Hi Ian,

Please send me a photo.
Kimberlite@...
Fair winds
eric
sm 376 Kimberlite

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, September 15, 2014 7:52 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Second Holding Tank Failure
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

As happened with my aft heads holding tank about 18 months ago,
the
copper pipe that connects the holding tank to the drain pipe in
the
forward heads failed. Interestingly the hole appeared where the
grounding wire was held against the copper pipe by a hose clamp.
Whether
this was caused by dissimilar metals or just the pressure of the
wire on
a very weak tube is guesswork. It might however be prudent to
slacken
the clamp to prolong the time before failure. For the past 2
years my
toilets have been on a fresh water flush system, yet the copper
tubes
still failed.

As before I got my machine shop to turn up a Teflon connector
with a
shoulder beneath the tank bottom and two O-seals above. The one
good
thing about the original design is that with care you can work
the
rotted copper pipe out of the tank with a pair of grips, leaving
a
smooth interior surface for the O-seals to mate against.

There should be a photo of the Teflon coupling on this sight. If
it has
been removed, I can send a photo to anyone you is interested.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Cyprus

 

Ian,

 

Thanks for the posting about the replacing the copper tube going into the holding tank. I hope I never have to do this, but it is good to know that there is a potential solution.  I have seen your picture of the replacement you had made.  Ingenious!  If you could post the exact dimensions of your replacement pipe that would be very useful.  For someone planning on circumnavigating it might be worthwhile getting a spare made up even before it is critically needed.

 

I note that you refer to the original piping as a copper pipe - but is it really a brass pipe?  Copper seems like a poor choice for this fitting.  I thought it looked like brass, but then I have not examined this pipe as carefully as you have. 

 

I am also wondering if there was something in the way you maintained the heads that ate away the metal - it does not seem intuitive that fresh water flushing would accelerate the erosion, and it would be curious if the stainless steel clamp for the bonding wire created the problem - if so, perhaps electrically bonding this particular piece of metal is counter-productive.  Do you (or did you prior to the fresh water flushing) do regular acid or alkalai washes, perhaps leaving the acid or alkalai in the pipe for long term storage/cleaning purposes? Some acids are much stronger than others (e.g muriatic acid (HCl) is >>> acetic acid (white vinegar) and of course need to be used with care and adequately neutralized and flushed.

 

Just curious,

 

Derick

SM2K #400 Brava

 

Ian,

Do you think that blue airplane water that you flush with, may have something to do with the deterioration of the pipe?   

For those that do not know it, Ian added a flush water tank which automatically fills with fresh water when the water in the tank gets low. He also added a chemical to the water that makes the flush water look like that blue water on airplanes. Ian was a BA 747 Captain before being self-promoted to a Super Maramu Captain. He is vainly trying to get as many miles sailing as he did flying. He has logged more than most of us, but I do not think he will match his 747 miles. ;) ;)

Bill

BeBe 387

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Oooh, nasty job Ian. I checked my tanks after your first problem and my copper pipes look fine.  I wonder why yours are disintegrating and my older ones aren't???

If it failed at the bonding point could there be some stray current causing the problem?

Is that where the other one failed, too?

I feel for you.  I had to replace the hoses on both heads when I bought the boat...my crew gave me a hat with a skunk on it that said "Team Skunk".

Kent

SM243

Kristy

On Sep 15, 2014, at 7:51 AM, "Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

As happened with my aft heads holding tank about 18 months ago, the
copper pipe that connects the holding tank to the drain pipe in the
forward heads failed. Interestingly the hole appeared where the
grounding wire was held against the copper pipe by a hose clamp. Whether
this was caused by dissimilar metals or just the pressure of the wire on
a very weak tube is guesswork. It might however be prudent to slacken
the clamp to prolong the time before failure. For the past 2 years my
toilets have been on a fresh water flush system, yet the copper tubes
still failed.

As before I got my machine shop to turn up a Teflon connector with a
shoulder beneath the tank bottom and two O-seals above. The one good
thing about the original design is that with care you can work the
rotted copper pipe out of the tank with a pair of grips, leaving a
smooth interior surface for the O-seals to mate against.

There should be a photo of the Teflon coupling on this sight. If it has
been removed, I can send a photo to anyone you is interested.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Cyprus

 

Hello Pat, I hate to disagree with Ian but the facts are that it is urine that causes the scale to form whether or not sea or freshwater is used to flush. As mentioned the other day the critical thing is to flush the toilet for a minimum of ten seconds  to get the urine out of the system and to listen to other people flushing so that you can remind them of this important need. So far as smelly plumbing after the toilets have not been flushed for sometime we always flush ours thoroughly finishing off with fresh water from the shower and then pump the bowl dry before we leave and then give them a thorough flush when we return. Having seen the problem that Kent had with rusty chain it makes it clear that the anchor chain flush should be converted to fresh to avoid soaking it in salt water when up-anchoring.

 

             Good luck,  Anne and John, Bali Hai,  SM319,  for sale in Malta.

 

From: mailto:amelyachtowners@...

Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:27 PM

To: amelyachtowners@...

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Toilet fresh or raw

 

 

Pat, I converted Crusader to fresh water flush and I am pleased to say that since doing so, I have not had a build up problem in the pipes. I also installed a device that meters toilet blue into the toilet header tank which goes a long way to keeping the heads smelling fresh. Rather than use the expensive specific blue blocks specified by the  device manafacturer I use regular supermarket toilet blue. The type that is soft and which is wrappped in dis-solvable paper will push into the dispenser and works very well.

My anchor wash is now automatic and is also fresh water. Having a 160  l/h water maker helps. Both mods were I believe well worth while and have given me no problems.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Cyprus.

On 13/09/2014 11:56, sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

We now have a manual raw toilet in the forward head, only a couple years old. My wife wants me to replace it with an electric one. I am debating between fresh water or raw water. Raw water would be easier to install and we live in fresh water , but will be in salt for six months a year. Fresh water would be more hassle to install and would use a significant amount of our fresh water, but has its advantages of being quiet , no salt build up and reduce smell from rotting organisms in the water. I was wondering if most of you have fresh or salt and which way to go. Of course another option , would be to ignore my wife's wishes .  Thanks, Pat SM 123

Dear Maramu owners,

we are in the process of having our standing rigging renewed on our1980 Maramu #75.

ALL the halyard leads are external, is this the norm on all older Maramu's??

We still have the original ISOMAT mast which is in excellent condition, according to the rigger.

Any feedback, much appreciated.

Fairwinds and kind seas.

Andy

 

Andy,

On Hull #29, we had the original Isomat masts with external halyards. I'd suggest removing the masts for a thorough inspection on stands if that they have not been overhauled in the past 10 or so years.