Date   

Climma A/C issue

yahoogroups@...
 

I am experiencing something strange.


We entered the marina at Carfu, Greece yesterday and summer arrived in Greece yesterday. I connected to shore power and turned on the Salon A/C on High Fan and the breaker on the side of the A/C panel and the breaker on shore power opened. I noticed that there was not a spike in Amps. 


After checking fan capacitors and compressor capacitor, I found that the compressor capacitor was at about 10uf instead of the spec'd 40uf. I thought I had a spare, but unfortunately, No.


Checking further, I determined that the A/C unit would work fine on Medium fan and I determined that even though the compressor capacitor was out of spec, the compressor started and ran OK when the fan was set to Medium Speed. I had new spare fan capacitors and replaced them, but this did not help.


To sum up everything the breaker on the side of the A/C panel opens immediately and before the timer turns on the compressor, if the fan is set to High. I believe that this is a "ground fault."


I do not have any problems with the other A/C units...they work fine.


Are there any suggestions?


Best,


Bill

BeBe SM 387

Currently, Carfu, Greece



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Ian Park
 

Herbert,
I agree. I have been searching for a second ground in the bilge on my Santorin, and there isn't one there - just the copper strap in the lazarette.

Thanks for your information on grounding the tuner. I am a novice with SSB and before I start using it I will check the ground system and fit the capacitors. Thanks for the details. My electronics knowledge is at a very early learning stage.

We're heading south from UK at present, heading for Cape Verde.

Best wishes


Ian and Linda. SN 69. Ocean Hobo


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Alan Leslie
 

very good explanation Herbert


I think that all SMs have the two seperate grounds....in mine it was written on the cables at the nav station...so it should be clear which ground is which...


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437, Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Herbert Lackner
 

Good Morning to all,

Alans 2nd option was what I wanted to explain :-)

On our SN we do not have a separate HF ground (I think this was an option that the first owner did not order from amel), the copper foil is connected to the yellow green line and therefore to the rudder.... Maybe all SMs have the the separate HF ground?

So to prevent any grounding problems I choose the solution to put the capacitors in between the tuner ground and the copper foil (in serial, that means that there is no DC connection between the tuner ground and the copper foil, the capacitors will block any DC currents but will let HF through).

The SSB itself will not be grounded in a normal installation. Sometimes it has to be grounded, when problems (like HF burn when touching the SSB during transmitting, you will find out if you have these problems ;-) ) occur, and then you should also use the capacitors (serial) when connection the ssb ground.  Before you do that you should check your ssb installation to eliminate other reasons for these ssb problems before you ground the ssb (this is in my opinion only the last option).

In some SSB installation manuals you can read that the ground has to be connected but this is normally not true on a sailboat, It is true on a standard land based installation in the shack at home.

in my Kennwood the -12V that goes to the SSB (from the battery, we have a 12v system) is directly connected to the Coax antenna shield that goes to the tuner, therefore blocking DC current at the tuner ground is absolute necessary to avoid to have a dorect connection from the battery to the Amel grounding system.

The capacitors are solded together in parallel so that it is like one big capacitor with two legs, it is installed as a blocking element in serial (cut the old cable and put the element in between).

Hope that makes it more clear what I tried to say

Herbert
KALI MERA, SN 120
Kusadasi

Am 07.06.2014 um 03:54 schrieb "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I think Herbert means that you can use the ships earth to make your SSB ground even better, as long as you isolate any DC current from it and you can do that by wiring 10 3900pf capacitors in parallel between the SSB ground and the ships earth - you actually have 20 connection points, 2 for each capacitor ! - the capacitors will conduct Hi frequency AC (your radio signal) but block any DC component.

But you still don't connect your 802 ground connection to ships ground.

And you still need an isolated power supply, or use the relay system I posted to keep the DC off the SSB ground...other wise that will come back through the seawater to your ships ground.

OR

Capacitors can also be used in the SSB ground with the same effect, to keep DC current from entering the seawater.....break the SSB ground connection after the tuner...between the tuner and the SSB ground plates.....best place is the copper foil....cut it across so there is no connection, and then solder 10 of those caps across the gap, side by side (ie in parallel)


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM 437, Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi when you install the tuner in the aft locker on your SM you'll notice a copper foil that attaches to a ground
Plate on the skeg. That is the tuner ground. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 6, 2014, at 17:25, "terencesingh@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

My head spins every time I think about the floating DC ground and bonding system on Libby.

I have a singular question. Where do I connect the ground connection on the Icom M802 transceiver and AT140 tuner to? Given that I have maintained the floating ground integrity on our vessel, is it safe to connect to the ships bonding circuit? (yellow and green wiring system) 

For clarity, I have the tuner already connected to SSB copper foil in the back lazerette.


Any help is appreciated.


Terry&Dena

SV Libby

#196

Mission Bay, CA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Alan Leslie
 

I think Herbert means that you can use the ships earth to make your SSB ground even better, as long as you isolate any DC current from it and you can do that by wiring 10 3900pf capacitors in parallel between the SSB ground and the ships earth - you actually have 20 connection points, 2 for each capacitor ! - the capacitors will conduct Hi frequency AC (your radio signal) but block any DC component.

But you still don't connect your 802 ground connection to ships ground.

And you still need an isolated power supply, or use the relay system I posted to keep the DC off the SSB ground...other wise that will come back through the seawater to your ships ground.

OR

Capacitors can also be used in the SSB ground with the same effect, to keep DC current from entering the seawater.....break the SSB ground connection after the tuner...between the tuner and the SSB ground plates.....best place is the copper foil....cut it across so there is no connection, and then solder 10 of those caps across the gap, side by side (ie in parallel)


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM 437, Papeete


Crosby Anchor Shackles

marksharki
 

Wichard makes wonderful stainless steel shackles used above the waterline. Like attaching sails to halyards.

We have many Wichard shackles on our boat. For use on ground tackle, underwater, in the ocean, I feel that high strength forged and galvanized steel is a better material choice. Crosby is an American company that makes hi quality galvanized steel shackles and other industrial rigging hardware. They are available proof tested with certifications for each individual part. Top of the line hardware for your ground tackle. GOOGLE Crosby shackles. Also, Defender Marine is starting to carry Crosby shackles. ( Not a large selection )

I hope this helps.

Mark Hanna

S/V  MARGUERITE 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Mark Erdos
 

Herbert,

 

This just went way over my head. If the capacitors are on parallel this means 4 connection points – two at each end? How is this connected to the single ground wire? Also, the boat ground is not used?

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

 

SM2K #275

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:08 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

If you want to be on the safe side you can put 10 small ceramic capacitors with 3900pF (2500V) each, solded together in parallel (will give 39nF(2500 V) with little Skin Effect) between the tuner ground (ssb ground) and the boat ground.  This will prevent any DC current (and will prevent electrolysis) but will give a solid HF AC connection.  

 

Herbert

KALI MERA, SN 120

Kusadasi

 


Am 07.06.2014 um 00:49 schrieb "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Alan is 100% correct. I spent hours (okay ~ days ~ or, perhaps weeks) researching this. The 802 cable that connects the 802 to the AT has a ground wire and should be connected to both the 802 and to the ground on the AT which in turn is connected to the copper strap in the lazarette. There is no connection to the ships common ground (yellow and green wiring system) .

 

I installed an isolated 24-12 power supply. Although this has a ground connection available, I was told not to connect it. Only the battery cables are connected to the isolated 24-12 power supply.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Yacht Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...

 

The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.

 

If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.

 

I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.

 

If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Herbert Lackner
 

If you want to be on the safe side you can put 10 small ceramic capacitors with 3900pF (2500V) each, solded together in parallel (will give 39nF(2500 V) with little Skin Effect) between the tuner ground (ssb ground) and the boat ground.  This will prevent any DC current (and will prevent electrolysis) but will give a solid HF AC connection.  

Herbert
KALI MERA, SN 120
Kusadasi


Am 07.06.2014 um 00:49 schrieb "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Alan is 100% correct. I spent hours (okay ~ days ~ or, perhaps weeks) researching this. The 802 cable that connects the 802 to the AT has a ground wire and should be connected to both the 802 and to the ground on the AT which in turn is connected to the copper strap in the lazarette. There is no connection to the ships common ground (yellow and green wiring system) .

 

I installed an isolated 24-12 power supply. Although this has a ground connection available, I was told not to connect it. Only the battery cables are connected to the isolated 24-12 power supply.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Yacht Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...

 

The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.

 

If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.

 

I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.

 

If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster on 54 wont go down

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Mark Erdos
 

Alan is 100% correct. I spent hours (okay ~ days ~ or, perhaps weeks) researching this. The 802 cable that connects the 802 to the AT has a ground wire and should be connected to both the 802 and to the ground on the AT which in turn is connected to the copper strap in the lazarette. There is no connection to the ships common ground (yellow and green wiring system) .

 

I installed an isolated 24-12 power supply. Although this has a ground connection available, I was told not to connect it. Only the battery cables are connected to the isolated 24-12 power supply.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Yacht Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

 

 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...

 

The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.

 

If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.

 

I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.

 

If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

Alan Leslie
 

Amel say don't  connect the SSB ground to the ships earth...


The 802 ground should be connected to the tuner ground and that connected to the copper strap in the lazarette only.


If you don't have an isolated 24 - 12v supply for the SSB, you need some way of isolating the negative supply of the SSB when not in use...at least for the 710, where the negative power line in the SSB is connected internally to the earth.


I posted a simple way of doing this that completely isolates the SSB when you turn the breaker off.


If you don't do this the negative supply will have a low current connection to ships ground through the seawater.


Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM437

Papeete


Re: Just testing

Scott
 

Hi Danny,
This is from Scott and Diane on SV Ati. We met you a year ago on Ocean Pearl in Opua (you showed us some salon dancing) and now own SM 202, SV Ati. We remember you well and have some pressing SM questions we wish to ask you via personal email, if possible. We are currently in the very shallow Turks and Caicois trending further south and east. Can you please email us at atioceania@... and E5U2582@... and we will write you back with our questions. Or even possibly contact us via Skype at harpodog. We would very much appreciate your wisdom and advice. Thank you. 
Fair winds,
Scott and Diane 
 


Icom M802 and AT140 tuner grounding

islandbwoy4434
 

My head spins every time I think about the floating DC ground and bonding system on Libby.

I have a singular question. Where do I connect the ground connection on the Icom M802 transceiver and AT140 tuner to? Given that I have maintained the floating ground integrity on our vessel, is it safe to connect to the ships bonding circuit? (yellow and green wiring system) 

For clarity, I have the tuner already connected to SSB copper foil in the back lazerette.


Any help is appreciated.


Terry&Dena

SV Libby

#196

Mission Bay, CA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rocna Anchor fit

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

What is a Crosby schackel? Have never heard about that brand. Is it as good as Wichard?

/Annsofie
S/Y Lady Annila
SM232

Skickat från min iPad

6 jun 2014 kl. 11:27 skrev "hannamj@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi All.

Some thoughts about New Generation Anchors.
Many people have given good reports about the Rocna anchors.  That being said...we chose to go with a 60 Lb. Manson Supreme (for our Sharki). Manson anchors are made in New Zealand using a higher grade of steel than the Rocna anchors. The Manson Supreme has a Lloyd's of London "Super High Holding" certificate. We use a Fortress anchor for our second anchor, kedge, stern etc. I would not be against having a Mantus Anchor as a spare primary anchor that can be stored disassembled and flat.  Please consider using high quality galvanized anchor shackles from Crosby (or similar). I see too many boats with high quality anchors attached to high quality chains using cheap Chinese or "no name" anchor shackles.  The small cost savings is not worth the loss of your Amel.  If you feel that you must use an anchor swivel, do not attach it directly to your anchor. Use a small length of chain between the anchor and swivel (attached with Crosby shackles) to prevent the swivel from being side loaded if the wind or current shifts. Also, I suggest NO stainless steel ground tackle.  I'm probably preaching to the choir...You are the captain of your vessel...YMMV.
FAIR WINDS.
Mark Hanna
S/V MARGUERITE


Re: Main outhaul line

Alan Leslie
 

9.2m finished length with a soft eye at each end...one soft eye has to be spliced in situ if you don't want to take the guides off the boom.


Cheers

Alan

SV Elyse SM 437

Papeete


Re: Main outhaul line

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Alan,

 

Thank you for the very useful information and experience.  How long a piece of Vectran did you need for the main outhaul?

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main boom attachment on SM

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Ian and Judy,

The photo of the bracket that you  sent me in the photo is identical to the one I replaced. The two screws just go through holes in the boom track.

If you cannot remove the screws you have to carefully drill them out

Once out ,hopefully they will just slide down the track and off the boom

If they do not move after the screws are removed  that is another project.

Do not try to force them off the boom by hammering on them , they will tear up the metal on the boom. Just a light tap and hopefully they will move.

 

If they do  not move after a few light taps write me again.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite SM 376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main boom attachment on SM

 

 

Hi Gary and anyone else who has replaced the attachment on their main boom,

Forewarned by you I checked our own attachment (14 years old and 56,000 miles ) and it was cracked but still hanging on. I have the replacement from Maud but am having real problems getting the stainless screws out of the  smaller aft attachment which I need to slide off before I can access the larger one . Tried sharp taps with a hammer but am in danger of blurring the slot on the bolt head. Can't use a blow torch for fear of damaging the paint on the boom.
  May just have to sacrifice the aft one and get a further replacement from Maud, but before I do that, has anyone any suggestions ?
    Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 , Gouvia, Greece



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] FIASCO is now Home

marksharki
 

Regarding battery chargers. Our boat has a 630 Amp Hr. house battery bank. Dock side we use a Mastervolt 50 Amp, 120/250V AC , 3 stage battery charger. This has been a very good charger. We bought the boat with a Zantrex battery charger. It died. We replaced it with a Zantrex Tru-Charge (sp) 40 Amp charger. It failed under warranty.  The replacement also failed. We then replaced it with the Mastervolt 50 Amp. Going on 2 years of continual use...perfect ! We use a stand alone 1800 Watt AC inverter and a small AC inverter for the TV.  Inverters should be sized to the expected load. A big inverter hooked to a small load is inefficient. 
Congratulations on your new Amel. We Love ours !
Mark Hanna
Amel Sharki NO. 49
S/V MARGUERITE 


Re: Rocna Anchor fit

marksharki
 

Hi All.
Some thoughts about New Generation Anchors.
Many people have given good reports about the Rocna anchors.  That being said...we chose to go with a 60 Lb. Manson Supreme (for our Sharki). Manson anchors are made in New Zealand using a higher grade of steel than the Rocna anchors. The Manson Supreme has a Lloyd's of London "Super High Holding" certificate. We use a Fortress anchor for our second anchor, kedge, stern etc. I would not be against having a Mantus Anchor as a spare primary anchor that can be stored disassembled and flat.  Please consider using high quality galvanized anchor shackles from Crosby (or similar). I see too many boats with high quality anchors attached to high quality chains using cheap Chinese or "no name" anchor shackles.  The small cost savings is not worth the loss of your Amel.  If you feel that you must use an anchor swivel, do not attach it directly to your anchor. Use a small length of chain between the anchor and swivel (attached with Crosby shackles) to prevent the swivel from being side loaded if the wind or current shifts. Also, I suggest NO stainless steel ground tackle.  I'm probably preaching to the choir...You are the captain of your vessel...YMMV.
FAIR WINDS.
Mark Hanna
S/V MARGUERITE