main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Mark Pitt

#1785

Hi all:

There are in-line TDS meters that attach to the water line
with John Guest quick connectors.  The sensor connects to a small
LCD display.  They run on batteries, one model on button cell
batteries and the other on 2 AAA.  Battery life is 1000 hours.
The meters cost less than $50.  I found them at
http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/water-tests.asp
and at
http://www.airwaterice.com/category/tdsmeters/
and a few other places on the web.  They seem to be
all of the same manufacture.  I am not sure how they
might fare in the marine environment, but for $50
and no installation hassles, they might be worth a try.

Mark Pitt ASM #419 Sabbatical III


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:

Gary,
My thought was to add a sensor and monitor the water output on acontinuous
basis from the water maker panel. What do you think? I have to takea closer
look at the wiring/plumbing  diagram of the watermaker to figure outwhat to
do.

I just heard from my friend who has an amel a year older than mine and
pickles his watermaker fro the southern hurricane season and whenaway from
the boat. He has had no problems with his unit and it is now 4 yearsold.
They are big time live aboards.


I think the thing they dragged across sea cow bay last time todredge it was
Kimberlite. We dragged and got stuck so many times I gave up.
Keep me posted Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite




-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005Eric:
I was thinking of just paralleling the spare sensor with the twowires that
go to the current
sensor and interposing a double pole double throw switch so that I could
place the
"testing"" sensor into a small container of sea water, throw theswitch and
see if it shuts
the system down.  I am wondering if the two minute timer works onboth ends
of the cycle
so that a momentary bump or hysteresis in the EC (electricalconductivity)
would not trip 
the system off line.  I would plan on testing this theory next time I am
aboard towards the
end of Jan 2006.

Sea Cow Bay is indeed shallow.  We wait for high tide, try to enter with
empty water tanks
and place the crew in the dinghy before running that final channel area.
They have not
dredged the channel but they dragged something back and forth thruit and I
believe it is
somewhat deeper as we didn't run aground the last two times inthere. Once,
two years
ago we ran so firmly aground that we had to kedge off.  Once in theEastern
portion of the
marina there is plenty of water.   Jim is surely a nice person and
knowledgable about
Amels, so it is comforting to leave the boat with him.  And the price is
half of what it is in
Nanny Cay.

Regards,  Gary

Gary,
How do you plan to add a second water sensor? Will you hook thisinto some
kind of alarm?  I was in sea cow bay last year and found theentrance too
shallow for me. Have they dredged the channel?
Please say hi to Jim woods for me.
Thanks
Eric





Yahoo! Groups Links

Aft cabin hatch and watermakers

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>

#1784

Hi Gary,
I am sure that a starboard hatch will give you a huge improvement in
ventilation whenever there is any sort of breeze. My hatch is just a
bog standard one in a grey polycarbonate. If anyone wants to do a bit
of perving good luck to them ! We shall at any event fit a curtain to
eliminate the sun whilst we are not on board.
I have Emailed Rod Boreham, the UK Agent for Dassalter suggesting that
he took a look at our web site. He has replied saying that there a
number of misunderstandings and is going to send me his opinion so
that I can post it here.

          Regards,   John   SM319

Perkins Prima M80T manuals

Zanareva

#1783

Hi everyone,

Does anyone have the service manual and parts manual for the Perkins
Prima M80T BB30143? Can I get a photocopy of these, at my cost? This
is the 80 hp four cylinder turbo that was factory installed in my 1989 
Super Maramu. My only alternative is to order from the Perkins
distributor at the cost of over $110.

Thanks
Richard Tate
SM #5 "Spice"

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1782

Gary,
What about this unit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HANNA-Grochek-pH-EC-TDS-CONDUCTIVITY-TESTER-Meter_W0
QQitemZ4425127508QQcategoryZ42291QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting


Did I mention my addition of volt/frequency meters and the engine exhaust
Temp monitor?
Fair Winds,
Eric

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:54 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Eric: 

I believe the model you want is 98129 .  The one you note below is model
981230, and its 
range of conductivity is in miliSiemens.  Dessalator says the system should
shut down at 
1,000 microSiemens and will run normally in the 300-400 microSiemens range,
so I think 
the one we want  is the one calibrated in microSiemens.  

I mis-spoke in my last post regarding the filter I put in place.   I
purchased the parts from 
West Marine as follows:  SKU 1196377 Shurflo carbon block filter $36.99,
SKU 1234251 
Shurflo mounting bracket kit $12.99, SKU 1194166 Shurflo Filter Housing
$47.99.   The 
only other thing I needed was some hose barb fittings, stainless worm
clamps,  and the 
1/2 ID hose.

Regards,  Gary     s/v Liahona
--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:

Hi,
Is this the meter you are using?

http://cgi.ebay.com/HANNA-DIGITAL-pH-HI-EC-TDS-CONDUCTIVITY-TESTER-METER_W0Q
QitemZ4426000413QQcategoryZ42291QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1780

Gary,
My thought was to add a sensor and monitor the water output on a continuous
basis from the water maker panel. What do you think? I have to take a closer
look at the wiring/plumbing  diagram of the watermaker to figure out what to
do.

I just heard from my friend who has an amel a year older than mine and
pickles his watermaker fro the southern hurricane season and when away from
the boat. He has had no problems with his unit and it is now 4 years old.
They are big time live aboards.
 

I think the thing they dragged across sea cow bay last time to dredge it was
Kimberlite. We dragged and got stuck so many times I gave up.
Keep me posted Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005Eric:  
I was thinking of just paralleling the spare sensor with the two wires that
go to the current 
sensor and interposing a double pole double throw switch so that I could
place the 
"testing"" sensor into a small container of sea water, throw the switch and
see if it shuts 
the system down.  I am wondering if the two minute timer works on both ends
of the cycle 
so that a momentary bump or hysteresis in the EC (electrical conductivity)
would not trip 
the system off line.  I would plan on testing this theory next time I am
aboard towards the 
end of Jan 2006.  

Sea Cow Bay is indeed shallow.  We wait for high tide, try to enter with
empty water tanks 
and place the crew in the dinghy before running that final channel area.
They have not 
dredged the channel but they dragged something back and forth thru it and I
believe it is 
somewhat deeper as we didn't run aground the last two times in there. Once,
two years 
ago we ran so firmly aground that we had to kedge off.  Once in the Eastern
portion of the 
marina there is plenty of water.   Jim is surely a nice person and
knowledgable about 
Amels, so it is comforting to leave the boat with him.  And the price is
half of what it is in 
Nanny Cay.

Regards,  Gary

Gary,
How do you plan to add a second water sensor? Will you hook this into some
kind of alarm?  I was in sea cow bay last year and found the entrance too
shallow for me. Have they dredged the channel?
Please say hi to Jim woods for me.
Thanks
Eric

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: New aft cabin hatch

amelliahona <no_reply@...>

#1781

11 Dec 2005
Hi John:

 I have long considered adding a hatch for the aft cabin.  We have not altered the bed in
the aft cabin as you have and so I would plan on placing the new hatch on the starboard
side.  I think that it will still improve ventilation dramatically even though it isn't behind
the port side opening window in the dodger.  What do you think?    We usually close the
dodger window night anyway because it almost always rains in the night.  Did you get the
frosted lexan type window like the hatches in the heads?

Thanks,  Gary Silver    s/v Liahona    Amel SM2000  Hull #335

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "John and Anne on Bali Hai" <hollamby@c...>
wrote:

Hello All,
We found the ventilation in the aft cabin very poor even with the aft
hatch wide open.So we bought a Vetus hatch and had it installed by a
freelance shipwright here in Malta.
He made up a teak mounting to go on the deck to provide a flat mount.
He sealed the balsa between the two layers of GRP with resin and then
cut a strip of white plastic and fixed that to the resin with contact
glue and made up mahogany frame to cover the underside in the cabin.
He had prefinished the mahogany with four coats of varnish.
The total cost was about £500stlg.
The opening is on the port side for two reasons. It is directly behind
the opening part of the windscreen and as we altered the aft cabin to
make a doublebunk across the boat with the pillow end on the starboard
side we did not want the draught or rain to disturb us.
The result is a huge improvement and we rarely open the aft hatch any
more.
We have added two pics at the end of the album SM319 in the photos
section of this site. (Nos 25 and 26).

           Best wishes,  Anne and John  SM 319

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

amelliahona <no_reply@...>

#1779

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005Eric:
I was thinking of just paralleling the spare sensor with the two wires that go to the current
sensor and interposing a double pole double throw switch so that I could place the
"testing"" sensor into a small container of sea water, throw the switch and see if it shuts
the system down.  I am wondering if the two minute timer works on both ends of the cycle
so that a momentary bump or hysteresis in the EC (electrical conductivity) would not trip
the system off line.  I would plan on testing this theory next time I am aboard towards the
end of Jan 2006.

Sea Cow Bay is indeed shallow.  We wait for high tide, try to enter with empty water tanks
and place the crew in the dinghy before running that final channel area.  They have not
dredged the channel but they dragged something back and forth thru it and I believe it is
somewhat deeper as we didn't run aground the last two times in there. Once, two years
ago we ran so firmly aground that we had to kedge off.  Once in the Eastern portion of the
marina there is plenty of water.   Jim is surely a nice person and knowledgable about
Amels, so it is comforting to leave the boat with him.  And the price is half of what it is in
Nanny Cay.

Regards,  Gary

Gary,
How do you plan to add a second water sensor? Will you hook this into some
kind of alarm?  I was in sea cow bay last year and found the entrance too
shallow for me. Have they dredged the channel?
Please say hi to Jim woods for me.
Thanks
Eric

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

amelliahona <no_reply@...>

#1778

Eric:

I believe the model you want is 98129 .  The one you note below is model 981230, and its
range of conductivity is in miliSiemens.  Dessalator says the system should shut down at
1,000 microSiemens and will run normally in the 300-400 microSiemens range, so I think
the one we want  is the one calibrated in microSiemens.

I mis-spoke in my last post regarding the filter I put in place.   I purchased the parts from
West Marine as follows:  SKU 1196377 Shurflo carbon block filter $36.99,  SKU 1234251
Shurflo mounting bracket kit $12.99, SKU 1194166 Shurflo Filter Housing $47.99.   The
only other thing I needed was some hose barb fittings, stainless worm clamps,  and the
1/2 ID hose.

Regards,  Gary     s/v Liahona
--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:

Hi,
Is this the meter you are using?


http://cgi.ebay.com/HANNA-DIGITAL-pH-HI-EC-TDS-CONDUCTIVITY-TESTER-METER_W0Q
QitemZ4426000413QQcategoryZ42291QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1777

Hi,
Is this the meter you are using?


http://cgi.ebay.com/HANNA-DIGITAL-pH-HI-EC-TDS-CONDUCTIVITY-TESTER-METER_W0Q
QitemZ4426000413QQcategoryZ42291QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 6:04 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "markmpitt" <mark_pitt@b...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005Hi Mark:  

Thanks for your reply.  I visited the www.airwaterice.com site and those do
indeed seem to 
to be the membranes that we need.  What a relief to find them at that price.
I will call 
them tomorrow to verify.  Our system uses 2 membranes only.  The FilmTec
SW30-2540 
membranes are rated at 700 gpd (gallons per day) = which comes out to
roughly 233 
liters per hour, Given that, I am not sure why our systems only produce 120
liters per 
hour.  Perhaps it is just the inefficiencies of the system.

My TDS meter is about the same as yours.  I see on eBay that Hana makes
several EC 
(Electrical conductivity)/TDS/pH meters for about $120 USD.  I haven't
searched up a 
Chlorine meter yet.

I am not sure I would replace my membranes if all seemed well.  I would
monitor them 
closely though.  I haven't discussed with anyone if a set of spares could be
purchased prior 
to a long passage and if they would store well, or what their shelf life in
storage is.

My flush water chlorine filter is just a single Pur Water Filter housing
(almost identical to 
the ones Dessalator used) that I mounted to the front of the exisiting two
filter housing's 
mounting bracket, and plumbed into the system.  I brought the hose from the
fresh water 
line to the input side of the carbon filter housing, then a hose from the
ouput side to the 
input side of the flush valve that is mounted on the low pressure feed water
pump.  This 
way all the fresh water going into that flush valve passes first thru the
carbon block filter.  
The carbon block filter was also purchased from West Marine.  

As to the replacing of the membrane's, I just don't know.  From other posts
on this site it 
appears that it is not a big job.  I asked Dessalator for a parts diagram or
membrane 
replacement instructions and they said that they didn't have such items.
They told me it 
was really a straight forward job to replace the membranes.  

Regards,  Gary

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Water Maker Info

amelliahona <no_reply@...>

#1776

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "markmpitt" <mark_pitt@b...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005Hi Mark:

Thanks for your reply.  I visited the www.airwaterice.com site and those do indeed seem to
to be the membranes that we need.  What a relief to find them at that price.  I will call
them tomorrow to verify.  Our system uses 2 membranes only.  The FilmTec SW30-2540
membranes are rated at 700 gpd (gallons per day) = which comes out to roughly 233
liters per hour, Given that, I am not sure why our systems only produce 120 liters per
hour.  Perhaps it is just the inefficiencies of the system.

My TDS meter is about the same as yours.  I see on eBay that Hana makes several EC
(Electrical conductivity)/TDS/pH meters for about $120 USD.  I haven't searched up a
Chlorine meter yet.

I am not sure I would replace my membranes if all seemed well.  I would monitor them
closely though.  I haven't discussed with anyone if a set of spares could be purchased prior
to a long passage and if they would store well, or what their shelf life in storage is.

My flush water chlorine filter is just a single Pur Water Filter housing (almost identical to
the ones Dessalator used) that I mounted to the front of the exisiting two filter housing's
mounting bracket, and plumbed into the system.  I brought the hose from the fresh water
line to the input side of the carbon filter housing, then a hose from the ouput side to the
input side of the flush valve that is mounted on the low pressure feed water pump.  This
way all the fresh water going into that flush valve passes first thru the carbon block filter.
The carbon block filter was also purchased from West Marine.

As to the replacing of the membrane's, I just don't know.  From other posts on this site it
appears that it is not a big job.  I asked Dessalator for a parts diagram or membrane
replacement instructions and they said that they didn't have such items.  They told me it
was really a straight forward job to replace the membranes.

Regards,  Gary

Seeking crew position

jgod200 <jgod200@...>

#1775

I am in the market for an amel and I would like to crew on one if possible first.  I am  located
in Miami but will travel at my expence.  Short notice is not a problem and you can email me
at jgod200@hotmail.com.     John Godby

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1774

Mark,
Maybe we will bump into you along the way.
There are 6 Amels in NZ right now.
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of markmpitt
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 11:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Eric:
   We will leave Rhode Island in the fall of 2006 to do the Coconut
Milk Run via the Panama Canal.  We hope to be in
New Zealand one year later.  The idea is to circumnavigate,
but we will see how we feel once we get to New Zealand.

Best,  Mark
ASM 2000 #419 Sabbatical III

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:

Mark,
Where will you be off to?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite











-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of markmpitt
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Hi Gary:

    I am thinking about replacing my watermaker membranes.  I have the
same 220 vac Dessalator as you have.  I searched the web and found
Dow Filmtec SW30-2540 membranes for as low as $177 at
www.airwaterice.com. Is that the correct model?
How many membranes does this watermaker
model use?  Is it difficult to replace the membranes?

    I have a TDS meter I bought from amazon.com for less than $40 and
it suggests that my water quality is still good but I would like
to replace the membranes anyway in the summer before  we
leave on year long voyage.  May I ask what chlorine tester you plan to
use?
I use a chlorine pre-filter at the dock whenever I put in
town water, but I have never tested the output.  My watermaker
is, like yours was, pickled for 6 months each winter with lots
of sodium metabisulfite and potable anti-freeze.

    Thanks.

    Mark Pitt "Sabbatical III"  ASM 2000 hull #419


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@y...>wrote:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:  

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the 
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure. 

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the 
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker.  It had 
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per 
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the normal 
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm 
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put 
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running the water 
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming 
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y" 
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the product 
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.  Initially 
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we 
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one day, 
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the 
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it 
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green 
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output 
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about 
9,000 ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and 
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting.  They 
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the 
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane.  This I did, and 
both membranes were putting out bad water.  Meanwhile the green light 
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure 
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working 
correctly and my membranes are shot.  We finished the last three days 
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.  
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1 
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec 
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700 
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).  

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens 
conductivity.  They state that the normal output should be between 
600 to 700 microSiemens.    1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to 
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a 
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan to conduct further testing once 
my system is re-plumbed. 

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker, 
for what they are worth:

1.	PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will 
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an 
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling 
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also 
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I will use 
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been somewhat 
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon 
bucket of pickling water.  

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush 
system.  It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive) 
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush 
cycle  upon system shut down.  It has no provision, as far as I can 
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2.	CHLORINE:  I have installed an in line carbon block filter in 
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the 
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.  

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I 
had sanitized the water system with chlorine.  After sanitizing I had 
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine 
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the 
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a 
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and 
water from dockside.

3.	BRACKISH WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake 
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120 
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good 
for the water maker.  I won't use the water maker in brackish water 
again.

4.	CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and 
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5.	PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID 
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe, 
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I 
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass 
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly. 

6.	CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of 
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6 
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.  

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal, 
BVI







 
Yahoo! Groups Links






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Mark Pitt

#1773

Eric:
   We will leave Rhode Island in the fall of 2006 to do the Coconut
Milk Run via the Panama Canal.  We hope to be in
New Zealand one year later.  The idea is to circumnavigate,
but we will see how we feel once we get to New Zealand.

Best,  Mark
ASM 2000 #419 Sabbatical III

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, eric <kimberlite@o...> wrote:

Mark,
Where will you be off to?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite











-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of markmpitt
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Hi Gary:

    I am thinking about replacing my watermaker membranes.  I have the
same 220 vac Dessalator as you have.  I searched the web and found
Dow Filmtec SW30-2540 membranes for as low as $177 at
www.airwaterice.com. Is that the correct model?
How many membranes does this watermaker
model use?  Is it difficult to replace the membranes?

    I have a TDS meter I bought from amazon.com for less than $40 and
it suggests that my water quality is still good but I would like
to replace the membranes anyway in the summer before  we
leave on year long voyage.  May I ask what chlorine tester you plan to
use?
I use a chlorine pre-filter at the dock whenever I put in
town water, but I have never tested the output.  My watermaker
is, like yours was, pickled for 6 months each winter with lots
of sodium metabisulfite and potable anti-freeze.

    Thanks.

    Mark Pitt "Sabbatical III"  ASM 2000 hull #419


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@y...>wrote:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker.  It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.  Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting.  They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane.  This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water.  Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot.  We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).  

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity.  They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens.    1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1.	PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system.  It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle  upon system shut down.  It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2.	CHLORINE:  I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine.  After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3.	BRACKISH WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker.  I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4.	CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5.	PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6.	CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI








Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1772

Mark,
Where will you be off to?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of markmpitt
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 10:40 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Hi Gary:

    I am thinking about replacing my watermaker membranes.  I have the
same 220 vac Dessalator as you have.  I searched the web and found
Dow Filmtec SW30-2540 membranes for as low as $177 at
www.airwaterice.com. Is that the correct model?
How many membranes does this watermaker
model use?  Is it difficult to replace the membranes?

    I have a TDS meter I bought from amazon.com for less than $40 and
it suggests that my water quality is still good but I would like
to replace the membranes anyway in the summer before  we
leave on year long voyage.  May I ask what chlorine tester you plan to
use?
I use a chlorine pre-filter at the dock whenever I put in
town water, but I have never tested the output.  My watermaker
is, like yours was, pickled for 6 months each winter with lots
of sodium metabisulfite and potable anti-freeze.

    Thanks.

    Mark Pitt "Sabbatical III"  ASM 2000 hull #419

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@y...> wrote:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:  

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the 
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure. 

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the 
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker.  It had 
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per 
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the normal 
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm 
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put 
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running the water 
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming 
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y" 
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the product 
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.  Initially 
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we 
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one day, 
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the 
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it 
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green 
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output 
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about 
9,000 ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and 
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting.  They 
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the 
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane.  This I did, and 
both membranes were putting out bad water.  Meanwhile the green light 
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure 
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working 
correctly and my membranes are shot.  We finished the last three days 
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.  
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1 
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec 
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700 
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).  

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens 
conductivity.  They state that the normal output should be between 
600 to 700 microSiemens.    1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to 
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a 
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan to conduct further testing once 
my system is re-plumbed. 

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker, 
for what they are worth:

1.	PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will 
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an 
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling 
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also 
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I will use 
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been somewhat 
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon 
bucket of pickling water.  

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush 
system.  It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive) 
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush 
cycle  upon system shut down.  It has no provision, as far as I can 
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2.	CHLORINE:  I have installed an in line carbon block filter in 
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the 
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.  

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I 
had sanitized the water system with chlorine.  After sanitizing I had 
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine 
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the 
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a 
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and 
water from dockside.

3.	BRACKISH WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake 
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120 
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good 
for the water maker.  I won't use the water maker in brackish water 
again.

4.	CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and 
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5.	PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID 
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe, 
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I 
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass 
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly. 

6.	CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of 
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6 
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.  

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal, 
BVI

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Water Maker Info

Mark Pitt

#1771

Hi Gary:

    I am thinking about replacing my watermaker membranes.  I have the
same 220 vac Dessalator as you have.  I searched the web and found
Dow Filmtec SW30-2540 membranes for as low as $177 at
www.airwaterice.com. Is that the correct model?
How many membranes does this watermaker
model use?  Is it difficult to replace the membranes?

    I have a TDS meter I bought from amazon.com for less than $40 and
it suggests that my water quality is still good but I would like
to replace the membranes anyway in the summer before  we
leave on year long voyage.  May I ask what chlorine tester you plan to
use?
I use a chlorine pre-filter at the dock whenever I put in
town water, but I have never tested the output.  My watermaker
is, like yours was, pickled for 6 months each winter with lots
of sodium metabisulfite and potable anti-freeze.

    Thanks.

    Mark Pitt "Sabbatical III"  ASM 2000 hull #419

Show quoted text

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@y...> wrote:

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure.

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker.  It had
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the normal
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running the water
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y"
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the product
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.  Initially
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one day,
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about
9,000 ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting.  They
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane.  This I did, and
both membranes were putting out bad water.  Meanwhile the green light
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working
correctly and my membranes are shot.  We finished the last three days
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens
conductivity.  They state that the normal output should be between
600 to 700 microSiemens.    1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan to conduct further testing once
my system is re-plumbed.

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker,
for what they are worth:

1.	PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I will use
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been somewhat
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon
bucket of pickling water.

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush
system.  It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive)
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush
cycle  upon system shut down.  It has no provision, as far as I can
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2.	CHLORINE:  I have installed an in line carbon block filter in
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I
had sanitized the water system with chlorine.  After sanitizing I had
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and
water from dockside.

3.	BRACKISH WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good
for the water maker.  I won't use the water maker in brackish water
again.

4.	CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5.	PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe,
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly.

6.	CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal,
BVI

Watermaker winterizing, etc.

rbenven44 <no_reply@...>

#1770

We have over 400 hours on our watermaker (40 l/hr, 24 V version)
during 8 years of use.  We have pickled it with sodium metabisulphite
(?) every time we leave the boat for more than a week, or at least
twice a year.  No problems yet!
  Twice we have winterized it.  The first time we didn't drain the
sight glass flowmeter on the control panel, and it broke (replacement
cost for a 2-inch long glass tube was $250 from Dessalator!!).  The
second time I drained all the good water lines coming out of the
membranes and disassembled and drained the control panel.  Time
consuming, but worth it!
  We winterized with glycerine, mixed in with the pickling solution,
as recommended by Dessalator.  However, I have asked several US-based
watermaker companies about winterizing, and they all recommend non-
toxic (pink) antifreeze.  They say it takes the place of pickling and
glycerine.  Now I plan to use that every time I leave the boat.  One
company said that their new units come filled with pink anti-freeze
from the factory to protect them in shipping.
   Finally, on the question of the salinity sensor, I believe that it
does not work properly.  When we turn on our unit, the light turns
green after 2 minutes.  However, when I taste the water from the tap
on the control panel at the 2-minute mark, it is still very salty.
It only gets drinkable at the 4-minute mark.  I have never had the
sensor shut the unit down.  So I believe in checking the taste of the
water periodically during production, rather than relying on the
sensor.
   Regards to all,

Roy on Excalibur SM #195

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1768

Gary,
How do you plan to add a second water sensor? Will you hook this into some
kind of alarm?  I was in sea cow bay last year and found the entrance too
shallow for me. Have they dredged the channel?
Please say hi to Jim woods for me.
Thanks
Eric

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:  

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the 
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure. 

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the 
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker.  It had 
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per 
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the normal 
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm 
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put 
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running the water 
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming 
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y" 
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the product 
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.  Initially 
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we 
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one day, 
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the 
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it 
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green 
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output 
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about 
9,000 ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and 
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting.  They 
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the 
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane.  This I did, and 
both membranes were putting out bad water.  Meanwhile the green light 
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure 
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working 
correctly and my membranes are shot.  We finished the last three days 
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.  
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1 
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec 
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700 
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).  

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens 
conductivity.  They state that the normal output should be between 
600 to 700 microSiemens.    1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to 
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a 
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan to conduct further testing once 
my system is re-plumbed. 

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker, 
for what they are worth:

1.	PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will 
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an 
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling 
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also 
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I will use 
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been somewhat 
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon 
bucket of pickling water.  

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush 
system.  It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive) 
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush 
cycle  upon system shut down.  It has no provision, as far as I can 
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2.	CHLORINE:  I have installed an in line carbon block filter in 
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the 
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.  

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I 
had sanitized the water system with chlorine.  After sanitizing I had 
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine 
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the 
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a 
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and 
water from dockside.

3.	BRACKISH WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake 
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120 
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good 
for the water maker.  I won't use the water maker in brackish water 
again.

4.	CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and 
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5.	PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID 
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe, 
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I 
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass 
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly. 

6.	CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of 
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6 
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.  

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal, 
BVI 

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

eric freedman

#1769

Gary,
Where did you get a TDS meter?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

9 Dec 2005

Hi Eric and others:  

On our recent sail from Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the 
BVI we had an interesting water maker failure. 

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) meter to monitor the 
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water maker.  It had 
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm (parts per 
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the normal 
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to 600 ppm 
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to put 
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running the water 
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm coming 
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed a "Y" 
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the product 
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.  Initially 
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and we 
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one day, 
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the 
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it 
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green 
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output 
of the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about 
9,000 ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and 
contaminated our entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about trouble-shooting.  They 
suggested that I individually test each membrane by disconnecting the 
gray plastic fittings at the end of each membrane.  This I did, and 
both membranes were putting out bad water.  Meanwhile the green light 
remained on and the in line sensor appeared normal. I am not sure 
what happened but it appears that my diverting system isn't working 
correctly and my membranes are shot.  We finished the last three days 
of our passage with emergency water supplies, juices and soda pop.  
My emergency hand pump RO water maker produced 1 quart of water per 1 
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the membranes,(Dow company FilmTec 
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water FilmTec membranes about $700 
USD each), and end caps and seals from Dessalator for $640 USD).  

Dessaltor says the system should divert at 1,000 microSiemens 
conductivity.  They state that the normal output should be between 
600 to 700 microSiemens.    1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to 
1,000 ohms of resistance or about 480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a 
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan to conduct further testing once 
my system is re-plumbed. 

Here are my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker, 
for what they are worth:

1.	PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my system again. I will 
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every week or plumb an 
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite pickling 
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and also 
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I will use 
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been somewhat 
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon 
bucket of pickling water.  

I inquired from Dessalator about their automatic fresh water flush 
system.  It is my understanding that retrofit is possible (expensive) 
and that the fresh water flush from Dessalator only activates a flush 
cycle  upon system shut down.  It has no provision, as far as I can 
determine, to flush on a weekly basis while the boat is un-attended

2.	CHLORINE:  I have installed an in line carbon block filter in 
the fresh water flush line so that all water going through the 
membranes will have passed through a carbon filter.  

While I had always been careful to charcoal filter dockside water I 
had sanitized the water system with chlorine.  After sanitizing I had 
pumped the tank dry and flushed the entire system again with chlorine 
free water but perhaps there was enough residual chlorine on the 
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes. I will purchase a 
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush water and 
water from dockside.

3.	BRACKISH WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake 
Bay for several months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120 
l/min of production but even so brackish water is evidently not good 
for the water maker.  I won't use the water maker in brackish water 
again.

4.	CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and 
Chlorine levels with religious zeal.

5.	PERIODIC TEST THE CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID 
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe, 
attach the wires from the control unit via a switch so that I 
can "sense" some sea water at the flick of switch and test the bypass 
circuitry and solenoid to verify that they are activating correctly. 

6.	CARRY MORE EMERGENCY WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By the way my water maker only had 185 hours of 
use on it over 4 years with periods of pickling lasting up to 6 
months.

I welcome any thoughts from other owners.  

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM 2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea Cow Bay, Tortoal, 
BVI 

Yahoo! Groups Links

Watermakers

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>

#1766

Hi Steve,
Careless of me. the full address is    rod.boreham@advanceyachts.co.uk

       Regards   John   SM 319

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

dlm48@...

#1767

In a message dated 10/12/2005 04:40:31 GMT Standard Time,  
no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:

9 Dec  2005

Hi Eric and others:  

On our recent sail from  Portsmouth, Virginia to Bermuda and then the 
BVI we had an interesting  water maker failure. 

I had purchased a Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)  meter to monitor the 
water output of my 120 liter 220 VAC Dessalator water  maker.  It had 
been consistently putting out water with about 350 ppm  (parts per 
million) of TDS water.  This is evidently well within the  normal 
limits for our water makers.  Tap water tended to be 500 to  600 ppm 
even after we ran it through the carbon filters we always use to  put 
dockside water in the tank.   I had noticed after running  the water 
maker once that the TDS raised from 350 ppm to about 900 ppm  coming 
out of the tap.  This puzzled me so I purchased and installed  a "Y" 
valve for the product water line.  I plumbed this into the  product 
water line just where it dumps into the fresh water tanks.   Initially 
the water maker was putting out 350 ppm water at this point and  we 
continued to have good quality water for several days.  Then one  day, 
about half way through our passage, I drew a glass of water from the  
filtered water tap and it tasted salty.  I measured the TDS and it  
was about 4,000 ppm.  I fired up the water maker and with the green  
light on, and the system producing water I tested the direct output 
of  the water maker, sure enough the product water was measuring about 
9,000  ppm.  The water maker failed to divert bad water and 
contaminated our  entire water supply.

I emailed Dessalator and inquired about  trouble-shooting.  They 
suggested that I individually test each  membrane by disconnecting the 
gray plastic fittings at the end of each  membrane.  This I did, and 
both membranes were putting out bad  water.  Meanwhile the green light 
remained on and the in line sensor  appeared normal. I am not sure 
what happened but it appears that my  diverting system isn't working 
correctly and my membranes are shot.   We finished the last three days 
of our passage with emergency water  supplies, juices and soda pop.  
My emergency hand pump RO water maker  produced 1 quart of water per 1 
hour of pumping.  You sweat almost as  much water as you pumped.

I am in the process of replacing the  membranes,(Dow company FilmTec 
2540SW, 2.5 inch by 40 inch sea water  FilmTec membranes about $700 
USD each), and end caps and seals from  Dessalator for $640 USD).  

Dessaltor says the system should  divert at 1,000 microSiemens 
conductivity.  They state that the  normal output should be between 
600 to 700 microSiemens.     1,000 microSiemens equates roughly to 
1,000 ohms of resistance or about  480 ppm of NaCL. I don't have a 
direct conversion to TDS ppm.  I plan  to conduct further testing once 
my system is re-plumbed. 

Here are  my observations about ensuring longevity of the water maker, 
for what they  are worth:

1.    PICKLING: I will try to never pickle my  system again. I will 
hire someone to fresh water flush the system every  week or plumb an 
automatic fresh water flush. The Sodium MetaBisulfite  pickling 
solution is corrosive to the seals on the pumps and end caps and  also 
to the metal pump shafts etc.  If I absolutely must pickle I  will use 
the absolute minimum concentration of bisulfite.  I had been  somewhat 
cavalier about the amount of pickling agent I used in my 5 gallon  
bucket of pickling water.  

I inquired from Dessalator about  their automatic fresh water flush 
system.  It is my understanding  that retrofit is possible (expensive) 
and that the fresh water flush from  Dessalator only activates a flush 
cycle  upon system shut down.   It has no provision, as far as I can 
determine, to flush on a weekly basis  while the boat is un-attended

2.    CHLORINE:  I have  installed an in line carbon block filter in 
the fresh water flush line so  that all water going through the 
membranes will have passed through a  carbon filter.  

While I had always been careful to charcoal  filter dockside water I 
had sanitized the water system with  chlorine.  After sanitizing I had 
pumped the tank dry and flushed the  entire system again with chlorine 
free water but perhaps there was enough  residual chlorine on the 
surface of the tank to have damaged my membranes.  I will purchase a 
chlorine meter and monitor chlorine levels in the flush  water and 
water from dockside.

3.    BRACKISH  WATER:  I had used the water maker in the Chesapeake 
Bay for several  months, (brackish water). I had never exceeded 120 
l/min of production but  even so brackish water is evidently not good 
for the water maker.  I  won't use the water maker in brackish water 
again.

4.     CARFUL MONITORING:  I will measure TDS, Conductivity, and 
Chlorine  levels with religious zeal.

5.    PERIODIC TEST THE  CONDUCTIVITY SENSOR AND BYPASS SOLENOID 
FUNCTIONALITY.  I plan to use  a spare Dessalator  conductivity probe, 
attach the wires from the  control unit via a switch so that I 
can "sense" some sea water at the  flick of switch and test the bypass 
circuitry and solenoid to verify that  they are activating correctly. 

6.    CARRY MORE EMERGENCY  WATER IN JERRY CANS ON LONG PASSAGES.

Just my thoughts.   By  the way my water maker only had 185 hours of 
use on it over 4 years with  periods of pickling lasting up to 6 
months.

I welcome any thoughts  from other owners.  

Regards,  Gary Silver
Amel SM  2000  Hull # 335       Liahona    lying Sea  Cow Bay, Tortoal, 
BVI 






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i have worked on repaired five watermakers now and ALL the problems stemmed  
from picking them :-(
 
i think the FWF is a good thing.  I posted to someone on this list  that 
while living aboard in the Caribbean using a Spectra WM we did double  
desalination with a few divert valves - input from the water tank not the sea -  the 
waste going back to the water tanks when doing DD - and another one to  collect 
the DD water in jugs - the PPM reading was non existent and  the water was so 
sweet.
 
Their reply was that this could de bad for the membranes i don't see this  
myself (waiting for the experts to pipe in here) as most watermakers recommend a 
 FWF at the end of the cycle - but then i am no expert here only have some  
experience getting them back working.
 
from my limited experience the worst thing you can do to a water maker  after 
pickling it (which i would not recommend) is not to use it daily or every  
two or three days or weekly as a minimum.
 
how you achieve a weekly FWF when you are off the boat is  difficult but not 
impossible with some lateral thinking and a few changes to the  plumbing.
 
 regards
 
David