Date   

New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.


File : /_Kit isolation Yanmar.pdf
Uploaded by : karkauai <karkauai@yahoo.com>
Description : Schematic and photos from Amel that show how to electrically isolate the Yanmar 4JH4HTE. It requires making your own new wiring harness, isolated ground switches and senders for oil pressure and temperature cut-off and gauges, isolated ground alternator(s), diodes, and a solenoid in the negative wire between the block and the negative battery post. The isolated ground components are grounded back to the battery instead of being grounded to the block. The starter and stop solenoid cannot be isolated, so they operate via the solenoid when the engine is cranked or stop switch is compressed. As soon as the key is released to the "run" position, or the stop button is released, the solenoid opens the circuit so that the engine is no longer connected to the negative battery post.
The most difficult part of this project is finding the proper isolated ground senders and switches. Yanmar will not release the specs. You can get the numbers and thread sizes directly from the senders and switches (the numbers are stamped in the hex heads used to tighten them into the block), but they still have to be interpreted, and comparable isolated ground parts found. I will post this when I am certain that I have something that works.


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/_Kit%20isolation%20Yanmar.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


karkauai <karkauai@yahoo.com>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thank your information Patrick,
Seems that SM with the fix prop are getting more out of their engines.

Sincerely, Alexandre
Sm2K #289 NIKIMAT
Grand Bahama


--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 6/26/15, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 26, 2015, 9:03 AM


 










Alexandre , I have a TMD22A and have always
obtained 2800 rpm and about 8.4 knts. I have a fixed prop.
Pat SM #123

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2015 10:22 pm

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower










 







Do you get 2800 rpm Danny?

Only get 2500...



Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 6/25/15, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower

To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com"
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Thursday, June 25, 2015, 9:16 PM





 



















Hi,

I believe

the rated full revs under load for the TMD22 is

2800rpm. RegardsDannySM 299

Ocean Pearl

 

From: "Alexandre

Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners]"

<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>



To:

amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com


Sent: Friday, 26 June

2015 11:14 AM

Subject: Re: [Amel

Yacht Owners] Repower





 



















Hallo

Hanspeter,







I have only own my SM2K since 2012, so my experience is

limited.







I have the Volvo TMD 22 P (same as Perkins M80T) which
is

rated for 78HP at 4500 RPM







Until 2 months ago, I was only able to reach 2100 to
2200

rpm (which gives 50 HP).



If you are not familiar with SM not able to reach high
RPM,

search post on possible oversize propeller for the SM
(at

least for the ones with the Volvo).







Earlier this year I had the propeller rebuild, I can
reach

2500 rpm (which is 56 HP).



Note that the maximum torque is at 2500 rpm.







Mostly I motor at 1600 rpm, which gives me 5 knots, and
use

less than 3.5 liter (less than 1 gallon) per hour.



Sometime I motor at 1800 rpm and I (think I) obtain 7
knots.





Every 10 hours, I increase the throttle to its max 2500
rpm

then reduce to 2400 rpm for a few minutes to clean

exhaust/turbo.



Personally I wish (for a sailing vessel) it was normally

aspirated, as I had the turbo rebuilt in 2012 then
changed

in 2015.







If you want, I can post the TMD22P data.







Sincerely, Alexandre



SM2K #289 NIKIMAT



Grand Bahama, Bahamas.







--------------------------------------------



On Thu, 6/25/15, 'hanspeter.baettig@bluemail.ch'

hanspeter.baettig@bluemail..ch [amelyachtowners]

<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:







Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower



To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com"

<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>



Date: Thursday, June 25, 2015, 5:44 PM











 







































Question to all SM ownersWhats



the different between 80 hp and 110 hpMax Speed



for SM is ca 8.5 knIndependent how much power,



the power on the Prop is Important I have this



speed with clean  boat/Propeller with the Perkins 80 hp



Turbo (1990, 3000 h)HanspeterSM 16



Tamango 2Göcek, Tutkey







Von meinem iPhone gesendet



Am 25.06.2015 um 18:18 schrieb "Germain



Jean-Pierre jgermain@xs4all.nl



[amelyachtowners]"

<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>:



































































 



























Wise choice Steve..



JPG
On



25 Jun 2015, at 17:00, flyboyscd@gmail.com



[amelyachtowners]

<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>



wrote:



































































 



























Thanks for the info Chris. It looks like 80 hp is



the way to go on our older boats due to the Cdrive



issues.







Regards,



Steve and Liz



Aloha SM72















































































































































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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

karkauai
 

If you are getting the 80 HP, the MaxProp setting should be similar to the old Perkins or my old Volvo, I think.  There was a significant difference between the Volvo78 and the Yanmar110.  I'll get them to you next week, too, when I get back to the boat.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Steve Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Kent. You are a wealth of knowledge on this subject, and a great resource for the group. I'm curious, is your alternator an isolated ground alternator? Also, what gadget do you have to measure hull potential, as I need one. I will admit that your experience has scared me a bit. 

On another subject, do you happen to know the pitch marks for your max prop? I've got the same prop, and suspect I'll need to adjust the pitch for the higher revving Yanmar. 

Steve and Liz
Aloha SM72




On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:36, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It's my understanding that it shouldn't cause a problem unless there is a fault in the engine's electrical system.  If there is, it can eat up your zincs almost overnight, then start working on the CDrive.
In my case I hauled out to paint the bottom, and discovered the prop zinc gone and rudder zincs almost gone.  While changing the prop shaft seals I discovered the shaft was about 1/3 eaten away as if a blow torch had been used on it.
I discovered a poorly installed charger/inverter that also had a fault, and poorly connected bonding system when I repowered with a Yanmar a few years ago.  I didn't understand the Amel grounding systems well enough at that time and the Yanmar was not isolated as Amel recommends.  I felt certain that the cause of my shaft problem was the charger/inverter and/or poorly bonded CDrive after re powering. 
 Isolating the new Yanmar is more complicated than it should be, and all hull potential readings were normal, so I elected to do the isolation later when I had all the necessary parts assembled.

After being back in the water only 5 weeks, I dove on the prop and discovered that the zincs were half gone.  This was in spite of all hull potential readings being in the "safe" range...but I never checked hull potential with the Yanmar or ONAN running.
When I get back to the boat next week, I expect to find a faulty alternator on the Yanmar.  If not, I'll let you know what I do find.  If that's what it is, the fault is grounded to the bonding system and would have destroyed my prop shaft again!
Before going back in the water I will have the Yanmar electrically isolated.
I will check hull potential monthly and weekly when on the dock with both the Yanmar and ONAN running,  the AC on, and the DC chargers running.
I won't stay connected to shore power unless I am on the boat.

I understand that the Amel system of isolating the bonding system from all AC and DC systems is what is done with metal-hulled boats, but can't confirm that.  It makes a lot more sense to me that that ABYC system of connecting all AC and DC systems to the bonding system.  It's another way that Capn Amel has good reason for designing his boats as he did.  Don't make changes without fully understanding why your boat is designed as it is.

More in a week or so!
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

karkauai
 

The 12v alternator that came on my Yanmar110 has a ground wire, but it is grounded to the block.  I think I will be able to use it.  The 24v alternator that was in the old Volvo is also an isolated ground, but has been grounded to the non-isolated Yanmar ground wire thus far.  Once I get the harness built, install the new switches, senders, and solenoids, both alternators and the senders will be grounded back to the negative on the battery side of the solenoid.  The solenoid will make the connection of the engine block to the negative battery post only when the engine is cranked or when the STOP button is pushed.  When the engine is stopped or running, the connection is interrupted by the solenoid.
It'll make more sense when I get the isolation schematics to you.
Good luck,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Steve Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Kent. You are a wealth of knowledge on this subject, and a great resource for the group. I'm curious, is your alternator an isolated ground alternator? Also, what gadget do you have to measure hull potential, as I need one. I will admit that your experience has scared me a bit. 

On another subject, do you happen to know the pitch marks for your max prop? I've got the same prop, and suspect I'll need to adjust the pitch for the higher revving Yanmar. 

Steve and Liz
Aloha SM72




On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:36, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It's my understanding that it shouldn't cause a problem unless there is a fault in the engine's electrical system.  If there is, it can eat up your zincs almost overnight, then start working on the CDrive.
In my case I hauled out to paint the bottom, and discovered the prop zinc gone and rudder zincs almost gone.  While changing the prop shaft seals I discovered the shaft was about 1/3 eaten away as if a blow torch had been used on it.
I discovered a poorly installed charger/inverter that also had a fault, and poorly connected bonding system when I repowered with a Yanmar a few years ago.  I didn't understand the Amel grounding systems well enough at that time and the Yanmar was not isolated as Amel recommends.  I felt certain that the cause of my shaft problem was the charger/inverter and/or poorly bonded CDrive after re powering. 
 Isolating the new Yanmar is more complicated than it should be, and all hull potential readings were normal, so I elected to do the isolation later when I had all the necessary parts assembled.

After being back in the water only 5 weeks, I dove on the prop and discovered that the zincs were half gone.  This was in spite of all hull potential readings being in the "safe" range...but I never checked hull potential with the Yanmar or ONAN running.
When I get back to the boat next week, I expect to find a faulty alternator on the Yanmar.  If not, I'll let you know what I do find.  If that's what it is, the fault is grounded to the bonding system and would have destroyed my prop shaft again!
Before going back in the water I will have the Yanmar electrically isolated.
I will check hull potential monthly and weekly when on the dock with both the Yanmar and ONAN running,  the AC on, and the DC chargers running.
I won't stay connected to shore power unless I am on the boat.

I understand that the Amel system of isolating the bonding system from all AC and DC systems is what is done with metal-hulled boats, but can't confirm that.  It makes a lot more sense to me that that ABYC system of connecting all AC and DC systems to the bonding system.  It's another way that Capn Amel has good reason for designing his boats as he did.  Don't make changes without fully understanding why your boat is designed as it is.

More in a week or so!
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: SSB HF Antenna

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Gary,

Did the old 7 meter whip antenna fit the new Shakespeare mount?  My plastic ball fitting just failed and I am having a hard time sourcing a new one.

Derick

SM2K#400 Brava
Currently on the hard in Antigua for hurricane season


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

karkauai
 

Oops, end of my post didn't come through.

The schematics on how to isolate ground are in French, but Maud says basically that any electrician worth his salt should be able to figure it out. (-:
I purchased an isolation "Kit" from Amel for 800 Euros that included only the schematic, a temp switch, an oil pressure switch, two solenoids, and three diodes.  I still have to make my own harness and find the isolated grounds senders for my gauges.


On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Steve,
Isolating the Yanmar has been a hair-pulling experience...as much because isolated sensors are difficult to match.  Ask Yanmar if the sensors are the same for the 80HP and 110HP.  If not, look on the sides of the hex nut that is used to tighten the sensors and get the numbers stamped there.  That may be the only way to determine the specs of the sensors, because Yanmar will not give you that information.  
You'll need senders for the gauges, too.  Find the make and model of the gauge and contact them about isolated ground senders.
I will send you a schematic that Amel sent to me about how to isolate your engine.  It's in French, but


On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Steve Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hey Richard,

We are about to order the new Yanmar for Aloha, and are finding Yanmar USA not helpful regarding the isolation issues. For example, they will not provide isolated ground alternators without a 4 month lead time. The alternators are not a problem, as I can provide my own, but they also seem unable to provide isolated sensors and such. I guess my question is where does one get all the required components to isolate the engine, if the engine manufacturer can't provide them?

On another note, a very nice dual alternator pulley and bracket kit can be provided by Electromax in Ontario, Canada for $560.00. The kit will fit the 80hp Yanmar which we are buying, or the 110hp which shares the same block. I previously purchase an alternator and watermaker from Electromax, and have found them to be great people to work with. 

Regarding Kent's CDrive issues, I have to wonder how much of the problem was a result of the lack of isolation of the engine since that has been corrected, and he seems to still have issues with the prop zinc disappearing. Some of the problems seem incredibly difficult to track down. 

Congratulations on a successful delivery across the pond, and welcome back. 

Regards,
Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM72
Hauled in St Augustine, Fl



On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

Stephen Davis
 

Thanks again Kent. All greatly appreciated. 
Steve



On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:45, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Steve,
Isolating the Yanmar has been a hair-pulling experience...as much because isolated sensors are difficult to match.  Ask Yanmar if the sensors are the same for the 80HP and 110HP.  If not, look on the sides of the hex nut that is used to tighten the sensors and get the numbers stamped there.  That may be the only way to determine the specs of the sensors, because Yanmar will not give you that information.  
You'll need senders for the gauges, too.  Find the make and model of the gauge and contact them about isolated ground senders.
I will send you a schematic that Amel sent to me about how to isolate your engine.  It's in French, but


On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Steve Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hey Richard,

We are about to order the new Yanmar for Aloha, and are finding Yanmar USA not helpful regarding the isolation issues. For example, they will not provide isolated ground alternators without a 4 month lead time. The alternators are not a problem, as I can provide my own, but they also seem unable to provide isolated sensors and such. I guess my question is where does one get all the required components to isolate the engine, if the engine manufacturer can't provide them?

On another note, a very nice dual alternator pulley and bracket kit can be provided by Electromax in Ontario, Canada for $560.00. The kit will fit the 80hp Yanmar which we are buying, or the 110hp which shares the same block. I previously purchase an alternator and watermaker from Electromax, and have found them to be great people to work with. 

Regarding Kent's CDrive issues, I have to wonder how much of the problem was a result of the lack of isolation of the engine since that has been corrected, and he seems to still have issues with the prop zinc disappearing. Some of the problems seem incredibly difficult to track down. 

Congratulations on a successful delivery across the pond, and welcome back. 

Regards,
Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM72
Hauled in St Augustine, Fl



On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

Stephen Davis
 

Thanks Kent. You are a wealth of knowledge on this subject, and a great resource for the group. I'm curious, is your alternator an isolated ground alternator? Also, what gadget do you have to measure hull potential, as I need one. I will admit that your experience has scared me a bit. 

On another subject, do you happen to know the pitch marks for your max prop? I've got the same prop, and suspect I'll need to adjust the pitch for the higher revving Yanmar. 

Steve and Liz
Aloha SM72




On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:36, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It's my understanding that it shouldn't cause a problem unless there is a fault in the engine's electrical system.  If there is, it can eat up your zincs almost overnight, then start working on the CDrive.
In my case I hauled out to paint the bottom, and discovered the prop zinc gone and rudder zincs almost gone.  While changing the prop shaft seals I discovered the shaft was about 1/3 eaten away as if a blow torch had been used on it.
I discovered a poorly installed charger/inverter that also had a fault, and poorly connected bonding system when I repowered with a Yanmar a few years ago.  I didn't understand the Amel grounding systems well enough at that time and the Yanmar was not isolated as Amel recommends.  I felt certain that the cause of my shaft problem was the charger/inverter and/or poorly bonded CDrive after re powering. 
 Isolating the new Yanmar is more complicated than it should be, and all hull potential readings were normal, so I elected to do the isolation later when I had all the necessary parts assembled.

After being back in the water only 5 weeks, I dove on the prop and discovered that the zincs were half gone.  This was in spite of all hull potential readings being in the "safe" range...but I never checked hull potential with the Yanmar or ONAN running.
When I get back to the boat next week, I expect to find a faulty alternator on the Yanmar.  If not, I'll let you know what I do find.  If that's what it is, the fault is grounded to the bonding system and would have destroyed my prop shaft again!
Before going back in the water I will have the Yanmar electrically isolated.
I will check hull potential monthly and weekly when on the dock with both the Yanmar and ONAN running,  the AC on, and the DC chargers running.
I won't stay connected to shore power unless I am on the boat.

I understand that the Amel system of isolating the bonding system from all AC and DC systems is what is done with metal-hulled boats, but can't confirm that.  It makes a lot more sense to me that that ABYC system of connecting all AC and DC systems to the bonding system.  It's another way that Capn Amel has good reason for designing his boats as he did.  Don't make changes without fully understanding why your boat is designed as it is.

More in a week or so!
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

karkauai
 

Steve,
Isolating the Yanmar has been a hair-pulling experience...as much because isolated sensors are difficult to match.  Ask Yanmar if the sensors are the same for the 80HP and 110HP.  If not, look on the sides of the hex nut that is used to tighten the sensors and get the numbers stamped there.  That may be the only way to determine the specs of the sensors, because Yanmar will not give you that information.  
You'll need senders for the gauges, too.  Find the make and model of the gauge and contact them about isolated ground senders.
I will send you a schematic that Amel sent to me about how to isolate your engine.  It's in French, but


On Jun 26, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Steve Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hey Richard,

We are about to order the new Yanmar for Aloha, and are finding Yanmar USA not helpful regarding the isolation issues. For example, they will not provide isolated ground alternators without a 4 month lead time. The alternators are not a problem, as I can provide my own, but they also seem unable to provide isolated sensors and such. I guess my question is where does one get all the required components to isolate the engine, if the engine manufacturer can't provide them?

On another note, a very nice dual alternator pulley and bracket kit can be provided by Electromax in Ontario, Canada for $560.00. The kit will fit the 80hp Yanmar which we are buying, or the 110hp which shares the same block. I previously purchase an alternator and watermaker from Electromax, and have found them to be great people to work with. 

Regarding Kent's CDrive issues, I have to wonder how much of the problem was a result of the lack of isolation of the engine since that has been corrected, and he seems to still have issues with the prop zinc disappearing. Some of the problems seem incredibly difficult to track down. 

Congratulations on a successful delivery across the pond, and welcome back. 

Regards,
Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM72
Hauled in St Augustine, Fl



On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

karkauai
 

It's my understanding that it shouldn't cause a problem unless there is a fault in the engine's electrical system.  If there is, it can eat up your zincs almost overnight, then start working on the CDrive.
In my case I hauled out to paint the bottom, and discovered the prop zinc gone and rudder zincs almost gone.  While changing the prop shaft seals I discovered the shaft was about 1/3 eaten away as if a blow torch had been used on it.
I discovered a poorly installed charger/inverter that also had a fault, and poorly connected bonding system when I repowered with a Yanmar a few years ago.  I didn't understand the Amel grounding systems well enough at that time and the Yanmar was not isolated as Amel recommends.  I felt certain that the cause of my shaft problem was the charger/inverter and/or poorly bonded CDrive after re powering. 
 Isolating the new Yanmar is more complicated than it should be, and all hull potential readings were normal, so I elected to do the isolation later when I had all the necessary parts assembled.

After being back in the water only 5 weeks, I dove on the prop and discovered that the zincs were half gone.  This was in spite of all hull potential readings being in the "safe" range...but I never checked hull potential with the Yanmar or ONAN running.
When I get back to the boat next week, I expect to find a faulty alternator on the Yanmar.  If not, I'll let you know what I do find.  If that's what it is, the fault is grounded to the bonding system and would have destroyed my prop shaft again!
Before going back in the water I will have the Yanmar electrically isolated.
I will check hull potential monthly and weekly when on the dock with both the Yanmar and ONAN running,  the AC on, and the DC chargers running.
I won't stay connected to shore power unless I am on the boat.

I understand that the Amel system of isolating the bonding system from all AC and DC systems is what is done with metal-hulled boats, but can't confirm that.  It makes a lot more sense to me that that ABYC system of connecting all AC and DC systems to the bonding system.  It's another way that Capn Amel has good reason for designing his boats as he did.  Don't make changes without fully understanding why your boat is designed as it is.

More in a week or so!
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

Stephen Davis
 

Hey Richard,

We are about to order the new Yanmar for Aloha, and are finding Yanmar USA not helpful regarding the isolation issues. For example, they will not provide isolated ground alternators without a 4 month lead time. The alternators are not a problem, as I can provide my own, but they also seem unable to provide isolated sensors and such. I guess my question is where does one get all the required components to isolate the engine, if the engine manufacturer can't provide them?

On another note, a very nice dual alternator pulley and bracket kit can be provided by Electromax in Ontario, Canada for $560.00. The kit will fit the 80hp Yanmar which we are buying, or the 110hp which shares the same block. I previously purchase an alternator and watermaker from Electromax, and have found them to be great people to work with. 

Regarding Kent's CDrive issues, I have to wonder how much of the problem was a result of the lack of isolation of the engine since that has been corrected, and he seems to still have issues with the prop zinc disappearing. Some of the problems seem incredibly difficult to track down. 

Congratulations on a successful delivery across the pond, and welcome back. 

Regards,
Steve and Liz Davis
Aloha SM72
Hauled in St Augustine, Fl



On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:19, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Richard,

Back in RI??  How many hours of sailing/engine did you do on the SM you moved from Goček?

Saw you had issues in Malta…

Cheers,

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007




On 26 Jun 2015, at 18:19, Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981



Posted by: Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (38)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Take a look at posts Kent has on this site. Not isolating the engine will over a very short time cause a issues with the Amel drive and engine. The old saying an once of prevention.    

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 26, 2015, at 07:51, alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?

Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower

Patrick McAneny
 

Alexandre , I have a TMD22A and have always obtained 2800 rpm and about 8.4 knts. I have a fixed prop. Pat SM #123
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2015 10:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower

 
Do you get 2800 rpm Danny?
Only get 2500...

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/25/15, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 2015, 9:16 PM


 









Hi,
I believe
the rated full revs under load for the TMD22 is
2800rpm. RegardsDannySM 299
Ocean Pearl
 
From: "Alexandre
Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...>

To:
amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Friday, 26 June
2015 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel
Yacht Owners] Repower


 









Hallo
Hanspeter,



I have only own my SM2K since 2012, so my experience is
limited.



I have the Volvo TMD 22 P (same as Perkins M80T) which is
rated for 78HP at 4500 RPM



Until 2 months ago, I was only able to reach 2100 to 2200
rpm (which gives 50 HP).

If you are not familiar with SM not able to reach high RPM,
search post on possible oversize propeller for the SM (at
least for the ones with the Volvo).



Earlier this year I had the propeller rebuild, I can reach
2500 rpm (which is 56 HP).

Note that the maximum torque is at 2500 rpm.



Mostly I motor at 1600 rpm, which gives me 5 knots, and use
less than 3.5 liter (less than 1 gallon) per hour.

Sometime I motor at 1800 rpm and I (think I) obtain 7 knots.


Every 10 hours, I increase the throttle to its max 2500 rpm
then reduce to 2400 rpm for a few minutes to clean
exhaust/turbo.

Personally I wish (for a sailing vessel) it was normally
aspirated, as I had the turbo rebuilt in 2012 then changed
in 2015.



If you want, I can post the TMD22P data.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Grand Bahama, Bahamas.



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 6/25/15, 'hanspeter.baettig@...'
hanspeter.baettig@bluemail..ch [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower

To: "amelyachtowners@..."
<amelyachtowners@...>

Date: Thursday, June 25, 2015, 5:44 PM





 



















Question to all SM ownersWhats

the different between 80 hp and 110 hpMax Speed

for SM is ca 8.5 knIndependent how much power,

the power on the Prop is Important I have this

speed with clean  boat/Propeller with the Perkins 80 hp

Turbo (1990, 3000 h)HanspeterSM 16

Tamango 2Göcek, Tutkey



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 25.06.2015 um 18:18 schrieb "Germain

Jean-Pierre jgermain@...

[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...>:

































 













Wise choice Steve..

JPG





On

25 Jun 2015, at 17:00, flyboyscd@...

[amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>

wrote:

































 













Thanks for the info Chris. It looks like 80 hp is

the way to go on our older boats due to the Cdrive

issues.



Regards,

Steve and Liz

Aloha SM72







































































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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] head sail furler grease

karkauai
 

Just a good waterproof grease should be fine.  Some have added grease nipples and add grease periodically.  Search "grease Genoa Furler".
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 26, 2015, at 9:28 AM, william_maffei@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi All-

I have recently disassmbled the head sail furler so the electric motor can get serviced and the bolts that spin the unit can get tapped/re-drilled. Thank you all for your instruction/recommendations for this procedure. Now that I have done this hands on it is a rather straight forward procedure that makes much more sense hands on rather than over email instructions... if that makes sense.

Anyways, really quickly... Just wondering if Amel or any owners can recommend a grease to use for the unit? Will a multipurpose calcium or lithium based waterproof marine grease due or is something special required?

Many thanks!

Bill
It's all Good
SM #195



head sail furler grease

william_maffei@...
 

Hi All-

I have recently disassmbled the head sail furler so the electric motor can get serviced and the bolts that spin the unit can get tapped/re-drilled. Thank you all for your instruction/recommendations for this procedure. Now that I have done this hands on it is a rather straight forward procedure that makes much more sense hands on rather than over email instructions... if that makes sense.

Anyways, really quickly... Just wondering if Amel or any owners can recommend a grease to use for the unit? Will a multipurpose calcium or lithium based waterproof marine grease due or is something special required?

Many thanks!

Bill
It's all Good
SM #195



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Steve, Hanspster,

interesting about the overheating.
Did it just happened or was it there before.
As I mentioned, I have the Volvo TMD22P with 4900 hours.
The temperature gage was showing 195*F or 95*C.
It felt a little warm to me, I would have prefer seeing 10 degree less.
But even after motoring for 14 hours would remain the same (which was a good sign).
The hour meter (changed in 2012) also was working on and off, and sometime the tachometer was going all the way.
When I went to Fort Lauderdale last year, I explained my concern to Diesel of America.
In short (different story), I was taken advantage off, $9000 later, I am running hotter… I am skipping the lie and non-sense replies (will be happy to go in detail on another post), after “5 months”, it was finally back to what it was.
At the end, an answer I don’t totally believe. I was told that theses engine run so cold that they made sensors and gages showing a higher temperature. (I had the gage checked and it shows the right resistance)
I had added a second temperature gage and it does show 20 degree less.
May be this will solve your overheating problem. But if it just happened, then a new engine is in order.

But with $9000 of expenses (not including spare alternator, injector, fuel pump, hoses, etc.) I thought I should have replace it since was probably half way to a new engine. Not sure about the labor cost.

The decision is yours, a balance between piece of mind, cost, etc.
Just be very careful about the grounding as the other mentioned. Based on Kent experience, this could cost you much much more time and money…

Hanspeter, thanks for the temperature informations!
Viet thanks for the info, I remembered you didn’t had the gage.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Grand Bahama


--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 6/25/15, Stephen Davis flyboyscd@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Repower
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 25, 2015, 10:01 PM


 









Since I seem to
have started this repower thread, I'll tell you why we
have decided to repower. As with any decision, I have
multiple reasons that have influenced our choice.

Our Perkins Prima has
4200+ hours, and has had various issues in the year and a
half we have owned the boat. Currently we have a overheating
problem that we cant seem to completely cure. If I keep
throwing money at it, we will probably eventually figure it
out, but who knows. The wiring harness for the entire engine
is old and brittle, and really needs to be replaced. The
engine panel warnings are not working, the tach just went
out, and a new panel is quite expensive. To rebuild the
engine, fix all the other bits and pieces, is going to cost
about 3/4 of the price of a new Yanmar. Part of the problem
in the USA is the cost of parts and labor doing a
rebuild.

We are about
embark on a 10 year circumnavigation, and the thought of a
reliable new engine with a warranty for 25% more $$$ than
rebuilding an old one seems like a good deal to me. I also
suspect when we sell the boat after our circumnavigation, we
will get a much better price with a mid time Yanmar vs a 32
year old Perkins with 7000 hours.

I guess only time will tell if we are
making the right choice, but I'm comfortable with it.
Also, we should be back on the water in 2 or 3 weeks, but
with a rebuild, we would probably loose most of the summer.
In our case, we have spent the last year re-fitting the
boat, are ready to go, and it is worth a few $$$ to not lose
our summer of sailing.

Best Regards,
Steve
and Liz Davis
Aloha SM72
Hauled out in St. Augustine, FL



On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at
8:16 PM, seagasm@gmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 









Frankly, I am at a loss as to why a person would
change an engine in the first place. We have the Perkins TMD
22A Turbo and it runs like a gem. I can still reach the hull
speed of over 8 knots and I can still power into a 30 knot +
head wind and still make way comfortably. The engine has
proved to be very reliable and economical to run. If you put
two identical Amel's side by side, one with a
Perkins/Volva 80hp and one with a Yamnah 110hp and ran them
flat out, I doubt if you would see any difference except a
larger hole in your pocket.
It is my opinion one would be better
of spending the money and giving your existing engine a full
overhaul. The Perkins is a very good engine and if the
maintenance is kept up, like any engine, it will provide
many hours of service. I know I can get parts anywhere in
the world so why bother?
Just my two bob's
worth.
Kind
RegardsBarry & RobynTradewinds III
SM #171
































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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Repower

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Yes, Alan...

But, for those mechanics that may repower your Amel and for those who do not understand what Mr. Amel wanted, think of this:

When you are repowering your Amel with a C drive, where are you going to place that "shaft anode" (the one that normally protects the engine and transmission from electrolysis)? Think about it.

Best,

Bill
BeBe

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 2:30 PM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

It would mean that the electrical system is not isolated..this an Amel principle to minimise galvanic corrosion

All the battery negative connections in Amel boats are isolated from the ground connected to the anodes.
All metal connections in contact with saltwater are connected to the anodes (ground) and NOT connected to the battery negative
DO NOT CONNECT THE BATTERY NEGATIVE TO THE ANODE GROUND CIRCUIT
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
   



Re: Repower

Alan Leslie
 

It would mean that the electrical system is not isolated..this an Amel principle to minimise galvanic corrosion
All the battery negative connections in Amel boats are isolated from the ground connected to the anodes.
All metal connections in contact with saltwater are connected to the anodes (ground) and NOT connected to the battery negative
DO NOT CONNECT THE BATTERY NEGATIVE TO THE ANODE GROUND CIRCUIT
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
   


Re: Repower

Alejandro Paquin
 

So what would be the consequences on not isolating the engine ´s negative on all electrical sensors, actuators and alternators?
Alex Paquin
Simpatico Hull 94
Older Maramu 1981