Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

You are correct Bill. In my haste to offer some advice last night I did not word my comments correctly. If they are all B&G sensors connecting to a Hydra system then it should work. Otherwise, something will be required to ensure signal compatibility to the instrument connection. The NMEA conversion is out of the Hydra (as I have on my 2000), or separately after it.
Thanks



On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 1:32 AM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
B&G paddle-wheel input is B&G proprietary, not NMEA.

If it is B&G compatible, it connects to the same input on the B&G processor as the Sonic Speed. If it is not B&G proprietary, there may be a translator black-box...If there is Tinley Electronics will know. Sarah Pidgley tinley.net>. If not, Tinley does sell a black box that converts GPS NMEA SOG to B&G SOW.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:48 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Autohelm ST 7000 compatibility with Raymarine

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you Bill
He had what I was looking for so now I have ordered all the spare Autopilot items i needed
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

B&G paddle-wheel input is B&G proprietary, not NMEA.

If it is B&G compatible, it connects to the same input on the B&G processor as the Sonic Speed. If it is not B&G proprietary, there may be a translator black-box...If there is Tinley Electronics will know. Sarah Pidgley tinley.net>. If not, Tinley does sell a black box that converts GPS NMEA SOG to B&G SOW.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 2:48 AM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Conversion of dishwasher to Refrigerator

eric freedman
 

Sorry,

I did not sign this.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:13 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Conversion of dishwasher to Refrigerator

 

 

I was asked by a number of folks to post how i converted the dishwasher (useless for me) to a refrigerator.

Here is how I did it: Photos in photo section.

 

 

 

The reefer holds about 48 cans of soda an after a few hours they are ice cold.

 

Here are the steps to make one.

 

First I removed the dishwasher power  line in the AC panel .

 

Then I removed the Stove, the front mahogany  panels of the dishwasher and the 2 doors under the sink.

 

 I did not take a photo of the above the third photo is of the unit installed after modification.

 

There is a Amel knob that holds the dishwasher down and a cord an plug which I removed and disconnected and plugged the water line.

 

The unit can then be removed. The entire bottom of the unit can then be removed leaving a stainless tub.

 

 

 

 

 

The tub of the unit is not level. I covered a piece of plywood with plastic  wrap and put some foam in the bottom to level it with the plywood making it flat. When dry, I removed the plywood. I then lined it with 2 inches of rigid insulation which is covered in 1/16 inch vinyl.  I sealed the seams with 5200 adhesive and mounted the cold plate on standoffs and the thermostat and pre charged tubing for the compressor.

 

 

 

The tub was then complete.  Next I mounted the compressor in the bottom of the area where the washer was located. I drilled a large hole under the stove toward the rear of the stove. This with ducting provides air to the compressor.

 

 

 

The wire that I disconnected from the AC panel was run to a circuit breaker near the rotary autopilot  and connected it to the 24 volt lugs on the inboard side of autopilot area. The other end runs to the plug where the dishwasher was plugged in. The wire is sufficient to power the Reefer. I rewired the receptacle and it was used to provide DC to the compressor (white wire). ). I then wrapped the whole thing in an insulated blanket that is used to wrap water heaters and installed a flat neoprene seal on the underside of the lid.

 

 

 

Put the cabinets an stove back And Bobs your Uncle.

 

When I get to St Maarten later this winter, I will have a welded Stainless steel liner made for this reefer.

 

 

 

We used it to on our way to Colombia  and it worked flawlessly.

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

eric freedman
 

Jamie,

Thanks- I will look for it on Kimberlite- I thought each unit was able to turn on the motor without a relay.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 6:55 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Kent, I have a 54, but I suspect the SM is the same. My A/C pump control box is located on the portside wall in the engine room, opposite the generator. I know because I just removed it to make room for my new inverter.

You should not have 120V unless you are connected to shore power in the US. One of the 240V legs to ground will give you 120V.

Jamie

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 3:09 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I just checked again Bill.  There is 124 VAC between either blue or brown at the pump and either the AC ground or the bonding system.  There is almost NO resistance between the AC ground and the bonding system.

 

There is at least a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system.  Any idea how to figure out where that might be?

 

Do you know where the relay box is that powers the AC pump when the units are turned on?  That's where I think at least part of the problem lies.

 

Thanks again

Kent 

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:23 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I think that you just said that there is no voltage between brow and earth with the breakers off

 

And that there is voltage between the brown and the bonding system green/yellow under the exact same circumstances.

 

If this is true, I believe that your bonding system is HOT. Check between bonding system and earth (green/yellow from shore)

 

Bill 

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I'm in Fernandina Beach, FL, Eric.

There is NO voltage between the brown wire and the green wire in the cable going to the A/C pump with the A/C breakers off.  There IS 124V AC between the brown wire and the bonding system.

 

I just discovered  that neither the forward A/C nor heater will come on now.  I'm guessing that's where I'll find the problem.  I need to find the 220 AC wiring diagrams for the A/Cs and the boat.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy

Tiger Point Marina

Fernandina Beach FL



On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:21 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I meant 110 volts not 10 volts.

Where are you?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From:< /span> amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:17 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

 

I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

 

If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts betwee n the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

 

I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

 

I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

eric freedman
 

Kent,

You definitely have a problem is you have AC voltage between the bonding and either blue or brown.

My guess is that there is a relay in each AC unit that can turn on the Calpeda pump.

 

On the back of the pan of each Climma unit , there is a connector held on to the pan with Velcro. It is difficult to get to in the act cabin. It is flat and white. You might try unplugging each unit and see if that makes any difference,. This big white connector supplies the voltage and controls to each unit.

 

I just had a thought- possibly there is a short in the Compressor that connects the AC unit to the bonding—just a thought off the top of my head.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 3:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

I think that what you are saying is right, Eric, but not when the A/C breakers are off, right?  I think the power is coming from somewhere other than the 220 panel.

 

I'm thinking that the power to the A/C pump is coming from a relay box somewhere that powers the pump when any of the A/C units is turned on.  My Climma info says there should be one for multiple unit installations.  Does anyone know where that relay box is located on the boat?

 

It's curious that I have 120VAC between either brown or blue and ground (and the bonding system), when the A/C breakers are off, but no voltage between brown and blue.  When the AC breakers are on, I get 240 between brown and blue and the pump works as it should.

 

I just don't understand electricity well enough to surmise why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

 

If anyone knows where the relay box is for the AC pump, that seems like a good place to start.

 

As always, thanks for your input.
Kent

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:20 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

You should get 110 volts between the red and ground and 110 volts between the black and the ground. The ground and the white neutral should be the same, as the ground is connected to earth somewhere in the marina.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:07 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 

 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal..I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

 

The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

 

6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

 

I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

 

Kent 

SM 243

Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

 

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 

and this: 

 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:

  1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.

Bill

BeBe 387

 

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

 

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

 

Kent 

 


On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

 

I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

 

If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

 

I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

 

I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G speed

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

How did you connect the paddle wheel unit? Is it NMEA 2K? What make? The sonic speed was NMEA 0183 and they are not interchangeable, assuming you have a B&G Hydra system.
Jamie
s/v Phantom



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:43 PM, "pjn.mccallin@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation



B&G speed

pjn.mccallin@...
 

My sonic speed has given up the ghost have fitted paddle wheel drive. On first test no speed showing on cockpit display, any ideas please, should I have to recalibrate to tell the "brains" of the change. Electronice drive me round the twist but no local expert to hand. Thanks in anticipation


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

Thanks, it's Tom isn't it?
Actually, my understanding is that U.S. 220 shore power passes through the system unaltered, with the brown and blue wires each carrying 110VAC.  That's what I'm seeing at the A/C water pump, 120vAC from either the brown or the blue wire to the green/yellow wire, and 240vAV from the brown to the blue wire.

There are two issues:
1. There is a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system somewhere.
2.  I'm getting 120vAC between the pump brown wire and ground, and between the blue wire and ground, but nothing between brown and blue with all A/C units OFF at the 220 panel. Withe any AC unit on, I get 120 with either brown or blue and ground, and 240 with brown and blue.

I haven't checked it connected to 110vAC shore power.

I just found the Climma A/C relay box that turns the pump on when  any one of the three A/C units is turned on.  It's in the engine room just below the automatic switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.
I haven't investigated fully yet but at first glance I don't see any evidence of a burned out relay.  I'm pretty sure that the pump gets its power from here, not from the A/C units or 220 panel breakers.  It could be a bad relay supplying power to the pump.

I'll know more after I tackle it again tomorrow.

Thanks for your interest and suggestions,
Kent 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 5:12 PM, peacock@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,


I've been following this a little, which might be a mistake on my part. We have also had problems with the 110/220 shore power cords.

As far as I can see, there is NO WAY that you should be having 110 (or 124) volts if you are plugged into a 220V/50A except if the wiring is wrong. By the time the power gets into the working AC part of the boat, there is only a hot 220 and a neutral; the US system of two hot 110 wires has by then been dealt with. If you have 110 or 124, it must be coming from an incorrect wiring connection related somehow to your shore power. The wires come in through the cord, and then run to the box in the engine room where you can select 110 or 220 input. You might want to check that as well. Outside of a 110V inverter, an Amel should never see 110 (or 124) volts.


Conversion of dishwasher to Refrigerator

eric freedman
 

I was asked by a number of folks to post how i converted the dishwasher (useless for me) to a refrigerator.

Here is how I did it: Photos in photo section.




The reefer holds about 48 cans of soda an after a few hours they are ice cold.


Here are the steps to make one.


First I removed the dishwasher power  line in the AC panel .


Then I removed the Stove, the front mahogany  panels of the dishwasher and the 2 doors under the sink.


 I did not take a photo of the above the third photo is of the unit installed after modification.


There is a Amel knob that holds the dishwasher down and a cord an plug which I removed and disconnected and plugged the water line.


The unit can then be removed. The entire bottom of the unit can then be removed leaving a stainless tub.


 


 


The tub of the unit is not level. I covered a piece of plywood with plastic  wrap and put some foam in the bottom to level it with the plywood making it flat. When dry, I removed the plywood. I then lined it with 2 inches of rigid insulation which is covered in 1/16 inch vinyl.  I sealed the seams with 5200 adhesive and mounted the cold plate on standoffs and the thermostat and pre charged tubing for the compressor.


 


The tub was then complete.  Next I mounted the compressor in the bottom of the area where the washer was located. I drilled a large hole under the stove toward the rear of the stove. This with ducting provides air to the compressor.


 


The wire that I disconnected from the AC panel was run to a circuit breaker near the rotary autopilot  and connected it to the 24 volt lugs on the inboard side of autopilot area. The other end runs to the plug where the dishwasher was plugged in. The wire is sufficient to power the Reefer. I rewired the receptacle and it was used to provide DC to the compressor (white wire). ). I then wrapped the whole thing in an insulated blanket that is used to wrap water heaters and installed a flat neoprene seal on the underside of the lid.


 


Put the cabinets an stove back And Bobs your Uncle.


When I get to St Maarten later this winter, I will have a welded Stainless steel liner made for this reefer.


 


We used it to on our way to Colombia  and it worked flawlessly.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Kent, I have a 54, but I suspect the SM is the same. My A/C pump control box is located on the portside wall in the engine room, opposite the generator. I know because I just removed it to make room for my new inverter.
You should not have 120V unless you are connected to shore power in the US. One of the 240V legs to ground will give you 120V.
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 3:09 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I just checked again Bill.  There is 124 VAC between either blue or brown at the pump and either the AC ground or the bonding system.  There is almost NO resistance between the AC ground and the bonding system.

There is at least a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system.  Any idea how to figure out where that might be?

Do you know where the relay box is that powers the AC pump when the units are turned on?  That's where I think at least part of the problem lies.

Thanks again
Kent 
SM 243
Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:23 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent,

I think that you just said that there is no voltage between brow and earth with the breakers off

And that there is voltage between the brown and the bonding system green/yellow under the exact same circumstances.

If this is true, I believe that your bonding system is HOT. Check between bonding system and earth (green/yellow from shore)

Bill 
BeBe 387

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I'm in Fernandina Beach, FL, Eric.
There is NO voltage between the brown wire and the green wire in the cable going to the A/C pump with the A/C breakers off.  There IS 124V AC between the brown wire and the bonding system.

I just discovered  that neither the forward A/C nor heater will come on now.  I'm guessing that's where I'll find the problem.  I need to find the 220 AC wiring diagrams for the A/Cs and the boat.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy
Tiger Point Marina
Fernandina Beach FL


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:21 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Kent,
I meant 110 volts not 10 volts.
Where are you?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From:< /span> amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:17 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
 
 
Hi Kent,
If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.
 
I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.
 
If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts betwee n the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.
 
I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.
 
I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.
Eric
sm 376 kimberlite.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

peacock@...
 

Hi Kent,

I've been following this a little, which might be a mistake on my part. We have also had problems with the 110/220 shore power cords.

As far as I can see, there is NO WAY that you should be having 110 (or 124) volts if you are plugged into a 220V/50A except if the wiring is wrong. By the time the power gets into the working AC part of the boat, there is only a hot 220 and a neutral; the US system of two hot 110 wires has by then been dealt with. If you have 110 or 124, it must be coming from an incorrect wiring connection related somehow to your shore power. The wires come in through the cord, and then run to the box in the engine room where you can select 110 or 220 input. You might want to check that as well. Outside of a 110V inverter, an Amel should never see 110 (or 124) volts.


Re: Stuffing box

Gaffney, Drew <drew.gaffney@...>
 

The plate keeps the nut from turning unintentionally.  Remove the two screws.  An adjustable flat wrench (75mm) will work.  Turn the nut so the next side is facing where the small plate will keep it from turning.  It’s 1/6th of one turn.  Look at the pictures Bill (SVBEBE) posted 20 Feb 2009.  Search “Rudder post stuffing” in the photo section.  I bought the flat adjustable wrench from a plumbing supply store on line for $15 USD.  It’s hard to turn, which is why it’s good to have a suitable wrench.  We’ve done ½ turn in 9yrs.

Drew and Lili

SY Revelation SM#390

Lying Rebel Marina
Norfolk, VA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Clothes washer issue on SM 391

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Thanks worked well.  Easy removal 

Ben Driver

On Nov 23, 2015, at 4:34 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Yes,

Go here: 

You remove the 2 bolts on the side facing the galley counter top and the case will open up...be careful because the lift-up top will come loose...this is very easy.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 11:11 PM, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,

I ordered the part you suggested and now intend to install.  Can you provide any guidance on removal of the Astral Washing machine. It seems wood panels encasing machine are glassed in - which tells me unit needs be lifted straight up.  Was this your experience?


thanks

Ben Driver

SM #347

BVI



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

I rechecked the wiring of the shore power plug and the wiring of the pedestal, and all appear to be correct.
Kent 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
and this: 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
  1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

Kent 



On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

Eric

sm 376 kimberlite.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

karkauai
 

I have one Mike, and it has been reading -950mv all along...with or without shore power, generator, AC and/or DC appliances.

But my zincs are disappearing too fast and I have a connection somewhere from AC ground to the bonding system.

Obviously the reference electrode isn't a panacea.

Kent 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Mike Johnson mike.k.johnson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

Have you considered getting a Silver-Silver Chloride probe and working your way around all the components.  This may have been discussed previously.


Very best wishes

Mike & Peta
Solitude
SM2K #461

On 1 Dec 2015, at 13:06, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your thoughts.

I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connec ted to 200V 50A shore power.

Kent 
SM 243
Kristy 


On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
and this: 

A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
< ol>
  • When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  • Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  • I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
  • Bill
    BeBe 387

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

    Kent 



    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.



    Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

    karkauai
     

    I just checked again Bill.  There is 124 VAC between either blue or brown at the pump and either the AC ground or the bonding system.  There is almost NO resistance between the AC ground and the bonding system.

    There is at least a solid connection from AC ground to the bonding system.  Any idea how to figure out where that might be?

    Do you know where the relay box is that powers the AC pump when the units are turned on?  That's where I think at least part of the problem lies.

    Thanks again
    Kent 
    SM 243
    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:23 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    I think that you just said that there is no voltage between brow and earth with the breakers off

    And that there is voltage between the brown and the bonding system green/yellow under the exact same circumstances.

    If this is true, I believe that your bonding system is HOT. Check between bonding system and earth (green/yellow from shore)

    Bill 
    BeBe 387

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
     

    I'm in Fernandina Beach, FL, Eric.
    There is NO voltage between the brown wire and the green wire in the cable going to the A/C pump with the A/C breakers off.  There IS 124V AC between the brown wire and the bonding system.

    I just discovered  that neither the forward A/C nor heater will come on now.  I'm guessing that's where I'll find the problem.  I need to find the 220 AC wiring diagrams for the A/Cs and the boat.
    Kent
    SM 243
    Kristy
    Tiger Point Marina
    Fernandina Beach FL


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:21 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    I meant 110 volts not 10 volts.

    Where are you?

    Fair Winds

    Eric

    Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

     

     

    From:< /span> amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
    Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:17 PM
    To: amelyachtowners@...
    Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

     

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

     

    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

     

    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts betwee n the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

     

    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

     

    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.



    Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

    karkauai
     

    I think that what you are saying is right, Eric, but not when the A/C breakers are off, right?  I think the power is coming from somewhere other than the 220 panel.

    I'm thinking that the power to the A/C pump is coming from a relay box somewhere that powers the pump when any of the A/C units is turned on.  My Climma info says there should be one for multiple unit installations.  Does anyone know where that relay box is located on the boat?

    It's curious that I have 120VAC between either brown or blue and ground (and the bonding system), when the A/C breakers are off, but no voltage between brown and blue.  When the AC breakers are on, I get 240 between brown and blue and the pump works as it should.

    I just don't understand electricity well enough to surmise why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

    If anyone knows where the relay box is for the AC pump, that seems like a good place to start.

    As always, thanks for your input.
    Kent
    SM 243
    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 8:20 AM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    You should get 110 volts between the red and ground and 110 volts between the black and the ground. The ground and the white neutral should be the same, as the ground is connected to earth somewhere in the marina.

    Fair Winds

    Eric

    Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

     

     

    From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 8:07 AM
    To: amelyachtowners@...
    Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

     

     

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for your thoughts.

     

    I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

     

    The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

     

    6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

     

    I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connected to 200V 50A shore power.

     

    Kent 

    SM 243

    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

     

    I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 

    and this: 

     

    A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:

    1. When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
    2. Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
    3. I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.

    Bill

    BeBe 387

     

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

     

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

     

    Kent 

     


    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.

     

    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.

     

    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.

     

    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.

     

    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.

     


    Re: aft lazarette hull plug

    Duane Siegfri
     

    I do appreciate everyone's comments.

    Ian, the boat has not moved from the dock over that two month time period, I was back in St. Louis.  I'm not sure where the water came from that might have come in the bumper bolts.  I suppose it's possible that some wind-driven waves were washing over the bumper.

    In August I had Peggy run a hose over the Lazarette with the hatch dogged down, and me inside watching for leaks.  The hatch seal did leak if Peg shot the hose a full force parallel to the deck, but I wouldn't think this would be an issue in normal usage sitting at a dock.  We had a leak from a wire for a Satellite Phone antenna exiting the starboard stern and leaking onto the upper stbd. shelf which we repaired, and I think is under control now.

    Next time I'm there we're going to tape down some paper towels and watch them for a few days. 


    Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

    Mike Johnson
     

    Hi Kent,

    Have you considered getting a Silver-Silver Chloride probe and working your way around all the components.  This may have been discussed previously.


    Very best wishes

    Mike & Peta
    Solitude
    SM2K #461

    On 1 Dec 2015, at 13:06, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Bill,
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I'll look at the plug again, but I'm sure it's wired correctly.  I'll also check the pedestal...I think I should find 120VAC between the red and white posts, and between the black and white posts, and 240VAC between the red and black posts.  Should I find voltage between the red or black and ground?

    The voltage is still there with the water heater disconnected, so I doubt it has anything to do with that.  It could be that it's significant that the breakers for the water heater and the forward A/C on the 220 panel are adjacent to each other???

    6 months ago I added a galvanic isolator between the switch that chooses generator 220 over shore power 220.  That only affects the ground wire, so I don't  think that is going to be the problem.

    I have a 110VAC->220VAC transformer that isn't in play when connec ted to 200V 50A shore power.

    Kent 
    SM 243
    Kristy 


    On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:28 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Kent,

    I think that you have two issues. Heating element and wrong wiring.I agree with Eric that there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires. And it also sounds like exactly what has happened to several others when the power cord head is wired wrong in the US. Carefully look at this: 
    and this: 

    A few things that have not been discussed so far in this thread:
    < ol>
  • When the heating element needs replacing, it will not continually throw a ground fault. In the beginning of a failure, tiny holes develop in the heating element that allow water inside only when it becomes very hot and the water around it is very hot. You probably need a heating element replacement if it has been 3 or more years since you replaced it.
  • Do you have any devices ON (connected) while all of the breakers are off such as an isolation transformer? If so, look at it for incorrect wiring.
  • I am thinking that the wiring from shore power plug through to the 220VAC panel is faulty, or maybe the pedestal is wired wrong.
  • Bill
    BeBe 387

    On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
     

    I am on a U.S. 220v 50 amp pedestal.  The plug is wired as you suggested, leaving the white lug unused.
    I know that U.S. 220AC is comprised of two 110AC legs.  I'm wondering, since the voltage between the brown wire and the bonding system is almost exactly half of the 244 v AC, is it possible that one leg of the shore power is touching the bonding system somewhere?  That wouldn't explain the 72vAC I see when running the generator disconnected from shore power.

    I also looked for AC current using the reference electrode in the water and the bonding system and got 0 VAC connected to shore power and with all A/C and the water heater breakers turned on.  I don't know if that is even a legitimate test.

    Kent 



    On Nov 30, 2015, at 8:17 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

     

    Hi Kent,

    If you are plugged into a 50 amp US outlet at the dock i assume you did not hook up the white lug in the plug to anything.


    I believe the brown wire should go to the red lug and the blue to the black lug. the yellow green to the green lug.


    If I am not mistaken you will still have about 10 volts between the ground and the power lugs in the plug--as the ground and the white neutral are essentially the same.


    I think somewhere on your boat there is leakage between the green yellow A/C wire and one of the hot wires.


    I am doing this from memory as I am not near the boat.

    Eric

    sm 376 kimberlite.