Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

Chris Flack
 

Hey JP,

How long are you staying in Gocek?  We cross over into Turkey from Kos tomorrow.

Cheers
Chris
Hemera SM031


-----Original Message-----
From: "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

 

Hello Paul,

We will be in Gocek on the 16th. Would definitely reciprocate for beer😀 I know some watering holes!!!

JPG




On 13 Aug 2015, at 19:08, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jean-Pierre
Are you in Göchek now?
We will come to Emek tomorrow maybe I can offer you a beer or so
Paul SY KERPA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

Paul Osterberg
 

Good looking forward to meet
Paul and Keratin


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Paul,

We will be in Gocek on the 16th. Would definitely reciprocate for beer😀 I know some watering holes!!!

JPG




On 13 Aug 2015, at 19:08, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jean-Pierre
Are you in Göchek now?
We will come to Emek tomorrow maybe I can offer you a beer or so
Paul SY KERPA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

Paul Osterberg
 

Jean-Pierre
Are you in Göchek now?
We will come to Emek tomorrow maybe I can offer you a beer or so
Paul SY KERPA


Insurance quotes

Bob Grey
 

Hi guys, am up for insurance again, boat based in Australia, any idea on costs typical costs cruising Australian waters.

Renaissance 3


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thank yo so much Bill,

So 3 x 135 Watt sola panel is enough !
That sounds great. I thought I would need twice the amount.
So you have regular “flooded” Delco Freedom batteries and they charge fully, this si great.

I thought of the Kyocera as well.
Are they mounted on series or parallel?

A neighbor on a 54 has 4 x 200 Watt mounted in series and obtain 96 Volt which is then convert in 24 volt…
he (try to) explain the lost of energy proportional to the square of the amp, etc. in short gaining 35% by mounting in series, but I have absolutely no clue on that…
So just trying to understand and see working solutions…

Why do you run your genset? To make water, etc. or also to help charging the bateries?

As always thanks for the help!
Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 8/13/15, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2015, 10:06 AM


 









Alex,
We have 405 watts of solar which will keep the
batteries at 100% during daylight while running freezer,
fridge, fans and a computer or two.  We have a Victron Blue
MPPT controller which has been very good at regulating the
charge during daylight hours. We have 12 standard 110amp
house batteries...freedom model.
I would go with either German or Japanese solar
panels and keep clear of Chinese. There are probably good
panels from China, but I know that there are many poor
quality panels. I think that you get what you pay for. I
chose Kyocera panels from Japan...3 @ 135 watts each with a
MPPT controller up to 75 volts and up to 50 amps. I have the
3 panels wired in a series.
I now run the generator at anchor for about 1
to 1.5 hours every second day.
Bill Rouse

BeBe Amel 53 #387

Sent from my tablet

+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile

+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Aug 13, 2015 3:57 PM,
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 











Good morning,



Currently I have 8 of the traditional deep cycle flooded
batteries, which is ok, since I spend a large amount of time
in Marinas because of my work.



Therefore, I might start to spend more time at anchor.

From sailing experience I know the genset doesn’t fully
charge the batteries.

So will consider solar panels.

Does anyone have input in this solution?

Also for those using solar panels, did you keep the same
flooded batteries or did you change them with AGM, or else?




Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Taino Beach, Grand Bahama


































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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thanks Nathan, appreciate the feedback.
A neighbor with a 54 has also the Outback, he seems to love it.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 8/13/15, Nathan Bossett nbossett@pierb.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries
To: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2015, 10:33 AM


 









Like BeBe, I have Kyocera panels and have been
happy with them (also on

two other boats). That's two ~100W panels, one port and
one starboard on

the lifelines aft. The long axis is forward/aft and
they're mounted with

the lifeline up and down the center. They're on mounts
which allow them

to spin so that when in use they can be flat but when coming
into a slip

they can be spun inside the lifelines so they don't
stick out and get

caught on anything.



That mounting isn't ideal solar efficiency such as
you'd get by putting

them on a ball mount to swing forward/aft to track the sun
during the day

on an East or West passage. At any given and heading, one
might be in a

bit of shade from the mizzen. But they keep up with the
autopilot,

refrigeration, and other minor loads.



The key is an appropriate charge controller configured for
the type of

batteries. Mine is a Blue Sky (coupled with an Outback for
the AC

charging) but unlike the Kyocera's I didn't research
it because that's

what she came with.



My 2004(?) flooded batteries are just about done but took
some abuse along

the way.



-Nathan



Maramu #29



On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 06:54:04AM -0700, Alexandre Uster
von Baar uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners] wrote:

> So will consider solar panels.

> Does anyone have input in this solution?

> Also for those using solar panels, did you keep the
same flooded

> batteries or did you change them with AGM, or else?


>

> Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre

> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

> Taino Beach, Grand Bahama











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Nat Bossett
 

Like BeBe, I have Kyocera panels and have been happy with them (also on
two other boats). That's two ~100W panels, one port and one starboard on
the lifelines aft. The long axis is forward/aft and they're mounted with
the lifeline up and down the center. They're on mounts which allow them
to spin so that when in use they can be flat but when coming into a slip
they can be spun inside the lifelines so they don't stick out and get
caught on anything.

That mounting isn't ideal solar efficiency such as you'd get by putting
them on a ball mount to swing forward/aft to track the sun during the day
on an East or West passage. At any given and heading, one might be in a
bit of shade from the mizzen. But they keep up with the autopilot,
refrigeration, and other minor loads.

The key is an appropriate charge controller configured for the type of
batteries. Mine is a Blue Sky (coupled with an Outback for the AC
charging) but unlike the Kyocera's I didn't research it because that's
what she came with.

My 2004(?) flooded batteries are just about done but took some abuse along
the way.

-Nathan

Maramu #29

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 06:54:04AM -0700, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners] wrote:
So will consider solar panels.
Does anyone have input in this solution?
Also for those using solar panels, did you keep the same flooded
batteries or did you change them with AGM, or else?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Taino Beach, Grand Bahama


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
 

I kept a good 60 amp charger and added a new 50 amp unit. My situation might be different as I have all low draw electrics throughout the boat

I also have Emek marine solar setup with gantry. Charging at 22 amps at 1600 in GR. been on the pick for the last month and never had to run the gender other than AC and watermaker needs. 

ALWAYS at or near 100% battery charge. 

Works for us

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY ELEUTHERA SM 007


On 13 Aug 2015, at 17:23, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello!

From the thread concerning batteries, I see that some have the hefty 175 A alternator, my own is 50 A which I think is to small, But 175 looks enormous to me, You who have the 175 A do you have the 110 hp engine? I have the 75 hp TMD 22, 175 A would correspond to roughly 10% of the Hp output.

I considering 100A together with a smart regulator. as current set up do not serve as a back up if/when the genset does not work.

You with the TMD 22 what solution did you go for?

Paul on Kerpa SM#259



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

We have 405 watts of solar which will keep the batteries at 100% during daylight while running freezer, fridge, fans and a computer or two.  We have a Victron Blue MPPT controller which has been very good at regulating the charge during daylight hours. We have 12 standard 110amp house batteries...freedom model.

I would go with either German or Japanese solar panels and keep clear of Chinese. There are probably good panels from China, but I know that there are many poor quality panels. I think that you get what you pay for. I chose Kyocera panels from Japan...3 @ 135 watts each with a MPPT controller up to 75 volts and up to 50 amps. I have the 3 panels wired in a series.

I now run the generator at anchor for about 1 to 1.5 hours every second day.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Aug 13, 2015 3:57 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Good morning,

Currently I have 8 of the traditional deep cycle flooded batteries, which is ok, since I spend a large amount of time in Marinas because of my work.

Therefore, I might start to spend more time at anchor.
From sailing experience I know the genset doesn’t fully charge the batteries.
So will consider solar panels.
Does anyone have input in this solution?
Also for those using solar panels, did you keep the same flooded batteries or did you change them with AGM, or else?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Taino Beach, Grand Bahama


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Paul,

On SM2K #289 I also have the Volvo TMD 22 P and the 50 Amp alternator.

My original Dolphin battery charger were 30 and 50 amp, now replaced with 40 and 60 Amp.
In my experience, they (alternator or charger) only charge at full amp for the first 30 minutes or so, then decrease.

May be some have higher amp alternators because they have 12 house batteries and we only have 8.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K NIKIMAT
Grand bahama.


--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 8/13/15, osterberg.paul.l@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Altenator what size
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 13, 2015, 9:23 AM


 










Hello!From the thread concerning batteries, I see
that some have the hefty 175 A alternator, my own is 50 A
which I think is to small, But 175 looks enormous to me, You
who have the 175 A do you have the 110 hp engine? I have the
75 hp TMD 22, 175 A would correspond to roughly 10% of the
Hp output.I
considering 100A together with a smart regulator. as current
set up do not serve as a back up if/when the genset does not
work.You
with the TMD 22 what solution did you go
for?Paul on
Kerpa SM#259


New Altenator what size

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello!

From the thread concerning batteries, I see that some have the hefty 175 A alternator, my own is 50 A which I think is to small, But 175 looks enormous to me, You who have the 175 A do you have the 110 hp engine? I have the 75 hp TMD 22, 175 A would correspond to roughly 10% of the Hp output.

I considering 100A together with a smart regulator. as current set up do not serve as a back up if/when the genset does not work.

You with the TMD 22 what solution did you go for?

Paul on Kerpa SM#259



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning,

Currently I have 8 of the traditional deep cycle flooded batteries, which is ok, since I spend a large amount of time in Marinas because of my work.

Therefore, I might start to spend more time at anchor.
From sailing experience I know the genset doesn’t fully charge the batteries.
So will consider solar panels.
Does anyone have input in this solution?
Also for those using solar panels, did you keep the same flooded batteries or did you change them with AGM, or else?

Thanks in advance, sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Taino Beach, Grand Bahama


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries

karkauai
 

Hi Eric,
Mine have two pos and two neg studs.  Deep Cycle but with enough cranking amps to start the engine if the 12V system were to fail.

I'll look at the Voltage again when the batteries are full and let you know what I see tomorrow.  I think the voltage has to be pretty high to continue charging when the batteries are fully charged, but 28 sounds a bit high.  My 24 v alternator is an 80 A.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Aug 13, 2015, at 12:07 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

When I last changed my house batteries (12) all seemed ok . They were the same configuration as to what Amel supplied – Group 31 with one stud on either end.

I went to my supplier today and he tells me that here in the USA those batteries are engine starting batteries.

Marine deep cycle batteries have 2 terminals on each end.

 

What type of batteries do you have?

 

On motoring for a long time- days on end, I see that my 175 amp alternator is still putting out 28 volts however it is at 0.5 amps. Have any of you experienced this?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maramu Canadian registration questions

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Mike,

The second question I can answer if I knew the engine HP...or you can google, "convert hp to kw" for the answer.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:57 PM, zerotocruising@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all


We are the relatively new owners of a 1983 Maramu. The boat was previously French flagged and we are just now completing the process of having it flagged in Canada. In the tonnage documents we have to fill out, it is asking a couple of questions that I don't understand, or know the answers to. Perhaps someone here could help? This is what I need to know:


o   The "Length of a single tier of deckhouses and/or superstructures"

o   The “Brake power (kw)”


Thanks in advance for any help.

Mike

www.ZeroToCruising.com



Maramu Canadian registration questions

zerotocruising@...
 

Hi all


We are the relatively new owners of a 1983 Maramu. The boat was previously French flagged and we are just now completing the process of having it flagged in Canada. In the tonnage documents we have to fill out, it is asking a couple of questions that I don't understand, or know the answers to. Perhaps someone here could help? This is what I need to know:


o   The "Length of a single tier of deckhouses and/or superstructures"

o   The “Brake power (kw)”


Thanks in advance for any help.

Mike

www.ZeroToCruising.com


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all,
We are entering our 7th year with west marine 6 volt batteries in three banks four giving 24 volts. They fill the battery area. We have two starting batteries at the rear of the engine bay, one for each of the main engine and gen set. A couple of times a year we use the de-sulphation program on the dolphin chargers to rejuvenate the house batteries. Works well.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
 


From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, 13 August 2015 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries

 
Eric,
I think your supplier might be talking about one brand of battery, and I have no idea what brand that is. Certainly and positively not all Marine deep cycle batteries have two terminals.
Regarding the Leece-Neville 175amp alternator, yes, it is normal for it to put out 28 volts. When the internal voltage regulator goes to float with the batteries fully charged it will continue on-line at 28v, but with less than 1amp output. I should note that when I discussed going to AGM batteries with an engineer at Leece-Neville, he said that I would need to remove the internal regulator and modify the alternator to use an external smart regulator. He sent me a drawing of the necessary wiring modifications. He said if I did not make the modification the batteries would not last as long as they should...maybe half the life.
Several owners have changed this alternator regulator to an external "smart regulator" and included battery and alternator temperature sensors. There have been several approaches to this modification. The one I liked best was the one that left everything in place and added a smart regulator that could be switched off and then, when switched off, everything reverts to the way the alternator charged before the smart regulator was installed. I can't remember which owner did this. You can search using a key word "regulator" and probably find the Conversation.
I think that if you do not have a smart regulator on the Leece-Neville, you should check the amperage and the battery temperature regularly while motoring (what I do and I do while using 230V battery chargers). I strongly suspect that a fault in the internal regulator has resulted in several ruined battery banks.
Additionally, I believe it is a big risk to leave your boat connected to shore power with a charger ON unless that charger has battery temperature sensors that will turn it OFF when the battery temperature gets too high.
The last thing that I will mention is that I have been told by more than one battery supplier that some brands of batteries do not change anything except the marketing material when making marine deep-cycle batteries and starting batteries. I am not sure how much truth is in these statements, but a battery shop owner insisted he was in the factory of one brand and witnessed this first-hand.
So, the battery mysteries continue...
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Aug 13, 2015 6:07 AM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
When I last changed my house batteries (12) all seemed ok . They were the same configuration as to what Amel supplied – Group 31 with one stud on either end.
I went to my supplier today and he tells me that here in the USA those batteries are engine starting batteries.
Marine deep cycle batteries have 2 terminals on each end.
 
What type of batteries do you have?
 
On motoring for a long time- days on end, I see that my 175 amp alternator is still putting out 28 volts however it is at 0.5 amps. Have any of you experienced this?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 



Re: Batteries

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

When we bought Peregrinus in 2012 it had thirteen Deka 1231MF batteries, flooded, “calcium lead allow”.  Link with exact specs below.  These are truck starting batteries, with 3/8" x 16 stainless steel stud posts.  Our starting battery is still one of those: it will be happy to get charged with 14.25V constantly (28.5V if paired up).  I believe this battery to be very robust and to meet and exceed the quality expected by the Amel factory manual, which states the life of active cruising batteries, quote, "will probably not exceed 18 months."


With regard to your question "I see that my 175 amp alternator is still putting out 28 volts however it is at 0.5 amps", how are you measuring this?  If your sole instrument is the Link 10 in the 24V panel, remember that the Link 10 measures the net power going into the batteries.  The house alternator is putting out more than 0.5A, because it is feeding your autopilot, lights, fridge, etc.  What's left after that consumption is the 0.5A the Link 10 shows.


I do not recall the minimum amps reported by the Link 10 when motoring, but I do believe at some point when the batteries get fully charged you should see 0.1 to 0.0 going to the battery.


If at the end of your research you still have concerns about the performance of your house alternator, remember you can purchase a replacement internal Leece-Neville regulator for your alternator.  We inherited one as a spare and still have it onboard.  I believe it is about $150.  This replacement is the top- and forward-most section of your current alternator.


We replaced 12 of the batteries for Trojan 31-AGM.  These come with "Dual Terminal," i.e., "Automotive Post & Stud Terminal."  We evidently use the studs only and although each battery came with new washers and nuts, these were the exact same measurement as we had from before.  I do not recommend any Amel owners to purchase these batteries unless they have battery chargers and alternators that can be reprogrammed to charge the batteries at 27V in "float" mode.  Factory Amel configurations will destroy the Trojan 31-AGM in very little time.


http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Deka-Commercial-Batteries-Flyer-0010.pdf


Cheers,


Re: Batteries

Alan Leslie
 

Eric,

that battery man is telling you BS....batteries are starting or deep-cycle....nothing to do with the terminal configuration. 
Group 31 describes the physical size not the type or capacity.
Amel supplied Calcium Lead Acid Deep Cycle batteries of 105Amp Hour capacity x 12 in the Super Maramu Redline...they are linked as 6 paralleled sets of two in series to get 24V...this is more connections than most battery manfrs recommend.
We replaced ours with 6 V 210Ah same physical size AGMs wired in 3 paralleled banks of 4 in series to get 24V ...it's working well.

The phenomenon you've noted with 28V and no current is a characteristic of the automotive type regulator in the Leece-Neville alternator.
Prolonged 28V will eventually kill your deep cycle batteries.
We changed our system to bypass the internal reg and install an external 3-stage battery regulator (bulk, absorb, float) in order to look after our new batteries properly.
How I did it is all documented in the files section of this group....
There is another alternative method documented also

I would recommend you do this as you will kill your batteries if motoring for extended periods.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

When I last changed my house batteries (12) all seemed ok . They were the same configuration as to what Amel supplied – Group 31 with one stud on either end.

I went to my supplier today and he tells me that here in the USA those batteries are engine starting batteries.

Marine deep cycle batteries have 2 terminals on each end.

 

What type of batteries do you have?

 

On motoring for a long time- days on end, I see that my 175 amp alternator is still putting out 28 volts however it is at 0.5 amps. Have any of you experienced this?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Re: Is it Nessesary to change water heater?

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

When we purchased Peregrinus in 2012 it had a Quick B3 Nautic Boiler 40-liter with composite material casing; it is probable that this was a replacement as the Amel manual shows a stainless-steel casing boiler.  If so, this means the boiler was replaced in less than 10 years from factory delivery.

At any rate, at purchase time in 2012 the electric heating element was non-functional.  In early 2014 we replaced the element with a new 1200W and the old one came out badly rusted.

Under engine power the heater warms up water much faster than I would have expected and under marina power it is no slouch.  The heating element we set at max, again 1200W, at installation time and it has yet to fail.

Cheerio,