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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] aft lazarette hull plug

Duane Siegfri
 

Andrew,

Thanks for your reply.

I didn't find a mention of this plug in the Owners Manual.  Do I understand you to say it is meant to drain the aft lazarette? One just unscrews it, allowing the compartment to drain and then screw it back in?

Duane
Autohelm ST 7000 compatibility with Raymarine

Paul Osterberg
 

On our Amel SM 2000 from 1999 #259 we have an Autohelm ST7000 with two drive units, the roto drive direct behind the steering wheel , and the linear drive on the quadrant.

We would like to have a full dual system. i.e.

a second control unit.                        Is Raytheon Raymarine ST7000+ Autopilot Control Unit compatible?

a second course computer 

a Gyro plus, today we only have the flux gate compass.

I’m looking at eBay and have found some Raymarine gears that might work with the Autohelm ST700.

Is there any of you who know what Raymarine things that correspond to the above? 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa Amel SM#259
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] aft lazarette hull plug

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

One our SM the plug is just behind the bulkhead on the starboard side in the lazarette in the well where the outboard propeller tends to sit when it is in the lazarette – it is just above the waterline and allows drainage of the lazarette. The plug had a plastic vertical fin to hold to turn, but we found this twisted off and so we fixed a piece of wood screwed from above to give a better hold of the plug. I think someone mentioned in a previous post they found that water came in from around the bolts holding the bumper on when under way and so they re-seating the bumper with sealant which cured the problem.

 

Andrew

 

 

Ronpische

SM2k 472

Canet en Roussillion, France

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 5:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] aft lazarette hull plug

 

 

I'm getting some leakage into the aft lazarette (several quarts over a two month period). I saw some discussion here a few months ago (and can't find it now) about a drain plug on the starboard side in the aft lazarette.  There is a round "thing" that is likely the plug on stb. and near the forward bulkhead.

How does one go about replacing it?  Is this a spare part from Amel?

Why would Amel put a drain plug below the water line? 

Duane
Wanderer -  SM#477

 

 

by the way I was curious about the origin of the name "Lazarette", and this is from Wikipedia:


The name derives from the biblical story of "Lazarus". On the old square-rigged sailing ships it was located in the bow of the ship. The original purpose was to store the bodies of important passengers or crew who had died on the voyage, (lesser seamen would be buried at sea). It was a large locker obviously, and was situated at the bow in order that the stench of rotting flesh was blown away from the vessel rather than across the decks. (The wind cannot come from the front of the ship whilst sailing.) All that remains from these origins is that it is still generally the largest locker on a boat, and it's still known as the "Lazarette".

 
aft lazarette hull plug

Duane Siegfri
 

I'm getting some leakage into the aft lazarette (several quarts over a two month period). I saw some discussion here a few months ago (and can't find it now) about a drain plug on the starboard side in the aft lazarette.  There is a round "thing" that is likely the plug on stb. and near the forward bulkhead.

How does one go about replacing it?  Is this a spare part from Amel?

Why would Amel put a drain plug below the water line? 

Duane
Wanderer -  SM#477



by the way I was curious about the origin of the name "Lazarette", and this is from Wikipedia:


The name derives from the biblical story of "Lazarus". On the old square-rigged sailing ships it was located in the bow of the ship. The original purpose was to store the bodies of important passengers or crew who had died on the voyage, (lesser seamen would be buried at sea). It was a large locker obviously, and was situated at the bow in order that the stench of rotting flesh was blown away from the vessel rather than across the decks. (The wind cannot come from the front of the ship whilst sailing.) All that remains from these origins is that it is still generally the largest locker on a boat, and it's still known as the "Lazarette".
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to remove steering wheel

Olivier Beaute
 

Hi Alain,

bear in mind that Peregrinus wheel is not made of stainless steel (but aluminum and/or fiberglass) and may not stand the claws of the puller...

Olivier
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to remove steering wheel

alainfeuillet@...
 

Good evening,
an altenative to Olivier approach is to go to your neighbour mechanic shop and borrow a big bearing puller, preferably but not mandatorily three legged, for 2 minutes. Without effort and with no risk of damaging thread and nut, you will extract the wheel. Done two years ago in Marmaris on Pilgrim hull number 26.
Fair winds.
Alain.
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water ingress near mizzen mast.

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

One suggestion is that the small amount of water that will get inside the mast will run down along the wires, and the wires are inside a channel right where you are discussing. It is easy to inspect the channel. Open the channel by removing the three wood screws on the piece of wood that is below the port. This piece of mahogany plywood should be about 14cm high and about 130cm long. Remove it and inspect...if it is dry place plenty of paper towels in this are to inspect later. There is also an inspection port inside the head on the bulkhead located near the upper right corner of the mirror (facing). Check it out and do the same.

If you added something to the mizzen, it might be possible that the entry hole needs calking. I just added a speaker/fog horn wired through the the hole in the mizzen that the radar wires go through. I watched the professional run the wires, then stopped him from just coming down. I sent him up some silicone sealer to seal the hole...You have to supervise everyone, but you know that.

If the leak is appearing near the floor level, it is possible that the fiberglass floor needs re-calking to the wall. If you replaced the wall covering, be sure to re-caulk to the fiberglass pan..

Bill
BeBe 387

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 2:08 PM, jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Gang,


We are quite anal about keeping 100% 0f the water outside...


We have succeeded in fixing all leaks so far but now we have a mysterious entry outside the aft heads at the corner with the bulkhead.  We have an aft facing mirror filling the bulkhead from port of the watertight door to the fore/aft partition to enclose the shower.


Does anyone have suggestions?


Kind regards,


Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM 007
Water ingress near mizzen mast.

jgermain@...
 

Hello Gang,


We are quite anal about keeping 100% 0f the water outside...


We have succeeded in fixing all leaks so far but now we have a mysterious entry outside the aft heads at the corner with the bulkhead.  We have an aft facing mirror filling the bulkhead from port of the watertight door to the fore/aft partition to enclose the shower.


Does anyone have suggestions?


Kind regards,


Jean-Pierre Germain

SY Eleuthera, SM 007
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] How to remove steering wheel

Olivier Beaute
 

Good Morning (didn't find your name),

first remove the stainless steel center. Then undo the shaft nut until it just reaches the end of the shaft.
Then you need three hands: one person is pulling (strongly) the wheel aft while the other is knocking the nut with a steel hammer (350 g). If you have a bronze wedge, put it between the hammer and the nut. Don't be shy...especially if it's the first time you remove the wheel.
The purpose of knocking the nut instead of the shaft is to prevent damaging the threads.

Have a good day

Olivier



On Sunday, November 29, 2015 9:16 PM, "svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello,

We are having our steering wheel re-upholstered.  Is there any particular trick to remove it to have this job done?

Our wheel has the shiny center cap with Henri Amel's signature.  There are two screws on the shiny center cap.

Thank you in advance,


Peregrinus
Super Maramu 2000 #350 (2002)
Odissey Marina, Seville, Spain
Re: "Must Have" spares and preparations

jjjk12s@...
 


Eamonn,

 

The risk  of anaerobic crevise corrosion of stainless steel where water collects in the lower swages is one of the reasons to consider re rigging at that age. It must be at least at the very end of its working life and I believe many insurance companies would specify the standing rigging should be younger. If you can find a good rigger somewhere on your planned route and fit that in your cruise schedule sooner rather than later do it. Otherwise very careful inspections (difficult to check the forestay) and worrying when the Mistral blows....

 

We sailed from along the French Med coast a few years ago on our way from Greece to the UK and absolutely loved it. I recon you are already in one of the best cruising areas in the world. I am very envious as we didn't see much of Corsica and missed Sardinia so need to come back. I also used to live in the Outer Hebrides on the west coast of Scotland and there's a lot to be said for Med weather! Unless you are a particular fan of hill walking and malt whisky don't be in too much of a rush:)

 

A large economic (but bleak) place to keep a boat was Port St Louis. Maybe consider it if you need to leave the boat over winter in that area.

 

I also have my old CQR as a second anchor but I am a fan of an aluminium Fortress as a kedge as it is light enough to handle in a dinghy.

 

A plotter screen easily viewable in sunlight at the helm is invaluable. You have lots of options. An Ipad with Navionics is great and really cheap solution if you already have an Ipad. A more permanent dedicated plotter is better. One with an inbuilt aerial is really easy to fit, or go more complicated with integrated instruments. The Maxsea great for the chart table. A weather proof computer at the helm linked to your computer would probably work out more expensive and less usable.

 

I didn't think small 2 strokes are still available new in Europe but if you can find one I don't think you can go wrong with a small Yamaha. 

 

Storm sails are notorious for never being used. For bad weather insurance a drogue is definately worth considering though. 

 

Best wishes

John

 

 
How to remove steering wheel

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Hello,


We are having our steering wheel re-upholstered.  Is there any particular trick to remove it to have this job done?


Our wheel has the shiny center cap with Henri Amel's signature.  There are two screws on the shiny center cap.


Thank you in advance,



Peregrinus

Super Maramu 2000 #350 (2002)

Odissey Marina, Seville, Spain
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] "Must Have" spares and preparations

eamonn.washington@...
 

Wow

I am overwhelmed with the advice, great stuff.  I never heard of racor filters or antal car and did not know I should vacuum pack spares, etc.

I considered adding a folding bicycle but am stunned by the spares list from Alexandre, including 14 spare tubes & 6 tires?  Was your bike on deck the whole time?

I am taking all the advice on board, including the sensible get to know the boat better in local waters for some of the improvements I was thinking of.  Also now I am questioning the wisdom of fresh water for the chain; just leave the sea water to do the work.  I might add a second cockpit water connection instead with a longer hose than the deck shower for cleaning the deck ... a much cheaper option.

My plans are in 2016 to move the boat from St Raphael to somewhere else in the Mediterranean, and take 2 months (May & June) time out for that.  Besides a few weeks more in 2016, my real plans start in 2017 where I intend to live aboard for 4 to 6 months every year for the foreseeable future (10+ years).  2018 should see us around Ireland/Scotland and probably also cross the Atlantic from the Canaries via the Cape Verde islands later the same year.  Depending on how well that goes, maybe return to Europe after a season in the Caribbean or start a slow odyssey across the Pacific, maybe even living longer per year aboard.  Adding a SCUBA compressor before the Caribbean is also on the list.

I am still in 2 minds about replacing what appears to be good standing rigging, but yes if it should be done while I am the boat custodian then rather sooner than later.  I'll think about it for a year.

I printed out the 7 pages and am going through every suggestion in detail, and learning a lot along the way.  Many thanks for dedicating some time to guide me.  I hope to be able to repay it some day!

By the way, I have 80m chain that is 10mm, plus another 8m 10mm chain for the second anchor.  I'll keep the CQR as a stern anchor when necessary.  And I'll probably not buy a storm sail; a bit of genoa and mizzen should do it from the safety of the cockpit.

Eamonn
SM #151 Travel Bug
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: The Survey

J Wagam <jwagam@...>
 

All,

Thank you all for the feedback. It has made me step back and reassess things, though I will likely move forward. I am not buying a boat as an investment that I expect a return on. I have flipped boats for profit in the past but I see this as a my "forever" boat. I actually want a boat that has been thoroughly upgraded and I know a full history.

If I decide to move forward, I will keep a detailed cost breakdown and happily share it with the group.

Cheers
Jay

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 9:54 AM, jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jay,

 

I've done plenty of work on my 1981 Maramu in the last 4 years, Engine and engine room, transmission, new shaft, fitted a water maker, new cutlass bearing, prop, fridge, furnishings, cooker, headlining, partial wiring, new electronics etc. A previous owner replaced all the deck gear with Harken and added new sails plus other jobs like anchor winch.

 

I can see your thinking and appreciate the satisfaction of doing something up - but this really does look like a mistake in the making and you should keep looking for your project boat.

 

Best wishes

John Maramu #91, 1981 Popeye
Re: The Survey

jjjk12s@...
 

Jay,

 

I've done plenty of work on my 1981 Maramu in the last 4 years, Engine and engine room, transmission, new shaft, fitted a water maker, new cutlass bearing, prop, fridge, furnishings, cooker, headlining, partial wiring, new electronics etc. A previous owner replaced all the deck gear with Harken and added new sails plus other jobs like anchor winch.

 

I can see your thinking and appreciate the satisfaction of doing something up - but this really does look like a mistake in the making and you should keep looking for your project boat.

 

Best wishes

John Maramu #91, 1981 Popeye
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Survey

Patrick McAneny
 

Jay,  Remember you asked for owner's opinion's, and even if they are not what you were hoping for, they are offered in your interest to save you from making what could be a costly mistake. Remember, that everyone that responded owns an Amel and has done much work on their own boats and realize how many unforeseen expenses there are, and how they add up. Its great to try to itemize a budget , I have done the same many times , they are not worth the paper they are composed on. It is impossible to foresee all or even half the costs , especially if the boat is older and not in good condition. On a lighter note , I live on the Sassafras River in Maryland  ,only an hour from Wilmington ,Del., so if in the future if I can assist you in some way or if it would help to look at another Amel to answer some questions , contact me.
Again Good Luck,
Pat SM Shenanigans
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sat, Nov 28, 2015 10:29 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Survey

 
Jay...Bill is right on in his summary. Do yourself a favor and walk away. 

Steve,
Aloha SM72

On Nov 28, 2015, at 11:13, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Jay, you are about 50-100k light in your estimate. I know that you don't want to hear it, but it is going to cost you twice your estimate. In the end you will have an Amel that no serious buyer of Amel will ever buy from you.

So, you asked and I am going to tell you that you are absolutely wrong. That boat is worth less than zero.
  1. New wiring called for in the survey, batteries, generator cannot be done for less than $15,000, and that is assuming the battery chargers, alternators and battery monitor is working...you should plan on $25,000
  2. Is the cargo ship free? Plan $10-20k, you will need hauling to from, cradle, loading, insurance (how are you going to buy ins for that boat? The cargo carrier will insist on it).
  3. What is the condition of the motor? Plan on a new one
  4. What is the condition of the transmission? Plan on a new one
  5. You failed to mention a si ngle pump, do you know how many are on the boat? Add $3,500
  6. What about the rigging? Add $5,000
  7. What about running rigging? Add $3,000
  8. What about sails? Add $6,000
  9. I am surprised that you can get a full set of electronics for $5,000 - plan $15,000
  10. What about insurance and storage while you are doing the work? Add $500/month for 3 years = 18,000
  11. By your own math you will have $150,000 in this boat not including the things above.
  12. Even if you do a huge amount of the labor, you are going to have $200,000 to 250,000 and you will own a boat that has been De-Amel'd and has serious structural damage in its history.
Why would you put yourself and others around you through so much crap and unknown crap when you could own a real Amel for less?

I do not get it.

Bill
BeBe 387


On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 1:48 PM, J Wagam jwagam@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
All,

I really appreciate the feedback. I would be interested to know if this is the same boat that has been sitting per your last note. The owners are on the island and have reportedly been sailing the boat up until earlier this year. Other than that, I am not dissuaded. I am looking for a project boat with "good bones." At $80K this boat seems like a great candidate.

My rationale is that I can replace all the systems and know what I have. Every boat I have owned has hidden secrets that need to be fixed. On any boat I buy, the seacocks, electronics and all rigging will need to be replaced. I also would prefer to wire new LED on my own. The biggest concerns I have from the survey are the engine and headliner. There was a jug of used oil tipped over next to the motor and I thought that may have leaked into the bilge.

Without any major surprises, the plan would be to get it to Delaware (where I live) by cargo ship then put about $40K in parts into her and $20K of professional labor (like riggers). My labor is free. A quick punch list with WAG costs:

  1. Rewire any poor areas and install LED, GFI & USB plugs throughout, and smoke/CM alarms, new 12v system with solar and wind (maybe a genset) ($10,000 or $15,000 with genset)
  2. Seacocks and hoses ($3500)
  3. Refinish sole ($2000)
  4. Scrape hull, repair previous damage, barrier coat ($1500)
  5. Paint deck and topsides ($5000)
  6. New countertops in kitchen and bath ($1000)
  7. Install composting heads and small blackwater tanks for "wet" ($4000)
  8. Replace refrigerator with top loader ($2000)
  9. Fix all issues on survey (big ones like steering gear are concerning) ($3000)
  10. Pull shaft, replace everything back to transmission, feathering prop ($5000)
  11. New electronics ($5000)
  12. New rigging (TBD)
  13. Headliner (??)
  14. HVAC ($3000)
  15. Replace motor furling with manual.... maybe (I know - don't unamel and amel) ($5000)
  16. Windvane (if I can find a used one)
The boat's interior wood is in mostly good shape. For a 30 year old boat I was actually very happy with the few soft spots and mostly dry hull.

Cheers
Jay

On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi Jay,

I purchased a 1992 SM in Guatemala in early 2014. It was in far better condition than the boat you are looking at, and had some newer equipment such as new sails and standing rigging.  With that said, it required a fairly serious refit, and a lot of updating. We sailed her to Florida a few weeks after the purchase, and I spent more than a year doing most of the refit myself. It was a lot of work, and a lot of money, but we have a very nice finished product, and have recently arrived in Puerto Rico with the boat. At the end of the day, we now have a nice boat, but I could not sell her for what we have invested. The benefit is that I learned a lot about the boat during our refit, she has mostly new and updated equipment, and we intend to sail her for 10 years, which makes me less concerned with immediate resell value

The boat you are looking at makes me feel tired and broke just thinking about bringing her up to speed. I guarantee you that their will be a lot so serious problems which the surveyor did not find. This boat is not a good investment in your time or money. You can find a better deal if you keep looking, and if it were me, I'd run not walk away from this boat. 

Best of luck with finding the right boat. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Fajardo, Puerto Rico
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Inverter for Microwave/Outlets

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Ofer, thanks for the confirmation. I have decided to install my new Victron 3-kVA inverter in the engine room, just as Amel would have done if you ordered the Mastervolt inverter option. While I could make some room in the locker under the table, it would require relocating the existing 800W inverter and the DC-DC converters. I am sure you did it just fine, but at least in my case it would be quite crowded. Plus I would have to run some serious battery cables through the nav area down to the battery compartment and install a large fuse block and AC breaker somewhere - not going to be easy with all the wires already there and my solar/wind/hydrogenerator regulators in the battery area. I also think I would have to cut out additional holes to feed those big DC wires, and I do not want to do that. It will be far easier to install in the engine room and route the DC cables with the existing ones. Also the AC connections will be easier to the panel above the sink.

I want to update the boat but stay with the way Amel would install these systems, and that means installation in the engine compartment on the port side. As I said, I will have a couple of tweaks (most specifically a manual versus automatic transfer switch). That will allow simultaneous shore power feed to the battery chargers while still using the inverter in the US. All else will be per the Amel factory schematics.

Similarly, I am installing an isolation transformer for use in the US, where the power source is often 120V rather than 230V or 240V. Again, I am installing it per the options shown on the Amel electrical drawings that came with the boat. The only difference there is that I am adding another manual transfer switch in the lazarette. Amel simply joined the shore feeders together. That would work, but it would require manually switching off the unused incoming shore power breaker to avoid the potential for creating a "hot" inlet, something you might forget to do.

Thanks again for the advice.
Jamie Wendell
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 2:39 PM, "ofer magen ofermagen@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Jamie and Wolfgang,
The 2500W and the 800W inverters are under the table. There is space enough.
The environment is less challenging then in the engine room.
Regards,
Ofer Magen


Re: Hawse pipe replacement

zerotocruising@...
 

Hi Ross.

The pipe that I am referring to is located in the starboard bow deck locker. It actually terminates at the top of the anchor locker, although if you stick your fingers up inside the hole that the chain comes through, you can feel it.

Since posting this I have acquired a 3 foot length of 3" diameter fiberglass tube. My plan is to use it to replace the crumbing iron pipe that is in there now, glassing it in at the top and bottom.

Mike
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Survey

Stephen Davis
 

Jay...Bill is right on in his summary. Do yourself a favor and walk away. 

Steve,
Aloha SM72

On Nov 28, 2015, at 11:13, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jay, you are about 50-100k light in your estimate. I know that you don't want to hear it, but it is going to cost you twice your estimate. In the end you will have an Amel that no serious buyer of Amel will ever buy from you.

So, you asked and I am going to tell you that you are absolutely wrong. That boat is worth less than zero.
  1. New wiring called for in the survey, batteries, generator cannot be done for less than $15,000, and that is assuming the battery chargers, alternators and battery monitor is working...you should plan on $25,000
  2. Is the cargo ship free? Plan $10-20k, you will need hauling to from, cradle, loading, insurance (how are you going to buy ins for that boat? The cargo carrier will insist on it).
  3. What is the condition of the motor? Plan on a new one
  4. What is the condition of the transmission? Plan on a new one
  5. You failed to mention a single pump, do you know how many are on the boat? Add $3,500
  6. What about the rigging? Add $5,000
  7. What about running rigging? Add $3,000
  8. What about sails? Add $6,000
  9. I am surprised that you can get a full set of electronics for $5,000 - plan $15,000
  10. What about insurance and storage while you are doing the work? Add $500/month for 3 years = 18,000
  11. By your own math you will have $150,000 in this boat not including the things above.
  12. Even if you do a huge amount of the labor, you are going to have $200,000 to 250,000 and you will own a boat that has been De-Amel'd and has serious structural damage in its history.
Why would you put yourself and others around you through so much crap and unknown crap when you could own a real Amel for less?

I do not get it.

Bill
BeBe 387


On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 1:48 PM, J Wagam jwagam@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

All,

I really appreciate the feedback. I would be interested to know if this is the same boat that has been sitting per your last note. The owners are on the island and have reportedly been sailing the boat up until earlier this year. Other than that, I am not dissuaded. I am looking for a project boat with "good bones." At $80K this boat seems like a great candidate.

My rationale is that I can replace all the systems and know what I have. Every boat I have owned has hidden secrets that need to be fixed. On any boat I buy, the seacocks, electronics and all rigging will need to be replaced. I also would prefer to wire new LED on my own. The biggest concerns I have from the survey are the engine and headliner. There was a jug of used oil tipped over next to the motor and I thought that may have leaked into the bilge.

Without any major surprises, the plan would be to get it to Delaware (where I live) by cargo ship then put about $40K in parts into her and $20K of professional labor (like riggers). My labor is free. A quick punch list with WAG costs:

  1. Rewire any poor areas and install LED, GFI & USB plugs throughout, and smoke/CM alarms, new 12v system with solar and wind (maybe a genset) ($10,000 or $15,000 with genset)
  2. Seacocks and hoses ($3500)
  3. Refinish sole ($2000)
  4. Scrape hull, repair previous damage, barrier coat ($1500)
  5. Paint deck and topsides ($5000)
  6. New countertops in kitchen and bath ($1000)
  7. Install composting heads and small blackwater tanks for "wet" ($4000)
  8. Replace refrigerator with top loader ($2000)
  9. Fix all issues on survey (big ones like steering gear are concerning) ($3000)
  10. Pull shaft, replace everything back to transmission, feathering prop ($5000)
  11. New electronics ($5000)
  12. New rigging (TBD)
  13. Headliner (??)
  14. HVAC ($3000)
  15. Replace motor furling with manual.... maybe (I know - don't unamel and amel) ($5000)
  16. Windvane (if I can find a used one)
The boat's interior wood is in mostly good shape. For a 30 year old boat I was actually very happy with the few soft spots and mostly dry hull.

Cheers
Jay

On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Jay,


I purchased a 1992 SM in Guatemala in early 2014. It was in far better condition than the boat you are looking at, and had some newer equipment such as new sails and standing rigging.  With that said, it required a fairly serious refit, and a lot of updating. We sailed her to Florida a few weeks after the purchase, and I spent more than a year doing most of the refit myself. It was a lot of work, and a lot of money, but we have a very nice finished product, and have recently arrived in Puerto Rico with the boat. At the end of the day, we now have a nice boat, but I could not sell her for what we have invested. The benefit is that I learned a lot about the boat during our refit, she has mostly new and updated equipment, and we intend to sail her for 10 years, which makes me less concerned with immediate resell value

The boat you are looking at makes me feel tired and broke just thinking about bringing her up to speed. I guarantee you that their will be a lot so serious problems which the surveyor did not find. This boat is not a good investment in your time or money. You can find a better deal if you keep looking, and if it were me, I'd run not walk away from this boat. 

Best of luck with finding the right boat. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Fajardo, Puerto Rico
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Survey

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Jay, you are about 50-100k light in your estimate. I know that you don't want to hear it, but it is going to cost you twice your estimate. In the end you will have an Amel that no serious buyer of Amel will ever buy from you.

So, you asked and I am going to tell you that you are absolutely wrong. That boat is worth less than zero.
  1. New wiring called for in the survey, batteries, generator cannot be done for less than $15,000, and that is assuming the battery chargers, alternators and battery monitor is working...you should plan on $25,000
  2. Is the cargo ship free? Plan $10-20k, you will need hauling to from, cradle, loading, insurance (how are you going to buy ins for that boat? The cargo carrier will insist on it).
  3. What is the condition of the motor? Plan on a new one
  4. What is the condition of the transmission? Plan on a new one
  5. You failed to mention a single pump, do you know how many are on the boat? Add $3,500
  6. What about the rigging? Add $5,000
  7. What about running rigging? Add $3,000
  8. What about sails? Add $6,000
  9. I am surprised that you can get a full set of electronics for $5,000 - plan $15,000
  10. What about insurance and storage while you are doing the work? Add $500/month for 3 years = 18,000
  11. By your own math you will have $150,000 in this boat not including the things above.
  12. Even if you do a huge amount of the labor, you are going to have $200,000 to 250,000 and you will own a boat that has been De-Amel'd and has serious structural damage in its history.
Why would you put yourself and others around you through so much crap and unknown crap when you could own a real Amel for less?

I do not get it.

Bill
BeBe 387


On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 1:48 PM, J Wagam jwagam@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

All,

I really appreciate the feedback. I would be interested to know if this is the same boat that has been sitting per your last note. The owners are on the island and have reportedly been sailing the boat up until earlier this year. Other than that, I am not dissuaded. I am looking for a project boat with "good bones." At $80K this boat seems like a great candidate.

My rationale is that I can replace all the systems and know what I have. Every boat I have owned has hidden secrets that need to be fixed. On any boat I buy, the seacocks, electronics and all rigging will need to be replaced. I also would prefer to wire new LED on my own. The biggest concerns I have from the survey are the engine and headliner. There was a jug of used oil tipped over next to the motor and I thought that may have leaked into the bilge.

Without any major surprises, the plan would be to get it to Delaware (where I live) by cargo ship then put about $40K in parts into her and $20K of professional labor (like riggers). My labor is free. A quick punch list with WAG costs:

  1. Rewire any poor areas and install LED, GFI & USB plugs throughout, and smoke/CM alarms, new 12v system with solar and wind (maybe a genset) ($10,000 or $15,000 with genset)
  2. Seacocks and hoses ($3500)
  3. Refinish sole ($2000)
  4. Scrape hull, repair previous damage, barrier coat ($1500)
  5. Paint deck and topsides ($5000)
  6. New countertops in kitchen and bath ($1000)
  7. Install composting heads and small blackwater tanks for "wet" ($4000)
  8. Replace refrigerator with top loader ($2000)
  9. Fix all issues on survey (big ones like steering gear are concerning) ($3000)
  10. Pull shaft, replace everything back to transmission, feathering prop ($5000)
  11. New electronics ($5000)
  12. New rigging (TBD)
  13. Headliner (??)
  14. HVAC ($3000)
  15. Replace motor furling with manual.... maybe (I know - don't unamel and amel) ($5000)
  16. Windvane (if I can find a used one)
The boat's interior wood is in mostly good shape. For a 30 year old boat I was actually very happy with the few soft spots and mostly dry hull.

Cheers
Jay

On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Jay,


I purchased a 1992 SM in Guatemala in early 2014. It was in far better condition than the boat you are looking at, and had some newer equipment such as new sails and standing rigging.  With that said, it required a fairly serious refit, and a lot of updating. We sailed her to Florida a few weeks after the purchase, and I spent more than a year doing most of the refit myself. It was a lot of work, and a lot of money, but we have a very nice finished product, and have recently arrived in Puerto Rico with the boat. At the end of the day, we now have a nice boat, but I could not sell her for what we have invested. The benefit is that I learned a lot about the boat during our refit, she has mostly new and updated equipment, and we intend to sail her for 10 years, which makes me less concerned with immediate resell value

The boat you are looking at makes me feel tired and broke just thinking about bringing her up to speed. I guarantee you that their will be a lot so serious problems which the surveyor did not find. This boat is not a good investment in your time or money. You can find a better deal if you keep looking, and if it were me, I'd run not walk away from this boat. 

Best of luck with finding the right boat. 

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Fajardo, Puerto Rico
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Cleaning Anchor Chain

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

I think if you check out "Hot-Dip Galvanizing" and see that this process creates a thicker coating of zinc and because it is thicker, it will last longer than zinc plating.  Additionally, the cost of hot-dip is higher than simple zinc coating which looks pretty and smooth. You are an engineer...check it out and I am sure that you will find that in the hot-dip process there is only a certain amount of zinc that will adhere to the steel. 

So, it really boils down to this:
  1. You don't want the pretty well-formed (plated) chain because it does not have much zinc.
  2. You not want any chain that originated in China
  3. Make sure that you buy the correct spec of 10mm (3/8") chain either DIN or ISO. The links are a different size and DIN will not work in an ISO gypsy. You probably have ISO.
  4. You want to buy from a trusted dealer that will assure you of origin and tested breaking strengths  
  5. You want to be very suspect of anything that is too cheap
  6. And, I strongly suggest to never ever trust Cruiser's Forum. There are some people there that have made thousands of postings...they have read every sailing book possible and know how to Google search. They may own a boat, but have they have no real experience. Cruiser's Forum allows them to fake experience and gain stature and credibility even though they really know nothing. I feel sorry for those very sick people, but it is what it is.
Bill
BeBe 387

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 12:29 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Drew & Lili,


We've just bought the boat recently, so not much anchoring yet.  We have a freshwater hose connection under the helm seat, so that's a good idea for a muddy bottom.  

Now that the chain is clean, on inspection it looks mostly good, but there are no markings on it which concerns me.  It seems most chain intended for anchoring is marked with the grade of chain so I wonder...

The gyspy is marked for (Lofrans Tigres)  Ø 10 - 3/8HT / P30 and it fits well so maybe it is HT or Proof Coil?  There is a significant difference in the capacity of HT vs PC (PC is about half the working load limit of HT).  Now I'm thinking of just replacing it.  

On CruisersForum there is some disatisfaction with Acco chain (galvanizing has a short life) and several recommend Maggi chain.  Anyone have a recommendation on chain manufacturers?

Duane
 
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