Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

Mark Erdos
 

If you are going to reinvent it, why not invent one that runs off salt water? J

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Norfolk VA.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 5:54 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

 

 

Thank you Mr. Bossett for your perspective! I am not an engineer although I am good at math and worked as a programmer, I am working my way through the solution. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated.

 

From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:

The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm – 55 kW at 3500 rpm).

The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.

Fuel tank: 160 gallons

Range? Not to sure about this.

Bow thrusters 10 hp.

 

The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that 60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to recharge. The car has a 90 kWh battery in the top model and a range of about 268 miles or 426 km and 713 lb-ft motor torque. This seems to be about 4 hours of driving time. Not enough to even get through a whole night. Of course ships can easily carry much bigger batteries.

 

I am also thinking that a system for a ship would not need the instant torque and quick bursts of speed that car needs. A slow endurance system is the best thing. This  would likely mean a big savings in power usage under way.

 

So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that so we could say 1200 watts at full sun. This does not even come close to being enough to run the 60 hp motors so it must come from the batteries and this means that changing times will be needed and this will be while under sail or at port.

 

I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not. Ideally I would do without it.

 

I am still in the dreaming phase, the brainstorming phase. Collecting the facts and finding the limits.

 

I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun time there is in between motoring times?

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

--

Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

Patrick McAneny
 

Douglas, If you decide to remove the engine from your Amel and rely on  an electric motor for propulsion, then I hope you do not intend to sell her.  I think it would be virtually impossible to sell to a new owner. I too am not a fan of motoring and  sail every inch I can. However in the real world there are days of no air or light air on the nose, with opposing current, times when weather systems are moving in, when one cannot afford to sit and wait for favorable conditions while unfavorable conditions move in. I could go on forever about situations and safety that requires reliable propulsion. Electric is an appealing idea, but better for now , left for boats making it off and on a mooring , not crossing oceans. Just my opinion .
Good Luck ,
Pat SM #123
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Knapp magick.crow@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Oct 7, 2015 8:48 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

 
Thanks for that link.

Main benefits would be to reduce or eliminate dependency on diesel fuel. This would both increase range and reduce dependency on good ports of call and reduce the price of running. Totally silent running would be nice too without fumes. I am also a person that loves nature and I hate seeing what we are doing to it in the name of getting more oil. Also at some point the oil will run out. It is just a matter of balancing tech with practicality and price. Solar is on the edge of becoming better than oil for cars and ships. 

If  we could even double the range of the ship (without sail) then that would be a huge benefit. New bottom coats that are being developed may also double range and eliminate toxic bottom paint. I would be happy to just loose the toxic paint.

Here is a pdf about it.
--
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

Douglas E Knapp DEK
 

This is the hydrophobic article that I was thinking of.
http://www.gizmag.com/nanostructures-hydrophobic-surface/38984/


On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 7:16 AM, ericmeury@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

What would be the point.  Many of the Electric propulsion boats have a diesel generator.


Are electric motors ready to replace diesels? - Ocean Navigator - September 2011
Are electric motors ready to replace diesels? - Ocean Navigator - September 2011
Are electric motors ready to replace diesels? Jan 22, 2013 A boat owner’s perspective on the state of electric propulsion BY DAVID E. MONCTON
Preview by Yahoo

 



The above couple has electric propulsion.  Range of 20nm but they have a honda gas generator to keep it charged.  

I really don't see any benefit.  The amel engine room is pretty insulated. 

What is the benefit you are after?




--
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Re: Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

Douglas E Knapp DEK
 

Thanks for that link.

Main benefits would be to reduce or eliminate dependency on diesel fuel. This would both increase range and reduce dependency on good ports of call and reduce the price of running. Totally silent running would be nice too without fumes. I am also a person that loves nature and I hate seeing what we are doing to it in the name of getting more oil. Also at some point the oil will run out. It is just a matter of balancing tech with practicality and price. Solar is on the edge of becoming better than oil for cars and ships. 

If  we could even double the range of the ship (without sail) then that would be a huge benefit. New bottom coats that are being developed may also double range and eliminate toxic bottom paint. I would be happy to just loose the toxic paint.

Here is a pdf about it.
--
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Re: Re-paint of rail and metal insert

peacock@...
 

We are also considering upgrading and painting the rub rail. I would like to put something in the groove such that it sticks out a little further than the rubber part, thus saving the rubber part from wear and tear. We were considering a UHMW (very durable plastic) strip. Is your adhesive metal strip thick enough for this? Can you give any more info about where you got it?

Thanks.
Tom Peacock
SM Aletes #240


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Red line edition

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Olivier & Derick
Thank you both for clearing this up as these vessels do look particularly nice with the white rub rail with stainless steel inserted into the groove on rub rail. Also noted that the Amel 55 has white rub rails too so in line with Amel's new styling. We won't be changing Island Pearls' rails yet, but may be tempted to do so now in future. 
Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, SM#332

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:01 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Derick,

no risk of water penetration as the (brown/red) GRP rub-rail is totally external. The brown rubber (or later white PVC) insert is not watertight either, this is why you can see small draining holes under the rub-rail.
Originally, with the SM technical documents, there was a cut (hand) drawing of the junction of deck and hull, where you can clearly see the set-up of this area.
Maybe someone could post a copy of this drawing?

Olivier.





On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 5:20 AM, "derickgates@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Colin,

I have posted to the photos section a picture of the stainless steel insert in the Red Line rub rail.  As you should be able to see, there are screws every foot or so.  I do not know about additional fixatives such as glue, etc.  Perhaps Joel or Olivier can shed some light on that.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava





--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Water ingress - lateral windows.

jgermain@...
 

Hello Gang,


Has anyone done the above?  If so, what is the procedure?


Thanks all.


Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM007


Re-paint of rail and metal insert

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

I took the liberty to change the Subject since the discussion is changing its way.

When we re-painted our rail, we bought self adhesive metal strips from a company that makes advertising boards for outside use. The company also made signs for boats.
We have had in place for a year now, and it still looks as new. So there is no reason to mount a stainless steel stripe and drill holes that could cause leakage.

/Ann-Sofie
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998 

Skickat från min iPad

7 okt. 2015 kl. 05:20 skrev derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Colin,


I have posted to the photos section a picture of the stainless steel insert in the Red Line rub rail.  As you should be able to see, there are screws every foot or so.  I do not know about additional fixatives such as glue, etc.  Perhaps Joel or Olivier can shed some light on that.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Red line edition

Beaute Olivier
 

Hi Derick,

no risk of water penetration as the (brown/red) GRP rub-rail is totally external. The brown rubber (or later white PVC) insert is not watertight either, this is why you can see small draining holes under the rub-rail.
Originally, with the SM technical documents, there was a cut (hand) drawing of the junction of deck and hull, where you can clearly see the set-up of this area.
Maybe someone could post a copy of this drawing?

Olivier.





On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 5:20 AM, "derickgates@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Colin,

I have posted to the photos section a picture of the stainless steel insert in the Red Line rub rail.  As you should be able to see, there are screws every foot or so.  I do not know about additional fixatives such as glue, etc.  Perhaps Joel or Olivier can shed some light on that.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava



Re: Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

ericmeury@...
 

What would be the point.  Many of the Electric propulsion boats have a diesel generator.

Are electric motors ready to replace diesels? - Ocean Navigator - September 2011

 



The above couple has electric propulsion.  Range of 20nm but they have a honda gas generator to keep it charged.  

I really don't see any benefit.  The amel engine room is pretty insulated. 

What is the benefit you are after?


Re: Maramu #105 - Cerulean Needing Davit Advice

ericmeury@...
 

Ironically, i just did the opposite of you.  I really disliked not being able to row and having to lug around a heaving engine.  

My Carib dinghy with a tahotsu engine 9.8 hp is for sale in Deltaville.  

I just purchased a nestinglite dinghy from craigslist.  Small world they guy i bought it from used to own an amel maramu.  

 


Re: Maramu #105 - Cerulean Needing Davit Advice

ericmeury@...
 

how ironic. 

I just bought a nesting dinghy because i don't like my Rib.  Want to Buy it


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Red line edition

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Colin,

I have posted to the photos section a picture of the stainless steel insert in the Red Line rub rail.  As you should be able to see, there are screws every foot or so.  I do not know about additional fixatives such as glue, etc.  Perhaps Joel or Olivier can shed some light on that.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Red line edition

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Derick

This is most interesting to hear as the stainless strip really does look good on the SM's.  A fellow SM owner here in Brisbane painted his rub rail white and inserted a ss rub strip recently. He hated the brown color and the stainless rail, particularly on the white looks very nice indeed.

From past discussions on this site I have avoided following as fitting this stainless strip requires inserting screws along the rub rail and there was past discussion about the risks to this - I think due to water penetration? From what I have observed with the bloke who did this there appears to be really is no risk of this at all as the screws are very short.

When Amel put the ss rub rail on was this done with screws and glue?

Colin, Island Pearl II
Amel 53, #332

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 9:13 AM, derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Not yet mentioned, Brava (of 2003 vintage) has a stainless steel strip inset into the middle of the rub rail. I believe this was an option that was not chosen often ($$$).  


Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: Red line edition

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Not yet mentioned, Brava (of 2003 vintage) has a stainless steel strip inset into the middle of the rub rail. I believe this was an option that was not chosen often ($$$).  

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Would you buy all electric no diesel Amel?

Douglas E Knapp DEK
 

Thank you Mr. Bossett for your perspective! I am not an engineer although I am good at math and worked as a programmer, I am working my way through the solution. Any help anyone can give is greatly appreciated.

From the super maramu 2000 user's manual:
The auxiliary engine is a YANMAR 4JH3-TE (44 kW at 2500 rpm – 55 kW at 3500 rpm).
The most efficient motoring's range is situated between 1500 and 2500 rpm.
Fuel tank: 160 gallons
Range? Not to sure about this.
Bow thrusters 10 hp.

The Tesla car puts out 259 hp front and 503 hp rear, so it seems to me that 60 should be quite doable, even 150 should be possible. The question is how long can it sustain that power output and how long will it take to recharge. The car has a 90 kWh battery in the top model and a range of about 268 miles or 426 km and 713 lb-ft motor torque. This seems to be about 4 hours of driving time. Not enough to even get through a whole night. Of course ships can easily carry much bigger batteries.

I am also thinking that a system for a ship would not need the instant torque and quick bursts of speed that car needs. A slow endurance system is the best thing. This  would likely mean a big savings in power usage under way.

So I was assuming having a good solar panel system. The Delos, a super maramu has a 600 watt system. Seem that it would not be hard to double that so we could say 1200 watts at full sun. This does not even come close to being enough to run the 60 hp motors so it must come from the batteries and this means that changing times will be needed and this will be while under sail or at port.

I was considering if it is possible to dump the diesel generator or not. Ideally I would do without it.

I am still in the dreaming phase, the brainstorming phase. Collecting the facts and finding the limits.

I am wondering how many hours under engine power is normal and how much sun time there is in between motoring times?

Thanks again for your input.

--
Douglas E Knapp, MSAOM, LAc.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Salt water intake

amelforme
 

Many SM 53 have a in line shut off valve in the salt water auxiliary feed, suppling items other than the engine, mounted on the forward engine room bulkhead. Not sure when this was made standard but I think it was around number 200.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 4:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Salt water intake

 

 

Yes a simple solution. just thought what could happen when out in rough weather and something like that happens then it would be very neet just to close a valve and have all the other functions running and fix it later when more convenient
Usually things break down at bad moments that, s atlases my experience
Paul SY KERPA SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Red line edition

Flavia Pozzolini
 

Bill,
Our SM is a 2004 while the one near us is a 2003 and it is still a red-line

Andrew

SM 441 Schiccherona 

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 04 ott 2015, alle ore 18:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> ha scritto:

 

Actually, Corian, the Comfort Pack and the 160 liter water maker were available before Red-Line, and are in SM BeBe #387, which is a 2003 model. 

The Furuno systems had moved to Navnet about the time of the Red Line, but Navnet wasn't necessarily added because of Red Line. I think that there are very little differences in the 2003 SM and Red line, other than the color of the rub rail, boot stripe and leather trim. The 2003 did not have Furuno Navnet because it really wasn't available at the time.

Bill
BeBe, 387



On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Schiccherona schiccherona@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

The red line edition refers to the last production for super maramu, namely 2003,2004 and few 2005 boats. It has some more implementations when compared with the 2000 edition. For istance the corian in the kitchen. The electronics etc. 
However the major differences you have to look for are the type of watermaker and the presence of the comfort pack.  

Fair wind

Andrew
Schiccherona SM 441


Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 04 ott 2015, alle ore 13:55, evastaffanpersson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> ha scritto:

 

I am not familiar with yahoo groups, so I am not quite sure how to find answers. I am sorry if this has been asked before.

We are in the process of buying a SM, and would like to know the differences between "red line edition" and "regular". I did not find the info on the Amel website, but please direct me to where I can find this info. Or if you could be so kind and tell me the main differences.

Thanks very much!
Eva & Staffan




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Salt water intake

Paul Osterberg
 

Yes a simple solution. just thought what could happen when out in rough weather and something like that happens then it would be very neet just to close a valve and have all the other functions running and fix it later when more convenient
Usually things break down at bad moments that, s atlases my experience
Paul SY KERPA SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Salt water intake

eric freedman