Date   

Re: Satellite communication - Fleetbroadband 150

webercardio@...
 

I changed to Inmarsat FleetBroadband Pre-Paid Small vessel Plan. So I activate my fleetbroadband 150 only  the weeks, when I am on the  boat. I charge  via internet , my provider is   GlobalTelesatCommunications  in England ( www.globaltelesat.co.uk ) but I also contaced a company in US.
I choose this company, because  you can  ad for a few money the REDPORT-Optimizer - very usefull to make a protection between SAT-phone and  computer . You will find more informations on web ....
I only pay once activation fee,  buy a voucher  for 60 days, use it , renew , prolong or loose it.
You may make your calculations with the rates  on the website.
So I use all my units until I leave the boat. The next weeks, there is no  charge. Activate via internet for
the next holiday works well, you  buy a new  voucher, no extra activation fee.
Fair winds Wolfgang Weber      SY ELISE  Amel 54 # 162  Marina di Ragusa/It

 

)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Ric,

The instructor suggested to place the heat exchanger in a suitable cleaning tray….

I should have said that also.

JPG




On 15 Jan 2015, at 19:31, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Brick cleaner is generally a 5% solution of Sulfuric acid. Easily bought in gallon jugs at any hardware store mixed at that rate. Not sure I would want to “run-in-thru my engine and dislodging scale, only to clog somewhere else.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

 

 

Hello Bill et al,

 

I just spent the day at Onan UK learning about the MDKAL.  Another Amel owner was there… he had done the organising for this course.

 

If one wishes to do the cleaning himself, the instructor said that well diluted “brick cleaner” would do the trick in 10 minutes.

 

Remove the heat exchanger and immerse the unit in the above solution.  Rinse well then reinstall the component.

 

Basta.

 

Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM007

 

 

On 15 Jan 2015, at 13:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

JP,

 

I brought the heat exchanger to an automotive radiator shop. They cleaned it for me.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:57 PM, galacsea2000 <no_reply@...> wrote:

 

Bill,
What kind of acid do you use to clean the onan heat exchanger ? What concentration? Thanks
JP  Amel54

 

 


Posted by: "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...>


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Posted by: Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Brick cleaner is generally a 5% solution of Sulfuric acid. Easily bought in gallon jugs at any hardware store mixed at that rate. Not sure I would want to “run-in-thru my engine and dislodging scale, only to clog somewhere else.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

 

 

Hello Bill et al,

 

I just spent the day at Onan UK learning about the MDKAL.  Another Amel owner was there… he had done the organising for this course.

 

If one wishes to do the cleaning himself, the instructor said that well diluted “brick cleaner” would do the trick in 10 minutes.

 

Remove the heat exchanger and immerse the unit in the above solution.  Rinse well then reinstall the component.

 

Basta.

 

Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM007

 

 

On 15 Jan 2015, at 13:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

JP,

 

I brought the heat exchanger to an automotive radiator shop. They cleaned it for me.

 

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:57 PM, galacsea2000 <no_reply@...> wrote:

 

Bill,
What kind of acid do you use to clean the onan heat exchanger ? What concentration? Thanks
JP  Amel54

 

 


Posted by: "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...>


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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Bill et al,

I just spent the day at Onan UK learning about the MDKAL.  Another Amel owner was there… he had done the organising for this course.

If one wishes to do the cleaning himself, the instructor said that well diluted “brick cleaner” would do the trick in 10 minutes.

Remove the heat exchanger and immerse the unit in the above solution.  Rinse well then reinstall the component.

Basta.

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007


On 15 Jan 2015, at 13:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

JP,

I brought the heat exchanger to an automotive radiator shop. They cleaned it for me.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:57 PM, galacsea2000 <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
What kind of acid do you use to clean the onan heat exchanger ? What concentration? Thanks
JP  Amel54




Posted by: "Bill & Judy Rouse" <yahoogroups@...>
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel repairs, St Raphael

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi John very sorry to hear about your health conditions. Not sure what we can do to support you in your efforts to sell your boat but will do everything we can. You're 
taking the boat to France make sure whoever is listing it will allow cobrokerage. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jan 15, 2015, at 07:07, 'Anne and John Hollamby ' annejohnholl@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 
Hello Annesophie,
I seem to remember that you had works done at a marina in this place. Can you please confirm and if so give me more info because I am thinking that Malta is a bad place for selling Amels and I am thinking of having the boat moved up to France by a passage crew as I have terminal cancer.
 
                           Thankyou,   Anne and John,  Bali Hai,  SM 319,  for sale in Malta


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel repairs, St Raphael

karkauai
 

Oh John, I am so sorry to hear about your health issue.  I know you will make the best of the time you have.  Know I (we) are all wishing the very best for you both. Let us know how you are doing. Take care my friend!
Kent


On Jan 15, 2015, at 7:07 AM, 'Anne and John Hollamby ' annejohnholl@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 
Hello Annesophie,
I seem to remember that you had works done at a marina in this place. Can you please confirm and if so give me more info because I am thinking that Malta is a bad place for selling Amels and I am thinking of having the boat moved up to France by a passage crew as I have terminal cancer.
 
                           Thankyou,   Anne and John,  Bali Hai,  SM 319,  for sale in Malta


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water flow problem - Onan Generator

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

JP,

I brought the heat exchanger to an automotive radiator shop. They cleaned it for me.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:57 PM, galacsea2000 <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
What kind of acid do you use to clean the onan heat exchanger ? What concentration? Thanks
JP  Amel54



Amel repairs, St Raphael

Anne and John Hollamby <annejohnholl@...>
 

 
Hello Annesophie,
I seem to remember that you had works done at a marina in this place. Can you please confirm and if so give me more info because I am thinking that Malta is a bad place for selling Amels and I am thinking of having the boat moved up to France by a passage crew as I have terminal cancer.
 
                           Thankyou,   Anne and John,  Bali Hai,  SM 319,  for sale in Malta


Satellite communication - Fleetbroadband 150

kanalmamman@...
 

We have an Inmarsat Fleetbroadband 150 satellite system for phone calls and internet connection.
The Small Vessel Plan we have is 112 USD a month including 5Mb of datatraffic, if we need moore it is 21,96 USD a Mb.
Phone calls to any land number in the world 0,70 USD/min and to mobile devices 0.97 USD/min. (related to a mobile phone rate this is very good)

My question is, if you have a Fleetbroadband 150, what kind of plan do you have? Which provider?


/ Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM #232




Re: Water flow problem - Onan Generator

galacsea2000 <no_reply@...>
 

Bill,
What kind of acid do you use to clean the onan heat exchanger ? What concentration? Thanks
JP  Amel54


Alakaluff in Langkawi Regatta

Dave_Benjamin
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Water flow problem - Onan Generator

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Dave,

I ordered them from the Cummins Onan dealer in Houston. Email contact is thomas.n.moore"at"cummins.com

If you are ordering, order 2. This could be sent US Mail to St. Thomas. Ask Thomas if he will send USPS.

We will see you in 2016. Crossing the Atlantic with the Atlantic Odyssey Jan 2016.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Jan 13, 2015 7:20 AM, "drdavegoodman@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bill

Where do you get your end caps for the onan heat exchanger?
Thanks
Dave
s/v Bel Ami
St. Thomas


Re: Water flow problem - Onan Generator

drdavegoodman
 

Hi Bill
Where do you get your end caps for the onan heat exchanger?
Thanks
Dave
s/v Bel Ami
St. Thomas


Selling Underwater Camera Kit - Never Used!

blowinahoudy <no_reply@...>
 

Hi there.  I am selling an Intova IC600 underwater camera kit with an entire variety of accessories.  I bought in July 2010 per a friend's recommendation when we were sailing around the world on our Amel but for logistical reasons it never made it to the boat.  So has never been used.  Listed on Ebay if you are interested.  I thought someone on this board might be interested in it.  Thank you. Joseph R. Metz


Intova IC-600 Waterproof Digital Dive Photography Camera Bundle (never used)?



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

karkauai
 

You are my new favorite boat guru, Olivier.  Thanks for being patient and taking the time to massage my brain.I think I get it now!KentSM 243Kristy

From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

  Kent,
your prop and transmission are protected by the zincs on the rudder, only as long as they are connected. When measuring the resistance (ohms) between the prop and the rudder zincs, you should not find more than 10 ohms. If you find more, the connection is bad (damaged wire somewhere in the vessel), if you find much more, this means there is no more connection.If you can't find where the wire is damaged/cut, you should just install a new one, going from the engine cradle to the rudder shaft quadrant. And then check that every item that is supposed to be bonded, is really bonded (check the resistance again).In the engine room, you should also find a big connection between the cradle and the C-drive (otherwise, as the C-drive is mounted on rubber mounts, it may be isolated from the cradle).I guess you already know that the ballast must be connected too (thanks to the famous copper strap down in the bilge).
Good luck.

On Monday, January 12, 2015 7:12 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Merci plus, Olivier!  I guess I'll try looking for my problem while I'm STILL waiting for my Cdrive to come back.  Is there any concern to the fact that the damage was to the prop zinc and prop shaft and that the rudder zincs were still intact?Sorry for the continued barrage of questions, I guess I'm pretty insecure about anything electrical.KentSM243Kristy


From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

  Hi Kent,
no need for a wire in the water as, you mentioned it, the bonding circuit is already in contact with water.However, in case of a power leak coming from the boat itself, you could perform the same tests with the vessel on the hard...The main question is: is there any connection between the ground circuit (yellow and green wires) and any negative or positive (12V or 24V)?
Have a good day.



On Monday, January 12, 2015 1:30 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Thanks Olivier and Eric!  I knew you guys would clarify this for us.  One question...do we need to have a conductor in the water?  Seems all the things I have read say to connect the battery bank to a wire that goes over the side?  I guess that's the same as  connecting to the bonding system (as long as you know the bonding system is intact)?Two different methods altogether?My brain still hurts.KentSM243Kristy
On Jan 12, 2015, at 7:14 AM, Patrick McAneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Olivier,Eric,  Thanks for your detailed response. I have been plugged into shore power one day,so that's not my problem. I do not know what my zincs were made from. I bought new ones in St.Martin they probably weigh 3 lbs they are Martyr CMR -5. I will replace them this morning, perhaps I had poor zincs, I hope. I will try to follow Oliviers advise to determine if I have a leak. Eric we were in St. Martins almost 3 weeks ,stopped by your boat a few times, but you were not down yet, or maybe you were just hiding down below, people seem to do that as I come up to their boats. Thanks Again, Pat
On Jan 12, 2015, at 4:52 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Good morning Pat and every happy reader,
the informations in the previous message (from Eric) are very good and cover most of the problem.I would add the following:-sacrificial anodes that quickly go are most probably subject to an unusual power leak but first question: were Pat's anodes made out of zinc? In fresh waters, metal boats use magnesium anodes, because fresh water is less conductive and magnesium is more sensitive (than zinc).In salt water, magnesium will disappear very quickly.First conclusion: Pat, you should replace your anodes quickly with zinc anodes. how do you know it is zinc? Zinc is approximately 4 times heavier than magnesium. The discs (2) you have on your rudder should weigh around 1.4 kg (3 pounds) each.-electric leaks often come from the board circuits: a new Equipment (not original) where negative is connected to the device body (Inside, you don't see it): check the conductivity (meter on the ohm position) between negative and body. Your Wind generator could be like that.This can also be a faulty connection: a loose wire of a navigation light touching the guardrail or mast.This can even be carbon brush dust creating a connection between a furler motor and the mast.
The method to search for a possible leak is:-is there any voltage between +24V and ground, -24V and ground, +12V and ground, -12V and ground. Do this test in the engine room as you have there all the power sources available and connect one side of your meter on the engine's steel cradle. If you find a voltage, you should confirm using a small bulb (1 watt). If the light shows, it tells you on which circuit is the leak.For instance if you find a voltage between the ground (engine's cradle) and the 24V negative, this means there is 24V positive connected to the ground. Then check every 24V item with breaker ON and then OFF.
This search is a very long job, but should start with everything new on board, or every recent job performed.But remember the leak could come from usual wear.
The last Super Maramus and all AMEL vessels built since, have been equipped with a leak test device. However, this concerns only the +24V and -24V.
The leaks coming through shared earth ground circuits (in marinas) are more and more frequent: don't keep you shore power cable connected when you're away from the boat. Even if you turn off the breaker on the power supply (on dock), your ground cable is still connected: REMOVE THE CABLE from the shore outlet.
One last thing: when one of my clients asks me, I advise to have these checks performed by a skilled electrician...
Good luck.



On Monday, January 12, 2015 7:14 AM, "sailormon kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Whenever different metals are placed in a conductive liquid you create a battery. If you connect these pieces of metal together, current will flow. The current will be removing metal from one of the metal pieces = "electrolysis". If this piece is the zinc in your flashlight battery that is good, but if one of the pieces is your propeller it is bad.The zincs you use on a boat are called "Sacrificial Anodes". Zinc is used because it has a higher voltage in the water so the current will be more inclined to flow from it than from your propeller. To complete the electrical circuit, the zincs must be connected to the items they are intended to protect. Usually this is no problem because the zinc is bolted right to the shaft or underwater housing. Non metal boats will usually have a copper bonding wire inside that connects all the underwater metal items together so they all share the protection from zinc anodes. Since engines use the metal frame as the negative battery connection and the engine is connected to the prop shaft, the engine and the negative side of your 12 volt system are also part of this bonding connection. This bonding wire is usually connected somewhere to the rigging. This is not for electrolysis protection but for some protection from lightning strikes to conduct it into the water through the items connected together.If other currents are allowed to get into this bonding circuit they can easily overpower the small voltage available from your zincs and defeat the protection you need. This is usually the most destructive form of electrolysis and you notice it because your zincs get eaten up very quickly trying to keep up. Under normal circumstances, zincs should last at least a year if they are working normally, and much longer if you don't have any problems. If they are being "sacrificed" in a shorter period you need to find where the external current is getting in.The most common source of this external current is the shore power connection, especially the ground lead. Docks are notorious for bad wiring and often the ground lead is not connected to ground, is connected to the neutral, is being used for carrying current to a mis-wired boat, and all other sorts of problems. So the ground lead should never be directly connected to the ground bonding system we talked about earlier. The purpose of the shore power ground lead is to provide a return path for current if there is a short circuit or power leakage from an appliance or the wiring on the boat. You don't want it to connect all the underwater items on your boat to the underwater items on all the other boats and the dock because now your zinc is trying to protect everyone else too.Unfortunately it is not always possible to keep the circuits separate due to interconnections such as shore power chargers. There are a number of ways to separate the shore power ground from the boat's underwater bonding system. The preferable and safest way is to use a galvanic isolator to introduce a 1.2 volt insulator in the circuit. This is enough to isolate most galvanic voltages but it will still conduct electrical faults and keep the boat safe in the event of a ground fault in the wiring or in an appliance. The galvanic isolator must be rated for the size of your shore power circuit.    From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:34 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs    Hi, Pat,I havent' done it yet, but apparently there's a way you can do this yourself.  With all the different electrical components it can be pretty complicated.  I've been doing some internet research and I'm more confused than ever about exactly how to go about it.  I know someone posted a message with a general description of what you're supposed to do, but now I can't find it.  Your DC systems are likely the cause, either the 24 or 12 V systems...one "expert" says it's the engine/alternators the vast majority of the time.  Some say AC can cause it if there's a bad connection that acts like a diode and converts your AC to DC.  Waaaay out of my comfort level!  I read Nigel Calder's book on boat maintenance early on and I know there's a description of the process there.  SeaBis makes a unit you can buy or rent that is designed just for this problem.  Here are a couple of blurbs about Electrolysis:  Corrosion - Boats and Yachts Maintenance and Troubleshootinghttp://www.mysailing.com.au/news/stray-current-electrolysisSeaBis Corrosion cause eliminated, permanently. 5 year guarantee.  I've been putting this off til I get Kristy back in the water.  When I do, I'm going to hire an good electrician to help me find the problem.  I'm sure the experts on the site here will be able to help you more than I can.  Let us know what you do and what you find.  I'll do the same.  KentSM243Kristy   From: "sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs    Kristy, How would one determine if he had a current leak and how would one determine the source of the electric and its path into the water? Other than installing solar panels and a wind generator I have not added or changed anything electrically. Thanks, Pat  








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Fresh water Pump AMFA 66B / Reya A66B

yahoogroups@...
 

I know that some of you have replaced the original AMFA 66B fresh water pump.


Do any of you have a repair kit for the AMFA 66B that you want to sell?


Please contact me at svbebe "at" gmail dot com


Bill

Bebe #387

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

Beaute Olivier
 

Kent,

your prop and transmission are protected by the zincs on the rudder, only as long as they are connected. When measuring the resistance (ohms) between the prop and the rudder zincs, you should not find more than 10 ohms. If you find more, the connection is bad (damaged wire somewhere in the vessel), if you find much more, this means there is no more connection.
If you can't find where the wire is damaged/cut, you should just install a new one, going from the engine cradle to the rudder shaft quadrant. And then check that every item that is supposed to be bonded, is really bonded (check the resistance again).
In the engine room, you should also find a big connection between the cradle and the C-drive (otherwise, as the C-drive is mounted on rubber mounts, it may be isolated from the cradle).
I guess you already know that the ballast must be connected too (thanks to the famous copper strap down in the bilge).

Good luck.


On Monday, January 12, 2015 7:12 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Merci plus, Olivier!  I guess I'll try looking for my problem while I'm STILL waiting for my Cdrive to come back.  Is there any concern to the fact that the damage was to the prop zinc and prop shaft and that the rudder zincs were still intact?
Sorry for the continued barrage of questions, I guess I'm pretty insecure about anything electrical.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

 
Hi Kent,

no need for a wire in the water as, you mentioned it, the bonding circuit is already in contact with water.
However, in case of a power leak coming from the boat itself, you could perform the same tests with the vessel on the hard...
The main question is: is there any connection between the ground circuit (yellow and green wires) and any negative or positive (12V or 24V)?

Have a good day.




On Monday, January 12, 2015 1:30 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Thanks Olivier and Eric!  I knew you guys would clarify this for us.  One question...do we need to have a conductor in the water?  Seems all the things I have read say to connect the battery bank to a wire that goes over the side?  I guess that's the same as  connecting to the bonding system (as long as you know the bonding system is intact)?
Two different methods altogether?
My brain still hurts.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jan 12, 2015, at 7:14 AM, Patrick McAneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Olivier,Eric,  Thanks for your detailed response. I have been plugged into shore power one day,so that's not my problem. I do not know what my zincs were made from. I bought new ones in St.Martin they probably weigh 3 lbs they are Martyr CMR -5. I will replace them this morning, perhaps I had poor zincs, I hope. I will try to follow Oliviers advise to determine if I have a leak. Eric we were in St. Martins almost 3 weeks ,stopped by your boat a few times, but you were not down yet, or maybe you were just hiding down below, people seem to do that as I come up to their boats. Thanks Again, Pat


On Jan 12, 2015, at 4:52 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Good morning Pat and every happy reader,

the informations in the previous message (from Eric) are very good and cover most of the problem.
I would add the following:
-sacrificial anodes that quickly go are most probably subject to an unusual power leak but first question: were Pat's anodes made out of zinc? In fresh waters, metal boats use magnesium anodes, because fresh water is less conductive and magnesium is more sensitive (than zinc).
In salt water, magnesium will disappear very quickly.
First conclusion: Pat, you should replace your anodes quickly with zinc anodes. how do you know it is zinc? Zinc is approximately 4 times heavier than magnesium. The discs (2) you have on your rudder should weigh around 1.4 kg (3 pounds) each.
-electric leaks often come from the board circuits: a new Equipment (not original) where negative is connected to the device body (Inside, you don't see it): check the conductivity (meter on the ohm position) between negative and body. Your Wind generator could be like that.
This can also be a faulty connection: a loose wire of a navigation light touching the guardrail or mast.
This can even be carbon brush dust creating a connection between a furler motor and the mast.

The method to search for a possible leak is:
-is there any voltage between +24V and ground, -24V and ground, +12V and ground, -12V and ground. Do this test in the engine room as you have there all the power sources available and connect one side of your meter on the engine's steel cradle. If you find a voltage, you should confirm using a small bulb (1 watt). If the light shows, it tells you on which circuit is the leak.
For instance if you find a voltage between the ground (engine's cradle) and the 24V negative, this means there is 24V positive connected to the ground. Then check every 24V item with breaker ON and then OFF.

This search is a very long job, but should start with everything new on board, or every recent job performed.
But remember the leak could come from usual wear.

The last Super Maramus and all AMEL vessels built since, have been equipped with a leak test device. However, this concerns only the +24V and -24V.

The leaks coming through shared earth ground circuits (in marinas) are more and more frequent: don't keep you shore power cable connected when you're away from the boat. Even if you turn off the breaker on the power supply (on dock), your ground cable is still connected: REMOVE THE CABLE from the shore outlet.

One last thing: when one of my clients asks me, I advise to have these checks performed by a skilled electrician...

Good luck.




On Monday, January 12, 2015 7:14 AM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Whenever different metals are placed in a conductive liquid you create a battery. If you connect these pieces of metal together, current will flow. The current will be removing metal from one of the metal pieces = "electrolysis". If this piece is the zinc in your flashlight battery that is good, but if one of the pieces is your propeller it is bad.
The zincs you use on a boat are called "Sacrificial Anodes". Zinc is used because it has a higher voltage in the water so the current will be more inclined to flow from it than from your propeller. To complete the electrical circuit, the zincs must be connected to the items they are intended to protect. Usually this is no problem because the zinc is bolted right to the shaft or underwater housing. Non metal boats will usually have a copper bonding wire inside that connects all the underwater metal items together so they all share the protection from zinc anodes. Since engines use the metal frame as the negative battery connection and the engine is connected to the prop shaft, the engine and the negative side of your 12 volt system are also part of this bonding connection. This bonding wire is usually connected somewhere to the rigging. This is not for electrolysis protection but for some protection from lightning strikes to conduct it into the water through the items connected together.
If other currents are allowed to get into this bonding circuit they can easily overpower the small voltage available from your zincs and defeat the protection you need. This is usually the most destructive form of electrolysis and you notice it because your zincs get eaten up very quickly trying to keep up. Under normal circumstances, zincs should last at least a year if they are working normally, and much longer if you don't have any problems. If they are being "sacrificed" in a shorter period you need to find where the external current is getting in.
The most common source of this external current is the shore power connection, especially the ground lead. Docks are notorious for bad wiring and often the ground lead is not connected to ground, is connected to the neutral, is being used for carrying current to a mis-wired boat, and all other sorts of problems. So the ground lead should never be directly connected to the ground bonding system we talked about earlier. The purpose of the shore power ground lead is to provide a return path for current if there is a short circuit or power leakage from an appliance or the wiring on the boat. You don't want it to connect all the underwater items on your boat to the underwater items on all the other boats and the dock because now your zinc is trying to protect everyone else too.
Unfortunately it is not always possible to keep the circuits separate due to interconnections such as shore power chargers. There are a number of ways to separate the shore power ground from the boat's underwater bonding system. The preferable and safest way is to use a galvanic isolator to introduce a 1.2 volt insulator in the circuit. This is enough to isolate most galvanic voltages but it will still conduct electrical faults and keep the boat safe in the event of a ground fault in the wiring or in an appliance. The galvanic isolator must be rated for the size of your shore power circuit.
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:34 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs
 
 
Hi, Pat,
I havent' done it yet, but apparently there's a way you can do this yourself.  With all the different electrical components it can be pretty complicated.  I've been doing some internet research and I'm more confused than ever about exactly how to go about it.  I know someone posted a message with a general description of what you're supposed to do, but now I can't find it.  Your DC systems are likely the cause, either the 24 or 12 V systems...one "expert" says it's the engine/alternators the vast majority of the time.  Some say AC can cause it if there's a bad connection that acts like a diode and converts your AC to DC.  Waaaay out of my comfort level!
 
I read Nigel Calder's book on boat maintenance early on and I know there's a description of the process there.
 
SeaBis makes a unit you can buy or rent that is designed just for this problem.
 
Here are a couple of blurbs about Electrolysis:
 
 
I've been putting this off til I get Kristy back in the water.  When I do, I'm going to hire an good electrician to help me find the problem.
 
I'm sure the experts on the site here will be able to help you more than I can.
 
Let us know what you do and what you find.  I'll do the same.
 
Kent
SM243
Kristy
 
 

From: "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs
 
 
Kristy, How would one determine if he had a current leak and how would one determine the source of the electric and its path into the water? Other than installing solar panels and a wind generator I have not added or changed anything electrically. Thanks, Pat
 









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

Hajo Hille
 

Hi Kent,
thank you for your supplement.
I will inform the forum when I´m back on the boat in April.
Hajo
SM 150
Serafine
 
Gesendet: Montag, 12. Januar 2015 um 19:17 Uhr
Von: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
An: "amelyachtowners@..."
Cc: "Hajo Hille"
Betreff: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator
 

 

Let me add one other possibility...I had a tiny leak from the connection from the input hose to the water pump.  Just a few drops a day.  When the Onan was started, the suction pulled air into the pump and destroyed the impeller. The first time I replaced the impeller, it burned up within a few minutes of starting the Onan again.  I found a small slit in the hose where it attaches that must have been acting as a one way valve.  When I cut that portion of hose off and reconnected, the problem was fixed.
 
Let us know what you find.
Kent
SM243
Kristy
 

 

From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Cc: Hajo Hille
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:22 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator
 
 
 
Hajo,
 
The Onan sea water pump is easy to remove...1 bolt and nut on the bottom and 1 nut on the top. I carry a spare water pump and change out the entire pump when it is time to change the impeller. I change the impeller every 300 hours. It is much easier to change before it begins to lose impeller blades.
 
Possible causes of the lack of water flow In the Onan Generator, listed in the order of most probable first:
  1. It is possible that there is no blockage and the water flow sensor is malfunctioning...remove the sensor from the output hose on the sea water pump and clean or replace it.
  2. Water not flowing to the pump from the sea chest. CHECK PROCEDURE: Close sea chest main valve. Remove input hose to water pump. Open valve on sea chest. Lower the end of the open hose and water should flow...if not, the hose is blocked somewhere. Start at the sea chest by removing the hose clamps and the hose that goes to the Onan. You will probably need to heat the hose to remove it. Hot water or hot air blower or hair dryer will work. Remove the Onan sea water hose attached to the sea chest. Use an electric wet vacuum to suck everything out of the hose from both ends. Check the wet vac to see what you have removed. If no blockage was removed go to the next step.
  3. The impeller may be spinning on the impeller shaft because the key is worn or missing, or pieces of impeller blades are blocking the output of water. CHECK PROCEDURE: Close the main valve at the sea chest. Remove the water pump. Open the plate to inspect the impeller. Locate the key slot. Is the impeller key slot lined up with the key as it should be? Turn the shaft with a wrench and observe whether the impeller is slipping on the shaft. Note the impeller may possibly only be slipping at high speed...check very closely for slipping. Check closely the path of the water through the pump. Impeller blades may be blocking the path. If no blockage was removed go to the next step.
  4. The heat exchanger may be blocked. NOTE: There are 2 end caps on the heat exchanger. These are made of metal and have a rubber gasket and rubber O ring and bolt. The metal is delicate and will possibly crack or break when removed. I always have 2 each new end caps on BeBe. Before you try to remove the end caps, try to get new replacements. If it is not possible to get two stainless steel washers the size of the end caps. These will probably work as a temporary cap. CHECK PROCEDURE: Turn off valve at the sea chest. Remove both end caps, using a wet vacuum to collect any water that escapes when the caps are removed, then use the wet vacuum on both ends to suck any debris that is inside the heat exchanger. Check the wet vac to see what you have removed.  If no blockage was removed go to the next step.
  5. There is blockage somewhere else. You will have to check each portion of the hoses connected to the sea water side of the cooling system.
Replacing/remounting the sea water pump may require you to twist the pump slightly to the right or the left for the shaft to line up. Examine how the shaft lines up and fits when you remove it. You will see what I am talking about.
 
I hope this helps you.
 
Bill
BeBe #387
 
 
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Hajo Hille <Hajo.Hille@...> wrote:
Dear Bill,
 
thank you very much for your confidence.
 
To use the favourable opportunity having contact to you, the very experienced expert regarding the problems with our Supermaramus, I want to know what´s your reading of my problem with the  Onan - generator.
 
Well, just after I changed the impeller of the saltwater pump, what is a problem for itself regarding  the position it is intalled, there was no waterflow, in and out.
The cooling of the Volvo worked well.
 
What seems to be the trouble? Is the waterpump - still working till now - broken? Is it possible to unhinge or destroy the impeller-shaft while changing the impeller ? Or will cause some air in the waterhoses the problem ?
 
Furthermore I have to mention that the zinc of the cooler is broken while I checked it, and the end piece has vanished in the cooler. Maybe this part will stop the waterflow ?
 
I will be deeply grateful for your advice or thoughts.
 
Warm regards Hajo
SV Serafine
 
 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

karkauai
 

Let me add one other possibility...I had a tiny leak from the connection from the input hose to the water pump.  Just a few drops a day.  When the Onan was started, the suction pulled air into the pump and destroyed the impeller. The first time I replaced the impeller, it burned up within a few minutes of starting the Onan again.  I found a small slit in the hose where it attaches that must have been acting as a one way valve.  When I cut that portion of hose off and reconnected, the problem was fixed.

Let us know what you find.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Cc: Hajo Hille
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:22 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water flow problem - Onan Generator

 
Hajo,

The Onan sea water pump is easy to remove...1 bolt and nut on the bottom and 1 nut on the top. I carry a spare water pump and change out the entire pump when it is time to change the impeller. I change the impeller every 300 hours. It is much easier to change before it begins to lose impeller blades.

Possible causes of the lack of water flow In the Onan Generator, listed in the order of most probable first:
  1. It is possible that there is no blockage and the water flow sensor is malfunctioning...remove the sensor from the output hose on the sea water pump and clean or replace it.
  2. Water not flowing to the pump from the sea chest. CHECK PROCEDURE: Close sea chest main valve. Remove input hose to water pump. Open valve on sea chest. Lower the end of the open hose and water should flow...if not, the hose is blocked somewhere. Start at the sea chest by removing the hose clamps and the hose that goes to the Onan. You will probably need to heat the hose to remove it. Hot water or hot air blower or hair dryer will work. Remove the Onan sea water hose attached to the sea chest. Use an electric wet vacuum to suck everything out of the hose from both ends. Check the wet vac to see what you have removed. If no blockage was removed go to the next step.
  3. The impeller may be spinning on the impeller shaft because the key is worn or missing, or pieces of impeller blades are blocking the output of water. CHECK PROCEDURE: Close the main valve at the sea chest. Remove the water pump. Open the plate to inspect the impeller. Locate the key slot. Is the impeller key slot lined up with the key as it should be? Turn the shaft with a wrench and observe whether the impeller is slipping on the shaft. Note the impeller may possibly only be slipping at high speed...check very closely for slipping. Check closely the path of the water through the pump. Impeller blades may be blocking the path. If no blockage was removed go to the next step.
  4. The heat exchanger may be blocked. NOTE: There are 2 end caps on the heat exchanger. These are made of metal and have a rubber gasket and rubber O ring and bolt. The metal is delicate and will possibly crack or break when removed. I always have 2 each new end caps on BeBe. Before you try to remove the end caps, try to get new replacements. If it is not possible to get two stainless steel washers the size of the end caps. These will probably work as a temporary cap. CHECK PROCEDURE: Turn off valve at the sea chest. Remove both end caps, using a wet vacuum to collect any water that escapes when the caps are removed, then use the wet vacuum on both ends to suck any debris that is inside the heat exchanger. Check the wet vac to see what you have removed.  If no blockage was removed go to the next step.
  5. There is blockage somewhere else. You will have to check each portion of the hoses connected to the sea water side of the cooling system.
Replacing/remounting the sea water pump may require you to twist the pump slightly to the right or the left for the shaft to line up. Examine how the shaft lines up and fits when you remove it. You will see what I am talking about.

I hope this helps you.

Bill
BeBe #387


On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Hajo Hille <Hajo.Hille@...> wrote:
Dear Bill,
 
thank you very much for your confidence.
 
To use the favourable opportunity having contact to you, the very experienced expert regarding the problems with our Supermaramus, I want to know what´s your reading of my problem with the  Onan - generator.
 
Well, just after I changed the impeller of the saltwater pump, what is a problem for itself regarding  the position it is intalled, there was no waterflow, in and out.
The cooling of the Volvo worked well.
 
What seems to be the trouble? Is the waterpump - still working till now - broken? Is it possible to unhinge or destroy the impeller-shaft while changing the impeller ? Or will cause some air in the waterhoses the problem ?
 
Furthermore I have to mention that the zinc of the cooler is broken while I checked it, and the end piece has vanished in the cooler. Maybe this part will stop the waterflow ?
 
I will be deeply grateful for your advice or thoughts.
 
Warm regards Hajo
SV Serafine
 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

karkauai
 

Merci plus, Olivier!  I guess I'll try looking for my problem while I'm STILL waiting for my Cdrive to come back.  Is there any concern to the fact that the damage was to the prop zinc and prop shaft and that the rudder zincs were still intact?
Sorry for the continued barrage of questions, I guess I'm pretty insecure about anything electrical.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs

 
Hi Kent,

no need for a wire in the water as, you mentioned it, the bonding circuit is already in contact with water.
However, in case of a power leak coming from the boat itself, you could perform the same tests with the vessel on the hard...
The main question is: is there any connection between the ground circuit (yellow and green wires) and any negative or positive (12V or 24V)?

Have a good day.




On Monday, January 12, 2015 1:30 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"


 
Thanks Olivier and Eric!  I knew you guys would clarify this for us.  One question...do we need to have a conductor in the water?  Seems all the things I have read say to connect the battery bank to a wire that goes over the side?  I guess that's the same as  connecting to the bonding system (as long as you know the bonding system is intact)?
Two different methods altogether?
My brain still hurts.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jan 12, 2015, at 7:14 AM, Patrick McAneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Olivier,Eric,  Thanks for your detailed response. I have been plugged into shore power one day,so that's not my problem. I do not know what my zincs were made from. I bought new ones in St.Martin they probably weigh 3 lbs they are Martyr CMR -5. I will replace them this morning, perhaps I had poor zincs, I hope. I will try to follow Oliviers advise to determine if I have a leak. Eric we were in St. Martins almost 3 weeks ,stopped by your boat a few times, but you were not down yet, or maybe you were just hiding down below, people seem to do that as I come up to their boats. Thanks Again, Pat


On Jan 12, 2015, at 4:52 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Good morning Pat and every happy reader,

the informations in the previous message (from Eric) are very good and cover most of the problem.
I would add the following:
-sacrificial anodes that quickly go are most probably subject to an unusual power leak but first question: were Pat's anodes made out of zinc? In fresh waters, metal boats use magnesium anodes, because fresh water is less conductive and magnesium is more sensitive (than zinc).
In salt water, magnesium will disappear very quickly.
First conclusion: Pat, you should replace your anodes quickly with zinc anodes. how do you know it is zinc? Zinc is approximately 4 times heavier than magnesium. The discs (2) you have on your rudder should weigh around 1.4 kg (3 pounds) each.
-electric leaks often come from the board circuits: a new Equipment (not original) where negative is connected to the device body (Inside, you don't see it): check the conductivity (meter on the ohm position) between negative and body. Your Wind generator could be like that.
This can also be a faulty connection: a loose wire of a navigation light touching the guardrail or mast.
This can even be carbon brush dust creating a connection between a furler motor and the mast.

The method to search for a possible leak is:
-is there any voltage between +24V and ground, -24V and ground, +12V and ground, -12V and ground. Do this test in the engine room as you have there all the power sources available and connect one side of your meter on the engine's steel cradle. If you find a voltage, you should confirm using a small bulb (1 watt). If the light shows, it tells you on which circuit is the leak.
For instance if you find a voltage between the ground (engine's cradle) and the 24V negative, this means there is 24V positive connected to the ground. Then check every 24V item with breaker ON and then OFF.

This search is a very long job, but should start with everything new on board, or every recent job performed.
But remember the leak could come from usual wear.

The last Super Maramus and all AMEL vessels built since, have been equipped with a leak test device. However, this concerns only the +24V and -24V.

The leaks coming through shared earth ground circuits (in marinas) are more and more frequent: don't keep you shore power cable connected when you're away from the boat. Even if you turn off the breaker on the power supply (on dock), your ground cable is still connected: REMOVE THE CABLE from the shore outlet.

One last thing: when one of my clients asks me, I advise to have these checks performed by a skilled electrician...

Good luck.




On Monday, January 12, 2015 7:14 AM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Whenever different metals are placed in a conductive liquid you create a battery. If you connect these pieces of metal together, current will flow. The current will be removing metal from one of the metal pieces = "electrolysis". If this piece is the zinc in your flashlight battery that is good, but if one of the pieces is your propeller it is bad.
The zincs you use on a boat are called "Sacrificial Anodes". Zinc is used because it has a higher voltage in the water so the current will be more inclined to flow from it than from your propeller. To complete the electrical circuit, the zincs must be connected to the items they are intended to protect. Usually this is no problem because the zinc is bolted right to the shaft or underwater housing. Non metal boats will usually have a copper bonding wire inside that connects all the underwater metal items together so they all share the protection from zinc anodes. Since engines use the metal frame as the negative battery connection and the engine is connected to the prop shaft, the engine and the negative side of your 12 volt system are also part of this bonding connection. This bonding wire is usually connected somewhere to the rigging. This is not for electrolysis protection but for some protection from lightning strikes to conduct it into the water through the items connected together.
If other currents are allowed to get into this bonding circuit they can easily overpower the small voltage available from your zincs and defeat the protection you need. This is usually the most destructive form of electrolysis and you notice it because your zincs get eaten up very quickly trying to keep up. Under normal circumstances, zincs should last at least a year if they are working normally, and much longer if you don't have any problems. If they are being "sacrificed" in a shorter period you need to find where the external current is getting in.
The most common source of this external current is the shore power connection, especially the ground lead. Docks are notorious for bad wiring and often the ground lead is not connected to ground, is connected to the neutral, is being used for carrying current to a mis-wired boat, and all other sorts of problems. So the ground lead should never be directly connected to the ground bonding system we talked about earlier. The purpose of the shore power ground lead is to provide a return path for current if there is a short circuit or power leakage from an appliance or the wiring on the boat. You don't want it to connect all the underwater items on your boat to the underwater items on all the other boats and the dock because now your zinc is trying to protect everyone else too.
Unfortunately it is not always possible to keep the circuits separate due to interconnections such as shore power chargers. There are a number of ways to separate the shore power ground from the boat's underwater bonding system. The preferable and safest way is to use a galvanic isolator to introduce a 1.2 volt insulator in the circuit. This is enough to isolate most galvanic voltages but it will still conduct electrical faults and keep the boat safe in the event of a ground fault in the wiring or in an appliance. The galvanic isolator must be rated for the size of your shore power circuit.
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:34 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs
 
 
Hi, Pat,
I havent' done it yet, but apparently there's a way you can do this yourself.  With all the different electrical components it can be pretty complicated.  I've been doing some internet research and I'm more confused than ever about exactly how to go about it.  I know someone posted a message with a general description of what you're supposed to do, but now I can't find it.  Your DC systems are likely the cause, either the 24 or 12 V systems...one "expert" says it's the engine/alternators the vast majority of the time.  Some say AC can cause it if there's a bad connection that acts like a diode and converts your AC to DC.  Waaaay out of my comfort level!
 
I read Nigel Calder's book on boat maintenance early on and I know there's a description of the process there.
 
SeaBis makes a unit you can buy or rent that is designed just for this problem.
 
Here are a couple of blurbs about Electrolysis:
 
 
I've been putting this off til I get Kristy back in the water.  When I do, I'm going to hire an good electrician to help me find the problem.
 
I'm sure the experts on the site here will be able to help you more than I can.
 
Let us know what you do and what you find.  I'll do the same.
 
Kent
SM243
Kristy
 
 

From: "sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: zincs
 
 
Kristy, How would one determine if he had a current leak and how would one determine the source of the electric and its path into the water? Other than installing solar panels and a wind generator I have not added or changed anything electrically. Thanks, Pat