Date   

Cutter rig, inner forestay

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hello Eric,
I wrote about this on 15 October, message no 1691. Looking at that I
see that I did not say that you would have to get a new chain plate
made to be fixed through the foredeck and secured to the bulkhead.
If you use it for a storm jib the sheets would have to come inside the
main shrouds. If you are using it for a staysail you would probably
need to have a new sheeting track inside the main shrouds but your
sail maker would be able to advise you where etc.

Happy Christmas from Anne and John SM 319


inner forestay

eric freedman
 

Has anyone added an inner forestay to a Super Maramu.
If so please tell me about it
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water Maker Discussion with Rod Borham

eric freedman
 

Hi,
I too believe I have been overdoing my pickling of the watermaker.
I pickle it for the summer when I am in harbor in new york , and every month
when I leave the boat in the Carib.
What is the correct mixture of sodium metabisulfite and water?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 3:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water Maker Discussion with Rod Borham

18 December 2005

Steve:

Thank you for Rod's correct email address. He called me within an
hour of my email to him. We had a long discussion on a host of
topics related to the Dessalator water maker, FilmTec membranes,
water maker care and feeding, design philosophy etc. I am preparing
a summary of that discussion that I will post here. He is also going
to prepare a post for this site along with the specifications for the
o-rings used on the membrane end caps and detailed concentration
specifications for the Sodium Metabisulfite pickling solution.

My bottom line is that I will be installing a continuous EC
(Electrical Conductivity) monitor with alarm capability in my
system. I am considering the Omega CDCN201 Mini Panel Mount
Conductivity and TDS Controller with Alarm Modes. You can see it at
omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=CDCN201&nav= or just google up
CDCN201. It is available in 12 volt DC or 220 volt AC 50-60 Hertz.

Steve, your understanding as summarized from Rod is basically what I
heard also. More to follow,

Gary Silver AmelSM2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona







Yahoo! Groups Links


Water Maker Discussion with Rod Borham

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

18 December 2005

Steve:

Thank you for Rod's correct email address. He called me within an
hour of my email to him. We had a long discussion on a host of
topics related to the Dessalator water maker, FilmTec membranes,
water maker care and feeding, design philosophy etc. I am preparing
a summary of that discussion that I will post here. He is also going
to prepare a post for this site along with the specifications for the
o-rings used on the membrane end caps and detailed concentration
specifications for the Sodium Metabisulfite pickling solution.

My bottom line is that I will be installing a continuous EC
(Electrical Conductivity) monitor with alarm capability in my
system. I am considering the Omega CDCN201 Mini Panel Mount
Conductivity and TDS Controller with Alarm Modes. You can see it at
omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=CDCN201&nav= or just google up
CDCN201. It is available in 12 volt DC or 220 volt AC 50-60 Hertz.

Steve, your understanding as summarized from Rod is basically what I
heard also. More to follow,

Gary Silver AmelSM2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

Gary,

I'd be happy to forward you Rod's phone number. I'll also forward the list of questions I had sent to Rod for clarification.

Rod did have explanations for the apparent diverter inconsistencies, but I hesitate to try to relay them in case I confuse things even more than they are already. I'll give it a shot, and if I'm not 100% correct, hopefully Rod can clarify when he posts his comments.

As I understand Rod's explanation, the Dessalator systems are designed to over ride the sensor at 2 minutes. This is design intent so that an owner isn't deprived of the watermaker due solely to a defective sensor. If the green light comes on in some time period other than 2 minutes, it means the sensor has done its job and the changeover valve has been switched from the default overboard position, to the tank. If, however, the green light comes on at "exactly 2 minutes", it means the sensor has been over ridden. At this point, it's up to the owner to decide whether the cause is a defective sensor, or a defective fresh water product.

There are two steps to this process. First, disconnect the outlet hose from the manifold and taste test it for salinity (or with a TDS metre if you have one). If you can't taste salt, the water is acceptable...pointing to a defective sensor. If you can taste salt, the next step is to verify the flow volume by draining the output flow from the disconnected hose into a graduated measuring container (eg. a one litre bottle) for a fixed period of time. This will give you a rough measurement for the current litres per hour output. If it is no more than 20% to 25% over the rated output for your model (eg. 200 l/hr for a 160 l/hr model), the membranes are intact. If it is beyond 25%, too much water is getting through...indicating either a ruptured membrane, or a defective "O" ring.

I was writing frantically as Rod explained, so I missed a couple of things. One of those things, now that I think about it, is key. I'm not sure whether the changeover valve is designed to stay in the default overboard position when the 2 minute over ride is activated. It would make sense to me for it to do this, otherwise a defective sensor will always result in questionable product being piped into the tank after 2 minutes. This would defeat the purpose of having a sensor in the first place.

That said, if your tests verify you have a good product, there's also a way to manually over ride the default overboard changeover valve position. There's a small grey button on the side of the changeover valve box located at the top of the product flow tube on the back of the control panel. Pressing this button and rotating it one quarter turn, will manually position the valve such that the watermaker output flows to the tank.

Rod was clear in his disclaimer, that just because Dessalator has designed this feature into their products, doesn't mean that every boat manufacturer equipping their boats with a Dessalator has left them that way. It could be possible for AMEL to have modified it in some manner.

As I said, I'm a complete novice with regard to watermakers. I hope this explanation makes sense to those of you familiar with their operation.

Rod mentioned that the newer models are already equipped with the programmed flushing cycle at the end of each watermaking operation. Sorry, but I didn't ask if it was available as a field modification, or the cost if it was. I also didn't ask about it's ability to be programmed for automatic flushings when the boat was unattended. I was primarily focussed on freeze prevention/propylene glycol matters, so I forgot about some obvious things.

Steve



amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
16 Dec 2005

Hi Steve:

Evidently the Yahoo system truncates email address' that are imbedded in messages.
Probably to prevent mining of email address by spamers.

The copy of your message that came to my personal email box had the entire address. I
have tried resending my email. Would you mind trying to send me a private email with
Rod's phone number.

I must admit that I was very cavalier about the amount of sodium metabisulfite that I used
when pickling my system. When Olivier taught us about this he said something to the
effect of, "put a little of this in a bucket of water". I assumed if a little was good more was
better so I would routinely use about two cap fulls of the powder in a 2 1/2 gal bucket of
water. I now know that quantitiy is way way way too much. So I have nobody to blame
except myself.

Did Rod indicate any thoughts about why the diverter system didn't work?

Did he have any more information about the new Dessalator timer system and if it can be
programmed to flush on a specific schedule or if it only is capable of flushing upon
completion of the water making cycle? Dessalator indicated that the timer system could
be retrofit for about $1,000 USD.

Thanks,

Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335








SPONSORED LINKS
Sailing Sailing yacht Amel Boating sailing

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "amelyachtowners" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

16 Dec 2005

Hi Steve:

Evidently the Yahoo system truncates email address' that are imbedded in messages.
Probably to prevent mining of email address by spamers.

The copy of your message that came to my personal email box had the entire address. I
have tried resending my email. Would you mind trying to send me a private email with
Rod's phone number.

I must admit that I was very cavalier about the amount of sodium metabisulfite that I used
when pickling my system. When Olivier taught us about this he said something to the
effect of, "put a little of this in a bucket of water". I assumed if a little was good more was
better so I would routinely use about two cap fulls of the powder in a 2 1/2 gal bucket of
water. I now know that quantitiy is way way way too much. So I have nobody to blame
except myself.

Did Rod indicate any thoughts about why the diverter system didn't work?

Did he have any more information about the new Dessalator timer system and if it can be
programmed to flush on a specific schedule or if it only is capable of flushing upon
completion of the water making cycle? Dessalator indicated that the timer system could
be retrofit for about $1,000 USD.

Thanks,

Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335


[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

maramu_49 <maramu_49@...>
 

Apparently, something truncated the email address as pasted. I'll
try again.

rod.boreham@advanceyacht.co.uk

Steve


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, Steve Constantine
<maramu_49@y...> wrote:

Gary,

There was a typo in the email address John gave us for Rod
Boreham. It's:
rod.boreham@a... <rod.boreham@a...>.

I spoke with Rod for about an hour yesterday about several of
the issues discussed on this board. He was very helpful, and
clarified all of my concerns and questions. As John said, there are
a lot of misconceptions floating around. Rod is apparently going to
post a reply clarifying a lot of the issues we've all raised. Since
I've never even operated a watermaker before, I'm in no way the
least bit qualified to properly explain his recommendations. I'll
leave that to Rod. There is, however, one important item he told me
that I think would be of immediate benefit to the members.

The "pickling" agents, sodium metabisulphite et al, are
extremely caustic to the membranes, and will reduce their lives
considerably if used incorrectly. Rod indicated that "incorrectly",
meant either too often and/or in too strong a solution. He said
they should be used only once a year "at most", and less often if
not required. He also recommended erring on the side of a more
dilute mixture, rather than too concentrated. They should only be
used if there is a clogging of the membranes which significantly
reduces the product flow. If that's the case, the agents will break
up the caked-on deposits from the membranes' surfaces to restore
proper flow. If not, they aren't doing much good, and are more
likely to cause harm to the membranes. Perhaps this contributed to
the early demise of your own.

If my interpretation of Rod's explanation isn't totally
accurate, I apologize, but I did think it was worth posting in the
interest of preventing anyone from doing any unnecessary damage
until Rod can explain things accurately.

Regards,

Steve SM #340




amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dec 16 2005

John:
I have looked at your pics several times. I think they are a good
resourse. I am not certain at
what resolution they are downloaded but perhaps many of us have
uploaded bigger files than
are absolutely necessary.

I tried emailing Dessalator's UK agent Rod Boreham at the address
you gave and it came back
as undeliverable. Any thoughts?

Regards, Gary

Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona





SPONSORED LINKS
Sailing Sailing yacht Amel Boating sailing

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "amelyachtowners" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


---------------------------------





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

Gary,

There was a typo in the email address John gave us for Rod Boreham. It's:
rod.boreham@advanceyacht.co.uk <rod.boreham@advanceyacht.co.uk>.

I spoke with Rod for about an hour yesterday about several of the issues discussed on this board. He was very helpful, and clarified all of my concerns and questions. As John said, there are a lot of misconceptions floating around. Rod is apparently going to post a reply clarifying a lot of the issues we've all raised. Since I've never even operated a watermaker before, I'm in no way the least bit qualified to properly explain his recommendations. I'll leave that to Rod. There is, however, one important item he told me that I think would be of immediate benefit to the members.

The "pickling" agents, sodium metabisulphite et al, are extremely caustic to the membranes, and will reduce their lives considerably if used incorrectly. Rod indicated that "incorrectly", meant either too often and/or in too strong a solution. He said they should be used only once a year "at most", and less often if not required. He also recommended erring on the side of a more dilute mixture, rather than too concentrated. They should only be used if there is a clogging of the membranes which significantly reduces the product flow. If that's the case, the agents will break up the caked-on deposits from the membranes' surfaces to restore proper flow. If not, they aren't doing much good, and are more likely to cause harm to the membranes. Perhaps this contributed to the early demise of your own.

If my interpretation of Rod's explanation isn't totally accurate, I apologize, but I did think it was worth posting in the interest of preventing anyone from doing any unnecessary damage until Rod can explain things accurately.

Regards,

Steve SM #340




amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dec 16 2005

John:
I have looked at your pics several times. I think they are a good resourse. I am not certain at
what resolution they are downloaded but perhaps many of us have uploaded bigger files than
are absolutely necessary.

I tried emailing Dessalator's UK agent Rod Boreham at the address you gave and it came back
as undeliverable. Any thoughts?

Regards, Gary

Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona





SPONSORED LINKS
Sailing Sailing yacht Amel Boating sailing

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "amelyachtowners" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Re: Unable to access photos

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Dec 16 2005

John:
I have looked at your pics several times. I think they are a good resourse. I am not certain at
what resolution they are downloaded but perhaps many of us have uploaded bigger files than
are absolutely necessary.

I tried emailing Dessalator's UK agent Rod Boreham at the address you gave and it came back
as undeliverable. Any thoughts?

Regards, Gary

Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona


Unable to access photos

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Richard,
I too cannot even access the photos section. It is frustrating that
Yahoo only permits 30mb and perhaps some of us have been downloading
pics at high definion megabytes instead of the much smaller Email
version. If I could get into the site I would delete many of the pics
of alterations to Bali Hai not least because I suspect noone looks at
them anyhow. My recollection of the site is that there are a good many
piocs which are long past their sell by date and could be deleted.
Perhaps others have views on this, for my part I have only been
contacted twice by people interested in my alterations.
Views please....it will make a change from worrying about our
membranes.

Regards, John SM 319


[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

15 Dec 2005

Hi Ian:

Regarding the price of the end caps- I received mine from Dessalator. These are
machined from aluminum and anodized black, There are two without high pressure
fittings and two with high pressure fittings. Each end cap has two large diameter o-rings
and a single smaller o-ring on the internal bore. The two with high pressure fittings have
stainless steel threaded hose nipples welded to a curved piece of stainless flat stock and
they are held on to the circumference of the end cap with screws. I am uncertain what
forms the seal of the high pressure nipple to the end cap. As these parts are made from
machined aluminum I can see where the cost would be greatly increased over plastic ones.
Chantiers Amel quoted me within 20 Euros for the same items, so I think Amel's price is in
the ball park and it was nice to see that Amel wasn't marking these up a great deal. Amel
has always been very fair with me.

I asked about my failure and I can only guess that something was lost in the translation
because the answer I received was incomplete and didn't really answer the question.

Dessalator has been very good to promptly respond to each of my emails but the person
who responds is Rosyne Castino who signs the emails as Secretary. I am somewhat
concerned that I am not getting the full technical info. I am going to attempt to email the
UK representative and see if I can get an answer.

I have taken some pictures of the end caps and will post them as soon as the photo
section starts to work.

Regards, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel2000 Hull # 335 Delivered July 1, 2001


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unable to access Photos

eric freedman
 

Gary,
I tried yesterday and got a message that the site is over the 30mb quota.
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unable to access Photos

Has anybody else been receiving "error messages" when trying to access the
photos section
of this site?

I was going to upload a picture of the watermaker membrane assembly but
can't even get the
photos area to come up.


Regards, Gary Silver








Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

Gary,

I pulled this info from the Dow FILMTEC website on the storage life of new membranes.

It asks: "How long can you store a new, packaged FILMTEC element?

Answer: "Dry elements can be stored indefinitely. Wet elements can be stored up to one year, but replenish bisulphite as needed."

There's also a lot of other interesting info on the site. There's another section that goes into more detail on wet and dry storage. It also gives the temperature ranges for the storage of various products.

http://dow-answer.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/dow_answer.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=342&;p_created=1043797236&p_sid=JQjqhWh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTYmcF9wcm9kcz0yNTEsMjYzJnBfY2F0cz0yOTUmcF9wdj0yLjI2MyZwX2N2PTEuMjk1JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1


Steve - SM #340



amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "markmpitt" <mark_pitt@b...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005
Hi Mark:

Thanks for your reply. I visited the www.airwaterice.com site and those do indeed seem to
to be the membranes that we need. What a relief to find them at that price. I will call
them tomorrow to verify. Our system uses 2 membranes only. The FilmTec SW30-2540
membranes are rated at 700 gpd (gallons per day) = which comes out to roughly 233
liters per hour, Given that, I am not sure why our systems only produce 120 liters per
hour. Perhaps it is just the inefficiencies of the system.

My TDS meter is about the same as yours. I see on eBay that Hana makes several EC
(Electrical conductivity)/TDS/pH meters for about $120 USD. I haven't searched up a
Chlorine meter yet.

I am not sure I would replace my membranes if all seemed well. I would monitor them
closely though. I haven't discussed with anyone if a set of spares could be purchased prior
to a long passage and if they would store well, or what their shelf life in storage is.

My flush water chlorine filter is just a single Pur Water Filter housing (almost identical to
the ones Dessalator used) that I mounted to the front of the exisiting two filter housing's
mounting bracket, and plumbed into the system. I brought the hose from the fresh water
line to the input side of the carbon filter housing, then a hose from the ouput side to the
input side of the flush valve that is mounted on the low pressure feed water pump. This
way all the fresh water going into that flush valve passes first thru the carbon block filter.
The carbon block filter was also purchased from West Marine.

As to the replacing of the membrane's, I just don't know. From other posts on this site it
appears that it is not a big job. I asked Dessalator for a parts diagram or membrane
replacement instructions and they said that they didn't have such items. They told me it
was really a straight forward job to replace the membranes.

Regards, Gary






SPONSORED LINKS
Sailing Sailing yacht Amel Boating sailing

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "amelyachtowners" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping


Water Maker Info

Horst Pause <horst@...>
 

With all the mail regarding the watermaker problems, has anyone made the jump and gone for a Spectra? From a friend, I have had the highest praise for the faultless operation of their systems; their after sales service was also second to none, they replaced his pump and filter element with an improved system f.o.c. even after the warranty had run out.

Horst
Maramu Puddleduck

________________________________

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Ian Shepherd
Sent: Tue 13/12/2005 21:34
To: Amel Owners Group
Subject: Fw: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info


Apologies if you get this twice. I am resending as the original has not come
back to me, so I guess it may have been lost. Ian



Hi Gary,

your post makes disturbing reading. Like you, I rely heavily upon my water
maker for long passages. About a year ago on this site, the possibility that
Amel had instructed Dessalator to de-activate the bad water bypass feature,
was raised.

This seemed an absurd suggestion to me, and I tried to test the system, but
failed to do so as I had not realized that the potential across the probe
is in fact not a DC one, but an AC one of around 500 Hz. I then contacted
Dessalator's UK representitive Rod Boreham and he took up the matter and fed
back reassuring information that the probe had not been deactivated. This
made sense as I remember Olivier Beaute mentioning that I should regularly
keep an eye on the probe terminals and to clean them if they looked
contaminated.

However, your experience suggests that there may be a weakness in the design
of either the detection, or the diversion of bad water. I am sure that all
of us would be interested to learn of your findings when you install a
second probe and do the test. (I had planned by now to have removed the
probe and immerse it in a cup of sea water whilst blocking the probe hole
with a bung, but a serious paragliding accident has confined me to bed for
the past two months). PLEASE let us know how you get on.

As a matter of interest, the membranes on my first 60 l/h failed after
living aboard for almost two years. During that time, I sometimes took on
dock water through a carbon filter, and sometimes cleaned the membranes with
a product bought from West Marine. I also visited the Chesapeake and the Bra
d'Or Lakes in Nova Scotia. Having said that, a friend of mine ran his water
maker in the inner harbour of Rodney Bay for three years without any problem
I would not even put my foot in there!

My second water maker is a 160 l/h model. I have never taken on dock water
(no chlorine), only back flush if the system is not going to be used for 10
days or more, and have never used any chemicals. In addition, having
backflushed the water maker in October 2003, it remained untouched for seven
months whilst Crusader languished in Amel's yard. Upon re launching the boat
it has worked fine ever since. My TDS readings are around 365 also.

The only problem I have experienced was the discovery of a split in in of
the nylon end caps in the area of the interconnecting tube that joins the
two membranes together. There had been a slow spray leak for some time, and
I only discovered it when a storage box that I keep under the water maker
was found to be full of sea water. The side effects of this leak were rust
on the 110/220V transformer casing, a failed fan in the 30 Amp battery
charger, and a degraded anchor wash motor, so it's worth keeping an eye on
the integrity of the end caps and fittings.

Amel quoted me "153.68 Euros ex Vat" for a pair of end caps, and so I am
staggered that you have been charged $640 for the caps direct from the
manufacturer. Of course we may have different models. Mine are made out of
white nylon and have two external and two internal seals each.

I attended a water maker symposium in Georgetown a few years back. When I
asked if all membranes were equal, the recommendation was Filmtec.

TSD meters are indeed readily available through Ebay at a great price. I
also bought one of those dual in line digital TDS meters for around $30. It
works fine when water is passed through it from a tap, but when I installed
it in the exit pipe from the membranes, it worked for a second or two, then
came up with 'error'. Why, I am not sure. Maybe the flow rate was too high
and turbulence might have had an effect? When I am back on my feet, I shall
try installing it in the pipe leading to the tank, possibly through a branch
off the main pipe. If you buy one of these, make sure you get the right John
Guest adaptors. The units normaly come with 1/4" connectors and my boat has
3/8" pipe. If I get it to work, it will be a convenient way of testing the
output regularly. I guess the ultimate water maker would have a digital
meter built into the control panel. One day I am sure.

Season Greetings to you all

Ian Shepherd SM 414 "Crusader"







________________________________

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "amelyachtowners <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:amelyachtowners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


________________________________


Fw: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Ian Shepherd <ocean53@...>
 

Apologies if you get this twice. I am resending as the original has not come
back to me, so I guess it may have been lost. Ian



Hi Gary,

your post makes disturbing reading. Like you, I rely heavily upon my water
maker for long passages. About a year ago on this site, the possibility that
Amel had instructed Dessalator to de-activate the bad water bypass feature,
was raised.

This seemed an absurd suggestion to me, and I tried to test the system, but
failed to do so as I had not realized that the potential across the probe
is in fact not a DC one, but an AC one of around 500 Hz. I then contacted
Dessalator's UK representitive Rod Boreham and he took up the matter and fed
back reassuring information that the probe had not been deactivated. This
made sense as I remember Olivier Beaute mentioning that I should regularly
keep an eye on the probe terminals and to clean them if they looked
contaminated.

However, your experience suggests that there may be a weakness in the design
of either the detection, or the diversion of bad water. I am sure that all
of us would be interested to learn of your findings when you install a
second probe and do the test. (I had planned by now to have removed the
probe and immerse it in a cup of sea water whilst blocking the probe hole
with a bung, but a serious paragliding accident has confined me to bed for
the past two months). PLEASE let us know how you get on.

As a matter of interest, the membranes on my first 60 l/h failed after
living aboard for almost two years. During that time, I sometimes took on
dock water through a carbon filter, and sometimes cleaned the membranes with
a product bought from West Marine. I also visited the Chesapeake and the Bra
d'Or Lakes in Nova Scotia. Having said that, a friend of mine ran his water
maker in the inner harbour of Rodney Bay for three years without any problem
I would not even put my foot in there!

My second water maker is a 160 l/h model. I have never taken on dock water
(no chlorine), only back flush if the system is not going to be used for 10
days or more, and have never used any chemicals. In addition, having
backflushed the water maker in October 2003, it remained untouched for seven
months whilst Crusader languished in Amel's yard. Upon re launching the boat
it has worked fine ever since. My TDS readings are around 365 also.

The only problem I have experienced was the discovery of a split in in of
the nylon end caps in the area of the interconnecting tube that joins the
two membranes together. There had been a slow spray leak for some time, and
I only discovered it when a storage box that I keep under the water maker
was found to be full of sea water. The side effects of this leak were rust
on the 110/220V transformer casing, a failed fan in the 30 Amp battery
charger, and a degraded anchor wash motor, so it's worth keeping an eye on
the integrity of the end caps and fittings.

Amel quoted me "153.68 Euros ex Vat" for a pair of end caps, and so I am
staggered that you have been charged $640 for the caps direct from the
manufacturer. Of course we may have different models. Mine are made out of
white nylon and have two external and two internal seals each.

I attended a water maker symposium in Georgetown a few years back. When I
asked if all membranes were equal, the recommendation was Filmtec.

TSD meters are indeed readily available through Ebay at a great price. I
also bought one of those dual in line digital TDS meters for around $30. It
works fine when water is passed through it from a tap, but when I installed
it in the exit pipe from the membranes, it worked for a second or two, then
came up with 'error'. Why, I am not sure. Maybe the flow rate was too high
and turbulence might have had an effect? When I am back on my feet, I shall
try installing it in the pipe leading to the tank, possibly through a branch
off the main pipe. If you buy one of these, make sure you get the right John
Guest adaptors. The units normaly come with 1/4" connectors and my boat has
3/8" pipe. If I get it to work, it will be a convenient way of testing the
output regularly. I guess the ultimate water maker would have a digital
meter built into the control panel. One day I am sure.

Season Greetings to you all

Ian Shepherd SM 414 "Crusader"


Photo section upgrade coming

Zanareva
 

Yahoo says they are rolling out an improved photo section. They
started November 21, and say all Yahoo Group sites will be upgraded in
4 to 6 weeks. We should be getting more storage...so hang in there
until the upgrade takes place.

Richard


Re: Water Maker Info

Mark Pitt
 

Gary:
I do not know what kind of connectors are used on our water lines.
The "professional" verion of these in-line TFS meters comes equipped
with 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch John Guest Quick-Connect T-fittings.
(http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/water-tests.asp)
From the John Guest web site (http://www.johnguest.com/) it would
seem that they have connectors and adaptors for all size pipe and
hoses. You could then just splice the meter into the line. These
meters have tow sensors -- one for input water and one for output
water. I do not see any reason to even bother with the former. These
must have been designed for in-home RO systems where the quality of
the input water, perhaps from a well, is of more interest.

Regards, Mark

Mark Pitt ASM #419 Sabbatical III


--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@y...> wrote:

Hi Mark:

Do you know what type of connectors are used on the watermater
product water line of the
vintage our our SM's. I am referring to the gray plastic product
water line coming out of the
end of the stainless steel end caps and going to the control panel.
Do you know if these
connectors could be spliced into those lines?

Regards, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM2000 Hull # 335

Mark stated:

There are in-line TDS meters that attach to the water line
with John Guest quick connectors. The sensor connects to a small
LCD display. They run on batteries, one model on button cell
batteries and the other on 2 AAA. Battery life is 1000 hours.
The meters cost less than $50. I found them at
http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/water-tests.asp
and at
http://www.airwaterice.com


Re: Unable to access Photos

Zanareva
 

Gary,

This site was close to it's limit for the longest time......now, with
a couple of posted pictures that a member uploaded in the past few
days, we've exceeded our allotment of 30MB photo storage as set by
Yahoo.

Any suggestions folks on what to do?

Richard Tate

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, amelliahona <no_reply@y...>
wrote:

Has anybody else been receiving "error messages" when trying to
access the photos section
of this site?

I was going to upload a picture of the watermaker membrane assembly
but can't even get the
photos area to come up.


Regards, Gary Silver


Unable to access Photos

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Has anybody else been receiving "error messages" when trying to access the photos section
of this site?

I was going to upload a picture of the watermaker membrane assembly but can't even get the
photos area to come up.


Regards, Gary Silver


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

Ian Shepherd <ocean53@...>
 

Hi Gary,

The advice I received at a water maker symposium was not to buy membranes in
advance. Apparently they do not store well, or at least they did not do so
in 2002. It would though, be a comforting idea to have a spare set on board.
Maybe the storage fluid has improved these days?

I had no problem at all changing membranes. Once you get the end caps off,
they simply slide out. To remove the end caps, I purchased a set of curved
grips, similar to mole grips, but designed for large round tubes. Using a
cloth to protect the caps, they can be jiggled till they pop out.

Regards

Ian Shepherd "Crusader"

-------Original Message-------

From: amelliahona
Date: 12/11/05 23:12:44
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

--- In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, "markmpitt" <mark_pitt@b...> wrote:
11 Dec 2005
Hi Mark:

Thanks for your reply. I visited the www.airwaterice.com site and those do
indeed seem to
to be the membranes that we need. What a relief to find them at that price.
I will call
them tomorrow to verify. Our system uses 2 membranes only. The FilmTec
SW30-2540
membranes are rated at 700 gpd (gallons per day) = which comes out to
roughly 233
liters per hour, Given that, I am not sure why our systems only produce 120
liters per
hour. Perhaps it is just the inefficiencies of the system.

My TDS meter is about the same as yours. I see on eBay that Hana makes
several EC
(Electrical conductivity)/TDS/pH meters for about $120 USD. I haven't
searched up a
Chlorine meter yet.

I am not sure I would replace my membranes if all seemed well. I would
monitor them
closely though. I haven't discussed with anyone if a set of spares could be
purchased prior
to a long passage and if they would store well, or what their shelf life in
storage is.

My flush water chlorine filter is just a single Pur Water Filter housing
(almost identical to
the ones Dessalator used) that I mounted to the front of the exisiting two
filter housing's
mounting bracket, and plumbed into the system. I brought the hose from the
fresh water
line to the input side of the carbon filter housing, then a hose from the
ouput side to the
input side of the flush valve that is mounted on the low pressure feed water
pump. This
way all the fresh water going into that flush valve passes first thru the
carbon block filter.
The carbon block filter was also purchased from West Marine.

As to the replacing of the membrane's, I just don't know. From other posts
on this site it
appears that it is not a big job. I asked Dessalator for a parts diagram or
membrane
replacement instructions and they said that they didn't have such items.
They told me it
was really a straight forward job to replace the membranes.

Regards, Gary






------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/A1TolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->


Yahoo! Groups Links









--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005