Date   

Re: Propshaft wearing ring

drew.gaffney@...
 

The grooves on the WOB with steel sleeve on Kali Mera seem much deeper than I've seen.  I wonder there was a seal-size mismatch?
How many engine hours since the last seal change?
Was there enough seawater in the oil to have decreased its lubricity?
In South Africa, I had stainless steel WOB's made using new, Amel-supplied bronze WOB's as a "pattern"..  The machinist commented that these bronze WOB's  were considerably "out of round".  
The cost of the new S/S WOB's was less than 1/3rd the price of the bronze WOB's.
I would be curious to know whether owners are putting 2 of 3 seals inward to keep the oil in (per Amel) or outward to keep sea water out?

Drew and Lili
SY Revelation SM#390
Chaguaramas, Trinidad


Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Derick,
To add to Bill's reply, no, the WOB does not stay static relative to the seals.  The seals are fixed in the outer housing and the WOB, which is fixed to the shaft, turns with the shaft, keeping contact with the seals.  The WOB wears out as the seals make a groove in it's outer surface.  The pictures that Herb posted of Kali Mera's WOB show the grooves amazingly well.  

Herb - per the engineer from SKF I reported on in an earlier post, 316 Stainless is not hard enough - he recommended harder types or adding Speedi-Seals, which you could do on either the Amel supplied bronze WOB or a fabricated SS version.  I wonder what type was used on your old WOB - that's one seriously grooved WOB.

Finally, Derick, you really can't tell by inspection that the WOB is worn out - that is, grooved, without removing it. The tell-tale "chocolate milk" oil in the reservoir is the signal that the WOB is, well, worn out.  

Cheers,
Craig - SN#68 - Sangaris


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rust on keel

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Tadeja and Herbert,

I had such a problem on Eleuthera.  The fix is simple and relatively inexpensive.  Sandblast the keel area ensuring you get to real metal... no rust at all left.  Then epoxy prime, light sand and apply some epoxy paint X as many coats as you wish.

Cheers,


Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007


On 26 Sep 2014, at 18:57, herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

dear group,

When we hauled out to change the shaft-seals I found out (after cleaning the bottom) that there are many small (and some bigger) rust-stains on the keel.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1059967243

I uploaded a foto "rust on keel" and circled the area. 

Has anyone experience how to handle this? Is it necessary to "sand-blast" the complete keel and put new epoxy on it? Any hints?

thank you


tadeja and herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, Kusadasi




Posted by: herbert@...
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: [Amel] rust on keel

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Herbert,

I used International 2-part epoxy paint/primer...about 3 or 4 coats. It is very important to do this in dry weather and to not leave the steel exposed longer than a few minutes...get the steel shiny, then paint it with epoxy.

I am sure there are other epoxy paints that will work.

Bill
BeBe

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 6:27 PM, herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Bill !

we will do this this winter, revewing everything, together with scraping down all the old antifouling.

Any recommendation for the material?

Tadeja and Herbert
KALI MERA, SN120



Re: [Amel] rust on keel

Herbert Lackner
 

Thanks Bill !

we will do this this winter, revewing everything, together with scraping down all the old antifouling.

Any recommendation for the material?

Tadeja and Herbert
KALI MERA, SN120


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

yahoogroups@...
 

Herbert,

Looking at that photo, I am thinking that the steel wear bushing has been in place for 2 or 3 sets of seals. A single seal will wear a single groove in the wear bushing...the old bushing you removed looks like that bushing has seen multiple seals.

I always, always change the bushing and the seals and I do it every two years when we renew anti fouling. I believe that 800 engine hours is the limit for the bushing and the seals. I have changed them at 400 hours because I was hauling the boat and had only put 400 hours on the bushing and the seals since the last haul out.


Bill
BeBe 387


Re: [Amel] rust on keel

yahoogroups@...
 

Herbert,

Read this written by Joel Potter:


It is not urgent that you do this, but if I were you, I would do it on your next scheduled haulout.

Bill
387




Prop shaft wear bushing alternatives and seals and sourcing alternatives

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I know that some very experienced people have suggested changing the prop shaft wear bushings to stainless, or using a stainless sleeve, and/or some other method. There are probably 6 unproven theories on this issue. I think it all started because some of us believe that Amel overcharges for the wear bushing (and they probably do). Then, of course, the theories about changing the Amel-suggested orientation of the oil/water seals that fit on the wear bushing. Then, additionally, various other sources of the seals, and O rings in the place of springs...yada, yada, yada...I am getting a headache remembering all of this stuff.

For what it is worth, I think that Amel has much more experience with this than any one Amel owner, and certainly more than me. 

I am sorry if I disagree with some of you, who, by the way, I respect immensely...BUT, haulouts and C Drives are for too expensive for me to start diddling with the small stuff. I am sticking with Amel for these parts. I could not sleep at night if I started playing Russian Roulette.

 I hope I haven't ruffled too many feathers, but I just had to say this...I promise, I will not say it again.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 5:51 PM, herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


This summer we had water in the drive-oil (milky) so we hauled and changed the sealings.  We found out that there was a steel wearing ring and not the brass ring from Amel.  When the seals have been changed last haul-out only the sealings have been changed, according to the "professional" there is nothing else to do. Now I learned that the wearing ring should be changed always when the seals are changed, it is an inexpensive item from Amel (compared to an extra haul-out)

I uploaded some fotos to show how the (steel) wearing ring looks at end of life...

Th wearing ring is fixed to the shaft and the outer surface is next to the three seals.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1059967243

fair winds,

tadeja and herbert,
KALI MERA, SN 120, Kusadasi



Rust on keel

Herbert Lackner
 

dear group,

When we hauled out to change the shaft-seals I found out (after cleaning the bottom) that there are many small (and some bigger) rust-stains on the keel.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1059967243

I uploaded a foto "rust on keel" and circled the area. 

Has anyone experience how to handle this? Is it necessary to "sand-blast" the complete keel and put new epoxy on it? Any hints?

thank you


tadeja and herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, Kusadasi



Amel lost because of broken anchor chain

yahoogroups@...
 

Pat requested more detail on the Amel lost in the Pacific because of a broken anchor chain.


The following was posted by Alan Leslie on the Amel Facebook page:

"Update on Amiable

SM Amiable was lost in Suvarov atoll.

In 40+ knots the anchor chain broke and they decided to go out of the atoll following the GPS track that brought them in. Unfortunately they were not able to counter the strong westerly current flowing across the pass and were swept on to the reef. The boat is total loss. The captain and crew survived without injury."

 

Bill 

BeBe 387


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Herbert Lackner
 


This summer we had water in the drive-oil (milky) so we hauled and changed the sealings.  We found out that there was a steel wearing ring and not the brass ring from Amel.  When the seals have been changed last haul-out only the sealings have been changed, according to the "professional" there is nothing else to do. Now I learned that the wearing ring should be changed always when the seals are changed, it is an inexpensive item from Amel (compared to an extra haul-out)

I uploaded some fotos to show how the (steel) wearing ring looks at end of life...

Th wearing ring is fixed to the shaft and the outer surface is next to the three seals.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1059967243

fair winds,

tadeja and herbert,
KALI MERA, SN 120, Kusadasi


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Transmission oil cooler

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Eric,

That is really cool, but could you give us a little more detail as to where you bought it...who the USA distributor is, etc.?

Bill
BeBe 387

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 6:35 AM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I was worried about the tranny oil cooler wearing out and perforating .
I did some research and Amel wanted $600 to replace it Mack boring wanted about the same. I found the USA distributor for the DC60 model transmission oil cooler it cost me $137- in the USA.
Eric
Sm 376 Kimberlite
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Friday, September 26, 2014 12:33 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Fwd: Onan Training Option
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> Derick,
>
> There are some photos of the transmission cooler and the
> trash/barnaclepieces I removed from it posted here:
>
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1228643648
>
> There is a rubber boot on each side of the cooler. With the sea
> cock closed
> and the sea chest empty (if possible use a wet vac to empty it)
> open the
> sea chest side of the cooler by loosening the clamp on the
> larger end of
> the boot. You will want to have your wet vac ready to suck the
> remainingwater when you pull the boot off of the cooler. The wet
> vac is the best
> thing I have found to clean the cooler and the boot area...just
> suck all of
> the trash out. There is no need to do the aft side of the cooler.
>
> There are pieces of trash that can get past the strainer, but
> are stopped
> by the small pipes in the cooler. This will happen to you in the
> tropicswhen small mussels and barnacles like to breed in the sea
> chest. If you are
> at a marina and running A/C weekly inspection of the sea chest
> is very
> important...maybe 2 times a week.
>
> The Mack Boring Diesel class I attended did not cover
> transmissions or its
> cooler. They had 5 different models of engines for the class. I
> was lucky
> that there was one 100hp turbo for the class and I was the only
> one out of
> 20 that had that engine. There were 4 or 5 guys working on each
> of the
> other engines. I do not think they got as much out of the class
> as I did.
>
> Bill
> BeBe 387
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 10:07 PM, derickgates@...
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Kent,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for researching this. I would prefer meeting during
> the summer,
> > when Brava will be on the hard in the Caribbean for hurricane
> season,> rather than during the winter/spring, when I would
> rather be sailing!
> > However, I will be flexible as the group decides.
> >
> >
> >
> > My email address is: derickgates "at" comcast "dot" net
> >
> >
> >
> > Brava has a 100 HP Yanmar Model 4JH3-HTE with ~3700 hours on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recen tly had the salt water cooling pump replaced because it
> was leaking
> > water from the seal. As you know, this is on the inaccessible
> side of the
> > engine, and I would love to see better what I did, as well as
> how to
> > efficiently replace the associated impeller.
> >
> >
> > I would also like to see how to dismantle the seawater cooling
> for the
> > transmission oil cooling.
> >
> >
> >
> > Add to that everything to do with the replacement of the oil
> filte r (on
> > the engine), changing the oil, and trouble shooting all
> electrical systems
> > on the engine (shut-off and starter solenoids, alternators, etc.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Derick
> >
> >
> >
> > SM2K #400 Brava
> >
> >
> >
>



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Derick,

The prop shaft seals will wear a groove in the wear bushing...that is the reason for its existence.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 5:09 PM, derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

OK, I feel really foolish asking this question, but I need to ask it.  What part of the bronze wearing-out bearing wears out? Does the wearing-out bearing rotate with the shaft, so that the outer surface next to the three seals wears, or is my assumption correct that the wearing-out bearing stays static relative to the seals and instead the propeller shaft rotates inside it, wearing out the inner surfaces of the bronze wearing-out bearing?  Other than water in the transmission oil, or loss of oil, how can you tell by inspection that the wearing-out bearing is worn out?

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Face Book

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Mark,

The Facebook page is owned by Dimitris Krasopoulos (Amel 54 Alma Libre Too) and is at:

Bill
BeBe 387

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Mark Erdos mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

What is the link to the Amel Community page on Face Book?

Mark
SM#275



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

yahoogroups@...
 

Pat,

Whoever you spoke to at Lofrans is wrong, very wrong.  Did you download the Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf.

Please read it and you will see that 10mm chain is made from 10mm (3/8") stock which is manufactured in what most people refer to as two different "pitches" (pitch is referring to the dimension of the link, not the stock). The DIN766 has links that are 2 mm different than the ISO4565 standard. DIN766 is 28mm long and ISO4565 is 30mm long. These chains will NOT work properly in the same Gypsy...different Gypsies are required for each.

I have found that most people do not get their heads around the difference between ISO4565 and DIN766, mostly because there is not a common and accepted way to explain the difference...let me try...

ISO4565 and DIN766 each are made with 10mm stock. The difference is that the size of the links are different. Now to really confuse you, if you compare any other size stock, like 8mm, or 12mm, the links are identical sizes with ISO4565 and DIN766.

Your 10mm chain needs a different Gypsy for ISO than DIN...but only if 10mm (3/8").

I really hope this solves your issue and helps you get what you need.

Bill
BeBe 387



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Propshaft wearing ring

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

OK, I feel really foolish asking this question, but I need to ask it.  What part of the bronze wearing-out bearing wears out? Does the wearing-out bearing rotate with the shaft, so that the outer surface next to the three seals wears, or is my assumption correct that the wearing-out bearing stays static relative to the seals and instead the propeller shaft rotates inside it, wearing out the inner surfaces of the bronze wearing-out bearing?  Other than water in the transmission oil, or loss of oil, how can you tell by inspection that the wearing-out bearing is worn out?

 

Derick

 

SM2K #400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Face Book

Nat Bossett
 

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:34:04AM -0400, Mark Erdos mcerdos@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] wrote:
What is the link to the Amel Community page on Face Book?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/amelyachtowners/


Face Book

Mark Erdos
 

What is the link to the Amel Community page on Face Book?

Mark
SM#275


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Kent,

You probably saw the boat that was holed  sitting next to the Chandlery at Peakes.  There  is an article in Offshore this month about Ivan and one mans loss, but it really doesn’t do justice to the damage done. Because of Ivan, about  90% of the roofs are new and very pretty. Also regarding chain, I upgraded to the Rocna as well and upgraded the chain to 3/8 HT. I changed the gypsy to accommodate to the longer link. I also added a portside anchor roller and moved my CQR there. Neither anchor is in the way and makes it possible to do a Bahamian moor. I would double check the strength of the swivel between the anchor and chain. Many swivels and shackles  that fit the chain have a lower MWL and breaking strength than the chain.  I also added two zincs on the exposed chain near the anchor. Loved the Bruce anchors in the Chesapeake. Just drop it, pay out 30’ and walk away. Sets every time because of the mud bottom . Not so good in coral, rocks.  Still carry he 33.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Stuck in Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 9:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

 

Thanks , Annsophie,

Darn, I guess that means I'll have to get a Facebook account.  I've been avoiding it up til now.

Kent


On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:59 AM, Ann-Sofie Svanberg kanalmamman@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You can read about it on the Amel Yachtowners page on Facebok

 

/Annsofie

SY Lady Annila SM232

Skickat från min iPad


25 sep 2014 kl. 15:25 skrev "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I heard a rumor about that boat Bill.  Was it a boat that's been represented on this site?  I'd sure like to know more about what happened.

 

Pat, that's exactly what I did before I bought my Rocna.  I had them send me a life size drawing of the anchor, made a mockup out of cardboard, and tried it out on the roller to confirm that it would fit.  The "roll bar" snugs up against the portside vertical rollers on my boat just when the throat comes up on the horizontal roller...very secure.

 

Kent

SM243

Kristy

 


From: "yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

 

 

Regarding the question about the anchor, there are at least 3 Super Maramu Bow rollers. I think that you should make a cardboard cutout of the anchor you want and see if it will fit. It may fit on your SM, but not fit on others.

 

There are two things that you should look at, and these two things will likely answer all of your chain questions. 

 

 

And download this file which is "Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf" Clicking on the following will automatically download the file:

 

I have seen 10mm chain measure 9mm+/- because the zinc is totally gone. Once the metal starts rusting I am sure that 10mm will get close to 8mm in some places.

 

I am sure that most of you know that a few months ago a Super Maramu was lost at a Pacific Atoll when his chain broke. It went on a reef and was a total loss. I do not know if the chain was defective, old, or possibly was cut by sharp coral. New chain is not that expensive when you consider what it does for you.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Thanks for sending gypsy photo. I always thought my chain looked small. My gypsy is stamped 3/8  DIN 766 . Just spoke to Lofran ,the 3/8 is very misleading, the DIN766 means its a 5/16 proof coil gypsy. Why they would  put 5/16 proof coil on a 53 ft. boat makes no sense to me , its rated at 1900 vs 5400 working load for 3/8 HT.  Thanks Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Thu, Sep 25, 2014 3:16 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Anchor and chain

 

Regarding the question about the anchor, there are at least 3 Super Maramu Bow rollers. I think that you should make a cardboard cutout of the anchor you want and see if it will fit. It may fit on your SM, but not fit on others.

There are two things that you should look at, and these two things will likely answer all of your chain questions. 


And download this file which is "Anchor Chain, Galvanized dimensions and calibration.pdf" Clicking on the following will automatically download the file:

I have seen 10mm chain measure 9mm+/- because the zinc is totally gone. Once the metal starts rusting I am sure that 10mm will get close to 8mm in some places.

< div>I am sure that most of you know that a few months ago a Super Maramu was lost at a Pacific Atoll when his chain broke. It went on a reef and was a total loss. I do not know if the chain was defective, old, or possibly was cut by sharp coral. New chain is not that expensive when you consider what it does for you.

Bill
BeBe 387