Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

Well, I have separated all the 220AC ground wires at the 220 box in the galley and at the 220 boxes in the engine room. I found that the output cable from the generator is grounded to the generator case, and thus, to the bonding system. The other end of that cable goes to the automatic switch that chooses generator over shore power, where it is connected to all other 220 grounds via the output from the switch.
This violates my understanding that the 220AC ground should NOT be connected to the bonding system. Now what????

Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

karkauai
 

What a bummer!  My heart goes out to you, Jamie.

I've never heard of this happening on another Amel.  Has anyone else?  If not, it's hard to blame it on a design flaw.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy 


On Dec 2, 2015, at 7:04 PM, ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Trevor, trust me I am well aware of the risks of cranking a no-start engine with sea water being drawn in. I was very careful to avoid water buildup in the muffler and exhaust at all times.


The engine would not start a week after it had run for 4 days, and that could not have been caused by excessive cranking. I did not try to start it in the interim, and when I did I carefully drained the muffler or shut off the raw water intake valve after a few attempts to get it going. And I kept draining it periodically as we tested and tested. If it had filled up with water during that time, the engine would have seized. I have seen engines do that before, and it is almost like having a dead battery. The engine will not even turn over. In my case here, the engine has always cranked just fine but never even coughed after the run up from Florida in June.

My service guy suggested that it could have been a long time in the making (possibly from weak compression) and it could have gotten worse during the trip up from Florida. I ran it fairly hard during the trip after the sea trial problems, which obviously would have increased exhaust back pressure and reduced the exhaust efficiency at higher RPM, especially if the engine compression was not up to par. He suggested, as well, that sitting for a week with any sort of "backwash" water (even heavy vapor if you will) could have caused it to fail. Again, short of tearing the engine down, he cannot say for sure. But we have ruled out every other possibility we can think of, including all those who have offered suggestions and lent support from the group. I am out of options now. There is nothing else to test or try.

I do not want to de-Amel my boat (I have been trying to keep to the design philosophy Henri set in place in all that I do), but I do need to ensure that water does not get into the engine in the future. If that means a bit of rework of the exhaust as I install my new engine, well then I need to do that for my boat. No one and no engineers are correct all the time. And, as you know, each boat is different in how it behaves. I have to deal with what I have. A new engine is expensive but clearly not an undesirable thing..............

Thanks for the support.
Jamie




 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Jamie,
         I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply.
Thank you.
Will keep my fingers crossed that it all goes well.
Good luck.
Trevor


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

ms42phantom54@...
 

Trevor, trust me I am well aware of the risks of cranking a no-start engine with sea water being drawn in. I was very careful to avoid water buildup in the muffler and exhaust at all times.

The engine would not start a week after it had run for 4 days, and that could not have been caused by excessive cranking. I did not try to start it in the interim, and when I did I carefully drained the muffler or shut off the raw water intake valve after a few attempts to get it going. And I kept draining it periodically as we tested and tested. If it had filled up with water during that time, the engine would have seized. I have seen engines do that before, and it is almost like having a dead battery. The engine will not even turn over. In my case here, the engine has always cranked just fine but never even coughed after the run up from Florida in June.

My service guy suggested that it could have been a long time in the making (possibly from weak compression) and it could have gotten worse during the trip up from Florida. I ran it fairly hard during the trip after the sea trial problems, which obviously would have increased exhaust back pressure and reduced the exhaust efficiency at higher RPM, especially if the engine compression was not up to par. He suggested, as well, that sitting for a week with any sort of "backwash" water (even heavy vapor if you will) could have caused it to fail. Again, short of tearing the engine down, he cannot say for sure. But we have ruled out every other possibility we can think of, including all those who have offered suggestions and lent support from the group. I am out of options now. There is nothing else to test or try.

I do not want to de-Amel my boat (I have been trying to keep to the design philosophy Henri set in place in all that I do), but I do need to ensure that water does not get into the engine in the future. If that means a bit of rework of the exhaust as I install my new engine, well then I need to do that for my boat. No one and no engineers are correct all the time. And, as you know, each boat is different in how it behaves. I have to deal with what I have. A new engine is expensive but clearly not an undesirable thing..............

Thanks for the support.
Jamie




 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Jamie,
          That is just about the worst result possible. You have enough expense in front of you, before you start to re-engineer Amel re. the exhaust etc. could you ask your technician to asses just how much of that damage would be as a result of all the cranking that has gone on trying to start the engine.
If the the engine wasn't starting the raw water had to keep building up in the exhaust and backing up to the engine. There have been thousands of marine engines - especially in power boats destroyed that way.
At least you now have a fair idea of what you are dealing with regarding the engine, I would respectfully suggest to review the suggestions re. the exhaust system.
Best wishes,
Trevor

Seafever
SM 425
Mexico


Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Duane Siegfri
 

James,

I'm glad you finally found the problem, it had to be a trial!  My sympathies on the new engine.  If possible it would be great if you could post a few photos of the new muffler arrangement.

You have me wondering if the other Super Maramu owners here have had any issues?  The SM Owners Manual warns against this issue and recommends starting the engine twice a day and running for a short period to clear any water in the exhaust hose.

Comments anyone?

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

By the way, as you know I have been unable to start my engine since I left Florida in June. Today my outfit of choice here in Annapolis (Bay Shore) finally agreed to help and ran a whole bunch of engine tests (verified the pressure sensor, crank sensor, and injectors, etc.). After much head scratching, it appears that raw water from the exhaust system has been slowly migrating back into the intercooler, thereby injecting salt water into the intake manifold. Over time, that has likely caused valve seat damage, piston damage, and even cylinder wall damage. Without taking the engine apart we cannot prove that, but there are salt crystals and corrosion at the mixer fittings adjacent to the turbo. It should be dry. My mechanic (this time a really good one who really investigated the problem) felt the exhaust hose was mounted too high with a lot of resistance. He also felt the muffler was too small, and the type installed is apparently prone to backup over time. I don't blame anyone really, but it is a lesson learned (although an expensive one for sure).

I will be installing a new engine and addressing the installation issues to ensure this sort of thing does not happen again. We will be installing a "drum type" Vetus muffler with a short exhaust hose directly to the outlet on the port side. The one that loops up and over the engine wall is not good. Not sure if you want to investigate your's, but I can see how water could "bounce" back into the engine if the exhaust system is not breathing freely.





On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:34 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Portside is just before Jabins

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Nov 20, 2015, at 5:26 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
I will try again on Monday. There was no answering system.

I am in Annapolis at Bert Jabins Yacht Yard

Thanks Ric,
Jamie Wendell



On Friday, November 20, 2015 4:50 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
His email is portsidemar@... and the number is 410-263-3302. Someone not always in office, but you can leave a message. Email me directly and I I will help. Where is your boat?
Ric
SN24 Bali Hai Hartges Yacht Yard,
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 3:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
 
Well I tried both numbers. The 263-3300 gives me "The Soccer Court." The other never picks up.
Not sure?
Jamie
 
 
On Friday, November 20, 2015 2:58 PM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
He is in Annapolis 410-263-3300 Chri Oliver Jr or CO2 on Edgewood Road 
Cheers!

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Nov 20, 2015, at 1:38 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Ric, I just called them, at least I think this is the Portside Marine you are referencing.
They do not support Volvo Penta diesels - only gasoline. Plus they are in Massachusetts and I am in Maryland.
Thanks for the tip though.
Do I have the wrong outfit?
Jamie
 
 
On Friday, November 20, 2015 1:31 PM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
I have not. I will do so right now.
Thanks,
Jamie
 
 
On Friday, November 20, 2015 9:09 AM, "Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
I assume you contacted Portside Marine. Yes, he is busy, but he is your best answer and a perkins/volvo pro. 
Bali Hai Annapolis

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Nov 20, 2015, at 7:40 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Trevor, that is quite a story. When I arrived in Annapolis in June, there were many severe thunderstorms and they went on for weeks as I recall. In fact we passed through a really bad one on our way up the Chesapeake and had to "tread water" for several hours until it passed. We were not hit fortunately.
 
I left the boat for a week when we arrived, so I suppose it is possible the boat was hit. If so though, I saw no evidence other than that possible failed sensor on the engine. It does not really seem plausible to me - why just the rail sensor.
 
It is interesting though that several folks out there have experienced a rail pressure sensor failure (for various reasons apparently) and yet the VODIA tests found nothing wrong. The Volvo techs (good or not so good) should not have to systematically change out engine parts to find an electrical problem. What good is that diagnostics tool...............it is supposed to check all the sensors on startup.
 
A may just bite the bullet and buy a new sensor and see what happens. My only other path is a compression test and no one in Annapolis seems capable of doing that. Either they are too "booked up" or do not have the expertise. My current rep told me I would have to buy all the test gear if he had to do it - huh? If that were true I should just buy the equipment and do it myself.
 
Regrettably, I do not have a spare D3 in my garage.
 
Thanks,
Jamie
 
 
 
On Friday, November 20, 2015 3:31 AM, "seafeverofcuan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
Jamie,
         Following Tony Robinson's posting re. electrical storm. Is there any way that you can establish if your boat could have been hit by lightening after you left it?
I was sailing up the coast of Brazil in 2009 with four another Amels, there was a 54 called Togwin owned by a very knowledgeable  Frenchman.
Togwin suddenly lost all engine power during an Electrical storm and she was taken in tow by the rest of the group for 350 miles.
The owner well known to the factory, had a new Amel 64 on order and the factory sent out a Volvo technician from France to the Amazon basin.
The man arrived with every conceivable solid state part, meters, etc. and as others have posted, he methodically replaced each sensor until he got the engine to run.
I am not sure exactly who defined that the problem was due to lightening striking the stainless steel rails on the aft coach roof.
Regards,
Trevor
 
Seafever of Cuan
2004 SM 425 Redline
Mexico
For Sale
$ 295,000
 
 
 
 
 
 





Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

ms42phantom54@...
 

I just want to give the folks out there an update on my "no-start" engine. I appreciate the support from the group, but have finally deciphered the problem, and it is not good.

As I noted, I have been unable to start my engine since I left Florida in June. Today my outfit of choice here in Annapolis (Bay Shore) finally agreed to help and ran a whole bunch of engine tests (verified the pressure sensor, crank sensor, injectors, fuel systems, etc.). After much head scratching, it appears that raw water from the exhaust system has been slowly migrating back into the intercooler, thereby injecting salt water into the intake manifold. Over time, that has likely caused valve seat damage, piston damage, and even cylinder wall damage. Without taking the engine apart we cannot prove that, but there are salt crystals and corrosion at the mixer fittings adjacent to the turbo. It should be dry. My mechanic (this time a really good one who really investigated the problem) felt the exhaust hose was mounted too high with a lot of resistance. He also felt the muffler was too small, and the type installed is apparently prone to backup over time. I don't blame anyone really, but it is a lesson learned (although an expensive one for sure).

I will be installing a new engine and addressing the installation issues to ensure this sort of thing does not happen again. We will be installing a "drum type" Vetus muffler with a short exhaust hose directly to the outlet on the port side. The one that loops up and over the engine wall is not good.

Not sure if anyone else out there with a "54" wants to investigate their installations, but I can see how water could "bounce" back into the engine if the exhaust system is not breathing freely. My situation might be unique, but regular flush-outs and periodic inspection of the muffler could be the answer, and certainly worth the effort to keep the systems clean and operational.

Thanks again,
Jamie Wendell
s/v Phantom Amel 54


R: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

Giovanni TESTA
 

 

Ciao to all,

same problem about BG/Hydra 2000 (2003) sonic speed and  possible solution,

Analysis:

2 different BG technicians ( Italy and Thailand)  told me that :

_  it is very difficult to find the ratio failure. May be the sensor, may be the Hydra sw.

    More, also the depth sensor may have failure ( I had to rest it many time ).

_ after 12/13 years it is better to deep reset the Hydra sw because over data stocked.

   This means that it is working worse and worse in progress.

First solution: we have to send it to BG factory to deep reset it because the internal battery may be not enough to restart the unit so…a lot of money for an old toy. Any way without certainty to solve the problem. More the sonic speed is out of the market.

Second possible solution, (my one).

I assume that SOW is important for data navigation, also if we have SOG.

This is not the issue now, but I was often very happy to have both at the same instant or in a passage, or tide, or strait, or...

Description:

-          the Depth BG housing is by www.airmartechnology.com so it is easy possible to replace the depth sensor with airmar DST800 TRIDATA sensor ( speed, depth, temperature) No new hole.

-          The out put is NMEA 2000, no good for our BG ( not only old NMEA, but BG uses also different nmea sentences ! grrr ! )  

-          So, if you have other navigation systems (I have FURUNO NAV/NET , but it works also with other old nmea units, not again with BG) it is possible to convert new data from DST800 to old unit with the little http://www.chicagomarineelectronics.com/Maretron_Manuals/Cabling_Catalog/AT-10_DataSheet.pdf to have a quick look at it. So I can see on my display/plotter the TRIDATA.

-          More, very important, I have replace the BG external analogic speed display with a SIMRAD display IS40 http://www.simrad-yachting.com/en-GB/Products/Instruments/IS40-Display-en-gb.aspx  my one, or IS20.

It can read also the data from all units inside ( GPS, navigation ecc).

 

Conclusion, it works very well and I use the BG only for data wind. As soon as possible, I plan  to replace also the wind sensor ( easy to be corroded) and to give the BG to garbage. So you know also my opinion about this  very, too much expensive toy.

 

I hope this may help.

 

All the best and Buon Vento

Giovanni TESTA

Sv EUTIKIA n 428 ( 2004)

Thailand

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

 

 



----Messaggio originale----
Da: amelyachtowners@...
Data: 2-dic-2015 13.49
A: "amelyachtowners@..."
Ogg: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed



----Messaggio originale----
Da: amelyachtowners@...
Data: 2-dic-2015 13.49
A: "amelyachtowners@..."
Ogg: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

 

You are correct Bill. In my haste to offer some advice last night I did not word my comments correctly. If they are all B&G sensors connecting to a Hydra system then it should work. Otherwise, something will be required to ensure signal compatibility to the instrument connection. The NMEA conversion is out of the Hydra (as I have on my 2000), or separately after it.
Thanks



On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 1:32 AM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
B&G paddle-wheel input is B&G proprietary, not NMEA.

If it is B&G compatible, it connects to the same input on the B&G processor as the Sonic Speed. If it is not B&G proprietary, there may be a translator black-box...If there is Tinley Electronics will know. Sarah Pidgley tinley.net>. If not, Tinley does sell a black box that converts GPS NMEA SOG to B&G SOW.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:48 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

You are correct Bill. In my haste to offer some advice last night I did not word my comments correctly. If they are all B&G sensors connecting to a Hydra system then it should work. Otherwise, something will be required to ensure signal compatibility to the instrument connection. The NMEA conversion is out of the Hydra (as I have on my 2000), or separately after it.
Thanks



On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 1:32 AM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
B&G paddle-wheel input is B&G proprietary, not NMEA.

If it is B&G compatible, it connects to the same input on the B&G processor as the Sonic Speed. If it is not B&G proprietary, there may be a translator black-box...If there is Tinley Electronics will know. Sarah Pidgley tinley.net>. If not, Tinley does sell a black box that converts GPS NMEA SOG to B&G SOW.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:48 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Autohelm ST 7000 compatibility with Raymarine

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you Bill
He had what I was looking for so now I have ordered all the spare Autopilot items i needed
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

B&G paddle-wheel input is B&G proprietary, not NMEA.

If it is B&G compatible, it connects to the same input on the B&G processor as the Sonic Speed. If it is not B&G proprietary, there may be a translator black-box...If there is Tinley Electronics will know. Sarah Pidgley tinley.net>. If not, Tinley does sell a black box that converts GPS NMEA SOG to B&G SOW.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:48 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Conversion of dishwasher to Refrigerator

Eric Freedman
 

Sorry,

I did not sign this.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:13 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Conversion of dishwasher to Refrigerator

 

 

I was asked by a number of folks to post how i converted the dishwasher (useless for me) to a refrigerator.

Here is how I did it: Photos in photo section.

 

 

 

The reefer holds about 48 cans of soda an after a few hours they are ice cold.

 

Here are the steps to make one.

 

First I removed the dishwasher power  line in the AC panel .

 

Then I removed the Stove, the front mahogany  panels of the dishwasher and the 2 doors under the sink.

 

 I did not take a photo of the above the third photo is of the unit installed after modification.

 

There is a Amel knob that holds the dishwasher down and a cord an plug which I removed and disconnected and plugged the water line.

 

The unit can then be removed. The entire bottom of the unit can then be removed leaving a stainless tub.

 

 

 

 

 

The tub of the unit is not level. I covered a piece of plywood with plastic  wrap and put some foam in the bottom to level it with the plywood making it flat. When dry, I removed the plywood. I then lined it with 2 inches of rigid insulation which is covered in 1/16 inch vinyl.  I sealed the seams with 5200 adhesive and mounted the cold plate on standoffs and the thermostat and pre charged tubing for the compressor.

 

 

 

The tub was then complete.  Next I mounted the compressor in the bottom of the area where the washer was located. I drilled a large hole under the stove toward the rear of the stove. This with ducting provides air to the compressor.

 

 

 

The wire that I disconnected from the AC panel was run to a circuit breaker near the rotary autopilot  and connected it to the 24 volt lugs on the inboard side of autopilot area. The other end runs to the plug where the dishwasher was plugged in. The wire is sufficient to power the Reefer. I rewired the receptacle and it was used to provide DC to the compressor (white wire). ). I then wrapped the whole thing in an insulated blanket that is used to wrap water heaters and installed a flat neoprene seal on the underside of the lid.

 

 

 

Put the cabinets an stove back And Bobs your Uncle.

 

When I get to St Maarten later this winter, I will have a welded Stainless steel liner made for this reefer.

 

 

 

We used it to on our way to Colombia  and it worked flawlessly.

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

Eric Freedman
 

Jamie,

Thanks- I will look for it on Kimberlite- I thought each unit was able to turn on the motor without a relay.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:55 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Kent, I have a 54, but I suspect the SM is the same. My A/C pump control box is located on the portside wall in the engine room, opposite the generator. I know because I just removed it to make room for my new inverter.

You should not have 120V unless you are connected to shore power in the US. One of the 240V legs to ground will give you 120V.

Jamie

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 3:09 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I just checked again Bill.  There is 124 VAC between either blue or brown at the pump and either the AC ground or the bonding system.  There is almost NO resistance between the AC ground and the bonding system.

 

There is at least a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system.  Any idea how to figure out where that might be?

 

Do you know where the relay box is that powers the AC pump when the units are turned on?  That's where I think at least part of the problem lies.

 

Thanks again

Kent 

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:23 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I think that you just said that there is no voltage between brow and earth with the breakers off

 

And that there is voltage between the brown and the bonding system green/yellow under the exact same circumstances.

 

If this is true, I believe that your bonding system is HOT. Check between bonding system and earth (green/yellow from shore)

 

Bill 

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I'm in Fernandina Beach, FL, Eric.

There is NO voltage between the brown wire and the green wire in the cable going to the A/C pump with the A/C breakers off.  There IS 124V AC between the brown wire and the bonding system.

 

I just discovered  that neither the forward A/C nor heater will come on now.  I'm guessing that's where I'll find the problem.  I need to find the 220 AC wiring diagrams for the A/Cs and the boat.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy

Tiger Point Marina

Fernandina Beach FL



On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:21 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I meant 110 volts not 10 volts.

Where are you?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From:< /span> amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:17 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

 

I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

 

If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts betwee n the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

 

I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

 

I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

Eric Freedman
 

Kent,

You definitely have a problem is you have AC voltage between the bonding and either blue or brown.

My guess is that there is a relay in each AC unit that can turn on the Calpeda pump.

 

On the back of the pan of each Climma unit , there is a connector held on to the pan with Velcro. It is difficult to get to in the act cabin. It is flat and white. You might try unplugging each unit and see if that makes any difference,. This big white connector supplies the voltage and controls to each unit.

 

I just had a thought- possibly there is a short in the Compressor that connects the AC unit to the bonding—just a thought off the top of my head.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

I think that what you are saying is right, Eric, but not when the A/C breakers are off, right?  I think the power is coming from somewhere other than the 220 panel.

 

I'm thinking that the power to the A/C pump is coming from a relay box somewhere that powers the pump when any of the A/C units is turned on.  My Climma info says there should be one for multiple unit installations.  Does anyone know where that relay box is located on the boat?

 

It's curious that I have 120VAC between either brown or blue and ground (and the bonding system), when the A/C breakers are off, but no voltage between brown and blue.  When the AC breakers are on, I get 240 between brown and blue and the pump works as it should.

 

I just don't understand electricity well enough to surmise why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

 

If anyone knows where the relay box is for the AC pump, that seems like a good place to start.

 

As always, thanks for your input.
Kent

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:20 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

You should get 110 volts between the red and ground and 110 volts between the black and the ground. The ground and the white neutral should be the same, as the ground is connected to earth somewhere in the marina.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal..I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

 

The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

 

6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

 

I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

 

Kent 

SM 243

Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 

and this: 

 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:

  1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

 

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

 

Kent 

 


On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

 

I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

 

If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

 

I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

 

I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation



B&G speed

pjn.mccallin@...
 

My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

Thanks, it's Tom isn't it?
Actually, my understanding is that U.S. 220 shore power passes through the system unaltered, with the brown and blue wires each carrying 110VAC.  That's what I'm seeing at the A/C water pump, 120vAC from either the brown or the blue wire to the green/yellow wire, and 240vAV from the brown to the blue wire.

There are two issues:
1. There is a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system somewhere.
2.  I'm getting 120vAC between the pump brown wire and ground, and between the blue wire and ground, but nothing between brown and blue with all A/C units OFF at the 220 panel. Withe any AC unit on, I get 120 with either brown or blue and ground, and 240 with brown and blue.

I haven't checked it connected to 110vAC shore power.

I just found the Climma A/C relay box that turns the pump on when  any one of the three A/C units is turned on.  It's in the engine room just below the automatic switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.
I haven't investigated fully yet but at first glance I don't see any evidence of a burned out relay.  I'm pretty sure that the pump gets its power from here, not from the A/C units or 220 panel breakers.  It could be a bad relay supplying power to the pump.

I'll know more after I tackle it again tomorrow.

Thanks for your interest and suggestions,
Kent 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 5:12 PM, peacock@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,


I've been following this a little, which might be a mistake on my part. We have also had problems with the 110/220 shore power cords.

As far as I can see, there is NO WAY that you should be having 110 (or 124) volts if you are plugged into a 220V/50A except if the wiring is wrong. By the time the power gets into the working AC part of the boat, there is only a hot 220 and a neutral; the US system of two hot 110 wires has by then been dealt with. If you have 110 or 124, it must be coming from an incorrect wiring connection related somehow to your shore power. The wires come in through the cord, and then run to the box in the engine room where you can select 110 or 220 input. You might want to check that as well. Outside of a 110V inverter, an Amel should never see 110 (or 124) volts.


Conversion of dishwasher to Refrigerator

Eric Freedman
 

I was asked by a number of folks to post how i converted the dishwasher (useless for me) to a refrigerator.

Here is how I did it: Photos in photo section.




The reefer holds about 48 cans of soda an after a few hours they are ice cold.


Here are the steps to make one.


First I removed the dishwasher power  line in the AC panel .


Then I removed the Stove, the front mahogany  panels of the dishwasher and the 2 doors under the sink.


 I did not take a photo of the above the third photo is of the unit installed after modification.


There is a Amel knob that holds the dishwasher down and a cord an plug which I removed and disconnected and plugged the water line.


The unit can then be removed. The entire bottom of the unit can then be removed leaving a stainless tub.


 


 


The tub of the unit is not level. I covered a piece of plywood with plastic  wrap and put some foam in the bottom to level it with the plywood making it flat. When dry, I removed the plywood. I then lined it with 2 inches of rigid insulation which is covered in 1/16 inch vinyl.  I sealed the seams with 5200 adhesive and mounted the cold plate on standoffs and the thermostat and pre charged tubing for the compressor.


 


The tub was then complete.  Next I mounted the compressor in the bottom of the area where the washer was located. I drilled a large hole under the stove toward the rear of the stove. This with ducting provides air to the compressor.


 


The wire that I disconnected from the AC panel was run to a circuit breaker near the rotary autopilot  and connected it to the 24 volt lugs on the inboard side of autopilot area. The other end runs to the plug where the dishwasher was plugged in. The wire is sufficient to power the Reefer. I rewired the receptacle and it was used to provide DC to the compressor (white wire). ). I then wrapped the whole thing in an insulated blanket that is used to wrap water heaters and installed a flat neoprene seal on the underside of the lid.


 


Put the cabinets an stove back And Bobs your Uncle.


When I get to St Maarten later this winter, I will have a welded Stainless steel liner made for this reefer.


 


We used it to on our way to Colombia  and it worked flawlessly.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Kent, I have a 54, but I suspect the SM is the same. My A/C pump control box is located on the portside wall in the engine room, opposite the generator. I know because I just removed it to make room for my new inverter.
You should not have 120V unless you are connected to shore power in the US. One of the 240V legs to ground will give you 120V.
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 3:09 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I just checked again Bill.  There is 124 VAC between either blue or brown at the pump and either the AC ground or the bonding system.  There is almost NO resistance between the AC ground and the bonding system.

There is at least a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system.  Any idea how to figure out where that might be?

Do you know where the relay box is that powers the AC pump when the units are turned on?  That's where I think at least part of the problem lies.

Thanks again
Kent 
SM 243
Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:23 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent,

I think that you just said that there is no voltage between brow and earth with the breakers off

And that there is voltage between the brown and the bonding system green/yellow under the exact same circumstances.

If this is true, I believe that your bonding system is HOT. Check between bonding system and earth (green/yellow from shore)

Bill 
BeBe 387

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I'm in Fernandina Beach, FL, Eric.
There is NO voltage between the brown wire and the green wire in the cable going to the A/C pump with the A/C breakers off.  There IS 124V AC between the brown wire and the bonding system.

I just discovered  that neither the forward A/C nor heater will come on now.  I'm guessing that's where I'll find the problem.  I need to find the 220 AC wiring diagrams for the A/Cs and the boat.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
Tiger Point Marina
Fernandina Beach FL


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:21 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent,
I meant 110 volts not 10 volts.
Where are you?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From:< /span> amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:17 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
 
 
Hi Kent,
If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.
 
I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.
 
If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts betwee n the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.
 
I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.
 
I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.
Eric
sm 376 kimberlite.