Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

yahoogroups@...
 

Pat,

Whoever you spoke to at Lofrans is wrong, very wrong.  Did you download the Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf.

Please read it and you will see that 10mm chain is made from 10mm (3/8") stock which is manufactured in what most people refer to as two different "pitches" (pitch is referring to the dimension of the link, not the stock). The DIN766 has links that are 2 mm different than the ISO4565 standard. DIN766 is 28mm long and ISO4565 is 30mm long. These chains will NOT work properly in the same Gypsy...different Gypsies are required for each.

I have found that most people do not get their heads around the difference between ISO4565 and DIN766, mostly because there is not a common and accepted way to explain the difference...let me try...

ISO4565 and DIN766 each are made with 10mm stock. The difference is that the size of the links are different. Now to really confuse you, if you compare any other size stock, like 8mm, or 12mm, the links are identical sizes with ISO4565 and DIN766.

Your 10mm chain needs a different Gypsy for ISO than DIN...but only if 10mm (3/8").

I really hope this solves your issue and helps you get what you need.

Bill
BeBe 387



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

OK, I feel really foolish asking this question, but I need to ask it.  What part of the bronze wearing-out bearing wears out? Does the wearing-out bearing rotate with the shaft, so that the outer surface next to the three seals wears, or is my assumption correct that the wearing-out bearing stays static relative to the seals and instead the propeller shaft rotates inside it, wearing out the inner surfaces of the bronze wearing-out bearing?  Other than water in the transmission oil, or loss of oil, how can you tell by inspection that the wearing-out bearing is worn out?

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Face Book

Nat Bossett
 

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:34:04AM -0400, Mark Erdos mcerdos@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] wrote:
What is the link to the Amel Community page on Face Book?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/amelyachtowners/


Face Book

Mark Erdos
 

What is the link to the Amel Community page on Face Book?

Mark
SM#275


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Kent,

You probably saw the boat that was holed  sitting next to the Chandlery at Peakes.  There  is an article in Offshore this month about Ivan and one mans loss, but it really doesn’t do justice to the damage done. Because of Ivan, about  90% of the roofs are new and very pretty. Also regarding chain, I upgraded to the Rocna as well and upgraded the chain to 3/8 HT. I changed the gypsy to accommodate to the longer link. I also added a portside anchor roller and moved my CQR there. Neither anchor is in the way and makes it possible to do a Bahamian moor. I would double check the strength of the swivel between the anchor and chain. Many swivels and shackles  that fit the chain have a lower MWL and breaking strength than the chain.  I also added two zincs on the exposed chain near the anchor. Loved the Bruce anchors in the Chesapeake. Just drop it, pay out 30’ and walk away. Sets every time because of the mud bottom . Not so good in coral, rocks.  Still carry he 33.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Stuck in Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 9:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

 

Thanks , Annsophie,

Darn, I guess that means I'll have to get a Facebook account.  I've been avoiding it up til now.

Kent


On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Ann-Sofie Svanberg kanalmamman@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You can read about it on the Amel Yachtowners page on Facebok

 

/Annsofie

SY Lady Annila SM232

Skickat från min iPad


25 sep 2014 kl. 15:25 skrev "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I heard a rumor about that boat Bill.  Was it a boat that's been represented on this site?  I'd sure like to know more about what happened.

 

Pat, that's exactly what I did before I bought my Rocna.  I had them send me a life size drawing of the anchor, made a mockup out of cardboard, and tried it out on the roller to confirm that it would fit.  The "roll bar" snugs up against the portside vertical rollers on my boat just when the throat comes up on the horizontal roller...very secure.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy

 


From: "yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

 

 

Regarding the question about the anchor, there are at least 3 Super Maramu Bow rollers. I think that you should make a cardboard cutout of the anchor you want and see if it will fit. It may fit on your SM, but not fit on others.

 

There are two things that you should look at, and these two things will likely answer all of your chain questions. 

 

 

And download this file which is "Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf" Clicking on the following will automatically download the file:

 

I have seen 10mm chain measure 9mm+/- because the zinc is totally gone. Once the metal starts rusting I am sure that 10mm will get close to 8mm in some places.

 

I am sure that most of you know that a few months ago a Super Maramu was lost at a Pacific Atoll when his chain broke. It went on a reef and was a total loss. I do not know if the chain was defective, old, or possibly was cut by sharp coral. New chain is not that expensive when you consider what it does for you.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Thanks for sending gypsy photo. I always thought my chain looked small. My gypsy is stamped 3/8  DIN 766 . Just spoke to Lofran ,the 3/8 is very misleading, the DIN766 means its a 5/16 proof coil gypsy. Why they would  put 5/16 proof coil on a 53 ft. boat makes no sense to me , its rated at 1900 vs 5400 working load for 3/8 HT.  Thanks Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Thu, Sep 25, 2014 3:16 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

Regarding the question about the anchor, there are at least 3 Super Maramu Bow rollers. I think that you should make a cardboard cutout of the anchor you want and see if it will fit. It may fit on your SM, but not fit on others.

There are two things that you should look at, and these two things will likely answer all of your chain questions. 


And download this file which is "Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf" Clicking on the following will automatically download the file:

I have seen 10mm chain measure 9mm+/- because the zinc is totally gone. Once the metal starts rusting I am sure that 10mm will get close to 8mm in some places.

< div>I am sure that most of you know that a few months ago a Super Maramu was lost at a Pacific Atoll when his chain broke. It went on a reef and was a total loss. I do not know if the chain was defective, old, or possibly was cut by sharp coral. New chain is not that expensive when you consider what it does for you.

Bill
BeBe 387
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

karkauai
 

Thanks , Annsophie,
Darn, I guess that means I'll have to get a Facebook account.  I've been avoiding it up til now.
Kent


On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Ann-Sofie Svanberg kanalmamman@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You can read about it on the Amel Yachtowners page on Facebok

/Annsofie
SY Lady Annila SM232

Skickat från min iPad

25 sep 2014 kl. 15:25 skrev "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I heard a rumor about that boat Bill.  Was it a boat that's been represented on this site?  I'd sure like to know more about what happened.

Pat, that's exactly what I did before I bought my Rocna.  I had them send me a life size drawing of the anchor, made a mockup out of cardboard, and tried it out on the roller to confirm that it would fit.  The "roll bar" snugs up against the portside vertical rollers on my boat just when the throat comes up on the horizontal roller...very secure.

Kent
SM243
Kristy


From: "yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

Regarding the question about the anchor, there are at least 3 Super Maramu Bow rollers. I think that you should make a cardboard cutout of the anchor you want and see if it will fit. It may fit on your SM, but not fit on others.

There are two things that you should look at, and these two things will likely answer all of your chain questions. 


And download this file which is "Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf" Clicking on the following will automatically download the file:

I have seen 10mm chain measure 9mm+/- because the zinc is totally gone. Once the metal starts rusting I am sure that 10mm will get close to 8mm in some places.

I am sure that most of you know that a few months ago a Super Maramu was lost at a Pacific Atoll when his chain broke. It went on a reef and was a total loss. I do not know if the chain was defective, old, or possibly was cut by sharp coral. New chain is not that expensive when you consider what it does for you.

Bill
BeBe 387
 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

karkauai
 

Hi Craig.
Your description is correct, and I believe all you say about electrical potential.  The only things that are different this time from previously are the SS WOB, and the two new chargers I added about a year prior to discovering the prop shaft damage.  About two years prior to the last haul out, I changed to a MaxProp and put on their prop zinc.  It has always worn out faster than the rudder zincs.I have to believe that I will find the problem with the installation of the chargers, but will wait until I'm back on the water to check for current leaks.
I am going to add an isolator to the AC circuit after I figure out what happened.
Kent
SM243
KRISTY 

Y'all will be the first to know.


On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:44 AM, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent, 


If I recall correctly you had replaced the original Amel bronze "wearing out bearing" (WOB) with a stainless steel one you had fabricated, correct?  That is, you did not use an SKF "Speedi-Sleeve" over the bronze.
(Perhaps based on some of my old posts reporting the SKF engineer's input.)

If that's right it seems implausible there was electrolysis between the shaft and the WOB.  That's because, first, your new WOB was the same metal as the shaft (perhaps a different grade, but virtually the same on the electrolysis scale). Second, the WOB is electrically connected to the shaft with the retaining grub screws and therefore is at the same electrical potential.  

And, for that matter, had you used the Speedi-sleeves, the electrolysis you describe would be similarly implausible.

We'd all really like to know the exact cause of the failure, of course. You say it was under the WOB on the water side of the "O" ring, correct?  Was there anything else fitted to the shaft like "spurs" or a zinc that might enter into the equation? 

Quite the mystery.

Craig 
SN#68 - Sangaris 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

You can read about it on the Amel Yachtowners page on Facebok

/Annsofie
SY Lady Annila SM232

Skickat från min iPad

25 sep 2014 kl. 15:25 skrev "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I heard a rumor about that boat Bill.  Was it a boat that's been represented on this site?  I'd sure like to know more about what happened.

Pat, that's exactly what I did before I bought my Rocna.  I had them send me a life size drawing of the anchor, made a mockup out of cardboard, and tried it out on the roller to confirm that it would fit.  The "roll bar" snugs up against the portside vertical rollers on my boat just when the throat comes up on the horizontal roller...very secure.

Kent
SM243
Kristy


From: "yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

Regarding the question about the anchor, there are at least 3 Super Maramu Bow rollers. I think that you should make a cardboard cutout of the anchor you want and see if it will fit. It may fit on your SM, but not fit on others.

There are two things that you should look at, and these two things will likely answer all of your chain questions. 


And download this file which is "Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf" Clicking on the following will automatically download the file:

I have seen 10mm chain measure 9mm+/- because the zinc is totally gone. Once the metal starts rusting I am sure that 10mm will get close to 8mm in some places.

I am sure that most of you know that a few months ago a Super Maramu was lost at a Pacific Atoll when his chain broke. It went on a reef and was a total loss. I do not know if the chain was defective, old, or possibly was cut by sharp coral. New chain is not that expensive when you consider what it does for you.

Bill
BeBe 387
 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

Hi Pat
I think that someone has changed the chain, standard is 10 mm. And yes the Rocna fit on a SM we have it, you can see pictures in the album LadyAnnila. Ours is 40 kg and we have 10 mm chain.

/Annsofie
Lady Annila SM232

Skickat från min iPad

25 sep 2014 kl. 10:26 skrev "svshenanigans@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I just measured my chain and it looks like its 8 mm. ,which is between 5/16 and 3/8 ,closer to 5/16. I do not know how old it is , but most of the galvanization is gone . Is that heavy enough for a 53 ft. boat ? I am second guessing my anchor as well after reading some comparisons between Bruce and Rocna. I have a Bruce 66 lbs. and here in the Bay it has always held well in the mud we have , but  wonder about conditions in the Caribbean. Does the Rocna fit the bow on a SM , any thoughts on chain, anchor , and size would be appreciated.  Thanks,  Pat SM 123


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Craig Briggs
 

Kent, 

If I recall correctly you had replaced the original Amel bronze "wearing out bearing" (WOB) with a stainless steel one you had fabricated, correct?  That is, you did not use an SKF "Speedi-Sleeve" over the bronze.
(Perhaps based on some of my old posts reporting the SKF engineer's input.)

If that's right it seems implausible there was electrolysis between the shaft and the WOB.  That's because, first, your new WOB was the same metal as the shaft (perhaps a different grade, but virtually the same on the electrolysis scale). Second, the WOB is electrically connected to the shaft with the retaining grub screws and therefore is at the same electrical potential.  

And, for that matter, had you used the Speedi-sleeves, the electrolysis you describe would be similarly implausible.

We'd all really like to know the exact cause of the failure, of course. You say it was under the WOB on the water side of the "O" ring, correct?  Was there anything else fitted to the shaft like "spurs" or a zinc that might enter into the equation? 

Quite the mystery.

Craig 
SN#68 - Sangaris 


Transmission oil cooler

Eric Freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Fwd: Onan Training Option

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Derick,

There are some photos of the transmission cooler and the trash/barnacle pieces I removed from it posted here: 


There is a rubber boot on each side of the cooler. With the sea cock closed and the sea chest empty (if possible use a wet vac to empty it) open the sea chest side of the cooler by loosening the clamp on the larger end of the boot. You will want to have your wet vac ready to suck the remaining water when you pull the boot off of the cooler. The wet vac is the best thing I have found to clean the cooler and the boot area...just suck all of the trash out. There is no need to do the aft side of the cooler.

There are pieces of trash that can get past the strainer, but are stopped by the small pipes in the cooler. This will happen to you in the tropics when small mussels and barnacles like to breed in the sea chest. If you are at a marina and running A/C weekly inspection of the sea chest is very important...maybe 2 times a week.

The Mack Boring Diesel class I attended did not cover transmissions or its cooler. They had 5 different models of engines for the class. I was lucky that there was one 100hp turbo for the class and I was the only one out of 20 that had that engine. There were 4 or 5 guys working on each of the other engines. I do not think they got as much out of the class as I did.

Bill
BeBe 387



On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 10:07 PM, derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kent,

 

Thanks for researching this.  I would prefer meeting during the summer, when Brava will be on the hard in the Caribbean for hurricane season, rather than during the winter/spring, when I would rather be sailing!  However, I will be flexible as the group decides.

 

My email address is: derickgates "at" comcast "dot" net

 

Brava has a 100 HP Yanmar Model 4JH3-HTE with ~3700 hours on it.

 

I recently had the salt water cooling pump replaced because it was leaking water from the seal.  As you know, this is on the inaccessible side of the engine, and I would love to see better what I did, as well as how to efficiently replace the associated impeller.


I would also like to see how to dismantle the seawater cooling for the transmission oil cooling.

 

Add to that everything to do with the replacement of the oil filte r (on the engine), changing the oil, and trouble shooting all electrical systems on the engine (shut-off and starter solenoids, alternators, etc.)

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava



Re: Anchor and chain

Gary Wells
 

Rocna 40 Kg fit perfectly on SM #209. The roll bar does indeed snug up quite nicely, although it blocks the use of a second anchor on the other roller. Studying this one for a solution, but happy that the Rocna fit in without any grief.


Gary W. SM #209




Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Gary Wells
 

If I understand from the first post, this solution has no steel-to-steel contact. The sleeve fits over the wear surface of the existing bronze, creating a contact surface only with the seals themselves (which have to be enlarged accordingly). Did I get that right?  The only risk I can see is if somehow the press-fit were to give way and the sleeve would get loose against the prop shaft bearing. I can't fathom how that could happen if the press fit is really good, but they are dissimilar metals and would heat and cool slightly differently.   Speaking of hypotheses :) 


Re: Onan Training Option

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Kent,

 

Thanks for researching this.  I would prefer meeting during the summer, when Brava will be on the hard in the Caribbean for hurricane season, rather than during the winter/spring, when I would rather be sailing!  However, I will be flexible as the group decides.

 

My email address is: derickgates "at" comcast "dot" net

 

Brava has a 100 HP Yanmar Model 4JH3-HTE with ~3700 hours on it.

 

I recently had the salt water cooling pump replaced because it was leaking water from the seal.  As you know, this is on the inaccessible side of the engine, and I would love to see better what I did, as well as how to efficiently replace the associated impeller.


I would also like to see how to dismantle the seawater cooling for the transmission oil cooling.

 

Add to that everything to do with the replacement of the oil filter (on the engine), changing the oil, and trouble shooting all electrical systems on the engine (shut-off and starter solenoids, alternators, etc.)

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diesel Class

karkauai
 

Hi Mike,
I did download to Rendezvous list, but can't find it.
Please email me and Jeff as on my previous post.
Thanks,
Kent


On Sep 25, 2014, at 5:11 PM, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I think you nailed the scope for a one day class curriculum. Turbo issues
should be part of it as well.

Could be fun over Rendezvous weekend, or a nice getaway during the winter.

Thanks for working on this and keep me on the list.

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 w/Volvo

Mdondra at Verizon dot net

Do you have the spreadsheet list from the 2014 Rendezvous?

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diesel Class

Hi everyone,
Ric's suggestion that I call Jeff Leitch at BayShore Marine in Annapolis
looks like it might pan out.

Jeff would like for all of us who are interested to contact him directly and
let him know just what you'd like to get out of a diesel class. BayShore
Marine is a Yanmar dealer and would be using Yanmar engines for the class.
Those with Volvos would be learning the theory etc, but would have to
translate it to their engines.
Please contact him at jwleitch "at" verizon "dot" net and give him an idea
of what you'd like to learn. Please copy to me at karkauai "at" yahoo "dot"
com.

He doesn't think he'll have time this Fall. How would everyone feel about
doing it next Summer in conjunction with the Amel Rendezvous?

He doesn't think that tearing an engine down completely would be worth the
added time and expense. I told him I would like to have a better idea of
how all the different parts work, and how to diagnose and troubleshoot the
most common problems, what parts we should have in our spares, what special
tools would be worth having, and some hands on experience with servicing the
things we could repair or replace ourselves.

I don't have most of your contact information, and don't see a way to get it
from this website.

Those who have expressed an interest so far:
Ross..............rossny at ymail dot com
Derick Gates........
Veit Mueller..........
Mike Ondra............
Mark Erdos..........
Jim DeSalvo...........
Kent Robertson........

Please send me your contact info. Anyone else who is interested, please let
me know.
Kent
SM243
Kristy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Bill,

 

I found the Capital Area Technology website and the $10 part that is being referred to in this thread.  The link is:

 

http://www.capitolareatechnology.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=LRT+455030 

 I am wondering whether Kent is right about the cause of his prop shaft corrosion being the stainless steel sleeve he installed a few years ago, but for a different reason than electolysis.  We are all aware that stainless steel will corrode when deprived of oxygen.  Maybe instead of electrolysis, Kent's prop shaft was so tightly fitted to the stainless steel liner for his wear bearing that it created an oxygen-deprived environment between the two stainless steel surfaces.

 

Just a hypothesis...

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diesel Class

Mike Ondra
 

Kent,



I think you nailed the scope for a one day class curriculum. Turbo issues
should be part of it as well.



Could be fun over Rendezvous weekend, or a nice getaway during the winter.



Thanks for working on this and keep me on the list.



Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 w/Volvo

Mdondra at Verizon dot net

Do you have the spreadsheet list from the 2014 Rendezvous?



From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diesel Class





Hi everyone,
Ric's suggestion that I call Jeff Leitch at BayShore Marine in Annapolis
looks like it might pan out.

Jeff would like for all of us who are interested to contact him directly and
let him know just what you'd like to get out of a diesel class. BayShore
Marine is a Yanmar dealer and would be using Yanmar engines for the class.
Those with Volvos would be learning the theory etc, but would have to
translate it to their engines.
Please contact him at jwleitch "at" verizon "dot" net and give him an idea
of what you'd like to learn. Please copy to me at karkauai "at" yahoo "dot"
com.

He doesn't think he'll have time this Fall. How would everyone feel about
doing it next Summer in conjunction with the Amel Rendezvous?

He doesn't think that tearing an engine down completely would be worth the
added time and expense. I told him I would like to have a better idea of
how all the different parts work, and how to diagnose and troubleshoot the
most common problems, what parts we should have in our spares, what special
tools would be worth having, and some hands on experience with servicing the
things we could repair or replace ourselves.

I don't have most of your contact information, and don't see a way to get it
from this website.

Those who have expressed an interest so far:
Ross..............rossny at ymail dot com
Derick Gates........
Veit Mueller..........
Mike Ondra............
Mark Erdos..........
Jim DeSalvo...........
Kent Robertson........

Please send me your contact info. Anyone else who is interested, please let
me know.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Diesel Class

karkauai
 

Hi everyone,
Ric's suggestion that I call Jeff Leitch at BayShore Marine in Annapolis looks like it might pan out.

Jeff would like for all of us who are interested to contact him directly and let him know just what you'd like to get out of a diesel class.  BayShore Marine is a Yanmar dealer and would be using Yanmar engines for the class.  Those with Volvos would be learning the theory etc, but would have to translate it to their engines.
Please contact him at jwleitch "at" verizon "dot" net and give him an idea of what you'd like to learn.  Please copy to me at karkauai "at" yahoo "dot" com.

He doesn't think he'll have time this Fall.  How would everyone feel about doing it next Summer in conjunction with the Amel Rendezvous?

He doesn't think that tearing an engine down completely would be worth the added time and expense.  I told him I would like to have a better idea of how all the different parts work, and how to diagnose and troubleshoot the most common problems, what parts we should have in our spares, what special tools would be worth having, and some hands on experience with servicing the things we could repair or replace ourselves.

I don't have most of your contact information, and don't see a way to get it from this website.

Those who have expressed an interest so far:
Ross..............rossny at ymail dot com
Derick Gates........
Veit Mueller..........
Mike Ondra............
Mark Erdos..........
Jim DeSalvo...........
Kent Robertson........

Please send me your contact info.  Anyone else who is interested, please let me know.
Kent
SM243
Kristy