Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maintenance SSB antenna

bob Sarff <bob.sarff@...>
 

Alan, I have a Maramu and use the backstay as my SSB antenna.  It's been working well.  I was wondering if lengthening the antenna by  connecting my insulated triatic with gto-15 cable would improve reception/transmission.  

Thanks for any advise you can offer.
 
Bob
SV Chara
Currently in Fiji 

On Mar 2, 2016, at 7:45 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The insulated triatic is not useable as an SSB antenna.To answer the question though, the core of the coax is connected to the insulated triatic, the shiled is not connected to anything.

The triatic may work as a weatherfax receiver (its original intention) but as an SSB antenna it is useless...I know from experience.
I connected my antenna wire from the tuner to the main backstay and it worked well. WE now have an insulated backstay for our SSB antenna...insulated only to prevent shocking the crew...the Amel rig is not grounded.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Desallator Duo 60 220v problem -

chris2price@...
 

Many thanks for the advice.  I've been in touch with Dessolator & they say the same thing.  I'll buy a new capacitor !


H2O maker- third

hanspeter baettig
 

I never mentioned to flush the watermaker with chemicals twice per week ?!?
The chemical addetive is only for hybernation or during wintering when you do not use the h2o maker > 4-6 month. According to Dessalator it is not necessary to flush the membrans with fresh water twice per week or lets say every time when you are yousing the watermaker for producing fresh water. Logically the memgrans are wet. It is sufficiant to flush the h2o maker ~ 2-3 week interval. Therefor you save fresh water, and thats all about.
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 01.03.2016 um 16:25 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I think that you may be describing what Dessalator calls the "sterilizing cartridge." It does work well using the "flush" procedure. I have the sterilizing cartridge, but no longer use it.

I did something different for when our boat may be unattended. I make sure the fresh water tank is full. I have a programmable 24VDC timer and a 24VDC valve that is set to flush the membranes 2 times a week for 5 minutes. This uses about 30 liters of fresh water a week. If the tank is full I can easily leave the boat for 30 weeks. I leave it ON all the time, even when I am on the boat because previous to this addition, I would forget to flush twice a week. In my opinion, keeping the membranes wet with fresh water is a much better solution than using caustic chemicals.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:29 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Colin.
Btw I installed also last year the Duo watermaker 100 l. Very good watermaker!
I spoke recently at the Paris boat show with Mr. Wagner jun., the owner of Dessalator. He showd me his new hibernation system for the watermakers, a semi automatic system. Its a tube where you put in the prefilter, put in the chemicals and then you switch on without pressure the system, that means you do not have to disconnect any houses. It was new for me, maybe other members know it already. Everything on spare parts are of curse on the dessalators website (also in eng.)
I heard from very good friends that Brisbane is a lovely sailing area and an interessting city.
Kind regards
Hanspeter
Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 01.03.2016 um 09:43 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately you miss-read what I wrote there, and on reading it again now I can see why, and that it is my fault and I should write things more clearly on this forum.

Anyhow, what I said (or meant to say) was that the davits cost us approximately 25% less than if I had ordered similar davits to be welded up and made for our boat by an Australian davit maker. Twice before I have had davits made here in Australia (once for an Island Packet 40, and the other for a South Coast 36 design) and each time we spent approximately $15,000 AUD on these. However neither were as well made and as large as the ones from Turkey so I assume such a set would be a fair bit more for an Amel 53, possibly around $20,000 AUD. Therefore Emerek's price was 25% cheaper even after all the duty etc.

Although Australia is a beautiful country to cruise in and visit, unfortunately it is a very expensive place for boating works and equipment and this is why we took the opportunity to add many many things onto our Amel such as a new 100 l/hr 240v/24v duo watermaker, a second full auto-pilot with quick change over switch, new radios, GPS, AIS, Sails,.......etc etc when we had our boat in the Canary Islands in 2011 as it was so very cheap there compared to doing all this work back here in Australia.

Also the solar panels and controllers were very reasonably priced - we got two 260w panels (total 540w) plus a Tracer MPPT controller with MT50 display all of which did not cost much at all (purchased new on E-Bay) and which we installed ourselves. So I would think that Kent's proposed budget of US$18,000 is actually a very realistic figure to have all this equipment added. I would be surprised if it cost him more that that.

Please don't think that you disturb me with your questions at all. Quite to the contrary questions from very experienced members such you on this site is of great benefit to us all especially since you have now more that 20 years experience sailing an Amel. This is what actually makes this site so valuable in my view.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

Ian Park
 

I guess this means that the Santorin does not have a dedicated SSB ground. Mine therefore must be connected to the zincs, which is why they are wearing more quickly.
How have other Santorins grounded SSBs?

Ian. 'OceN Hobo' SN96

Sent from my iPod


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello again Kent!
Did some late night work and tanks to your input I found the wire from the zink and connected that to the bilge ground strap, so now there is no resistance between the Zink and the rudder post or the zink and the prop shaft everything seams to be alright, but still with the BLU disconnected at the chart table it is still full contact between the cooper strap in the aft lazaret and the ground strap and bye that also the zink. So still not solved my original problem! to get the sintered plates disconnected from the zink. But know much more about the ground system and can now label a few wires, which i did not know where they went

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maintenance SSB antenna

Alan Leslie
 

The insulated triatic is not useable as an SSB antenna.To answer the question though, the core of the coax is connected to the insulated triatic, the shiled is not connected to anything.
The triatic may work as a weatherfax receiver (its original intention) but as an SSB antenna it is useless...I know from experience.
I connected my antenna wire from the tuner to the main backstay and it worked well. WE now have an insulated backstay for our SSB antenna...insulated only to prevent shocking the crew...the Amel rig is not grounded.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

Paul Osterberg
 

Kent!
Thank you very much this will help a lot
Unfortunately I'm leaving the boat for a 14 night and have to clear out all the wires then.
But I'm sure it will be much easier with this input
Thank again.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: What size of anchor Rockna for Maramu.

JP Mans
 

OK David
But il will be in April, my boat is in Grece and I only will be there at this time.
Friendly
Jean-Paul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

karkauai
 

Hi Paul.  It's very important that you understand the bonding system.  If not correct, your underwater metals are at risk of galvanic and possibly electrolytic corrosion.

There are five "grounding" systems on your boat.  They are mostly separate from each other.  Three of them use yellow/green wires...very confusing.

1.  The bonding system connects all metals exposed to sea water.  It is ultimately connected to the zincs on the rudder via a large y/g wire from the engine or aft end of the angle iron engine supports.  It runs aft along the port side and ends at the rudder post under the starboard seat in the aft cabin.  It connects to the stainless skeleton of the rudder, and the zincs bolt into that skeleton.  It also connects to the discharge valve and intake through-hull for the aft head, and forward metals exposed to sea water at the A/C pump discharge and (I think) the bow thruster. All metals exposed to sea water should show a solid connection to this system and therefore to the zincs.  Most of the bonding wires from forward of the engine room connect to the copper strap that bolts to the keel in the bilge sump, and a large wire also goes from that strap to the engine or its angle iron bed.
Get a long enough wire to get to all parts of the boat and check the resistance between the rudder post and the zincs.  There should be NO resistance (i.e. a solid connection). Then check for resistance between rudder post and all metals exposed to sea water. Anywhere you find more than minimal resistance, check the connections and repair.  A fault in any raw water pump may make a connection between the DC system and bonding.  This most commonly occurs at the macerator pumps for the heads.

2.& 3.  DC ground, both 24v and 12v systems.  Wires are usually blue, but if work has been done in the US they are probably black.  All negative wires should run from the motor or other appliance directly to the 12 or 24v battery negative...NOT through the engine block as is typical on US manufactured boats.  (The only exception is the start, stop, and glow plug wires from engine and generator.  These are grounded to the engine, but the large wire that connects the engine block to the battery negative (12v system) goes through a solenoid that makes negative connection only when glow, start, or stop is activated.  This is an "isolated ground" system.  It does NOT connect to the bonding system except for the brief time that the engine or generator are being started or stopped.)  If you find a connection between battery negative and the bonding system, something is connected wrong and should be corrected.

4.  220AC ground.  These are y/g wires just like the bonding system.  They should lead from 220 appliances back to the boat's 220 ground, not through the bonding system.  There are a few places where a connection to the bonding system may occur, such as the AC Watermaker pump or Air Conditioner raw water pump, and at the generator (see earlier posts).

5.  Single Sideband Antenna ground.  This is also a g/y wire like the bonding system, marked BLU where it comes into the navigation station.  It should connect the SSB radio to the antenna (and the copper strap in the aft lazarette, and the SSB plates on the rudder), NOT to the bonding system.  In boats that did NOT come from Amel with a SSB radio, this g/y wire marked BLU is connected to the bonding system at a post behind the Nav station.  If your SSB was added later, it may still be connected to the bonding system, and should be disconnected.

I'm pretty sure this is all said correctly, anyone who sees something that's not right, please correct me.  After any corrections are made, I'll post it to the Files section.

Hope this is clear, Paul.  If not I'll try again..

Kent
SM 243
Kristy




On Mar 1, 2016, at 10:31 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Paul,

You said, "The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other."

The bolts on the rudder holding the zincs SHOULD be connected electrically with each other and to the bonding system. You should be able to check continuity between the propeller shaft and the zincs on the rudder. If there is not continuity (electrical connection) between the propeller shaft and the zincs, you probably have a problem with the bonding system not being connected to the motor and C Drive.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:54 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Vladimir

I have tried your concept with  cleaning and now they conduct and have electric contact with the copper strip in the lazaret. Don't understand what you mean by all grounds connect to the rudder. I have checked and there are no connection with the zink on the rudder I believe, and do not understand how it could be. The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

Patrick McAneny
 

Joel, That was interesting , its good to hear confirmation of what you believe to be true. Could you address the backstays, I have never kept them nearly as tight and have gathered that they are not suppose to be. Could you comment on how tight is right .
Thanks Joel,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: n33077@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Mar 1, 2016 9:22 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

 
I think I just found it:
o understand why the rig tension on an Amel is so very different than
on other fiberglass boats, we must first consider and understand the
structural differences that Amel boats have compared to more ordinary
boats from other builders.



Amel boats are true monocoque structures. An egg is a perfect
monocoque structure, as an illustration. If you take an egg and place
it in the palm of your hand, wrap your fingers around it evenly, and
then squeeze as hard as you possibly can, it will not break. Go ahead,
off to the fridge you go...I'll wait.



See what I mean? Only if you "point load"/unequally squeeze the egg
will it crush. Great party trick by the way...



Recall the recent story about Eric Freedman and being inside his Amel
offshore in hurricane wind and seas; not a sound inside. No creaking
or groaning. No oil canning. No panel deflection... Amel boats are one
piece, no conventional hull to deck joint, they are very strong and
uncommonly rigid. They are a genuine monocoque.



On most fiberglass boats, the rig is tuned tight but when sailing, the
leeward shrouds flop around like al dente spaghetti while the windward
shrouds are tight as a drum. This is due primarily because of hull
flex. Even the better known "premium brands", you know who they are,
have this flexing in the hull.



THIS IS NOT GOOD. Fiberglass, just like metal, gets weaker and weaker
every time it is bent or flexed. Just as when one takes a paperclip
and bends it back and forth a few times and it breaks in two, a flexed
fiberglass hull gets weaker with use. Amel boats are designed not to
flex for good reason; they stay stronger and last longer that way. The
rigging needs to be exceptionally tight as well for reasons I'll
relate shortly.



Riggers will never believe this as it is contrary to what they know to
be usual and correct. Unless a rigger unfamiliar with and not
accepting of Amel idiosyncrasies can put his hands on an Amel that has
been tuned by Amel, they will never believe and will refuse to tune an
Amel to the tension that is required.



An Amel should be tuned so that the mast is absolutely straight and
perpendicular to the mast step/90 degrees. The shrouds should never be
loose on the leeward side even under the press of strong breeze. Just
a tad slack, but not loose and certainly not able to be moved back and
forth. The headstay should only have a very modest bend even in a good
breeze. I have tuned many Amel rigs and I can do it but it is hard to
tell you how tight is "tight". I don't use a strain gauge, I just do
it. I was a rigger in an earlier life so I know the sequence to follow
to get the right outcome but it is difficult to impart to you how
tight. REAL tight. Tight as you dare then a tad more. Ringing bronze
tight...ahh, what's the use......



Try to find an Amel that is owned by someone we (Amel and or me) sold
a boat to. We impress upon our new clients and my second hand boat
clients to take note of how tight the rig is and to keep it this way.
They usually do. Second only perhaps to mechanics who call all flaming
irate to tell me that the Amel drive system will never work (once or
twice a month sometimes) are the riggers who call to say the rig is
way too tight or to insist they won't tighten it up the way we tell
them too. It is the "not invented here syndrome" all over again. Ain't
what I am familiar with so there-fore it can't possibly
work...Sometimes they say uncharitable things about my ancestors...



What's the risk? Plenty. If the rig is loose, it can move around.
Combine wave action and puffy breeze and the rig can pump and move
around inches with tremendously quick acceleration and sudden
deceleration of all the rigging mass. This can more than double the
ultimate load placed on the rig and all the components. It will loosen
the boat up real quick. As mentioned before, that is not good for the
structure. Just imagine accelerated pulling/jolting on all the rig
points with wire connections; kinda like squeezing that egg unevenly,
no? Hmmmm...



Show this to your rigger. Have him call me if he says fiddlesticks.
Better yet have him call Amel. They may be a bit more, uh, forceful
than me (if that's possible...) but from the horses' mouth the truth
shall flow. Maybe they will believe the builder as they seldom think I
have it right. Best is to let them see a properly tuned Amel rig.



After new rigging is installed, Amel tuned tight, and sailed in heavy
breeze and seas, it will stretch as much as 8% and even more dependent
on the wire quality. Tune it tight again, then put the little bolts
and nuts back in the wire ends inside the turnbuckles (bet you
wondered why Amel does that..) and smile. You will only need to very
occasionally retune rig components as once it is right, it doesn't
move, it NEVER pumps, and it stays as it was meant to by God, Captain
Amel, and the entire Amel team. Me too.



Trust me on this or put your hands on a well kept Amel.



Have fun with your Maramu. They are very sweet sea boats.



All the best,

Joel



Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

401 East Las Olas Boulevard, #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301

Phone: (954) 462-5869

Email: jfpottercys@...

<http://www.yachtworld.com/jfpottercys>
Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC (Fort Lauderdale, FL)
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you for that Bill
After cleaning the threads on the bolt I  measure good contact between the two bolts holding the two zinks on the rudder. However when measuring between he bolts and the shaft I measure ca 1 k ohm resistance between the zink bolts and the shaft. I hd hoped for better connection
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Paul,

You said, "The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other."

The bolts on the rudder holding the zincs SHOULD be connected electrically with each other and to the bonding system. You should be able to check continuity between the propeller shaft and the zincs on the rudder. If there is not continuity (electrical connection) between the propeller shaft and the zincs, you probably have a problem with the bonding system not being connected to the motor and C Drive.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:54 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Vladimir

I have tried your concept with  cleaning and now they conduct and have electric contact with the copper strip in the lazaret. Don't understand what you mean by all grounds connect to the rudder. I have checked and there are no connection with the zink on the rudder I believe, and do not understand how it could be. The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I think that you may be describing what Dessalator calls the "sterilizing cartridge." It does work well using the "flush" procedure. I have the sterilizing cartridge, but no longer use it.

I did something different for when our boat may be unattended. I make sure the fresh water tank is full. I have a programmable 24VDC timer and a 24VDC valve that is set to flush the membranes 2 times a week for 5 minutes. This uses about 30 liters of fresh water a week. If the tank is full I can easily leave the boat for 30 weeks. I leave it ON all the time, even when I am on the boat because previous to this addition, I would forget to flush twice a week. In my opinion, keeping the membranes wet with fresh water is a much better solution than using caustic chemicals.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:29 PM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you Colin.
Btw I installed also last year the Duo watermaker 100 l. Very good watermaker!
I spoke recently at the Paris boat show with Mr. Wagner jun., the owner of Dessalator. He showd me his new hibernation system for the watermakers, a semi automatic system. Its a tube where you put in the prefilter, put in the chemicals and then you switch on without pressure the system, that means you do not have to disconnect any houses. It was new for me, maybe other members know it already. Everything on spare parts are of curse on the dessalators website (also in eng.)
I heard from very good friends that Brisbane is a lovely sailing area and an interessting city.
Kind regards
Hanspeter
Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 01.03.2016 um 09:43 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately you miss-read what I wrote there, and on reading it again now I can see why, and that it is my fault and I should write things more clearly on this forum.

Anyhow, what I said (or meant to say) was that the davits cost us approximately 25% less than if I had ordered similar davits to be welded up and made for our boat by an Australian davit maker. Twice before I have had davits made here in Australia (once for an Island Packet 40, and the other for a South Coast 36 design) and each time we spent approximately $15,000 AUD on these. However neither were as well made and as large as the ones from Turkey so I assume such a set would be a fair bit more for an Amel 53, possibly around $20,000 AUD. Therefore Emerek's price was 25% cheaper even after all the duty etc.

Although Australia is a beautiful country to cruise in and visit, unfortunately it is a very expensive place for boating works and equipment and this is why we took the opportunity to add many many things onto our Amel such as a new 100 l/hr 240v/24v duo watermaker, a second full auto-pilot with quick change over switch, new radios, GPS, AIS, Sails,.......etc etc when we had our boat in the Canary Islands in 2011 as it was so very cheap there compared to doing all this work back here in Australia.

Also the solar panels and controllers were very reasonably priced - we got two 260w panels (total 540w) plus a Tracer MPPT controller with MT50 display all of which did not cost much at all (purchased new on E-Bay) and which we installed ourselves. So I would think that Kent's proposed budget of US$18,000 is actually a very realistic figure to have all this equipment added. I would be surprised if it cost him more that that.

Please don't think that you disturb me with your questions at all. Quite to the contrary questions from very experienced members such you on this site is of great benefit to us all especially since you have now more that 20 years experience sailing an Amel. This is what actually makes this site so valuable in my view.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?
Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445



Re: Rig Tuning

n33077@...
 

I think I just found it:
o understand why the rig tension on an Amel is so very different than
on other fiberglass boats, we must first consider and understand the
structural differences that Amel boats have compared to more ordinary
boats from other builders.



Amel boats are true monocoque structures. An egg is a perfect
monocoque structure, as an illustration. If you take an egg and place
it in the palm of your hand, wrap your fingers around it evenly, and
then squeeze as hard as you possibly can, it will not break. Go ahead,
off to the fridge you go...I'll wait.



See what I mean? Only if you "point load"/unequally squeeze the egg
will it crush. Great party trick by the way...



Recall the recent story about Eric Freedman and being inside his Amel
offshore in hurricane wind and seas; not a sound inside. No creaking
or groaning. No oil canning. No panel deflection... Amel boats are one
piece, no conventional hull to deck joint, they are very strong and
uncommonly rigid. They are a genuine monocoque.



On most fiberglass boats, the rig is tuned tight but when sailing, the
leeward shrouds flop around like al dente spaghetti while the windward
shrouds are tight as a drum. This is due primarily because of hull
flex. Even the better known "premium brands", you know who they are,
have this flexing in the hull.



THIS IS NOT GOOD. Fiberglass, just like metal, gets weaker and weaker
every time it is bent or flexed. Just as when one takes a paperclip
and bends it back and forth a few times and it breaks in two, a flexed
fiberglass hull gets weaker with use. Amel boats are designed not to
flex for good reason; they stay stronger and last longer that way. The
rigging needs to be exceptionally tight as well for reasons I'll
relate shortly.



Riggers will never believe this as it is contrary to what they know to
be usual and correct. Unless a rigger unfamiliar with and not
accepting of Amel idiosyncrasies can put his hands on an Amel that has
been tuned by Amel, they will never believe and will refuse to tune an
Amel to the tension that is required.



An Amel should be tuned so that the mast is absolutely straight and
perpendicular to the mast step/90 degrees. The shrouds should never be
loose on the leeward side even under the press of strong breeze. Just
a tad slack, but not loose and certainly not able to be moved back and
forth. The headstay should only have a very modest bend even in a good
breeze. I have tuned many Amel rigs and I can do it but it is hard to
tell you how tight is "tight". I don't use a strain gauge, I just do
it. I was a rigger in an earlier life so I know the sequence to follow
to get the right outcome but it is difficult to impart to you how
tight. REAL tight. Tight as you dare then a tad more. Ringing bronze
tight...ahh, what's the use......



Try to find an Amel that is owned by someone we (Amel and or me) sold
a boat to. We impress upon our new clients and my second hand boat
clients to take note of how tight the rig is and to keep it this way.
They usually do. Second only perhaps to mechanics who call all flaming
irate to tell me that the Amel drive system will never work (once or
twice a month sometimes) are the riggers who call to say the rig is
way too tight or to insist they won't tighten it up the way we tell
them too. It is the "not invented here syndrome" all over again. Ain't
what I am familiar with so there-fore it can't possibly
work...Sometimes they say uncharitable things about my ancestors...



What's the risk? Plenty. If the rig is loose, it can move around.
Combine wave action and puffy breeze and the rig can pump and move
around inches with tremendously quick acceleration and sudden
deceleration of all the rigging mass. This can more than double the
ultimate load placed on the rig and all the components. It will loosen
the boat up real quick. As mentioned before, that is not good for the
structure. Just imagine accelerated pulling/jolting on all the rig
points with wire connections; kinda like squeezing that egg unevenly,
no? Hmmmm...



Show this to your rigger. Have him call me if he says fiddlesticks.
Better yet have him call Amel. They may be a bit more, uh, forceful
than me (if that's possible...) but from the horses' mouth the truth
shall flow. Maybe they will believe the builder as they seldom think I
have it right. Best is to let them see a properly tuned Amel rig.



After new rigging is installed, Amel tuned tight, and sailed in heavy
breeze and seas, it will stretch as much as 8% and even more dependent
on the wire quality. Tune it tight again, then put the little bolts
and nuts back in the wire ends inside the turnbuckles (bet you
wondered why Amel does that..) and smile. You will only need to very
occasionally retune rig components as once it is right, it doesn't
move, it NEVER pumps, and it stays as it was meant to by God, Captain
Amel, and the entire Amel team. Me too.



Trust me on this or put your hands on a well kept Amel.



Have fun with your Maramu. They are very sweet sea boats.



All the best,

Joel



Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

401 East Las Olas Boulevard, #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301

Phone: (954) 462-5869

Email: jfpottercys@...

<http://www.yachtworld.com/jfpottercys>
Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC (Fort Lauderdale, FL)

 


Rig Tuning

n33077@...
 

I just got my electric motors rebuilt.  Riggers got the forestay back up.  Now comes the question of tuning. I searched the site for Joel Potters   Rig Tuning           but did not find anything.


From the other posts I found that the rid is to be tight.  How tight?  My traidic is lose, and I am having the riggers come back and re-tune the rig (moving mast forward.)  Since the boat is a Sharki, I think I can use most of the info tailored to the Sharki.


I also posted this on the new site too..

Thanks


Aras

Sharki #163


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Maintenance SSB antenna

enio rossi
 

Thanks Eric, the insulated part of triatic is not a dipole. Well, the copper core of the coaxial is connected to the insulated  part of the triatic, but WHERE do I connect the shielding braid? A building site has replaced the triatic without reconnecting cables........ 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Solar. Wind gem and arch

karkauai
 

Thanks Pat. I thought that was the same as your arch.
Hi to Diane
Kent


On Mar 1, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent & Ian, I installed the same arch last year before heading to the Caribbean and it performed very well. We hoisted a 10,5 rib with 18 hp. outboard . We have three solar panels , a wind gen.,lights and wifi installed on it. I also added a diagonal . It only took about three hours to install and cost me about $1,200. It does come out of New Jersey and the company is Atlantic Towers . They ship it in a box in three parts which bolt together , has articulating mounts.
 Pat
SM Shenanigans
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: francesringley@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Feb 29, 2016 3:32 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Solar. Wind gem and arch

 
Kent, the company is in New Jersey I believe and they already have the measurements for the SM. Pretty straightforward to install. It took me two days. We have a 9 foot RIB and a 9.8hp 2~stroke outboard. I will lift both when at anchor but prefer to island hop with the outboard on the rail. I put the dinghy on the aft deck for longer passages.So far, with about 3000 bluewater miles experience with it, we are satisfied. I have added a cross rail for lateral support (does not come with the arch itself). Also, I will be installing a light gauge wire mizzen masthead stay that will split to each top corner of the arch to protect against any shocks. 

Ian
Loca Lola II
SM153


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you Vladimir
I have tried your concept with  cleaning and now they conduct and have electric contact with the copper strip in the lazaret. Don't understand what you mean by all grounds connect to the rudder. I have checked and there are no connection with the zink on the rudder I believe, and do not understand how it could be. The bolts on the rudder holding the zink are not connected electrically with each other
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Grounding

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Hi Paul,
You don't have to remove ground sintered plate for cleaning.
I just brushed on vinegar on the plate and brush it again with brass brush. It worked well. You can use some other well deluded acids.
Check all ground connects to the rudder.
Good luck to you.

On Mar 1, 2016 6:41 AM, "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
>
>  
>
> Hello!
> Jean-Pierre
> The intention is to connect the SSB to the provided ground the sintered plates on the skeg.
> I have now identified that one of the YG cables attached to the bilge ground strap also was connected with the copper strip in the after lazaret. That's good, but it looks as the sintered plates have been neglected for a long time i.e a lot of deposit in the pors, when testing with my multimeter by putting the probes to the sintered plates it gives no indication of conductivity, Which I guess they should have given. further they seam to be stuck I can't loosen the screw else I would put them in White vinegar.
> PAUL on S/Y Kerpa SM#259 
>
>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

hanspeter baettig
 

Thank you Colin.
Btw I installed also last year the Duo watermaker 100 l. Very good watermaker!
I spoke recently at the Paris boat show with Mr. Wagner jun., the owner of Dessalator. He showd me his new hibernation system for the watermakers, a semi automatic system. Its a tube where you put in the prefilter, put in the chemicals and then you switch on without pressure the system, that means you do not have to disconnect any houses. It was new for me, maybe other members know it already. Everything on spare parts are of curse on the dessalators website (also in eng.)
I heard from very good friends that Brisbane is a lovely sailing area and an interessting city.
Kind regards
Hanspeter
Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 01.03.2016 um 09:43 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately you miss-read what I wrote there, and on reading it again now I can see why, and that it is my fault and I should write things more clearly on this forum.

Anyhow, what I said (or meant to say) was that the davits cost us approximately 25% less than if I had ordered similar davits to be welded up and made for our boat by an Australian davit maker. Twice before I have had davits made here in Australia (once for an Island Packet 40, and the other for a South Coast 36 design) and each time we spent approximately $15,000 AUD on these. However neither were as well made and as large as the ones from Turkey so I assume such a set would be a fair bit more for an Amel 53, possibly around $20,000 AUD. Therefore Emerek's price was 25% cheaper even after all the duty etc.

Although Australia is a beautiful country to cruise in and visit, unfortunately it is a very expensive place for boating works and equipment and this is why we took the opportunity to add many many things onto our Amel such as a new 100 l/hr 240v/24v duo watermaker, a second full auto-pilot with quick change over switch, new radios, GPS, AIS, Sails,.......etc etc when we had our boat in the Canary Islands in 2011 as it was so very cheap there compared to doing all this work back here in Australia.

Also the solar panels and controllers were very reasonably priced - we got two 260w panels (total 540w) plus a Tracer MPPT controller with MT50 display all of which did not cost much at all (purchased new on E-Bay) and which we installed ourselves. So I would think that Kent's proposed budget of US$18,000 is actually a very realistic figure to have all this equipment added. I would be surprised if it cost him more that that.

Please don't think that you disturb me with your questions at all. Quite to the contrary questions from very experienced members such you on this site is of great benefit to us all especially since you have now more that 20 years experience sailing an Amel. This is what actually makes this site so valuable in my view.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, 'Hanspeter.baettig' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
Thanks for your interesting info. I have however a calculation problem, which I maybe make a mistske. In Kents mail he mentioned the cost for him for dingy/ solar arch (480 pw at least) about 18k US$.
You paid by Riza 25% less including all the extras (duty/transport/Vat)
I have it done also there. Its not Riza , its a exellent subcontracor , who did the job. And the very good electrician, paid by Riza, Tamar his name. 
That means you paid about 13500 US$ fot the complete arch incloudind the high performance batterie solar controler ?
I hope I do not disturbe you with my question, only I was wondering about the real cost.
Best regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2, SM #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 29.02.2016 um 13:36 schrieb Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Kent
Sorry for the delay as I just noticed your post now, and also thanks to Bill for the feedback on the US2200 which seem like a good option too with a slightly smaller footprint and height than the Trojans. A couple answers to Kent's questions:

1) Your cost estimates are about right for the arch and panels. We, along with many others on this site went with Riza's arch and had it shipped to Australia. The cost, even after having to pay import duty, customs, Australian GST was still about 25% cheaper than if I had a local Brisbane s/s welder make it for me. More importantly though was the fine job Riza did on it as he has all the curves in the right places compared to what I local welder would have done. We constantly have people stop at our dock and enquire where we had it made.

2) The downside I referred to is moving the engine battery from the internal battery compartment to the engine room and making up a new fibreglass waterproof battery box to sit across the engine and genset bearers against the rear wall of the engine room to the RHS of the Racor fuel filter with a separate set of battery switches. Whilst there are advantages in having a shorter cable run to start the motors, we have always been extremely reluctant to change anything on our boat from the original design as the previous owner had taken such great care of the boat with everything in almost "as new" condition when we got it despite it's age. Such a decision for us is a major issue (as was the decision to put an arch on the boat) to think very carefully about however there would be huge benefits in having 675 amp hours available.

3)  I am absolutely no expert in these matters compared to all the other regular contributors on this forum however I did notice from all the discussions that Danny has had his batteries (in the above format) since 2009 and that they are still going strong which could possibly be linked to having over 650 amp hours of storage (on the older 8+1 battery design SM2000) and never needing to run it down much compared to the rest of us with 650 amp hours storage and his solar and wind generator setup. I note you also picked up on this potential benefit of more battery longevity with a potentially higher amp hour storage.

This is very tempting indeed but today I fitted the first 8 Trojan T 105's (we now have 450 amp hours instead of the previous 360) and it is clear that I cannot fit another 4 in there due to the height of the box at the aft end where the last 2 batteries would need to go being only 265mm and the batteries 270mm. We would not want a situation where there is no air circulation room above the batteries. There is however a huge amount of room remaining - in fact enough to put in an additional two spare 12v engine started batteries (which are lower) - but not the required height for the 6v's. Based on this we will now stay with the 450 amp hours in the interim and see how we go. 

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hey Colin, et al,
I've been watching this thread with great interest.  It's great to hear all the different solutions to the Amel power  needs.  I'm still using the original configuration of 8 flooded lead acid 12v for the house bank.  They are inexpensive and easy to find anywhere.  I charge for an hour or a little more twice a day without supplemental solar or wind. I run the desalinator when charging  in clean water, and run the washer about twice a week.  I discharge to no lower than 24v, usually ~24.4v.

I'm really intrigued by the 12-6v house bank idea.  675 AH is significantly more than what I have, but not twice as much.  I would still have to charge twice a day without adding solar/wind.  The advantage seems to me to be discharging the batteries less, at least theoretically improving their longevity.    From experience of those who have done this, could I expect the batteries to last a lot longer (mine last 3-4 years now)?

If I were to add solar and/or wind I would want to add an arch/davits (on my wish list anyway) which would cost a total of ?$18-22K (is that a reasonable guesstimate for arch/davits/solar/ wind?).  Could I eliminate charging for the most part, or at least reduce my charging to once a day?  I would still need to run the generator to run the washer and watermaker which I would probably do at least twice a week.

I'm mostly thinking that the reduction in running the generator or added convenience would not justify the cost, unless adding solar and wind would mostly eliminate the need for daily charging.

Colin, you said you were going offline with this discussion after saying "Of course there are some downsides to this too".  Aside from the cost and added complexity and maintenance required when adding solar/wind, what other downsides do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Danny
Thanks, having done the measurements I can see how they would fit in with 3  banks of 4 x 6v if the engine battery is moved to the engine bay. This would leave plenty space in the the battery compartment and take our house battery  amps from 360 amps @ 24v (old 90amp 12v x 8 bat system) to 675amps @ 24v. Aĺl this in the smaller / older SM2000 8 house battery compartment.

Of course there are some downsides to this too. Will contact you direct as this thread has potentially gone on a little too long on the same topic now.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On 27 Feb 2016 10:51 am, "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Colin I missed the word "Trojan" in my last post. Pointless without it
Cheers
Danny


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "simms simms@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date:27/02/2016 11:29 (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Hi Colin.  Ocean pearl had 12 six volt golf cart batteries on purchase and they fitted. 
Cheers
Danny 
Sm 299 
Ocean pearl 


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date:27/02/2016  03:18  (GMT+12:00)
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Thanks Eric for following up. I will look out for those ones too as I am keen to see the dimensions for fit.  The best price on a Trojan T-105 here today was AUD$275. There is another USA brand equivalent called a US2200 with the same physical dimensions and 7 AMPS more storage at $235 each. The battery salesman recons that these are just as good as the Trojans ... but I have not heard of these before so am not so sure?

Interestingly we took our battery compartment internal measurements this afternoon and the height is problematic as the compartment is 1610mm long x 385mm wide but the depth slopes slightly from 260mm at the af




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Colin Streeter
0411 016 445




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Colin Streeter
0411 016 445