Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Second Holding Tank Failure

Ian Shepherd
 

Coming up Eric.

Ian

On 15/09/2014 19:03, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

Hi Ian,

Please send me a photo.
Kimberlite@...
Fair winds
eric
sm 376 Kimberlite

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, September 15, 2014 7:52 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Second Holding Tank Failure
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

As happened with my aft heads holding tank about 18 months ago,
the
copper pipe that connects the holding tank to the drain pipe in
the
forward heads failed. Interestingly the hole appeared where the
grounding wire was held against the copper pipe by a hose clamp.
Whether
this was caused by dissimilar metals or just the pressure of the
wire on
a very weak tube is guesswork. It might however be prudent to
slacken
the clamp to prolong the time before failure. For the past 2
years my
toilets have been on a fresh water flush system, yet the copper
tubes
still failed.

As before I got my machine shop to turn up a Teflon connector
with a
shoulder beneath the tank bottom and two O-seals above. The one
good
thing about the original design is that with care you can work
the
rotted copper pipe out of the tank with a pair of grips, leaving
a
smooth interior surface for the O-seals to mate against.

There should be a photo of the Teflon coupling on this sight. If
it has
been removed, I can send a photo to anyone you is interested.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Cyprus


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toilet fresh or raw

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Drain the bowl, add 2 liters of white vinegar, pump dry.

Close the through hull.  No smell or scaling.

:-)

Jean-Pierre Germain


On 24 Sep 2014, at 19:42, Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You may well be right John. So far, since converting to fresh water flush, I have not had to remove the pipes and descale them but that is not to say that scale is not being formed. Maybe more slowly? Time will tell. Maybe ading some de-scaler to my header tank might be a way of cleaning the pipes as you flush?

Cheers

Ian

On 16/09/2014 14:55, 'Anne and John Hollamby ' annejohnholl@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Hello Pat, I hate to disagree with Ian but the facts are that it is urine that causes the scale to form whether or not sea or freshwater is used to flush. As mentioned the other day the critical thing is to flush the toilet for a minimum of ten seconds  to get the urine out of the system and to listen to other people flushing so that you can remind them of this important need. So far as smelly plumbing after the toilets have not been flushed for sometime we always flush ours thoroughly finishing off with fresh water from the shower and then pump the bowl dry before we leave and then give them a thorough flush when we return. Having seen the problem that Kent had with rusty chain it makes it clear that the anchor chain flush should be converted to fresh to avoid soaking it in salt water when up-anchoring.
 
             Good luck,  Anne and John, Bali Hai,  SM319,  for sale in Malta.
 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toilet fresh or raw
 
 

Pat, I converted Crusader to fresh water flush and I am pleased to say that since doing so, I have not had a build up problem in the pipes. I also installed a device that meters toilet blue into the toilet header tank which goes a long way to keeping the heads smelling fresh. Rather than use the expensive specific blue blocks specified by the  device manafacturer I use regular supermarket toilet blue. The type that is soft and which is wrappped in dis-solvable paper will push into the dispenser and works very well.

My anchor wash is now automatic and is also fresh water. Having a 160  l/h water maker helps. Both mods were I believe well worth while and have given me no problems.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus.

On 13/09/2014 11:56, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

We now have a manual raw toilet in the forward head, only a couple years old. My wife wants me to replace it with an electric one. I am debating between fresh water or raw water. Raw water would be easier to install and we live in fresh water , but will be in salt for six months a year. Fresh water would be more hassle to install and would use a significant amount of our fresh water, but has its advantages of being quiet , no salt build up and reduce smell from rotting organisms in the water. I was wondering if most of you have fresh or salt and which way to go. Of course another option , would be to ignore my wife's wishes .  Thanks, Pat SM 123





Jean-Pierre Germain,
Chief Pilot, Cozuro Limited,
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...
jp.germain@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Second Holding Tank Failure

Ian Shepherd
 

Hello Derick,

I am afraid that I gave the dimensions to my turner and did not get them back. From memory, the hold in the bottom of the holding tank is 39mm tothe top part of the pipe would have been 38mm. The length of the pipe down to the shoulder was 50mm and below the shoulder the diameter was increased to 40mm and the length 45mm. It's a little shorter below the tank so that you can get the flexible hose back on more easily.

I am certain that the original pipe was copper not brass. I agree. A poor choice.

No only once did I pour a small amount of acid into the forward head to free the ball valve. This was for a few seconds only followed by a thorough flush with a freshwater hose. The rear heads that failed first has never had any chemicals added nor any sweetener products.

Yes I think the bonding maybe counter productive though in theory, I guess a tank full of waste could act as a battery with the anode and cathode being the pipe and the ball valve?

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been busy fitting some newer technology solar panels, which have proven to be well worth the effort.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus

On 15/09/2014 14:33, derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Ian,

 

Thanks for the posting about the replacing the copper tube going into the holding tank. I hope I never have to do this, but it is good to know that there is a potential solution.  I have seen your picture of the replacement you had made.  Ingenious!  If you could post the exact dimensions of your replacement pipe that would be very useful.  For someone planning on circumnavigating it might be worthwhile getting a spare made up even before it is critically needed.

 

I note that you refer to the original piping as a copper pipe - but is it really a brass pipe?  Copper seems like a poor choice for this fitting.  I thought it looked like brass, but then I have not examined this pipe as carefully as you have. 

 

I am also wondering if there was something in the way you maintained the heads that ate away the metal - it does not seem intuitive that fresh water flushing would accelerate the erosion, and it would be curious if the stainless steel clamp for the bonding wire created the problem - if so, perhaps electrically bonding this particular piece of metal is counter-productive.  Do you (or did you prior to the fresh water flushing) do regular acid or alkalai washes, perhaps leaving the acid or alkalai in the pipe for long term storage/cleaning purposes? Some acids are much stronger than others (e.g muriatic acid (HCl) is >>> acetic acid (white vinegar) and of course need to be used with care and adequately neutralized and flushed.

 

Just curious,

 

Derick

SM2K #400 Brava



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Second Holding Tank Failure

Ian Shepherd
 

Bill,

I don't think so as I think the first pipe failed before I added the blue which is only household blue and not the stuff they put on planes. I added the dispenser at the end of last summer. The sea at the eastern end of the Med is more saline than most parts so that might have something to do with it. Maybe it's my own brand of what goes in the toilet that's doing the damage :-)

Regarding Kents comments, I can't remember where the first pipe failed. All I remember is that it was wafer thin and crumpled easily. I think that if there was a stray current then the 'Masse' tester that is fitted to the boat would have shown it up. Whatever, the Teflon replacements are going to last longer than me!

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus.

On 15/09/2014 15:21, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 
Ian,

Do you think that blue airplane water that you flush with, may have something to do with the deterioration of the pipe?   

For those that do not know it, Ian added a flush water tank which automatically fills with fresh water when the water in the tank gets low. He also added a chemical to the water that makes the flush water look like that blue water on airplanes. Ian was a BA 747 Captain before being self-promoted to a Super Maramu Captain. He is vainly trying to get as many miles sailing as he did flying. He has logged more than most of us, but I do not think he will match his 747 miles. ;) ;)

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Oooh, nasty job Ian. I checked my tanks after your first problem and my copper pipes look fine.  I wonder why yours are disintegrating and my older ones aren't???

If it failed at the bonding point could there be some stray current causing the problem?

Is that where the other one failed, too?

I feel for you.  I had to replace the hoses on both heads when I bought the boat...my crew gave me a hat with a skunk on it that said "Team Skunk".
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:51 AM, "Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

As happened with my aft heads holding tank about 18 months ago, the
copper pipe that connects the holding tank to the drain pipe in the
forward heads failed. Interestingly the hole appeared where the
grounding wire was held against the copper pipe by a hose clamp. Whether
this was caused by dissimilar metals or just the pressure of the wire on
a very weak tube is guesswork. It might however be prudent to slacken
the clamp to prolong the time before failure. For the past 2 years my
toilets have been on a fresh water flush system, yet the copper tubes
still failed.

As before I got my machine shop to turn up a Teflon connector with a
shoulder beneath the tank bottom and two O-seals above. The one good
thing about the original design is that with care you can work the
rotted copper pipe out of the tank with a pair of grips, leaving a
smooth interior surface for the O-seals to mate against.

There should be a photo of the Teflon coupling on this sight. If it has
been removed, I can send a photo to anyone you is interested.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Cyprus




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toilet fresh or raw

Ian Shepherd
 

You may well be right John. So far, since converting to fresh water flush, I have not had to remove the pipes and descale them but that is not to say that scale is not being formed. Maybe more slowly? Time will tell. Maybe ading some de-scaler to my header tank might be a way of cleaning the pipes as you flush?

Cheers

Ian

On 16/09/2014 14:55, 'Anne and John Hollamby ' annejohnholl@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Hello Pat, I hate to disagree with Ian but the facts are that it is urine that causes the scale to form whether or not sea or freshwater is used to flush. As mentioned the other day the critical thing is to flush the toilet for a minimum of ten seconds  to get the urine out of the system and to listen to other people flushing so that you can remind them of this important need. So far as smelly plumbing after the toilets have not been flushed for sometime we always flush ours thoroughly finishing off with fresh water from the shower and then pump the bowl dry before we leave and then give them a thorough flush when we return. Having seen the problem that Kent had with rusty chain it makes it clear that the anchor chain flush should be converted to fresh to avoid soaking it in salt water when up-anchoring.
 
             Good luck,  Anne and John, Bali Hai,  SM319,  for sale in Malta.
 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toilet fresh or raw
 
 

Pat, I converted Crusader to fresh water flush and I am pleased to say that since doing so, I have not had a build up problem in the pipes. I also installed a device that meters toilet blue into the toilet header tank which goes a long way to keeping the heads smelling fresh. Rather than use the expensive specific blue blocks specified by the  device manafacturer I use regular supermarket toilet blue. The type that is soft and which is wrappped in dis-solvable paper will push into the dispenser and works very well.

My anchor wash is now automatic and is also fresh water. Having a 160  l/h water maker helps. Both mods were I believe well worth while and have given me no problems.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus.

On 13/09/2014 11:56, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

We now have a manual raw toilet in the forward head, only a couple years old. My wife wants me to replace it with an electric one. I am debating between fresh water or raw water. Raw water would be easier to install and we live in fresh water , but will be in salt for six months a year. Fresh water would be more hassle to install and would use a significant amount of our fresh water, but has its advantages of being quiet , no salt build up and reduce smell from rotting organisms in the water. I was wondering if most of you have fresh or salt and which way to go. Of course another option , would be to ignore my wife's wishes .  Thanks, Pat SM 123




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maramu Halyard leads

Nat Bossett
 

#29, as Dave said, is still all external halyards. I like it that way.

My only problem is not having enough halyards, so next time the masts are
down I'll do something like fit a plate to the top of each with rings for
external blocks.

-Nathan

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 02:20:37AM -0700, allezaubon@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
Dear Maramu owners,

we are in the process of having our standing rigging renewed on our1980 Maramu #75.

ALL the halyard leads are external, is this the norm on all older Maramu's??

We still have the original ISOMAT mast which is in excellent condition, according to the rigger.

Any feedback, much appreciated.

Fairwinds and kind seas.

Andy






Re: Maramu Halyard leads

sbmesasailor
 

Hello Andy,

Our Maramu #121 has all halyards external.

Regards,

Dennis Johns
Libertad
Ancona, Italy


Re: Maramu Halyard leads

Andy Croney
 

Thank you, yes all cables are being replaced and the wire halyard is being replaced with Dyneema - which means we also have to replace the original winch - all the best andy


Re: Maramu Halyard leads

Andy Croney
 

Thanks Guys, the mast has been pulled and is horizontal on stands with spreaders removed - all is well a credit to the ISOMAT build - plus all Nav lights  , all shackels and lines have been replaced , we are adding a steaming and deck light combo plus a hailer to the mast - we will leave the existing external Halyard configuration, with oversize shackles, I need to replace the Halyard winch , as it is specifically for wire halyards and we are concerned it will 'eat up" our new dacron mains sail halyard - any advise there, favourite brands ?? all the best and fair winds and kind seas , Andy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Maramu Halyard leads

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

To add to what David wrote it would be a good idea to replace the navigation lights the steaming right and the wires for the VHF with heavier cables

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 23, 2014, at 20:50, "dave_benjamin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Andy,


On Hull #29, we had the original Isomat masts with external halyards. I'd suggest removing the masts for a thorough inspection on stands if that they have not been overhauled in the past 10 or so years. 


Amel 55 - Anyone have rig dimensions (I, J, P, E)

Dave_Benjamin
 

Does anyone know the actual rig dimensions for the 55? Amel isn't publishing much in the way of detail other than sail areas which is totally useless if you're a sailmaker trying to work up some ideas. 


Re: Maramu Halyard leads

Dave_Benjamin
 

Andy,

On Hull #29, we had the original Isomat masts with external halyards. I'd suggest removing the masts for a thorough inspection on stands if that they have not been overhauled in the past 10 or so years. 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] AMEL Supermaramu stair

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Victor,

Mine was also in bad condition.  I looked high and low for a second hand one but obviously they are made from "unobtonium"...

I had a yard (EMEK Marine in Turkey) rebuild mine.  Looks very nice indeed.

Any top notch machine shop should do a decent job.

Regards,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera SM007



On 23 Sep 2014, at 15:03, victor.moleroxx@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello. I own an AMEL Super Maramu 2000 for which I don't have the original ladder and gangway. I would like to buy a second hand one (new are very expensive). Can anyone tell me of any oportunity for this?
Thanks.
Victor




Jean-Pierre Germain,
Chief Pilot, Cozuro Limited,
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...
jp.germain@...


AMEL Supermaramu stair

victor.moleroxx@...
 

Hello. I own an AMEL Super Maramu 2000 for which I don't have the original ladder and gangway. I would like to buy a second hand one (new are very expensive). Can anyone tell me of any oportunity for this?
Thanks.
Victor



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Seals for bow thruster and for main prop shaft

karkauai
 

Hi again Bill,
I just looked at them again and can't find any difference in the 6 I have now.  I'll be interested to see what the difference is when I find someone with spares.  So far mine have worked fine so I won't hustle out there to order any more for now.
Kent


From: "yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 4:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Seals for bow thruster and for main prop shaft

 
Kent,

It is extremely difficult to tell the difference, but they are different.

I recently saw a package of foam seals from Amel and they were separated with a red string tying the two like foam seals together.

I had to look very, very hard to see the difference, but there was a difference, and they will work better and last longer if installed correctly.

Bill
BeBe 387




Re: Seals for bow thruster and for main prop shaft

Gary Wells
 

Agreed. Amel was kind enough to put a swatch of tape on one of the gaskets that said "natural".  The difference is tough to tell otherwise. I can only surmise that there is a difference because the mating surfaces on the thruster motor stays dry, while the thruster mechanism itself lives in water. 
On our teardown earlier this month I found the neoprene gaskets still in very good shape. The contact cement has given way, as had the prop seal, but it was an easy fix once I puzzled out how it all came apart.

I found it much easier to remove the four retaining screws and tap out the thruster propeller shaft and gear for inspection, then replace the prop shaft seal (vs. drilling small holes and setting screws). 

Next time around will take a lot less time :)

Thanks again to the helpful group members who coached me through it. 

Gary W. 
SM #209 ADAGIO

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


Maramu Halyard leads

Andy Croney
 

Dear Maramu owners,

we are in the process of having our standing rigging renewed on our1980 Maramu #75.

ALL the halyard leads are external, is this the norm on all older Maramu's??

We still have the original ISOMAT mast which is in excellent condition, according to the rigger.

Any feedback, much appreciated.

Fairwinds and kind seas.

Andy






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Seals for bow thruster and for main prop shaft

yahoogroups@...
 

Kent,

It is extremely difficult to tell the difference, but they are different.

I recently saw a package of foam seals from Amel and they were separated with a red string tying the two like foam seals together.

I had to look very, very hard to see the difference, but there was a difference, and they will work better and last longer if installed correctly.

Bill
BeBe 387


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Efector Anchor Chain Counter Sensor

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Bill

 

Many thanks indeed – much appreciated – I am glad that I asked the forum before guddling about with the wiring -  I do hope it is simply me being an idiot and not reading the manual or a blown fuse. I will find out in 3 weeks when I am next back at the boat!

 

thanks

 

Andrew

Ronpische

SM2k 472

Canet en Roussillion, France

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 9:54 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Efector Anchor Chain Counter Sensor

 

 

Andrew,

 

When our sensor failed it would report all sorts of false readings and with the anchor up and secured, it would start counting up or down.

 

The anchor counter operates with 12 volts supplied by one of the three 24v to 12v SAILOR converters below the nav table, inside the right hand door. I believe it is the same converter that supplies 12V to the cigarette lighter. This is the converter market "PERMANENT." There is an ON/OFF toggle switch and extra fuses on the converter. If you plug something with too many amps into the cigarette lighter, or the 12VDC socket at the nav station, you will blow a fuse.

 

I would check that first if you have recently used this 12VDC power for somethng.

 

If not, read the following:

 

The anchor chain system can be powered off by pressing the reset button for 7 seconds.

 

The Reset button functions are:

  • Press momentarily - turns back-light ON/OFF
  • Press for 3 seconds - resets counter to zero
  • Press for 7 seconds - turns the anchor monitor OFF

It is possible to accidentally turn it OFF when trying to reset the counter to zero.

 

I hope this helps you.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:12 AM, andrew.lamb@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

My anchor chain counter seems to have stopped working this weekend, but the display is simply showing nothing at all so I am wondering if it is a problem in the main unit rather than the sensor. I haven't yet gone behind to check power etc, but I thought I would ask a question to those who have had a sensor failure - what happened did the display show a number which would not change or does the whole unit go off?

 

thanks

 

Andrew

Ronpische

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Delivery address in Washington DC

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Eric,

Thank you for this information as well.

For all of you:  I went to Port Adriano, Majorca, Spain (Near my house.. I live on Majorca) to enquire about mooring fees when we bring Eleuthera back from refit.  We expect to be here 1 month before casting off.  For June 14, the price was €131/night (there will be a hike for 15) with no monthly berthing option.  They should not wonder why they have so many empty berths!!!

I will ask elsewhere!!

Cheers,

Jean-Pierre


On 23 Sep 2014, at 04:20, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

If you purchase an item from west marine in DC you will have to also pay the sales tax. If it is shipped to you from Defender in Connecticut there is no sales tax.
I guess it is just the tax VS the shipping cost.
Fair winds,
eric
sm376 Kimberlite

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:52 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Delivery address in Washington DC
To: amelyachtowners@...

> Jean-Pierre Germain,
>
>
>
> I believe someone has already suggest making your purchase at
> West Marine
> and having them ship to a store near the location of your
> business trip. You
> will find West Marine to have the highest prices of any USA retailer.
> However, they will price match others on the internet, including
> DefenderMarine. You have two options for the price match. You
> can call you order in
> and inform them of the lower price at Defender. They will look
> it up and
> adjust the purchase price. Or, when you pick up the merchandise
> in the store
> (this is when you actually pay for it even though you entered
> credit card
> info in while online), you can show the Defender price and they
> will match
> it at the pickup. I have used this method often.
>
>
>
> I'm all about saving money!
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> SM2K #275
>
> www.creampuff.us
>
>
>
>
>
> From: amelyachtowners@...
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 3:59 AM
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Delivery address in Washington DC
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello ladies and gentlemen floaters,
>
> During the refit for Eleuthera, SM 007, I must replace ancient
> electronicswith more up-to-date kit. I trawled the Internet,
> went to the Southampton
> boat show , ask other boating friends, and finally Realized the
> best place to
> buy my electronics is in the USA.
>
> As luck would have it, I have a business trip to Washington in early
> December. If you live in the area would you mind accepting
> delivery of my
> new electronics, HF, Pactor Modem, antenna tuner etc etc?
>
> The price difference between buying from Defender Marine And the
> lowestprice in Europe is still 50% less....
>
> THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE NO-BRAINER.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jean-Pierre Germain
> Eleuthera , SM 007
>
>
>
>
>
>


Jean-Pierre Germain,
Chief Pilot, Cozuro Limited,
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...
jp.germain@...