 

Hi if you change to glass batteries that are no maintenance you also need to change the charging pattern of your charging system that's the downside. The second downside is depending on where you cruise glass batteries may not be available should you need a replacement. Under no circumstances can you mix and match AGM batteries and Lead acid. 
Camil has designed a pretty good system you might want to stick with it for a while and just leave it be. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Apr 24, 2014, at 7:12, <divanz620@...> wrote:

 

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the start battery, I don't.

The main engine has a dedicated alternator to charge the start battery...so every time you run the engine the start battery is charged...just like your car...do you have a monitor for that ?....I'm guessing  the answer is no...


Same with the genset...there's a dedicated alternator that charges the start battery (same battery as the engine charges)


So in total...don't worry about it...just keep it topped up with distilled water.....or better, do what I'm gong to do and replace it with a no-maintenance AGM battery


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437



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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi if you change to glass batteries that are no maintenance you also need to change the charging pattern of your charging system that's the downside. The second downside is depending on where you cruise glass batteries may not be available should you need a replacement. Under no circumstances can you mix and match AGM batteries and Lead acid. 
Camil has designed a pretty good system you might want to stick with it for a while and just leave it be. 

Regards 
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Apr 24, 2014, at 7:12, <divanz620@...> wrote:

 

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the start battery, I don't.

The main engine has a dedicated alternator to charge the start battery...so every time you run the engine the start battery is charged...just like your car...do you have a monitor for that ?....I'm guessing  the answer is no...


Same with the genset...there's a dedicated alternator that charges the start battery (same battery as the engine charges)


So in total...don't worry about it...just keep it topped up with distilled water.....or better, do what I'm gong to do and replace it with a no-maintenance AGM battery


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...>
 

The first thing to do is (if you have not already done so) is to take it to a specialist electric motor repair facility and hope. I have been amazed at the repairs that can be effected on motors that I have taken in here in Malta including the sea water damaged one I had repaired a couple of weeks ago.
 
                        Good luck,  Anne and John,  Bali Hai,   SM2k 319   for sale in Malta
 

From: lior 555
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] A54 Main Sail Furling Motor
 
 

Hi Craig
 
I also searched  where I can get this motor.
You can get the motor from Amel. It costs about 750 €. It is only possible to order 10 motors from Emerson but you will have to wait many weeks an it will cost about 550 €/motor. I did not find any other supplier.
 
Lior
Amel 54 #18 SHARONA
 
 


2014-04-24 3:08 GMT+02:00 <sv.lonestar@...>:
 

The electromagnetic brake on the Main Sail Furling Motor on my Amel 54 has failed.  Water accumulated in the housing and the brake no longer engages with 24VDC.  Amel has told me the motor is obsolete and Emerson Electric has confirmed the same and says not parts are available.  Has anyone sourced a replacement brake assembly?
Craig Scott
Lone Star
A54 #101
currently in Myrtle Beach, SC

 


Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Alan Leslie
 

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the start battery, I don't.

The main engine has a dedicated alternator to charge the start battery...so every time you run the engine the start battery is charged...just like your car...do you have a monitor for that ?....I'm guessing  the answer is no...


Same with the genset...there's a dedicated alternator that charges the start battery (same battery as the engine charges)


So in total...don't worry about it...just keep it topped up with distilled water.....or better, do what I'm gong to do and replace it with a no-maintenance AGM battery


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Alan Leslie
 

You could be right...the voltage potential is just so overwhelming everything goes....

I can't find a lot of logic in most of this....

I've just antifouled and refurbished the Autoprop with new bearings...and after seeing the shaft corrosion on (your?) shafts, I've installed the prop zinc that comes with the bearing kit... I see the 54s have it whereas our SM53s don't ...why ??


Also I showed those pics to an engineer here and he thinks it is crevice corrosion caused by Stainless steel operating in an oxygen deprived environment...which could be the case if the outer seals failed, but the inners didn't....more food for thought.......


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Gulf Harbour NZ ...currently


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

Peter Forbes
 

Depending on price I might be interested in a spare motor.

Peter Forbes
Amel 54 # 035
07836 209730

On 24 Apr 2014, at 10:53, "jose esteller" <jose.esteller@...> wrote:

 

Hi Craig

I think the main sail furling can be manufactured by LEROY SOMER in France, as the others systems used before in SM. Can you post the references of the motor and perhaps a photo? With them I will try ask this manufacturer. Past time I had the same problem with the main sail motor in my SM 2000 and I found the motor directly. I am very interested on this because perhaps in the future I can found the same problem with my actual 54 ORION!

Best regards

 

José Esteller

Expert près la Cour d'Appel de Montpellier (H)

Expert près la Cour Administrative d'Appel de Marseille

Tel +33467844519 Fax +33467844521

jose.esteller@...


Re: A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

ESTELLER
 

Hi Craig

I think the main sail furling can be manufactured by LEROY SOMER in France, as the others systems used before in SM. Can you post the references of the motor and perhaps a photo? With them I will try ask this manufacturer. Past time I had the same problem with the main sail motor in my SM 2000 and I found the motor directly. I am very interested on this because perhaps in the future I can found the same problem with my actual 54 ORION!

Best regards

 

José Esteller

Expert près la Cour d'Appel de Montpellier (H)

Expert près la Cour Administrative d'Appel de Marseille

Tel +33467844519 Fax +33467844521

jose.esteller@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: perkins 4.154 mountings

nezih nezih
 

Thank you all, for your advice.

Ross, Im not sure to wait for weeks; Because there is not much time before hurricane season;but I wonder what kind of mounts they are. 

I asked  these mounts from us,uk and they answered not have them at all.
My maramu i,s 1981/88 . Vetüs mounts are very different.  If I can not find the same ones  I have hope to change the buffers.
 Now Im waiting the answer of Amel to my email.

Maybe someone has same as next before replace new engine.

Im at Belize and searching rebuilt kitts.  Belize is easy for transit shipping (no tax).
I will sail to Cuba to rebuilt the engine.  I had been there 3 month. I saw that they are exellent on engine; exactly on old engines like perkins. There is very cheap.

Regards

Nezih Kilinckini
Mahayana 1981/88

On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 1:28 AM, nezih nezih wrote:
On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 8:41 PM, "ericmeury@..." wrote:



Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 


Ok sounds like I should leave well alone - in our last boat the -VE poles were tied together between the house and engine batteries with one common (black) master switch and the positive poles had separate (red) master switches the combined circuits were isolated though. I am keen to monitor the battery state as the only charging appears to be from (I think) the genset or engine alternator and given that both of these need the battery to be charged to start... - there appears to be no charging from the shore power - I think I will install a separate battery monitor, to monitor the health of the engine battery. Good tip on the jump leads - I did come across these at the bottom of a locker.


Andrew & Kate

Ronpische

SM 472

Canet-en-Rousillon


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] A54 Main Sail Furling Motor

lior 555 <lior246@...>
 

Hi Craig

I also searched  where I can get this motor.
You can get the motor from Amel. It costs about 750 €. It is only possible to order 10 motors from Emerson but you will have to wait many weeks an it will cost about 550 €/motor. I did not find any other supplier.

Lior
Amel 54 #18 SHARONA




2014-04-24 3:08 GMT+02:00 <sv.lonestar@...>:

 

The electromagnetic brake on the Main Sail Furling Motor on my Amel 54 has failed.  Water accumulated in the housing and the brake no longer engages with 24VDC.  Amel has told me the motor is obsolete and Emerson Electric has confirmed the same and says not parts are available.  Has anyone sourced a replacement brake assembly?
Craig Scott
Lone Star
A54 #101
currently in Myrtle Beach, SC



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

There is an old joke. What do you get when you cross breed King Kong and a Canary—answer- I don’t know but when it talks you listen.

 

I am a firm believer that wherever lightning want to go it goes, I do not believe that grounding the rigging to the bonding does anything. I was hit by lightning.

It struck the Ais-Vhf antenna and melted it to about 10 inches like a welding rod. It blew out things on the generator, the engine, all the electronics, the autopilot the bow thruster motor and blew the propeller off the bow thruster and the bow thruster out of the boat..

I do not know what connecting the bonding to the rigging would have done to help.

 

My friend has a boat in Florida where everything is bonded to the rigging. The lightning hit his rigging and wound up blowing out a bonded through hull and sunk the boat at the dock.

 

I don’t think a million or billion volts cares what wires you have running through your boat-it goes where it feels like.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite SM 376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of divanz620@...
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

 

 

This is the Amel system.

 

The -24V line is not connected to "ground" at all.

The -12V starting battery line is only connected to ground during starting of the engines.

 

All the -ve lines from 24V equipment return to the -ve battery terminal of the 24V bank.

 

All of the metal equipment that comes in contact with salt water is grounded by means of green/yellow wires that are all connected together at a bracket in the sump. This bracket is connected to a keel bolt and also to the zincs on the rudder. There is no zinc in the Yanmar engine, although there is one in the Genset.

 

I can sort of see some logic in this, but what has me also mystified is that all of the standing rigging is isolated from ground....I don't know if anyone can explain why that is a good thing ?

 

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437.


Re: Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

Alan Leslie
 

This is the Amel system.


The -24V line is not connected to "ground" at all.

The -12V starting battery line is only connected to ground during starting of the engines.


All the -ve lines from 24V equipment return to the -ve battery terminal of the 24V bank.


All of the metal equipment that comes in contact with salt water is grounded by means of green/yellow wires that are all connected together at a bracket in the sump. This bracket is connected to a keel bolt and also to the zincs on the rudder. There is no zinc in the Yanmar engine, although there is one in the Genset.


I can sort of see some logic in this, but what has me also mystified is that all of the standing rigging is isolated from ground....I don't know if anyone can explain why that is a good thing ?


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

On my boat,

Both the engine and generator have floating ground circuits. They are only connected to the battery when the engines are started. Otherwise except for the isolated  alternators, there is no connection to the negative side of the batteries.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite SM 376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Kent Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 3:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine and Service Battery circuits Isolated

 

 

I hope someone more knowledgeable than I chimes in here.  My understanding is that all 24V equipment is grounded directly back to the 24v Negative battery pole, and likewise the 12V equipment is grounded directly back to the 12V battery pole.  Neither of these should be connected to the bonding circuit, which connects everything to the zincs on the rudder.  I believe this is called an isolated or floating bonding system.  I haven't quite figured out the difference between this and other bonding systems, and/or the advantages or disadvantages of different systems...but I wouldn't change it for the sake of a 12V battery monitor.  Perhaps you could install a switch to go from house bank to 12v battery?

Kent (Rusty)

SM243

Kristy 

Fernandina Beach FL


On Apr 23, 2014, at 3:07 PM, <andrew.lamb@...> wrote:

 

I recently installed a Victron battery monitor which also has a facility to monitor the engine battery voltage however I discovered that the -VE of the engine battery and the service batteries are not linked. Does anyone know a reason why this should be and see a problem with why they should not be tied together - I would have thought from a "grounding" point of view it would be better for them to be linked?

 

thanks

 

Andrew & Kate

S/V Ronpische

SM 472