Date   

Re: Help with explanation of terms in re Santorin, 1993

Duane Siegfri
 

PCMC = Personal Computer Mermory Card.  AKA PCMCIA where IA = International Association.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Thanks Colin, 
I think this motor is a winner .  I too got 9.5 knots  @ 3100 rpm going slightly off the wind and seas..

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Dec 13, 2015, at 5:05 AM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ben

Glad to hear that it was simply a prop cleaning issue which we assumed would be the case. You will love that engine we're sure as it is a good match to the SM. We have just discovered that none of our recent responses to this forum got sent from the new mobile phone so will answer your previous question again about what RPM's we usually run at.

When motor sailing we tend to run the motor at approx 1500 RPM's and 1700 - 1800 when motoring long range. When on a tight schedule we may run at 2200 - 2400 but seldom over this other than an occasional burst for 5 mins or so every hour at 3000 - 3300 or max depending on prop and hull cleanliness. Generally we tend to average about 6.8kts - 7.5kts but can do 9.5 when everything is clean and slippery. The good thing about that motor is the extended motoring range you get as the 75 HP Yanmar is extremely frugal but also simple to maintain and wonderfully reliable.

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane, Australia


On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

A thorough prop cleaning solved my problem.  RPMs went from 1800 to 3100 and pushed boat to over 9 knots.. At next haul out in July,  I will  properly service prop.  Thanks to all for  solid  guidance on this issue .  

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Dec 6, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I can, after I rebuild it, but I'm very happy with my MaxProp and really just need a spare prop.
Either would work fin temporarily.
Kent


On Dec 6, 2015, at 6:47 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Can’t you use the autoprop with your new engine?

It is such a great prop.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 6:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

 

 

When I was told by Bruntons that my Autoprop was what they recommended for a SM with 100 HP Yanmar, I had my fixed prop (which a good prop shop said was also over pitched for my 78 HP Volvo) repitched to what was recommended and got good rpm  again.  The Autoprop couldn't be repitched, so I replaced it with a MaxProp...not so persnickety as the AutoProp.

I wish I'd serviced the Autoprop first, it might have saved me 1000's of $.

 

I still have the repitched fixed prop (which is now under pitched for my new 110 Yanmar), and the old Autoprop which still hasn't been rebuilt.

If any one would like to buy either of these (but not both) I'd be happy to sell it for about half price plus shipping.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy 

Karkauai at yahoo dot com


On Dec 6, 2015, at 5:20 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

On kimberlite I had a loss of engine power. I tried everything and finally decided it was the prop. I ordered the stuff from AB marine and rented the tools. When I hauled the boat everything seemed fine . There was no play in the prop blades and everything spun freely---What the heck- I rebuilt the prop.

That was the problem. It is hard to believe that a few thousands of an inch makes a difference in the Autoprop performance, but it does.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 4:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

 

 

Ben,

When I had loss of rpm with my Volvo, I had the Autoprop cleaned and even out of the water all the blades spun freely on the hub.  I know that the only thing I didn't do (because I didn't know better, was to have the prop serviced.  Others have said that solved their problem.  If its been awhile since it was serviced, I'd do that even if the blades spin freely.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 6, 2015, at 5:54 AM, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks.   I'm diving the boat today .. It seems most feel prop is most likely.  If not, I'll move through all suggested fixes 

Thanks 

Ben Driver 

SM 347

La Bella Vita


Ben Driver


On Dec 4, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Ben,

 

I have a Volvo TDM 22 but diesels are diesels…

 

I encountered these symptoms on another boat… badly crusted propeller…

 

Other cause might be a faulty turbocharger.  Generally, we tend to baby our engines and this is not good.  I try to run at 80% or more power for 1 hour out of every 24 hrs of engine time.

 

Third possibility = a collapsed air filter.  BTDT.

 

Good luck.. at least the trouble shooting should be easy.

 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain,

SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007

Porto Turistico Marina di Ragusa, Pontoon M15,

97100 Ragusa, Sicily, Italy
+44 7551 211 511
sy.eleuthera@...

 

 

On 4 Dec 2015, at 17:09, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 

 

Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita

 


Posted by: joedoakes66@...


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Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Ben

Glad to hear that it was simply a prop cleaning issue which we assumed would be the case. You will love that engine we're sure as it is a good match to the SM. We have just discovered that none of our recent responses to this forum got sent from the new mobile phone so will answer your previous question again about what RPM's we usually run at.

When motor sailing we tend to run the motor at approx 1500 RPM's and 1700 - 1800 when motoring long range. When on a tight schedule we may run at 2200 - 2400 but seldom over this other than an occasional burst for 5 mins or so every hour at 3000 - 3300 or max depending on prop and hull cleanliness. Generally we tend to average about 6.8kts - 7.5kts but can do 9.5 when everything is clean and slippery. The good thing about that motor is the extended motoring range you get as the 75 HP Yanmar is extremely frugal but also simple to maintain and wonderfully reliable.

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane, Australia


On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

A thorough prop cleaning solved my problem.  RPMs went from 1800 to 3100 and pushed boat to over 9 knots.. At next haul out in July,  I will  properly service prop.  Thanks to all for  solid  guidance on this issue .  

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Dec 6, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I can, after I rebuild it, but I'm very happy with my MaxProp and really just need a spare prop.
Either would work fin temporarily.
Kent


On Dec 6, 2015, at 6:47 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Can’t you use the autoprop with your new engine?

It is such a great prop.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 6:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

 

 

When I was told by Bruntons that my Autoprop was what they recommended for a SM with 100 HP Yanmar, I had my fixed prop (which a good prop shop said was also over pitched for my 78 HP Volvo) repitched to what was recommended and got good rpm  again.  The Autoprop couldn't be repitched, so I replaced it with a MaxProp...not so persnickety as the AutoProp.

I wish I'd serviced the Autoprop first, it might have saved me 1000's of $.

 

I still have the repitched fixed prop (which is now under pitched for my new 110 Yanmar), and the old Autoprop which still hasn't been rebuilt.

If any one would like to buy either of these (but not both) I'd be happy to sell it for about half price plus shipping.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy 

Karkauai at yahoo dot com


On Dec 6, 2015, at 5:20 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

On kimberlite I had a loss of engine power. I tried everything and finally decided it was the prop. I ordered the stuff from AB marine and rented the tools. When I hauled the boat everything seemed fine . There was no play in the prop blades and everything spun freely---What the heck- I rebuilt the prop.

That was the problem. It is hard to believe that a few thousands of an inch makes a difference in the Autoprop performance, but it does.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 4:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

 

 

Ben,

When I had loss of rpm with my Volvo, I had the Autoprop cleaned and even out of the water all the blades spun freely on the hub.  I know that the only thing I didn't do (because I didn't know better, was to have the prop serviced.  Others have said that solved their problem.  If its been awhile since it was serviced, I'd do that even if the blades spin freely.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 6, 2015, at 5:54 AM, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks.   I'm diving the boat today .. It seems most feel prop is most likely.  If not, I'll move through all suggested fixes 

Thanks 

Ben Driver 

SM 347

La Bella Vita


Ben Driver


On Dec 4, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Ben,

 

I have a Volvo TDM 22 but diesels are diesels…

 

I encountered these symptoms on another boat… badly crusted propeller…

 

Other cause might be a faulty turbocharger.  Generally, we tend to baby our engines and this is not good.  I try to run at 80% or more power for 1 hour out of every 24 hrs of engine time.

 

Third possibility = a collapsed air filter.  BTDT.

 

Good luck.. at least the trouble shooting should be easy.

 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain,

SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007

Porto Turistico Marina di Ragusa, Pontoon M15,

97100 Ragusa, Sicily, Italy
+44 7551 211 511
sy.eleuthera@...

 

 

On 4 Dec 2015, at 17:09, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 

 

Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita

 


Posted by: joedoakes66@...


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--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

seafeverofcuan@...
 

That would be by understanding as well Danny. The suggestion from Jamie's latest technician is that there may be water inside the engine via the exhaust due to low engine compression not pushing out the raw water via the exhaust. 
I would think that is very unlikely. However, if there is, or was  seawater in the engine,then how did it get there?
There has been much discussion about low compression.
Given that the engine initially was cold cranked and didn't start, then the sea water drained from the exhaust, etc. ( to avoid flooding/ hydraulic action) which would allow the engine to crank again. Could it  be possible that either the valves are bent, or incorrectly seated as a result of the hydraulic  effect of sea water, i.e. engine now cranking but not enough compression to fire?
Until some one who knows what they are doing looks in side the engine , it is all speculation.
Best regards,
Trevor
Seafever
SM 425 
Mexico
 


Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

jjjk12s@...
 

Jamie,

 

I like your post #115. This thread is so long it may be missed that you intend to take the cylinder head off, so you can be left in peace now.

 

You've had plenty of advice along the same lines - and the old saying that "free advice is worth what you pay for it" is NOT true in this instance. And it may not be free for much longer....  ;)

 

Good luck

John Maramu #91 Popeye

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi again In my previous I left out the word "I " before "like". I noticed the absence changed the meaning.
Regards
Danny



From: "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Sunday, 13 December 2015 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
I would love to hear the engine has roared into life before we abandon the thread. Like your occams razor Eric
Cheers
Danny




From: "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, 13 December 2015 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Hi,
We have repeated this over and over again. A borescope would be good. However if the head is removed you can also see the valves and seats.
Seems like everyone agrees the head should come off. If I was there I am sure it would be at most a 3-4 hour job depending on how much other stuff has to come off (heat exchanger (possibly ) etc.
There is nothing to lose. As stated a few hand tools is all that is necessary. If the engine is totally shot—(Which I seriously doubt) just put it back together without gaskets and then change it.
The mechanics seem to be in a he said she said mode—how about some facts?? Do you know of
 
I THINK THIS THREAD HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
 
I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...
A LOT less than a new engine !!
Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.
Give it a go !!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
 





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

I would love to hear the engine has roared into life before we abandon the thread. Like your occams razor Eric
Cheers
Danny



From: "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Sunday, 13 December 2015 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Hi,
We have repeated this over and over again. A borescope would be good. However if the head is removed you can also see the valves and seats.
Seems like everyone agrees the head should come off. If I was there I am sure it would be at most a 3-4 hour job depending on how much other stuff has to come off (heat exchanger (possibly ) etc.
There is nothing to lose. As stated a few hand tools is all that is necessary. If the engine is totally shot—(Which I seriously doubt) just put it back together without gaskets and then change it.
The mechanics seem to be in a he said she said mode—how about some facts?? Do you know of
 
I THINK THIS THREAD HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
 
I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...
A LOT less than a new engine !!
Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.
Give it a go !!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, over cranking and not starting causes the engine to flood??? A flooded engine presumably has its cylinders full of water. Water does not compress so the engine would not turn over. The term used is the engine is  hydrauliced" . This happens sometimes on powerboats with running engines when water enters through the air intake. The resulting sudden stop breaks con rods and or crank shafts.
ergo. Flooded engines don't turn over.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Saturday, 12 December 2015 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
The siphon break is likely stainless steel as there is no visible corrosion on the outside (but it could be chrome-plated brass) - it is definitely not plastic. I did no more than about 3 cranks back in June before I shut off the intake. Water might have snuck in, but the engine would not start and did not flood with water. I am sure about that.

I will take off the head to find out what is going on - either before yanking out the engine, or after the fact. But at this stage (6 months of testing, investigation, research, and opinions from many informed sources) I still intend to replace the engine, as I can NEVER go through this again, regardless of how "simple" it might be to solve once we truly ID the culprit(s). I cannot imagine the frustration if this happened in the middle of "nowhere." If I can figure out why it will not start, it might command a higher trade-in value. Who knows.

Thanks for the support. Not sure if a record posting is an honor or not - sure would be though if I had gotten the engine running again. Definitely a topic for discussion.............

Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54



On Friday, December 11, 2015 2:07 PM, "seafeverofcuan@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hi Jamie,
              Thank you for the reply. I am still unclear if the syphon break is brass or plastic, I am assuming plastic. If not then it is a potential source of raw water back flow.
My understanding of cranking a cold marine engine is, three cranks with a non start, go back and check everything.
There are three components for a diesel to run, clean air, fuel, and free exhaust so after checking all of those try two more cranks, total now of five cranks.
If it hasn't started, go no further as you are now in danger of flooding your engine.
At this point you must shut the sea chest and drain the sea water.

All of the above painstakingly explained to me numerous times by the best Yanmar technician I have met, Raphael Serrano in Mazatlan Mexico.  

I think you now have the record for the highest number of postings ever on one subject. There is a genuine common cause to help you resolve this, effectively.
Everyone who has my respect on this forum is asking the same question, which I am going to finally ask and then leave you in peace.

Why not pull the head ( for the sake of the price of a head gasket) and get some had, cold - possibly wet facts?

Whatever you do, we are all behind you and will continue to help when and where we can.

Good luck..

Trevor 
Seafever





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Indigo project

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

John,

Over on this side of the pond Popeye is also well known.. I just found it interesting when I heard the name in Colombia--  referring to the assassin.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 6:45 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Indigo project

 

 

Hi Eric, you have asked before and no I've never been to Columbia. I didn't name the boat. Are you familiar that during the second world war and rationing in the UK the government came up with a cartoon of a sailor who got super strong from eating spinach. His girlfriend was Olive Oyl and his daughter Sweet Pea. Our dinghy is Sweet Pea. Quite an innocent explanation for a boat name.

 

Cheers John Maramu #91 Popeye


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Hi,

We have repeated this over and over again. A borescope would be good. However if the head is removed you can also see the valves and seats.

Seems like everyone agrees the head should come off. If I was there I am sure it would be at most a 3-4 hour job depending on how much other stuff has to come off (heat exchanger (possibly ) etc.

There is nothing to lose. As stated a few hand tools is all that is necessary. If the engine is totally shot—(Which I seriously doubt) just put it back together without gaskets and then change it.

The mechanics seem to be in a he said she said mode—how about some facts?? Do you know of

occam's razor?

 

I THINK THIS THREAD HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...

A LOT less than a new engine !!

Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.

Give it a go !!

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Mara Polars

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Alan,

Thank you so much for your effort.

I will enter this into Predict Wind which will give me a much more accurate planned passage.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:43 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Mara Polars

 

 

Eric,

I just uploaded to the files section the Amel polar files in various formats....they're all entitled Amel.something

There's one, which came from the French site that shows sailing at less than 50 degrees which I wouldn't use at all...not realistic ... the others are Bills polar and a modified version by me of Bills polar based on my experience.

Hope it helps

Cheers

Alan 

Elyse Sm437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help with explanation of terms in re Santorin, 1993

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Just a guess but PCMC might be some language for a pactor modem.

Just an oddball guess.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:38 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help with explanation of terms in re Santorin, 1993

 

 

I have no idea what PCMC refers to

Blusangean means BLU, which is french for SSB, Single Side Band radiuo...and Sangean is a brand of SSB radio.

'Hope that helps

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

A thorough prop cleaning solved my problem.  RPMs went from 1800 to 3100 and pushed boat to over 9 knots.. At next haul out in July,  I will  properly service prop.  Thanks to all for  solid  guidance on this issue .  

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
SM #347

On Dec 6, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I can, after I rebuild it, but I'm very happy with my MaxProp and really just need a spare prop.
Either would work fin temporarily.
Kent


On Dec 6, 2015, at 6:47 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Can’t you use the autoprop with your new engine?

It is such a great prop.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 6:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

 

 

When I was told by Bruntons that my Autoprop was what they recommended for a SM with 100 HP Yanmar, I had my fixed prop (which a good prop shop said was also over pitched for my 78 HP Volvo) repitched to what was recommended and got good rpm  again.  The Autoprop couldn't be repitched, so I replaced it with a MaxProp...not so persnickety as the AutoProp.

I wish I'd serviced the Autoprop first, it might have saved me 1000's of $.

 

I still have the repitched fixed prop (which is now under pitched for my new 110 Yanmar), and the old Autoprop which still hasn't been rebuilt.

If any one would like to buy either of these (but not both) I'd be happy to sell it for about half price plus shipping.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy 

Karkauai at yahoo dot com


On Dec 6, 2015, at 5:20 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

On kimberlite I had a loss of engine power. I tried everything and finally decided it was the prop. I ordered the stuff from AB marine and rented the tools. When I hauled the boat everything seemed fine . There was no play in the prop blades and everything spun freely---What the heck- I rebuilt the prop.

That was the problem. It is hard to believe that a few thousands of an inch makes a difference in the Autoprop performance, but it does.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 4:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] LOW ENGINE RPMS ON YANMAR 75

 

 

Ben,

When I had loss of rpm with my Volvo, I had the Autoprop cleaned and even out of the water all the blades spun freely on the hub.  I know that the only thing I didn't do (because I didn't know better, was to have the prop serviced.  Others have said that solved their problem.  If its been awhile since it was serviced, I'd do that even if the blades spin freely.

Kent

SM 243

Kristy 



On Dec 6, 2015, at 5:54 AM, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks.   I'm diving the boat today .. It seems most feel prop is most likely.  If not, I'll move through all suggested fixes 

Thanks 

Ben Driver 

SM 347

La Bella Vita


Ben Driver


On Dec 4, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Ben,

 

I have a Volvo TDM 22 but diesels are diesels…

 

I encountered these symptoms on another boat… badly crusted propeller…

 

Other cause might be a faulty turbocharger.  Generally, we tend to baby our engines and this is not good.  I try to run at 80% or more power for 1 hour out of every 24 hrs of engine time.

 

Third possibility = a collapsed air filter.  BTDT.

 

Good luck.. at least the trouble shooting should be easy.

 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain,

SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007

Porto Turistico Marina di Ragusa, Pontoon M15,

97100 Ragusa, Sicily, Italy
+44 7551 211 511
sy.eleuthera@...

 

 

On 4 Dec 2015, at 17:09, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

I bought my SM in Feb 2015  and there are still many systems I need to better understand.  Most perplexing is I have seen declining engine RPMs since original survey.  Originally boat produced about 3100 RPMs (Yanmar manual says 3600/3800 tops - but I do know Autoprop may limit that number)  but has since declined to 1800.  Not sure why as engine seems to run fine - easy start, no smoke, no roughness at any RPM.  Racor and engine filters are new.  Manual shut off valve in passageway  is wide open (it actually will not shut off motor... but that's another issue).   I do have an Autoprop which was serviced well over a year ago - but not sure - by previous owner. Only other engine oddity as it runs very cold - never over 130F.   Boat has been in the water now for a little over a year with not much motor use.  Any and all suggestions would be welcome. 

 

Ben Driver

SM #347

La Bella Vita

 


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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Jeff Wingfield <ki4jde@...>
 

We have one. 

Jeff
LAST TANGO


On Dec 12, 2015, at 10:18, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Of course he checked the secret switch! Jamie, please tell me that you know about the secret switch? Although Jamie's is a 54...and I do not know if the new Amel management carried that forward.

Bill
BeBe

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jamie,

May I suggest, as others have, to let the mechanic do the inspection, testing, disassembly, and rebuild as needed. Annapolis has some of the best and numerous mechanics in the world, plus about 200 waterman who could rebuild a engine in a weekend. If you give them a basket of parts, they won’t touch it.  In my kitchen business, if a customer wants to help, we add 25% and cancel the warranty.  Six months has gone by and you haven’t gone sailing on what I heard is a pristine Amel. Winter is a perfect time to have someone to pull the engine, fix it, and get you sailing in the Spring. See you on the bay.  Would this “secret switch” be a possibility? I don’t have one.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

Alright, you all have convinced me to take off the head and check it out. We shall see.

Thanks,

Jamie

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...

A LOT less than a new engine !!

Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.

Give it a go !!

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Peter Forbes
 

Bill, the 54 has a secret switch. Peter


On 12 Dec 2015, at 11:18, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Of course he checked the secret switch! Jamie, please tell me that you know about the secret switch? Although Jamie's is a 54...and I do not know if the new Amel management carried that forward.

Bill
BeBe

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Jamie,

May I suggest, as others have, to let the mechanic do the inspection, testing, disassembly, and rebuild as needed. Annapolis has some of the best and numerous mechanics in the world, plus about 200 waterman who could rebuild a engine in a weekend. If you give them a basket of parts, they won’t touch it.  In my kitchen business, if a customer wants to help, we add 25% and cancel the warranty.  Six months has gone by and you haven’t gone sailing on what I heard is a pristine Amel. Winter is a perfect time to have someone to pull the engine, fix it, and get you sailing in the Spring. See you on the bay.  Would this “secret switch” be a possibility? I don’t have one.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

Alright, you all have convinced me to take off the head and check it out. We shall see.

Thanks,

Jamie

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...

A LOT less than a new engine !!

Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.

Give it a go !!

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Interesting idea - I have a basic bore scope, but I am not sure the head would fit into the bottom injector port, which is really small.
Are there ones specifically for inspection through an injector hole?



On Saturday, December 12, 2015 12:04 PM, "Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Jamie why not pull the injectors buy a bore scope and have a look. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Dec 12, 2015, at 10:50, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Thanks, Just knew that a diesel will run if the Key is turned off and that I could hot wire start at the engine bypassing the key.
Ric
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
 
The motor will not turn over if the so called "secret switch" is off
Michael Last
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2015 7:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
Of course he checked the secret switch! Jamie, please tell me that you know about the secret switch? Although Jamie's is a 54...and I do not know if the new Amel management carried that forward.
 
Bill
BeBe
 
On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Jamie,
May I suggest, as others have, to let the mechanic do the inspection, testing, disassembly, and rebuild as needed. Annapolis has some of the best and numerous mechanics in the world, plus about 200 waterman who could rebuild a engine in a weekend. If you give them a basket of parts, they won’t touch it.  In my kitchen business, if a customer wants to help, we add 25% and cancel the warranty.  Six months has gone by and you haven’t gone sailing on what I heard is a pristine Amel. Winter is a perfect time to have someone to pull the engine, fix it, and get you sailing in the Spring. See you on the bay.  Would this “secret switch” be a possibility? I don’t have one.
Ric
Bali Hai SN24
Annapolis
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
 
Alright, you all have convinced me to take off the head and check it out. We shall see.
Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54
 
 
On Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...
A LOT less than a new engine !!
Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.
Give it a go !!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
 
 
 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Jamie why not pull the injectors buy a bore scope and have a look. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All
Capt Richard 
RP Yacht Brokerage
Newport RI 
We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's
Cell 603 767 5330

On Dec 12, 2015, at 10:50, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks, Just knew that a diesel will run if the Key is turned off and that I could hot wire start at the engine bypassing the key.

Ric

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

The motor will not turn over if the so called "secret switch" is off

Michael Last

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2015 7:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

Of course he checked the secret switch! Jamie, please tell me that you know about the secret switch? Although Jamie's is a 54...and I do not know if the new Amel management carried that forward.

 

Bill

BeBe

 

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jamie,

May I suggest, as others have, to let the mechanic do the inspection, testing, disassembly, and rebuild as needed. Annapolis has some of the best and numerous mechanics in the world, plus about 200 waterman who could rebuild a engine in a weekend. If you give them a basket of parts, they won’t touch it.  In my kitchen business, if a customer wants to help, we add 25% and cancel the warranty.  Six months has gone by and you haven’t gone sailing on what I heard is a pristine Amel. Winter is a perfect time to have someone to pull the engine, fix it, and get you sailing in the Spring. See you on the bay.  Would this “secret switch” be a possibility? I don’t have one.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

Alright, you all have convinced me to take off the head and check it out. We shall see.

Thanks,

Jamie

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...

A LOT less than a new engine !!

Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.

Give it a go !!

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Bill, Mark, Alain, Bob & Suzanne, Colin & Laura,

                           

 Thanks for all your comments. Really useful and encouraging.

 I look forward to hearing of Sabbatical's experience next spring.


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Preveza




From: amelyachtowners@... on behalf of Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: 12 December 2015 09:18
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu
 


Bill & Ian
Yes Riza does sell ACMO rigging. We purchased a complete set from him recently and had it air freighted to Australia along with a set of his davits. Everything arrived perfectly to spec and it has been easy for a local rigger install it for us. With all but the forestay and triac already fitted we have not had any problems replacing the rigging so far at all and absolutely every bit is new. Price was a little higher than the other quotes I've seen on this forum, plus we had to pay airfreight and import duty into Australia unfortunately, however with the Indian, two Atlantic crossings and the Pacific in front of us the investment provided good peace of mind rather than having it made up locally.
Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53
Brisbane, Australia



On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:17 AM, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,    Thanks. We are looking closely at whether to cruise Turkey next year, though conscious of  an old John Wayne line about why put yourself in a place of danger, so we will see how the refugee and Daesh story unfolds. It does seem that a lot of boats have already pulled out in the last few months, which could make Turkey the bargain of the E Med.
 We are safely tucked up ashore but the Ionian could become a rather crowded sea next year.
 In the meantime, if anyone has a good story about where to re-rig, using ACMO gear, in Turkey or Greece, it would be good to know.

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM302, Preveza


To: amelyachtowners@...
From: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 14:02:17 +0000
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu



Ian, last time I was at Emek, they had new inventory from ACMO for a Super Maramu.

I do not know the price, or whether they still have it, but it might be worth getting in touch with them...I think that they are a distributor for ACMO. I am fairly sure that EMEK subcontracts rigging work, just as Amel does at both yards. I do not know anyone that has had rigging work done at Emek.

Bill
BeBe #387
Tenerife Canary Islands

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Bob,
                   I am interested to see that you are in Fethiye. Are you at the Emek yard and if so are you looking to have them rerig you ? Do you know of anyone else who has been rerigged there and if so what there experience was ? We have that in mind for next year, though we are watching the Turkish political situation carefully. My guess is that Fethiye is too far east to be involved with the refugee problems, but it would be interesting to hear from the front line,as it were.

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Greece
 


To: amelyachtowners@...
From: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 02:30:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: current cost of ACMO rigging for Super Maramu



Hi Mark,
Does the €7500 include VAT?  If it is shipped to you in Turkey is their an import duty there as well?

Bob SV KAIMI 429 Fethiye, Turkey









--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Thanks, Just knew that a diesel will run if the Key is turned off and that I could hot wire start at the engine bypassing the key.

Ric

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 10:24 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

The motor will not turn over if the so called "secret switch" is off

Michael Last

 

svcallisto.blogspot.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2015 7:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

Of course he checked the secret switch! Jamie, please tell me that you know about the secret switch? Although Jamie's is a 54...and I do not know if the new Amel management carried that forward.

 

Bill

BeBe

 

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Jamie,

May I suggest, as others have, to let the mechanic do the inspection, testing, disassembly, and rebuild as needed. Annapolis has some of the best and numerous mechanics in the world, plus about 200 waterman who could rebuild a engine in a weekend. If you give them a basket of parts, they won’t touch it.  In my kitchen business, if a customer wants to help, we add 25% and cancel the warranty.  Six months has gone by and you haven’t gone sailing on what I heard is a pristine Amel. Winter is a perfect time to have someone to pull the engine, fix it, and get you sailing in the Spring. See you on the bay.  Would this “secret switch” be a possibility? I don’t have one.

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 

 

Alright, you all have convinced me to take off the head and check it out. We shall see.

Thanks,

Jamie

s/v Phantom Amel 54

 

 

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...

A LOT less than a new engine !!

Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.

Give it a go !!

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

svcallisto369
 

The motor will not turn over if the so called "secret switch" is off

Michael Last
 
svcallisto.blogspot.com


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2015 7:19 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54

 
Of course he checked the secret switch! Jamie, please tell me that you know about the secret switch? Although Jamie's is a 54...and I do not know if the new Amel management carried that forward.

Bill
BeBe

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Jamie,
May I suggest, as others have, to let the mechanic do the inspection, testing, disassembly, and rebuild as needed. Annapolis has some of the best and numerous mechanics in the world, plus about 200 waterman who could rebuild a engine in a weekend. If you give them a basket of parts, they won’t touch it.  In my kitchen business, if a customer wants to help, we add 25% and cancel the warranty.  Six months has gone by and you haven’t gone sailing on what I heard is a pristine Amel. Winter is a perfect time to have someone to pull the engine, fix it, and get you sailing in the Spring. See you on the bay.  Would this “secret switch” be a possibility? I don’t have one.
Ric
Bali Hai SN24
Annapolis
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:51 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Engine Problems Amel 54
 
 
Alright, you all have convinced me to take off the head and check it out. We shall see.
Thanks,
Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54
 
 
On Saturday, December 12, 2015 4:46 AM, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
I would absolutely agree....pulling the head is not a big job...and it lets you see the guts of the engine...maybe it is buggered...but it may not be...all you need is a good socket set and some spanners and screw drivers, and hours work...
A LOT less than a new engine !!
Almost any diesel engine can be repaired...they are the most robust means of propulsion known to man.
Give it a go !!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437