Date   

RE : [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Climma A/C issue

Antoine FELTZ <antoinefeltz@...>
 

Ho all
At the opposite side of thé clima thermostat il a small screw. 
Turn it and the compressor will start 
Anroine

Cordialement 
Antoine Feltz



-------- Message d'origine --------
De : "derickgates@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date :09/06/2014 19:51 (GMT+01:00)
A : amelyachtowners@...
Objet : [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Climma A/C issue

 

Bill,

 

Could a ground fault occur in the A/C controller switch that only happens when the High fan is selected and the compressor is on?  I have never taken one of those switches apart, but I have had a failed switch relaced by an electrician that solved a "no power to the compressor" problem. 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava


Re: Climma A/C issue

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Bill,

 

Could a ground fault occur in the A/C controller switch that only happens when the High fan is selected and the compressor is on?  I have never taken one of those switches apart, but I have had a failed switch relaced by an electrician that solved a "no power to the compressor" problem. 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

islandbwoy4434
 

Thank you to the group for clearing up my confusion.

Terry
SV Libby


Re: Climma A/C issue

yahoogroups@...
 

Andrew and Eric,

When I turn the breaker ON with the A/C controls already set to Cool and High Fan, the fault occurs.

When I turn the breaker ON with the A/C controls already set to Cool and Med fan, the fan comes ON and after the 15 second delay the compressor starts fine with no fault. If I switch the fan to HIGH after the compressor is ON, the fault occurs.

When set to HEAT and Fan to High, I get no fault when I turn the breaker ON.

I found a capacitor with slightly lower voltage and 40uf, same thing happens. I am going to try to find a more appropriate 40uf cap.

Bill
BeBe SM 387


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Climma A/C issue

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

The heater does not use the compressor, just resistance heat. I believe it is the 40 uf capacitor and is unable to start the compressor at high speed. Also check the 3 small capacitors

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite SM 376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 12:36 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Climma A/C issue

 

 

To continue on the previous posting....



Also, and probably really important, the Fan works on High when the unit is set to Heat rather than cool. I only have an issue when the unit is set to COOL and Fan on HIGH...and that problem occurs immediately and before the timer turns on the compressor.

 

Sorry about the typo, we are in Corfu, not Carfu.



Bill

BeBe


Re: Climma A/C issue

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Hi Bill

Does the compressor come on straight away on medium - there is supposed to be a delay, perhaps the timer circuit has malfunctioned or needs adjusted. If it comes on straight-away perhaps the cummulative surge of power is too much?

Other thoughts - does it occur on the generator? If you already have another AC unit on (i.e. the pump is already functioning) then turn it on does it still happen?

Andrew
Ronpische
SM 472 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma A/C issue

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Bill,

Why dont you get a 40 uf capacitor from any AC repairman,

You will probably have to jury rig it as the capacitor in the unit is small.

Or you could just take a 40 uf capacitor from another unit and see if it makes a change.

 

I bought a capacitor checker last fall and was amaze to find out how many bad capacitors I had.

The correct capacitor also cured the heat shutting off in my cabin.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite SM 376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 12:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Climma A/C issue

 

 

I am experiencing something strange.

 

We entered the marina at Carfu, Greece yesterday and summer arrived in Greece yesterday. I connected to shore power and turned on the Salon A/C on High Fan and the breaker on the side of the A/C panel and the breaker on shore power opened. I noticed that there was not a spike in Amps. 

 

After checking fan capacitors and compressor capacitor, I found that the compressor capacitor was at about 10uf instead of the spec'd 40uf. I thought I had a spare, but unfortunately, No.

 

Checking further, I determined that the A/C unit would work fine on Medium fan and I determined that even though the compressor capacitor was out of spec, the compressor started and ran OK when the fan was set to Medium Speed. I had new spare fan capacitors and replaced them, but this did not help.

 

To sum up everything the breaker on the side of the A/C panel opens immediately and before the timer turns on the compressor, if the fan is set to High. I believe that this is a "ground fault."



I do not have any problems with the other A/C units...they work fine.



Are there any suggestions?



Best,



Bill

BeBe SM 387

Currently, Carfu, Greece

 


Re: Climma A/C issue

yahoogroups@...
 

To continue on the previous posting....

Also, and probably really important, the Fan works on High when the unit is set to Heat 
rather than cool. I only have an issue when the unit is set to COOL and Fan on HIGH...and that problem occurs immediately and before the timer turns on the compressor.

Sorry about the typo, we are in Corfu, not Carfu.

Bill
BeBe


Climma A/C issue

yahoogroups@...
 

I am experiencing something strange.


We entered the marina at Carfu, Greece yesterday and summer arrived in Greece yesterday. I connected to shore power and turned on the Salon A/C on High Fan and the breaker on the side of the A/C panel and the breaker on shore power opened. I noticed that there was not a spike in Amps. 


After checking fan capacitors and compressor capacitor, I found that the compressor capacitor was at about 10uf instead of the spec'd 40uf. I thought I had a spare, but unfortunately, No.


Checking further, I determined that the A/C unit would work fine on Medium fan and I determined that even though the compressor capacitor was out of spec, the compressor started and ran OK when the fan was set to Medium Speed. I had new spare fan capacitors and replaced them, but this did not help.


To sum up everything the breaker on the side of the A/C panel opens immediately and before the timer turns on the compressor, if the fan is set to High. I believe that this is a "ground fault."


I do not have any problems with the other A/C units...they work fine.


Are there any suggestions?


Best,


Bill

BeBe SM 387

Currently, Carfu, Greece



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Ian Park
 

Herbert,
I agree. I have been searching for a second ground in the bilge on my Santorin, and there isn't one there - just the copper strap in the lazarette.

Thanks for your information on grounding the tuner. I am a novice with SSB and before I start using it I will check the ground system and fit the capacitors. Thanks for the details. My electronics knowledge is at a very early learning stage.

We're heading south from UK at present, heading for Cape Verde.

Best wishes


Ian and Linda. SN 69. Ocean Hobo


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Alan Leslie
 

very good explanation Herbert


I think that all SMs have the two seperate grounds....in mine it was written on the cables at the nav station...so it should be clear which ground is which...


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437, Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Herbert Lackner
 

Good Morning to all,

Alans 2nd option was what I wanted to explain :-)

On our SN we do not have a separate HF ground (I think this was an option that the first owner did not order from amel), the copper foil is connected to the yellow green line and therefore to the rudder.... Maybe all SMs have the the separate HF ground?

So to prevent any grounding problems I choose the solution to put the capacitors in between the tuner ground and the copper foil (in serial, that means that there is no DC connection between the tuner ground and the copper foil, the capacitors will block any DC currents but will let HF through).

The SSB itself will not be grounded in a normal installation. Sometimes it has to be grounded, when problems (like HF burn when touching the SSB during transmitting, you will find out if you have these problems ;-) ) occur, and then you should also use the capacitors (serial) when connection the ssb ground.  Before you do that you should check your ssb installation to eliminate other reasons for these ssb problems before you ground the ssb (this is in my opinion only the last option).

In some SSB installation manuals you can read that the ground has to be connected but this is normally not true on a sailboat, It is true on a standard land based installation in the shack at home.

in my Kennwood the -12V that goes to the SSB (from the battery, we have a 12v system) is directly connected to the Coax antenna shield that goes to the tuner, therefore blocking DC current at the tuner ground is absolute necessary to avoid to have a dorect connection from the battery to the Amel grounding system.

The capacitors are solded together in parallel so that it is like one big capacitor with two legs, it is installed as a blocking element in serial (cut the old cable and put the element in between).

Hope that makes it more clear what I tried to say

Herbert
KALI MERA, SN 120
Kusadasi

Am 07.06.2014 um 03:54 schrieb "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I think Herbert means that you can use the ships earth to make your SSB ground even better, as long as you isolate any DC current from it and you can do that by wiring 10 3900pf capacitors in parallel between the SSB ground and the ships earth - you actually have 20 connection points, 2 for each capacitor ! - the capacitors will conduct Hi frequency AC (your radio signal) but block any DC component.

But you still don't connect your 802 ground connection to ships ground.

And you still need an isolated power supply, or use the relay system I posted to keep the DC off the SSB ground...other wise that will come back through the seawater to your ships ground.

OR

Capacitors can also be used in the SSB ground with the same effect, to keep DC current from entering the seawater.....break the SSB ground connection after the tuner...between the tuner and the SSB ground plates.....best place is the copper foil....cut it across so there is no connection, and then solder 10 of those caps across the gap, side by side (ie in parallel)


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM 437, Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi when you install the tuner in the aft locker on your SM you'll notice a copper foil that attaches to a ground
Plate on the skeg. That is the tuner ground. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 6, 2014, at 17:25, "terencesingh@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

My head spins every time I think about the floating DC ground and bonding system on Libby.

I have a singular question. Where do I connect the ground connection on the Icom M802 transceiver and AT140 tuner to? Given that I have maintained the floating ground integrity on our vessel, is it safe to connect to the ships bonding circuit? (yellow and green wiring system) 

For clarity, I have the tuner already connected to SSB copper foil in the back lazerette.


Any help is appreciated.


Terry&Dena

SV Libby

#196

Mission Bay, CA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Alan Leslie
 

I think Herbert means that you can use the ships earth to make your SSB ground even better, as long as you isolate any DC current from it and you can do that by wiring 10 3900pf capacitors in parallel between the SSB ground and the ships earth - you actually have 20 connection points, 2 for each capacitor ! - the capacitors will conduct Hi frequency AC (your radio signal) but block any DC component.

But you still don't connect your 802 ground connection to ships ground.

And you still need an isolated power supply, or use the relay system I posted to keep the DC off the SSB ground...other wise that will come back through the seawater to your ships ground.

OR

Capacitors can also be used in the SSB ground with the same effect, to keep DC current from entering the seawater.....break the SSB ground connection after the tuner...between the tuner and the SSB ground plates.....best place is the copper foil....cut it across so there is no connection, and then solder 10 of those caps across the gap, side by side (ie in parallel)


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM 437, Papeete


Crosby Anchor Shackles

marksharki
 

Wichard makes wonderful stainless steel shackles used above the waterline. Like attaching sails to halyards.

We have many Wichard shackles on our boat. For use on ground tackle, underwater, in the ocean, I feel that high strength forged and galvanized steel is a better material choice. Crosby is an American company that makes hi quality galvanized steel shackles and other industrial rigging hardware. They are available proof tested with certifications for each individual part. Top of the line hardware for your ground tackle. GOOGLE Crosby shackles. Also, Defender Marine is starting to carry Crosby shackles. ( Not a large selection )

I hope this helps.

Mark Hanna

S/V  MARGUERITE 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Mark Erdos
 

Herbert,

 

This just went way over my head. If the capacitors are on parallel this means 4 connection points – two at each end? How is this connected to the single ground wire? Also, the boat ground is not used?

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:08 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

If you want to be on the safe side you can put 10 small ceramic capacitors with 3900pF (2500V) each, solded together in parallel (will give 39nF(2500 V) with little Skin Effect) between the tuner ground (ssb ground) and the boat ground.  This will prevent any DC current (and will prevent electrolysis) but will give a solid HF AC connection.  

 

Herbert

KALI MERA, SN 120

Kusadasi

 


Am 07.06.2014 um 00:49 schrieb "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Alan is 100% correct. I spent hours (okay ~ days ~ or, perhaps weeks) researching this. The 802 cable that connects the 802 to the AT has a ground wire and should be connected to both the 802 and to the ground on the AT which in turn is connected to the copper strap in the lazarette. There is no connection to the ships common ground (yellow and green wiring system) .

 

I installed an isolated 24-12 power supply. Although this has a ground connection available, I was told not to connect it. Only the battery cables are connected to the isolated 24-12 power supply.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Yacht Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...

 

The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.

 

If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.

 

I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.

 

If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Herbert Lackner
 

If you want to be on the safe side you can put 10 small ceramic capacitors with 3900pF (2500V) each, solded together in parallel (will give 39nF(2500 V) with little Skin Effect) between the tuner ground (ssb ground) and the boat ground.  This will prevent any DC current (and will prevent electrolysis) but will give a solid HF AC connection.  

Herbert
KALI MERA, SN 120
Kusadasi


Am 07.06.2014 um 00:49 schrieb "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Alan is 100% correct. I spent hours (okay ~ days ~ or, perhaps weeks) researching this. The 802 cable that connects the 802 to the AT has a ground wire and should be connected to both the 802 and to the ground on the AT which in turn is connected to the copper strap in the lazarette. There is no connection to the ships common ground (yellow and green wiring system) .

 

I installed an isolated 24-12 power supply. Although this has a ground connection available, I was told not to connect it. Only the battery cables are connected to the isolated 24-12 power supply.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Yacht Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...

 

The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.

 

If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.

 

I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.

 

If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster on 54 wont go down

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Mark Erdos
 

Alan is 100% correct. I spent hours (okay ~ days ~ or, perhaps weeks) researching this. The 802 cable that connects the 802 to the AT has a ground wire and should be connected to both the 802 and to the ground on the AT which in turn is connected to the copper strap in the lazarette. There is no connection to the ships common ground (yellow and green wiring system) .

 

I installed an isolated 24-12 power supply. Although this has a ground connection available, I was told not to connect it. Only the battery cables are connected to the isolated 24-12 power supply.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Yacht Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...

 

The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.

 

If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.

 

I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.

 

If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Alan Leslie
 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...


The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.


If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.


I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.


If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.


Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete