Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Paul- Supermaramu Mizzen Spotlight

Craig Briggs
 

Several comments have posited that the bulbs are burning out due to high voltage, which may well be the case. On our SN there is a Linear Fixed Voltage Regulator, which I believe was originally installed by Amel. It feeds the masthead anchor light and forward white running lights (the SN does not have a mizzen light.) This is mounted inside the overhead wire compartment where the forward breakers are outside the head. It looks like Amel fabricated it from a small aluminum heat sink with two L7812CT regulators screwed to it (for the SM it would be L7824CT). These regulators are stock electronic items, about $2 each, and limit the output to 12 (or 24) volts, regardless of input voltage, dumping any excess into the heat sink. I would guess the SM has it too, at least on the main mast lights, and it would be a cheap fix for the mizzen, unless you're going to LED's, in which case it is a good idea, too, although I guess newer LED's are less voltage sensitive.
Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN#68, Sangaris, Ft. Lauderdale



---In amelyachtowners@..., <pflafrance@...> wrote :

Eric
It looks like it would do the job. It is also cheaper by approx. $30. I just wonder what the voltage range is as stated previously when voltage can get up to 28.2V when running the genset and charging batteries. Also does the unit have the same connectors as the current bulb. Couldn't tell from the diagram.
Paul

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Supermaramu Mizzen Spotlight

 

 

Kent & Eric
We found the same problem and think it had to due with the charging of the batteries which took the voltage above 28V. We have found these LED spotlights work well and have had them for 3years and no problems. They are rated 9V - 30V and are really bright. They fit in the same receptacle that houses the old GE light bulb.
http://www.grote.com/products/63821-5-trilliant-36-led-whitelight-tractorplus-pattern-spadescrew-connector-retail-pack/

63821-5 – Trilliant® 36 LED WhiteLight™ Work Lamp, TractorPlus™ Pattern, Spade/Screw Connector, Retail Pack

Paul & Sue LaFrance
SV NOMAD #362


To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Supermaramu
Mizzen Spotlight  
Hi everyone,
  As with most SM's ( and maybe 54s ?) I have
spotlights on my main and mizzen
masts. The bulbs
are both Sealed Beam, GE 4505 28v
50w.I rarely use
these lights. In 14 years I have not changed the bulb on the
main ....but the mizzen bulb burns out at the least use. I
must have replaced 5 or 6, and they are a crazy
price.Has anyone
else experienced this issue? Any suggestions as to the
cause?  As they are designed for aircraft and rated at 28v
they should be easily rugged enough .It defies logic to
think that for that bulb alone there is somehow more than 28
volts being delivered.  Has anyone
found an LED bulb that fits the same holder
? Ian and
Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Corfu,
Greece   


Gas Indicator Light

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Our GAS indicator panel light just stopped working – I am quite keen to change it for an LED indicator instead has anyone sourced a good replacement for this or if not know the diameter of the hole in the panel for the existing indicator? I am away from the boat at the moment but would quite like to source a replacement in the meantime.

Thanks

Andrew

Ronpische
SM472 
Canet-en-Roussillon


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail halyard

Eric Freedman
 

Dereck,

I have found that if you make the temporary bowline longer the two bowlines do not have to travel through the notch in  the mast at the same time.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 2:26 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail halyard

 

 

Hi Derick,

Bad luck with the halyard !

If you use a similar diameter line and tie it to the halyard with a bowline it will go through the slot in the mast with a bit of pushing, and the line doesn't have to be too long, the end of the halyard will be at boom level without the knot having to travel all the way to the sheeve at the top of the mast.

Good luck !

Alan

SV Elyse SM437  


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Survey in Martinique

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Mike,

I purchased my Super Maramu 2000 in Martinique.
I used Martial Barriel and was very happy with his services.
Tel: 0590 28 14 41 - Mob : 069055 42 78
expert.maritime.barriel@wanadoo

I would not recommend Dominic Rousselon that did a poor job working with my insurance…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Grand Bahama, Bahamas


--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/8/15, zerotocruising@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Survey in Martinique
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 8, 2015, 4:41 PM


 









Hello Everyone,
Is there anyone here who
has purchased an Amel in Martinique and could recommend a
good surveyor on the island?
Thanks,
Mike









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Survey in Martinique

zerotocruising@...
 

Hello Everyone,


Is there anyone here who has purchased an Amel in Martinique and could recommend a good surveyor on the island?


Thanks,


Mike


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Painting deck stripes

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Yes, I am a "green striper" as the result of following Gary's instructions and UV. I have had several people ask me where to buy the green. I have told them all the full story.

We have only done this striping job once, and I agree with all of Gary's points. We now have professionally color-matched chocolate brown that is unconditionally guaranteed to not turn green, but we are going to buy white and have Amel-White deck stripes. I think that if Mr. Amel was here to design a new boat, he might do white stripes! Well, maybe. I just hope he doesn't give me a hard time about white stripes when I finally meet him.

Gary, you will always be my friend!

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 8, 2015 4:41 PM, "amelliahona" <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Hi Stephanie:


My SM is a 2001 and has lived most of its life in the Caribbean.  I have completed the deck strip painting process twice.  The comments about "peeling" off perhaps pertained to my experience with Penetro (a sealant) and not to the paint stripe.  I like tedious projects and so I don't mind the job, my wife on the other hand hates it and she shares in the work on an equal basis and thinks I a weird.

General rule of thumb whenever painting, THE PREP IS EVERYTHING.  Paint, in order to stick, must have either mechanical (so called tooth adhesion) adhesion created by  small scratches or roughening of the surface with appropriate grit sand paper or other mechanical means, OR by chemical adhesion such as is provided by acid etching of metal substrates.  In the case of the deck stripes you are looking for tooth adhesion.

Using an eraser will NOT provide tooth adhesion.  I would think a Dremel tool wire brush would be difficult to control within the grooves without marring the gelcoat outside the groves (but I have never used that method and could be wrong).  The early posts on this subject recommended using an eraser AS A SANDING BLOCK over which you formed some 300 grit sand paper to sand the groves without marring the gel coat outside the groves.  You want to create microscopic "teeth" scratches to only the part you are going to pain.  That is the process we used and it works very well as the beveled edge of the eraser allowed you to get your sandpaper right into the corner of the groove, sand with long easy strokes and complete control.  


My prep was as follows:

1. To remove all contaminants (foot oil, sunscreen oil, fish oil etc) from the deck I washed the deck and cabin top with soap and water and thoroughly rinse. 

2.  Using the eraser as a sanding block I "scuff sand" the groves.  Be meticulous in you sanding, make sure there are "scuffs" to every area of the groove that you will paint.

3.  Make sure the deck you are going to work on is completely dry and shaded so you aren't working in direct sunlight or with the deck having excess heat.  (we rig a roving Sunbrella cover that we tie to provide shade as we worked).  

4.  Prior to painting a section, use a clean cloth and wipe down each grove meticulously with mineral spirits or MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), turning the cloth frequently to remove sanding residue.  Allow this to completely dry (MEK flashes off more quickly than mineral spirits, but is more toxic to use). 

5.  Paint the groove using your stripping tool.  Lay in a good thick coat. With my tool this requires me to go over the groove at least three or four times.  My first go round with this process I made one pass (really two passes as the width of the tool required two passes, one down each side of the groove), and my paint was too thin resulting in early cosmetic degradation. The second time I painted my stripes I made multiple passes yielding a thicker paint film that lasted longer.  Tips on the painting process are outlined in previous posts.

I used Interlux Bright Side paint and mixed up my own colors (this last time) 240 ml of Red and 90 ml of green at a time to yield a very nice hershey brown color that closely matched the Amel original. This is the second time I mixed my own color (this time in a different proportion than previously when it turned green in about a year).  The problem is that after 1 year, the heavily UV exposed areas have darkened while that area with less exposure is still the original color. Bill Rouse followed my color mixing instructions years ago and had a similar green color after a period of time.  He seems to still be my friend even though I lead him down the wrong path on that issue.  

My experience is mostly with aircraft finishes and I am now (after two go-rounds) un-impressed with marine paints.  Joel mentioned using Imron paint for his projects with good results.  Aircraft Imron is a truly superior product and I assure you that the next time I do this job I will use an aircraft paint professionally color mixed.  I was intrigued with the photo of the white deck stripes and if that is verifiably cooler under-foot I may go that route next time.

As for Polytrol/Penetrol,  I applied Penetrol (the US product) as directed and things looked really great for about a year, although the decks seems more slippery, but then the coating turned white and flaked off. &n bsp;It took about a year for the decks to return to their natural state (i.e. not appearing like a peeling blotchy sunburn).  There was no long term damage but there was a year of blotchy variegation.  

Just some thoughts and my experience, 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona   Amel SM # 335



Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Bill:

You are great.  I am off the boat now for 6 months and I looked to see if I had any stock photos that I could post.  At first pass I can't see any.  Thanks in advance for posting photos.

Sincerely, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona


Re: Painting deck stripes

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Stephanie:

My SM is a 2001 and has lived most of its life in the Caribbean.  I have completed the deck strip painting process twice.  The comments about "peeling" off perhaps pertained to my experience with Penetro (a sealant) and not to the paint stripe.  I like tedious projects and so I don't mind the job, my wife on the other hand hates it and she shares in the work on an equal basis and thinks I a weird.

General rule of thumb whenever painting, THE PREP IS EVERYTHING.  Paint, in order to stick, must have either mechanical (so called tooth adhesion) adhesion created by  small scratches or roughening of the surface with appropriate grit sand paper or other mechanical means, OR by chemical adhesion such as is provided by acid etching of metal substrates.  In the case of the deck stripes you are looking for tooth adhesion.

Using an eraser will NOT provide tooth adhesion.  I would think a Dremel tool wire brush would be difficult to control within the grooves without marring the gelcoat outside the groves (but I have never used that method and could be wrong).  The early posts on this subject recommended using an eraser AS A SANDING BLOCK over which you formed some 300 grit sand paper to sand the groves without marring the gel coat outside the groves.  You want to create microscopic "teeth" scratches to only the part you are going to pain.  That is the process we used and it works very well as the beveled edge of the eraser allowed you to get your sandpaper right into the corner of the groove, sand with long easy strokes and complete control.  

My prep was as follows:

1. To remove all contaminants (foot oil, sunscreen oil, fish oil etc) from the deck I washed the deck and cabin top with soap and water and thoroughly rinse. 

2.  Using the eraser as a sanding block I "scuff sand" the groves.  Be meticulous in you sanding, make sure there are "scuffs" to every area of the groove that you will paint.

3.  Make sure the deck you are going to work on is completely dry and shaded so you aren't working in direct sunlight or with the deck having excess heat.  (we rig a roving Sunbrella cover that we tie to provide shade as we worked).  

4.  Prior to painting a section, use a clean cloth and wipe down each grove meticulously with mineral spirits or MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), turning the cloth frequently to remove sanding residue.  Allow this to completely dry (MEK flashes off more quickly than mineral spirits, but is more toxic to use). 

5.  Paint the groove using your stripping tool.  Lay in a good thick coat. With my tool this requires me to go over the groove at least three or four times.  My first go round with this process I made one pass (really two passes as the width of the tool required two passes, one down each side of the groove), and my paint was too thin resulting in early cosmetic degradation. The second time I painted my stripes I made multiple passes yielding a thicker paint film that lasted longer.  Tips on the painting process are outlined in previous posts.

I used Interlux Bright Side paint and mixed up my own colors (this last time) 240 ml of Red and 90 ml of green at a time to yield a very nice hershey brown color that closely matched the Amel original. This is the second time I mixed my own color (this time in a different proportion than previously when it turned green in about a year).  The problem is that after 1 year, the heavily UV exposed areas have darkened while that area with less exposure is still the original color. Bill Rouse followed my color mixing instructions years ago and had a similar green color after a period of time.  He seems to still be my friend even though I lead him down the wrong path on that issue.  

My experience is mostly with aircraft finishes and I am now (after two go-rounds) un-impressed with marine paints.  Joel mentioned using Imron paint for his projects with good results.  Aircraft Imron is a truly superior product and I assure you that the next time I do this job I will use an aircraft paint professionally color mixed.  I was intrigued with the photo of the white deck stripes and if that is verifiably cooler under-foot I may go that route next time.

As for Polytrol/Penetrol,  I applied Penetrol (the US product) as directed and things looked really great for about a year, although the decks seems more slippery, but then the coating turned white and flaked off.  It took about a year for the decks to return to their natural state (i.e. not appearing like a peeling blotchy sunburn).  There was no long term damage but there was a year of blotchy variegation.  

Just some thoughts and my experience, 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona   Amel SM # 335



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Separating the quadrant from the rudder post

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

In the US there is an adjustable plumbers spanner tool that works perfectly. I will post a photo tomorrow on the Amel Group.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 8, 2015 4:20 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good morning Trevor,

Thanks for your reply. Saving your message.
No problem at the time with the rudder, but will had to my list to have a spanner made.

Also good info for the pipe for the drive shaft, last time I followed gary’s recommendation (from memory: using the old “bague d’usure”) but would be curious to see pictures too!

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/6/15, seafeverofcuan@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Separating the quadrant from the rudder post
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, June 6, 2015, 6:47 AM


 









Dear Alexandre,                 
     Unfortunately the spanner is under the bunk on the
boat in Mexico and I am in Ireland.It
couldn't be more simple. I took an A4 piece of paper,
measured the width and depth of the nylon nut with my
vernier, drew that on the page, then sketched the shape of a
spanner/wrench around it and had it cut out in machine
shop.So you have a very thin wrench/spanner,
 with wide jaws that slides under the quadrant, the nut
usually takes a quarter turn every 12 to 18
months.
On a separate
point, I also got the same machine shop in Brazil, to make
me a pipe which slides over the drive shaft. The pipe has a
round flange that moves along the pipe, you can fix it in
the exact position required with two allen screws to push in
the oil seals for the wear bearing, by putting a couple of
washers over the drive shaft and tightening up the long
Autoprop nut by hand.
I appreciate photographs would be
better, I just hope the above makes sense to
you.
Regards,
TrevorSeafeverSM425Mexico









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Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thanks so much Bill !!!




--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/8/15, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 8, 2015, 9:19 AM


 









Alex,
I will post a photo tomorrow.
Bill Rouse

BeBe Amel 53 #387

Sent from my tablet

+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile

+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Jun 8, 2015 4:11 PM,
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 









Dear Gary, as always thanks so much for your
explanations.



Is there any way you (or someone) could take a pictures of:
the “Adjustment screw”?

Referring to the phrase: "The pin alignment is
determined by the adjustment screw position of the alignment
clasp at the top of the motor”.

I have no issue at the moment, but would be curious to know
for future reference.



Note: adding a 3rd foam seal was from a self proclaimed
“Amel specialist” in Fort Lauderdale… I opted
against, sticking to original Amel specs.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Port Lucaya, Grand Bahama



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/8/15, amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow
thruster

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, June 8, 2015, 8:47 AM





 



















Hi everyone:  I watched these discussion but had

limited internet access while sailing so haven't
replied

prior to this.  Regarding adding a third foam seam

on the exterior position of the bow thruster.  I would

highly discourage doing that!  Why?  Because the
increased

compressive force required during retraction might
over-tax

the small linear drive motor/gear system.  Rather than

altering the AMEL SYSTEM by your own engineering, when

replacing the foam seals verify that the rigging of the

system is proper with a slight compressive force on the

external seals when the locking pin is engaged.    (By
the

way the neoprene seals are "closed cell foam"
and

not porous to water).

TO VERIFY THE RIGGING undertake the

following (like most rigging of complex systems many
parts

interplay with others and this can be a tedious job. 
For

example rigging the landing gear retraction system on my

Cessna 421 is a two day job for two people, but then the

Amel system is simple by comparison):

1.  After installing the new lip

seal, two external neoprene seals, and one internal
neoprene

seal, re-assembling the system.  Then raise the bow

thruster with the retraction motor but not quite all the

way, leaving it down about an inch from the pin
engagement

position.2.  While someone watches from inside

the boat, go to the outside of the boat and manually push
up

on the bow thruster fairing.  You should be able to
feel

the seals compress (increased resistance) just as the

fairing comes into a faired alignment with the hull),
and

simultaneously the person in the boat should verify the

locking pin hole comes into alignment.  I believe that
only

about 1/4th of an inch of compression is all you need. 
All

three things should happen simultaneously: (1.

Bow-thruster fairing comes flush with the hull, 2. a

compressive force is felt verifying that the two
external

neoprene seals are appropriately compressed, and 3. the

locking pin hole alignment appears appropriate and the
pin

can engage without the bow thruster coming down and

releasing the compressive force on the seals).

I use my boat somewhat lightly,

sailing only about 1,000 miles per year, but in 14 years

have only overhauled my bow thruster 4 times.  I have
never

had any evidence of water of any kind coming past my bow

thruster seals. None, zip, nada.   If you have water
coming

past this very elegant seal system it is due to poor
seals,

out of rig retraction system or both.   

Note:  The height of the bow

thruster retraction is determined by the limit sensors
of

the retraction mechanism and the length of the cable,
 The

pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw
position

of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor.  These
are

interactive so an adjustment to one will require an

adjustment to the others.  The key is to
"feel"

the compressive force on the external seals and adjust
the

rigging of the retraction mechanism so that there is
some,

but not undue, force applied while all other rigging
bits

and pieces are correct.   This is not difficult but can
be

fiddly. Understand the system and don't let a ham

fisted, know-nothing, non-Amel savvy mechanic tinker
with

your system. 

As

always, I hope I have helped and not added to the

confusion. 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silvers/v Liahona

  Amel SM #335On the hard (darn) in Puerto Del

Ray, Puerto Rico






































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Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

I will post a photo tomorrow.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 8, 2015 4:11 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Gary, as always thanks so much for your explanations.

Is there any way you (or someone) could take a pictures of: the “Adjustment screw”?
Referring to the phrase: "The pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw position of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor”.
I have no issue at the moment, but would be curious to know for future reference.

Note: adding a 3rd foam seal was from a self proclaimed “Amel specialist” in Fort Lauderdale… I opted against, sticking to original Amel specs.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Port Lucaya, Grand Bahama

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/8/15, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, June 8, 2015, 8:47 AM


 









Hi everyone:  I watched these discussion but had
limited internet access while sailing so haven't replied
prior to this.  Regarding adding a third foam seam
on the exterior position of the bow thruster.  I would
highly discourage doing that!  Why?  Because the increased
compressive force required during retraction might over-tax
the small linear drive motor/gear system.  Rather than
altering the AMEL SYSTEM by your own engineering, when
replacing the foam seals verify that the rigging of the
system is proper with a slight compressive force on the
external seals when the locking pin is engaged.    (By the
way the neoprene seals are "closed cell foam" and
not porous to water).
TO VERIFY THE RIGGING undertake the
following (like most rigging of complex systems many parts
interplay with others and this can be a tedious job.  For
example rigging the landing gear retraction system on my
Cessna 421 is a two day job for two people, but then the
Amel system is simple by comparison):
1.  After installing the new lip
seal, two external neoprene seals, and one internal neoprene
seal, re-assembling the system.  Then raise the bow
thruster with the retraction motor but not quite all the
way, leaving it down about an inch from the pin engagement
position.2.  While someone watches from inside
the boat, go to the outside of the boat and manually push up
on the bow thruster fairing.  You should be able to feel
the seals compress (increased resistance) just as the
fairing comes into a faired alignment with the hull), and
simultaneously the person in the boat should verify the
locking pin hole comes into alignment.  I believe that only
about 1/4th of an inch of compression is all you need.  All
three things should happen simultaneously: (1.
Bow-thruster fairing comes flush with the hull, 2. a
compressive force is felt verifying that the two external
neoprene seals are appropriately compressed, and 3. the
locking pin hole alignment appears appropriate and the pin
can engage without the bow thruster coming down and
releasing the compressive force on the seals).
I use my boat somewhat lightly,
sailing only about 1,000 miles per year, but in 14 years
have only overhauled my bow thruster 4 times.  I have never
had any evidence of water of any kind coming past my bow
thruster seals. None, zip, nada.   If you have water coming
past this very elegant seal system it is due to poor seals,
out of rig retraction system or both.   
Note:  The height of the bow
thruster retraction is determined by the limit sensors of
the retraction mechanism and the length of the cable,  The
pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw position
of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor.  These are
interactive so an adjustment to one will require an
adjustment to the others.  The key is to "feel"
the compressive force on the external seals and adjust the
rigging of the retraction mechanism so that there is some,
but not undue, force applied while all other rigging bits
and pieces are correct.   This is not difficult but can be
fiddly. Understand the system and don't let a ham
fisted, know-nothing, non-Amel savvy mechanic tinker with
your system. 
As
always, I hope I have helped and not added to the
confusion. 
Sincerely, 
Gary S. Silvers/v Liahona
  Amel SM #335On the hard (darn) in Puerto Del
Ray, Puerto Rico




Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Hi Gary and everyone,

I am late to the discussion because we have been on the move in the Med.

Gary Silver is absolutely the best person to discuss and explain the Amel Bow Thruster. Most of you know that Gary wrote the instructions that we all use to service the bow thruster.

Gary, thank you very much for a clear, consice, accurate, complete, and correct explaination. With your permission, I would like to add this to the PDF file in the FILES section for servicing the bow thruster.

Best,

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 8, 2015 3:47 PM, "amelliahona" <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Hi everyone:  I watched these discussion but had limited internet access while sailing so haven't replied prior to this.  

Regarding adding a third foam seam on the exterior position of the bow thruster.  I would highly discourage doing that!  Why?  Because the increased compressive force required during retraction might over-tax the small linear drive motor/gear system.  Rather than altering the AMEL SYSTEM by your own engineering, when replacing the foam seals verify that the rigging of the system is proper with a slight compressive force on the external seals when the locking pin is engaged.    (By the way the neoprene seals are "closed cell foam" and not porous to water).

TO VERIFY THE RIGGING undertake the following (like most rigging of complex systems many parts interplay with others and this can be a tedious job.  For example rigging the landing gear retraction system on my Cessna 421 is a two day job for two people, but then the Amel system is simple by comparison):

1.  After installing the new lip seal, two external neoprene seals, and one internal neoprene seal, re-assembling the system.  Then raise the bow thruster with the retraction motor but not quite all the way, leaving it down about an inch from the pin engagement position.
2.  While someone watches from inside the boat, go to the outside of the boat and manually push up on the bow thruster fairing.  You should be able to feel the seals compress (increased resistance) just as the fairing comes into a faired alignment with the hull), and simultaneously the person in the boat should verify the locking pin hole comes into alignment.  I believe that only about 1/4th of an inch of compression is all you need.  All three things should happen simultaneously:
 (1. Bow-thruster fairing comes flush with the hull, 2. a compressive force is felt verifying that the two external neoprene seals are appropriately compressed, and 3. the locking pin hole alignment appears appropriate and the pin can engage without the bow thruster coming down and releasing the compressive force on the seals).

I use my boat somewhat lightly, sailing only about 1,000 miles per year, but in 14 years have only overhauled my bow thruster 4 times.  I have never had any evidence of water of any kind coming past my bow thruster seals. None, zip, nada.   If you have water coming past this very elegant seal system it is due to poor seals, out of rig retraction system or both.   

Note:  The height of the bow thruster retraction is determined by the limit sensors of the retraction mechanism and the length of the cable,  The pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw position of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor.  These are interactive so an adjustment to one will require an adjustment to the others.  The key is to "feel" the compressive force on the external seals and adjust the rigging of the retraction mechanism so that there is some, but not undue, force applied while all other rigging bits and pieces are correct.   This is not difficult but can be fiddly. Understand the system and don't let a ham fisted, know-nothing, non-Amel savvy mechanic tinker with your system. 

As always, I hope I have helped and not added to the confusion. 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona   Amel SM #335
On the hard (darn) in Puerto Del Ray, Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Separating the quadrant from the rudder post

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Trevor,

Thanks for your reply. Saving your message.
No problem at the time with the rudder, but will had to my list to have a spanner made.

Also good info for the pipe for the drive shaft, last time I followed gary’s recommendation (from memory: using the old “bague d’usure”) but would be curious to see pictures too!

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/6/15, seafeverofcuan@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Separating the quadrant from the rudder post
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 6, 2015, 6:47 AM


 









Dear Alexandre,                 
     Unfortunately the spanner is under the bunk on the
boat in Mexico and I am in Ireland.It
couldn't be more simple. I took an A4 piece of paper,
measured the width and depth of the nylon nut with my
vernier, drew that on the page, then sketched the shape of a
spanner/wrench around it and had it cut out in machine
shop.So you have a very thin wrench/spanner,
 with wide jaws that slides under the quadrant, the nut
usually takes a quarter turn every 12 to 18
months.
On a separate
point, I also got the same machine shop in Brazil, to make
me a pipe which slides over the drive shaft. The pipe has a
round flange that moves along the pipe, you can fix it in
the exact position required with two allen screws to push in
the oil seals for the wear bearing, by putting a couple of
washers over the drive shaft and tightening up the long
Autoprop nut by hand.
I appreciate photographs would be
better, I just hope the above makes sense to
you.
Regards,
TrevorSeafeverSM425Mexico









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Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Dear Gary, as always thanks so much for your explanations.

Is there any way you (or someone) could take a pictures of: the “Adjustment screw”?
Referring to the phrase: "The pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw position of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor”.
I have no issue at the moment, but would be curious to know for future reference.

Note: adding a 3rd foam seal was from a self proclaimed “Amel specialist” in Fort Lauderdale… I opted against, sticking to original Amel specs.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Port Lucaya, Grand Bahama


--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/8/15, amelliahona <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 8, 2015, 8:47 AM


 









Hi everyone:  I watched these discussion but had
limited internet access while sailing so haven't replied
prior to this.  Regarding adding a third foam seam
on the exterior position of the bow thruster.  I would
highly discourage doing that!  Why?  Because the increased
compressive force required during retraction might over-tax
the small linear drive motor/gear system.  Rather than
altering the AMEL SYSTEM by your own engineering, when
replacing the foam seals verify that the rigging of the
system is proper with a slight compressive force on the
external seals when the locking pin is engaged.    (By the
way the neoprene seals are "closed cell foam" and
not porous to water).
TO VERIFY THE RIGGING undertake the
following (like most rigging of complex systems many parts
interplay with others and this can be a tedious job.  For
example rigging the landing gear retraction system on my
Cessna 421 is a two day job for two people, but then the
Amel system is simple by comparison):
1.  After installing the new lip
seal, two external neoprene seals, and one internal neoprene
seal, re-assembling the system.  Then raise the bow
thruster with the retraction motor but not quite all the
way, leaving it down about an inch from the pin engagement
position.2.  While someone watches from inside
the boat, go to the outside of the boat and manually push up
on the bow thruster fairing.  You should be able to feel
the seals compress (increased resistance) just as the
fairing comes into a faired alignment with the hull), and
simultaneously the person in the boat should verify the
locking pin hole comes into alignment.  I believe that only
about 1/4th of an inch of compression is all you need.  All
three things should happen simultaneously: (1.
Bow-thruster fairing comes flush with the hull, 2. a
compressive force is felt verifying that the two external
neoprene seals are appropriately compressed, and 3. the
locking pin hole alignment appears appropriate and the pin
can engage without the bow thruster coming down and
releasing the compressive force on the seals).
I use my boat somewhat lightly,
sailing only about 1,000 miles per year, but in 14 years
have only overhauled my bow thruster 4 times.  I have never
had any evidence of water of any kind coming past my bow
thruster seals. None, zip, nada.   If you have water coming
past this very elegant seal system it is due to poor seals,
out of rig retraction system or both.   
Note:  The height of the bow
thruster retraction is determined by the limit sensors of
the retraction mechanism and the length of the cable,  The
pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw position
of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor.  These are
interactive so an adjustment to one will require an
adjustment to the others.  The key is to "feel"
the compressive force on the external seals and adjust the
rigging of the retraction mechanism so that there is some,
but not undue, force applied while all other rigging bits
and pieces are correct.   This is not difficult but can be
fiddly. Understand the system and don't let a ham
fisted, know-nothing, non-Amel savvy mechanic tinker with
your system. 
As
always, I hope I have helped and not added to the
confusion. 
Sincerely, 
Gary S. Silvers/v Liahona
  Amel SM #335On the hard (darn) in Puerto Del
Ray, Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mainsail halyard

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Derick

I think the thin line protruding from the slot at the top of the mast will be attached to the traveller that runs up and down the furling foil – the substantial halyard then attaches to the upper side of this – on our mast there is a black bolt that protrudes also through the slot that is attached to the traveller that I suppose maintains the traveller orientation during furling. You would want to attach a line either to the thin line or the protruding bolt to pull down the traveller.

Andrew

Ronpische
SM472 
Canet-en-Roussillon

From: "amelyachtowners@..." on behalf of "amelyachtowners@..."
Reply-To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Date: Monday, 8 June 2015 04:53
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mainsail halyard

 

Today on a beautiful reach from St. Thomas to Culebra the mainsail halyard let go.  Over the course of a few minutes the sail slowly slid down the track in the roller reefing, and we were forced to pull it down fully and wrap it over the boom and secure it with lines - not an easy job with vertical battens!


The fabric loop at the head of the mainsail is intact, and we can see a thin line protuding from the slot at the top of the mast.  Am I right in assuming that this line had been used to fasten the much more substantial internal halyard to the head of the mainsail, and the knots used by the original rigger had let go from the head of the sail? Just want to know what to expect before going all the way up the mast to attempt to pull the halyard down by hand.  At the other end of the line, I assume I will have to attach a temporary extension on the infamous Amel short halyard - any suggestions on what knot/splicing technique to use that will fit through the internal halyard space without getting hung up internally?  I assume that the splice does NOT need to go through the shive at the top  of the mast, because the internal halyard should be the length of the luff.

Am I missing anything involved in recovering main halyard function?

Derick

SM2K #400 Brava
Currently in Culebra, Spanish Virging Islands


Re: FW: [Amel Yacht Owners] foam seals on the bow thruster

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi everyone:  I watched these discussion but had limited internet access while sailing so haven't replied prior to this.  
Regarding adding a third foam seam on the exterior position of the bow thruster.  I would highly discourage doing that!  Why?  Because the increased compressive force required during retraction might over-tax the small linear drive motor/gear system.  Rather than altering the AMEL SYSTEM by your own engineering, when replacing the foam seals verify that the rigging of the system is proper with a slight compressive force on the external seals when the locking pin is engaged.    (By the way the neoprene seals are "closed cell foam" and not porous to water).

TO VERIFY THE RIGGING undertake the following (like most rigging of complex systems many parts interplay with others and this can be a tedious job.  For example rigging the landing gear retraction system on my Cessna 421 is a two day job for two people, but then the Amel system is simple by comparison):

1.  After installing the new lip seal, two external neoprene seals, and one internal neoprene seal, re-assembling the system.  Then raise the bow thruster with the retraction motor but not quite all the way, leaving it down about an inch from the pin engagement position.
2.  While someone watches from inside the boat, go to the outside of the boat and manually push up on the bow thruster fairing.  You should be able to feel the seals compress (increased resistance) just as the fairing comes into a faired alignment with the hull), and simultaneously the person in the boat should verify the locking pin hole comes into alignment.  I believe that only about 1/4th of an inch of compression is all you need.  All three things should happen simultaneously:
 (1. Bow-thruster fairing comes flush with the hull, 2. a compressive force is felt verifying that the two external neoprene seals are appropriately compressed, and 3. the locking pin hole alignment appears appropriate and the pin can engage without the bow thruster coming down and releasing the compressive force on the seals).

I use my boat somewhat lightly, sailing only about 1,000 miles per year, but in 14 years have only overhauled my bow thruster 4 times.  I have never had any evidence of water of any kind coming past my bow thruster seals. None, zip, nada.   If you have water coming past this very elegant seal system it is due to poor seals, out of rig retraction system or both.   

Note:  The height of the bow thruster retraction is determined by the limit sensors of the retraction mechanism and the length of the cable,  The pin alignment is determined by the adjustment screw position of the alignment clasp at the top of the motor.  These are interactive so an adjustment to one will require an adjustment to the others.  The key is to "feel" the compressive force on the external seals and adjust the rigging of the retraction mechanism so that there is some, but not undue, force applied while all other rigging bits and pieces are correct.   This is not difficult but can be fiddly. Understand the system and don't let a ham fisted, know-nothing, non-Amel savvy mechanic tinker with your system. 

As always, I hope I have helped and not added to the confusion. 

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona   Amel SM #335
On the hard (darn) in Puerto Del Ray, Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail halyard

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Alan I should have scrolled up to your post before I repeated your advice.
Cheers
Danny
 


From: "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Monday, 8 June 2015 6:26 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mainsail halyard

 
Hi Derick,
Bad luck with the halyard !
If you use a similar diameter line and tie it to the halyard with a bowline it will go through the slot in the mast with a bit of pushing, and the line doesn't have to be too long, the end of the halyard will be at boom level without the knot having to travel all the way to the sheeve at the top of the mast.
Good luck !
Alan
SV Elyse SM437  



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mainsail halyard

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Derrick,
to attach an extension to the short halyard all you have to do is form a loop in the tail using a bowline knot. Pass your extension through this loop and form a loop again with a bowline to connect the two . You will find the aperture in the mast will allow these knots through with relative ease, you may have to stand on a winch and reach up to help them through if they catch  As to what you will find at the top, Never been there. 
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean pearl

 


From: "derickgates@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Monday, 8 June 2015 2:53 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mainsail halyard

 
Today on a beautiful reach from St. Thomas to Culebra the mainsail halyard let go.  Over the course of a few minutes the sail slowly slid down the track in the roller reefing, and we were forced to pull it down fully and wrap it over the boom and secure it with lines - not an easy job with vertical battens!

The fabric loop at the head of the mainsail is intact, and we can see a thin line protuding from the slot at the top of the mast.  Am I right in assuming that this line had been used to fasten the much more substantial internal halyard to the head of the mainsail, and the knots used by the original rigger had let go from the head of the sail? Just want to know what to expect before going all the way up the mast to attempt to pull the halyard down by hand.  At the other end of the line, I assume I will have to attach a temporary extension on the infamous Amel short halyard - any suggestions on what knot/splicing technique to use that will fit through the internal halyard space without getting hung up internally?  I assume that the splice does NOT need to go through the shive at the top  of the mast, because the internal halyard should be the length of the luff.

Am I missing anything involved in recovering main halyard function?

Derick

SM2K #400 Brava
Currently in Culebra, Spanish Virging Islands



Re: Mainsail halyard

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Derick,
Bad luck with the halyard !
If you use a similar diameter line and tie it to the halyard with a bowline it will go through the slot in the mast with a bit of pushing, and the line doesn't have to be too long, the end of the halyard will be at boom level without the knot having to travel all the way to the sheeve at the top of the mast.
Good luck !
Alan
SV Elyse SM437  


Mainsail halyard

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Today on a beautiful reach from St. Thomas to Culebra the mainsail halyard let go.  Over the course of a few minutes the sail slowly slid down the track in the roller reefing, and we were forced to pull it down fully and wrap it over the boom and secure it with lines - not an easy job with vertical battens!

The fabric loop at the head of the mainsail is intact, and we can see a thin line protuding from the slot at the top of the mast.  Am I right in assuming that this line had been used to fasten the much more substantial internal halyard to the head of the mainsail, and the knots used by the original rigger had let go from the head of the sail? Just want to know what to expect before going all the way up the mast to attempt to pull the halyard down by hand.  At the other end of the line, I assume I will have to attach a temporary extension on the infamous Amel short halyard - any suggestions on what knot/splicing technique to use that will fit through the internal halyard space without getting hung up internally?  I assume that the splice does NOT need to go through the shive at the top  of the mast, because the internal halyard should be the length of the luff.

Am I missing anything involved in recovering main halyard function?

Derick

SM2K #400 Brava
Currently in Culebra, Spanish Virging Islands