Date   

Cutter rig and inner forestay

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Eric,
No I have not fitted an inner forestay but I probably would have done
so if I was going blue water cruising again. Unfortunately I am now
too old to sail back to the South Pacific.
If the fixing point for the top of the forestay is close, say two or
three feet down from the truck, then runners are not needed. This is
what Oyster called a slutter rig. I made the bottom of the inner stay
removable so that could be brought back to the mast where it was not
in the way when tacking. Obviously we rigged the stay for long
passages.
Am I right in thinking that you are about to cross the Pacific because
if you are and you would like a few tips I will be happy to post some
of my experiences.

Regards, John SM 319


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cutter rig, inner forestay

eric freedman
 

John,
Have you added a inner forestay to your amel?
I read your post and it seems to be about your previous boat. I have added
an inner forestay to my previous boat also. My problem is with the roller
furling main I do not know how to affix the running backstays or the fitting
on the mast for a stay. Adding a knee and bracing for the tack of the stay
is easy.
Fair winds,
Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of John and Anne on Bali
Hai
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 3:05 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cutter rig, inner forestay

Hello Eric,
I wrote about this on 15 October, message no 1691. Looking at that I
see that I did not say that you would have to get a new chain plate
made to be fixed through the foredeck and secured to the bulkhead.
If you use it for a storm jib the sheets would have to come inside the
main shrouds. If you are using it for a staysail you would probably
need to have a new sheeting track inside the main shrouds but your
sail maker would be able to advise you where etc.

Happy Christmas from Anne and John SM 319








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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] onan genset

dlm48@...
 

In a message dated 19/12/2005 14:26:16 GMT Standard Time,
pjn.mccallin@... writes:

can anyone assist please, after only 450 hours use, the gen set is
becoming difficult to start. On pressing the start button there are
lots of clicks from the various relays and the fuel pump but nothing
happens, no cranking,nada. Repeat the process and it will start up
after say four or five presses of the button. Have checked all battery
leads starter connections am now stumped and wonder if a similar
problem has been encountered. Thanks in advance Patrick CARAMELLE.




duff water pump impellor?

regards

David


Re: onan genset

Ken & Nancy Burnap <notrevie2000@...>
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "caramel02uk"
<pjn.mccallin@j...> wrote:

can anyone assist please, after only 450 hours use, the gen set is
becoming difficult to start. On pressing the start button there
are
lots of clicks from the various relays and the fuel pump but
nothing
happens, no cranking,nada. Repeat the process and it will start up
after say four or five presses of the button. Have checked all
battery
leads starter connections am now stumped and wonder if a similar
problem has been encountered. Thanks in advance Patrick CARAMELLE.
Amel has taken the prevention on galvanic action one step beyond any
other boat mfg. They not only have an interrupt solenoid in the
positive circuit for the motor but they also have one on the
negative circuit. When the start button is pushed both of these
solenoids must engage at the same time for the motor to start. The
cause of your problem is almost assuredly because the negative
solenoid is sticking. The good news is, it's easy to get to and
short stop around. It is in plain sight on the port side of the
engine, a cylinder shape about 1.25" dia. X 6" long, with a rubber
push button on either the top or the bottom depending on how it was
mounted. It has been mounted in various positions in an attempt to
lessen this probability of it's sticking. The next time this
happens, have one person hold down the rubber push button on the
solenoid while a second person pushes the start button. That's it.
You obviously could short across the terminals as a permanent fix
but I would not recommend this, I think the second interrupt is a
good idea when it works. I found that the sticking problem occurred
when the engine was fairly hot after an extended run and not given
enough idle time to cool down before shutting it off..

Hope this helps.

Ken Burnap
s/v Notre Vie


Watermaker Fresh Water Flush Automatic Retrofit

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

19 Dec 2005

Dessalator's quote to me for retrofit of the automatic fresh water system for the watermaker
is for 978.43 Euros (excluding shipping etc). Date of Quote was 29 Nov 2005.

From Dessalator, the auto flush, "..... for an automated rinsing that functions thanks to a
pressure captor and new genergation of electronic controller. This flush works automatically
as soon as you reduce the pressure to 30 bars and stops after two minutes." "We can do this
installation for you: we need your control panel, your doble (sic) prefilter, and your electornic
controller bak in our workshop to mount this sytem. Whit this new flushing syste you gain by
the pressure captor which asl looks after the lack of water, which will prevent the o'rings of
the pump, pre pump and high pressure pumpf from burning".

I confirmed with Rod Boreham that this system only works as the pressure falls when shutting
down the system following a session of water making. There are no provisions for
automating a fresh water flush every so many days etc., while the boat is layed up or un-
occupied.

Gary Silver Amel SM2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona


Re: onan genset

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "caramel02uk"
<pjn.mccallin@j...> wrote:

can anyone assist please, after only 450 hours use, the gen set is
becoming difficult to start. On pressing the start button there are
lots of clicks from the various relays and the fuel pump but nothing
happens, no cranking,nada. Repeat the process and it will start up
after say four or five presses of the button. Have checked all
battery
leads starter connections am now stumped and wonder if a similar
problem has been encountered. Thanks in advance Patrick CARAMELLE.
I had trouble starting and found that one of the push on connections
was loose giving intermittent starting. So far as I remember it was
one of the leads in the area of the fuel pump. The symptom was that
the fuel cut off soleniod was not being energised and therefore the
red painted rod was not moving when the starter button was
pushed.Perhaps if you pull on each lead in turn you might find a loose
one.

Good luck, John,Bali Hai SM319


Custom Rocna 40kg Anchor for SM

Zanareva
 

Hello everyone and happy holidays!

On the bow of my Super Maramu has been a 60lb. CQR. I've been
investigating moving to both a heavier anchor and one of the new
generation anchor (Spade/Rocna/Bugel), but unfortunately, the 120
Spade and the 50kg Rocna have shanks that are too high
(thickness/width not an issue) so that they won't 'come home' when
pulled in the primary (enclosed) anchor roller assembly on my Super
Maramu. (I wasn't about to change or modify the well-designed
integral bow roller/anchor washdown assembly to accept these big
anchors.) Even the Rocna 40kg model wouldn't fit--according to the
mockups I made.

Good news is that Mark Pocock of Suncoast Marine, the Canadian
manufacturer of the Rocna for the N.A. markets, custom built a Rocna
40kg anchor to my shank specifications (which was given the AOK by
the inventor in NZ). The price I paid was equal to the cost of the
Rocna 50kg. I'll post a photo or two of the installed Rocna 40kg
when we get more storage in the Photos section.

Richard Tate
SM #5 "Spice"


onan genset

caramel02uk <pjn.mccallin@...>
 

can anyone assist please, after only 450 hours use, the gen set is
becoming difficult to start. On pressing the start button there are
lots of clicks from the various relays and the fuel pump but nothing
happens, no cranking,nada. Repeat the process and it will start up
after say four or five presses of the button. Have checked all battery
leads starter connections am now stumped and wonder if a similar
problem has been encountered. Thanks in advance Patrick CARAMELLE.


Cutter rig, inner forestay

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hello Eric,
I wrote about this on 15 October, message no 1691. Looking at that I
see that I did not say that you would have to get a new chain plate
made to be fixed through the foredeck and secured to the bulkhead.
If you use it for a storm jib the sheets would have to come inside the
main shrouds. If you are using it for a staysail you would probably
need to have a new sheeting track inside the main shrouds but your
sail maker would be able to advise you where etc.

Happy Christmas from Anne and John SM 319


inner forestay

eric freedman
 

Has anyone added an inner forestay to a Super Maramu.
If so please tell me about it
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water Maker Discussion with Rod Borham

eric freedman
 

Hi,
I too believe I have been overdoing my pickling of the watermaker.
I pickle it for the summer when I am in harbor in new york , and every month
when I leave the boat in the Carib.
What is the correct mixture of sodium metabisulfite and water?
Fair Winds,
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 3:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water Maker Discussion with Rod Borham

18 December 2005

Steve:

Thank you for Rod's correct email address. He called me within an
hour of my email to him. We had a long discussion on a host of
topics related to the Dessalator water maker, FilmTec membranes,
water maker care and feeding, design philosophy etc. I am preparing
a summary of that discussion that I will post here. He is also going
to prepare a post for this site along with the specifications for the
o-rings used on the membrane end caps and detailed concentration
specifications for the Sodium Metabisulfite pickling solution.

My bottom line is that I will be installing a continuous EC
(Electrical Conductivity) monitor with alarm capability in my
system. I am considering the Omega CDCN201 Mini Panel Mount
Conductivity and TDS Controller with Alarm Modes. You can see it at
omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=CDCN201&nav= or just google up
CDCN201. It is available in 12 volt DC or 220 volt AC 50-60 Hertz.

Steve, your understanding as summarized from Rod is basically what I
heard also. More to follow,

Gary Silver AmelSM2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona







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Water Maker Discussion with Rod Borham

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

18 December 2005

Steve:

Thank you for Rod's correct email address. He called me within an
hour of my email to him. We had a long discussion on a host of
topics related to the Dessalator water maker, FilmTec membranes,
water maker care and feeding, design philosophy etc. I am preparing
a summary of that discussion that I will post here. He is also going
to prepare a post for this site along with the specifications for the
o-rings used on the membrane end caps and detailed concentration
specifications for the Sodium Metabisulfite pickling solution.

My bottom line is that I will be installing a continuous EC
(Electrical Conductivity) monitor with alarm capability in my
system. I am considering the Omega CDCN201 Mini Panel Mount
Conductivity and TDS Controller with Alarm Modes. You can see it at
omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=CDCN201&nav= or just google up
CDCN201. It is available in 12 volt DC or 220 volt AC 50-60 Hertz.

Steve, your understanding as summarized from Rod is basically what I
heard also. More to follow,

Gary Silver AmelSM2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

Gary,

I'd be happy to forward you Rod's phone number. I'll also forward the list of questions I had sent to Rod for clarification.

Rod did have explanations for the apparent diverter inconsistencies, but I hesitate to try to relay them in case I confuse things even more than they are already. I'll give it a shot, and if I'm not 100% correct, hopefully Rod can clarify when he posts his comments.

As I understand Rod's explanation, the Dessalator systems are designed to over ride the sensor at 2 minutes. This is design intent so that an owner isn't deprived of the watermaker due solely to a defective sensor. If the green light comes on in some time period other than 2 minutes, it means the sensor has done its job and the changeover valve has been switched from the default overboard position, to the tank. If, however, the green light comes on at "exactly 2 minutes", it means the sensor has been over ridden. At this point, it's up to the owner to decide whether the cause is a defective sensor, or a defective fresh water product.

There are two steps to this process. First, disconnect the outlet hose from the manifold and taste test it for salinity (or with a TDS metre if you have one). If you can't taste salt, the water is acceptable...pointing to a defective sensor. If you can taste salt, the next step is to verify the flow volume by draining the output flow from the disconnected hose into a graduated measuring container (eg. a one litre bottle) for a fixed period of time. This will give you a rough measurement for the current litres per hour output. If it is no more than 20% to 25% over the rated output for your model (eg. 200 l/hr for a 160 l/hr model), the membranes are intact. If it is beyond 25%, too much water is getting through...indicating either a ruptured membrane, or a defective "O" ring.

I was writing frantically as Rod explained, so I missed a couple of things. One of those things, now that I think about it, is key. I'm not sure whether the changeover valve is designed to stay in the default overboard position when the 2 minute over ride is activated. It would make sense to me for it to do this, otherwise a defective sensor will always result in questionable product being piped into the tank after 2 minutes. This would defeat the purpose of having a sensor in the first place.

That said, if your tests verify you have a good product, there's also a way to manually over ride the default overboard changeover valve position. There's a small grey button on the side of the changeover valve box located at the top of the product flow tube on the back of the control panel. Pressing this button and rotating it one quarter turn, will manually position the valve such that the watermaker output flows to the tank.

Rod was clear in his disclaimer, that just because Dessalator has designed this feature into their products, doesn't mean that every boat manufacturer equipping their boats with a Dessalator has left them that way. It could be possible for AMEL to have modified it in some manner.

As I said, I'm a complete novice with regard to watermakers. I hope this explanation makes sense to those of you familiar with their operation.

Rod mentioned that the newer models are already equipped with the programmed flushing cycle at the end of each watermaking operation. Sorry, but I didn't ask if it was available as a field modification, or the cost if it was. I also didn't ask about it's ability to be programmed for automatic flushings when the boat was unattended. I was primarily focussed on freeze prevention/propylene glycol matters, so I forgot about some obvious things.

Steve



amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
16 Dec 2005

Hi Steve:

Evidently the Yahoo system truncates email address' that are imbedded in messages.
Probably to prevent mining of email address by spamers.

The copy of your message that came to my personal email box had the entire address. I
have tried resending my email. Would you mind trying to send me a private email with
Rod's phone number.

I must admit that I was very cavalier about the amount of sodium metabisulfite that I used
when pickling my system. When Olivier taught us about this he said something to the
effect of, "put a little of this in a bucket of water". I assumed if a little was good more was
better so I would routinely use about two cap fulls of the powder in a 2 1/2 gal bucket of
water. I now know that quantitiy is way way way too much. So I have nobody to blame
except myself.

Did Rod indicate any thoughts about why the diverter system didn't work?

Did he have any more information about the new Dessalator timer system and if it can be
programmed to flush on a specific schedule or if it only is capable of flushing upon
completion of the water making cycle? Dessalator indicated that the timer system could
be retrofit for about $1,000 USD.

Thanks,

Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335








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[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

16 Dec 2005

Hi Steve:

Evidently the Yahoo system truncates email address' that are imbedded in messages.
Probably to prevent mining of email address by spamers.

The copy of your message that came to my personal email box had the entire address. I
have tried resending my email. Would you mind trying to send me a private email with
Rod's phone number.

I must admit that I was very cavalier about the amount of sodium metabisulfite that I used
when pickling my system. When Olivier taught us about this he said something to the
effect of, "put a little of this in a bucket of water". I assumed if a little was good more was
better so I would routinely use about two cap fulls of the powder in a 2 1/2 gal bucket of
water. I now know that quantitiy is way way way too much. So I have nobody to blame
except myself.

Did Rod indicate any thoughts about why the diverter system didn't work?

Did he have any more information about the new Dessalator timer system and if it can be
programmed to flush on a specific schedule or if it only is capable of flushing upon
completion of the water making cycle? Dessalator indicated that the timer system could
be retrofit for about $1,000 USD.

Thanks,

Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335


[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

maramu_49 <maramu_49@...>
 

Apparently, something truncated the email address as pasted. I'll
try again.

rod.boreham@...

Steve


--- In amelyachtowners@..., Steve Constantine
<maramu_49@y...> wrote:

Gary,

There was a typo in the email address John gave us for Rod
Boreham. It's:
rod.boreham@a... <rod.boreham@a...>.

I spoke with Rod for about an hour yesterday about several of
the issues discussed on this board. He was very helpful, and
clarified all of my concerns and questions. As John said, there are
a lot of misconceptions floating around. Rod is apparently going to
post a reply clarifying a lot of the issues we've all raised. Since
I've never even operated a watermaker before, I'm in no way the
least bit qualified to properly explain his recommendations. I'll
leave that to Rod. There is, however, one important item he told me
that I think would be of immediate benefit to the members.

The "pickling" agents, sodium metabisulphite et al, are
extremely caustic to the membranes, and will reduce their lives
considerably if used incorrectly. Rod indicated that "incorrectly",
meant either too often and/or in too strong a solution. He said
they should be used only once a year "at most", and less often if
not required. He also recommended erring on the side of a more
dilute mixture, rather than too concentrated. They should only be
used if there is a clogging of the membranes which significantly
reduces the product flow. If that's the case, the agents will break
up the caked-on deposits from the membranes' surfaces to restore
proper flow. If not, they aren't doing much good, and are more
likely to cause harm to the membranes. Perhaps this contributed to
the early demise of your own.

If my interpretation of Rod's explanation isn't totally
accurate, I apologize, but I did think it was worth posting in the
interest of preventing anyone from doing any unnecessary damage
until Rod can explain things accurately.

Regards,

Steve SM #340




amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
Dec 16 2005

John:
I have looked at your pics several times. I think they are a good
resourse. I am not certain at
what resolution they are downloaded but perhaps many of us have
uploaded bigger files than
are absolutely necessary.

I tried emailing Dessalator's UK agent Rod Boreham at the address
you gave and it came back
as undeliverable. Any thoughts?

Regards, Gary

Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Unable to access photos

Steve Constantine <maramu_49@...>
 

Gary,

There was a typo in the email address John gave us for Rod Boreham. It's:
rod.boreham@... <rod.boreham@...>.

I spoke with Rod for about an hour yesterday about several of the issues discussed on this board. He was very helpful, and clarified all of my concerns and questions. As John said, there are a lot of misconceptions floating around. Rod is apparently going to post a reply clarifying a lot of the issues we've all raised. Since I've never even operated a watermaker before, I'm in no way the least bit qualified to properly explain his recommendations. I'll leave that to Rod. There is, however, one important item he told me that I think would be of immediate benefit to the members.

The "pickling" agents, sodium metabisulphite et al, are extremely caustic to the membranes, and will reduce their lives considerably if used incorrectly. Rod indicated that "incorrectly", meant either too often and/or in too strong a solution. He said they should be used only once a year "at most", and less often if not required. He also recommended erring on the side of a more dilute mixture, rather than too concentrated. They should only be used if there is a clogging of the membranes which significantly reduces the product flow. If that's the case, the agents will break up the caked-on deposits from the membranes' surfaces to restore proper flow. If not, they aren't doing much good, and are more likely to cause harm to the membranes. Perhaps this contributed to the early demise of your own.

If my interpretation of Rod's explanation isn't totally accurate, I apologize, but I did think it was worth posting in the interest of preventing anyone from doing any unnecessary damage until Rod can explain things accurately.

Regards,

Steve SM #340




amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
Dec 16 2005

John:
I have looked at your pics several times. I think they are a good resourse. I am not certain at
what resolution they are downloaded but perhaps many of us have uploaded bigger files than
are absolutely necessary.

I tried emailing Dessalator's UK agent Rod Boreham at the address you gave and it came back
as undeliverable. Any thoughts?

Regards, Gary

Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona





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Re: Unable to access photos

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Dec 16 2005

John:
I have looked at your pics several times. I think they are a good resourse. I am not certain at
what resolution they are downloaded but perhaps many of us have uploaded bigger files than
are absolutely necessary.

I tried emailing Dessalator's UK agent Rod Boreham at the address you gave and it came back
as undeliverable. Any thoughts?

Regards, Gary

Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 s/v Liahona


Unable to access photos

John and Anne on Bali Hai <hollamby@...>
 

Hi Richard,
I too cannot even access the photos section. It is frustrating that
Yahoo only permits 30mb and perhaps some of us have been downloading
pics at high definion megabytes instead of the much smaller Email
version. If I could get into the site I would delete many of the pics
of alterations to Bali Hai not least because I suspect noone looks at
them anyhow. My recollection of the site is that there are a good many
piocs which are long past their sell by date and could be deleted.
Perhaps others have views on this, for my part I have only been
contacted twice by people interested in my alterations.
Views please....it will make a change from worrying about our
membranes.

Regards, John SM 319


[Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water Maker Info

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

15 Dec 2005

Hi Ian:

Regarding the price of the end caps- I received mine from Dessalator. These are
machined from aluminum and anodized black, There are two without high pressure
fittings and two with high pressure fittings. Each end cap has two large diameter o-rings
and a single smaller o-ring on the internal bore. The two with high pressure fittings have
stainless steel threaded hose nipples welded to a curved piece of stainless flat stock and
they are held on to the circumference of the end cap with screws. I am uncertain what
forms the seal of the high pressure nipple to the end cap. As these parts are made from
machined aluminum I can see where the cost would be greatly increased over plastic ones.
Chantiers Amel quoted me within 20 Euros for the same items, so I think Amel's price is in
the ball park and it was nice to see that Amel wasn't marking these up a great deal. Amel
has always been very fair with me.

I asked about my failure and I can only guess that something was lost in the translation
because the answer I received was incomplete and didn't really answer the question.

Dessalator has been very good to promptly respond to each of my emails but the person
who responds is Rosyne Castino who signs the emails as Secretary. I am somewhat
concerned that I am not getting the full technical info. I am going to attempt to email the
UK representative and see if I can get an answer.

I have taken some pictures of the end caps and will post them as soon as the photo
section starts to work.

Regards, Gary Silver s/v Liahona Amel2000 Hull # 335 Delivered July 1, 2001


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unable to access Photos

eric freedman
 

Gary,
I tried yesterday and got a message that the site is over the 30mb quota.
Eric
Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite

-----Original Message-----
From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unable to access Photos

Has anybody else been receiving "error messages" when trying to access the
photos section
of this site?

I was going to upload a picture of the watermaker membrane assembly but
can't even get the
photos area to come up.


Regards, Gary Silver








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