Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] aluminum track mounted with SS fasteners

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Hi Bill,

Stainless fasteners into aluminum around salt water can be a problem if not done properly.

“Properly” means keeping the stainless and aluminum electrically isolated from each other.  If you use a product call Tefgel on the screws before threading them in you will have no trouble taking them out. I have removed stainless screws set in aluminum masts and booms with tefgel 10 years before by hand. Similar screws without isolation required the services of a very hot torch to remove.

It’s expensive, but a little 5 cc syringe goes a very long way.

There might be other products that also work, but this one I know works as advertised, and I know it works for at least as long as I have been working on boats.

Bill Kinney
S/V Hormonie SM #160
Hollywood Florida

On Mar 4, 2016, at 19:10, william_maffei@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hello everyone  -


While I was doing the install on my new Antal car upgrade I previously talked of I decided that the main boom tracked needed an upgrade as well. I purchased a 5m long section of 31mm x 21mm track from Antal and the mounting screws that came with the track are stainless steel. (M8 x 1.25 x 50mm) Before doing the install of the new track I noticed that all the fasteners on the original Antal track are aluminum besides the fasteners of the end stops which are stainless steel with nylon washers. Am i correct to say that I should use the old aluminum fasteners instead of the SS fasteners that came with the track? Overtime, won't there be a reaction with the stainless steel fasteners and the aluminum of the track and the boom? Comments are always appreciated. 


Many Thanks,


Bill Maffei

SM #195

It's all Good 




aluminum track mounted with SS fasteners

william_maffei@...
 

Hello everyone  -


While I was doing the install on my new Antal car upgrade I previously talked of I decided that the main boom tracked needed an upgrade as well. I purchased a 5m long section of 31mm x 21mm track from Antal and the mounting screws that came with the track are stainless steel. (M8 x 1.25 x 50mm) Before doing the install of the new track I noticed that all the fasteners on the original Antal track are aluminum besides the fasteners of the end stops which are stainless steel with nylon washers. Am i correct to say that I should use the old aluminum fasteners instead of the SS fasteners that came with the track? Overtime, won't there be a reaction with the stainless steel fasteners and the aluminum of the track and the boom? Comments are always appreciated. 


Many Thanks,


Bill Maffei

SM #195

It's all Good 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Craig
Sounds pretty cool. Now I understand your trick. Thanks.
Cheers
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 04.03.2016 um 19:04 schrieb sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter,

Quite easy, actually. Assuming it was bent while off the boat in a yard, just do the opposite of what bent it in the first place!  :-)
Seriously, though, I've bent several masts back into column when they got bent in the yard - usually by cars accidentally backing into them.  Just a matter of applying enough force on the opposite side with logical blocking and cushioning. Usually used a fork lift truck to slowly apply pressure. Obviously, you can't go past the point of elastic deformation.
That being said, I'll bet this is not Enio's problem - he likely just needs a more systematic approach to the tuning. 
Cheers,
Craig SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello Craig
I like your wo rdings :-)
Take the mast down, bend it back so it is straight.
I'm wondering how you will do that ?

You have something invented in the US to do that. Let me know that is interessting :-)
Good sailing, and don't take that to serious
Hanspeter
SM 16 Tamango 2


Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 04.03.2016 um 14:58 schrieb sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...&g t;:

 

Hello Enio,

You may want to reread Joel's earlier post about tuning the masts independently, starting with the main. You should consider the triatic to be part of the mizzen and ignore it until you get the main straight and tight. Beyond that it is a little difficult to understand what the problem is. Have you tried slacking all the stays and seeing if the mast is straight? 
If it is straight with no tension on the stays, you should be able to keep it so as you tension the stays in the order Joel specified. Keep the triatic slack (by loosening the mizzen backs) until you are done with the main.
If it is still bent with all stays loose, perhaps it was bent by a yard at some point when it was off the boat (just guessing) - take it down and bend it back so it is straight. 
Let us know how you make out.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Flo rida
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
Yes, and 'wath i'm doing, but becomes to loose the triatic, which has a fixed lenght, and the main mast seems to bend at the lower spreads. This also tightening the lower shrouds aft..........Thanks. Enio 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Hanspeter,
Quite easy, actually. Assuming it was bent while off the boat in a yard, just do the opposite of what bent it in the first place!  :-)
Seriously, though, I've bent several masts back into column when they got bent in the yard - usually by cars accidentally backing into them.  Just a matter of applying enough force on the opposite side with logical blocking and cushioning. Usually used a fork lift truck to slowly apply pressure. Obviously, you can't go past the point of elastic deformation.
That being said, I'll bet this is not Enio's problem - he likely just needs a more systematic approach to the tuning. 
Cheers,
Craig SN68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote :

Hello Craig
I like your wordings :-)
Take the mast down, bend it back so it is straight.
I'm wondering how you will do that ?

You have something invented in the US to do that. Let me know that is interessting :-)
Good sailing, and don't take that to serious
Hanspeter
SM 16 Tamango 2


Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 04.03.2016 um 14:58 schrieb sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello Enio,

You may want to reread Joel's earlier post about tuning the masts independently, starting with the main. You should consider the triatic to be part of the mizzen and ignore it until you get the main straight and tight. Beyond that it is a little difficult to understand what the problem is. Have you tried slacking all the stays and seeing if the mast is straight? 
If it is straight with no tension on the stays, you should be able to keep it so as you tension the stays in the order Joel specified. Keep the triatic slack (by loosening the mizzen backs) until you are done with the main.
If it is still bent with all stays loose, perhaps it was bent by a yard at some point when it was off the boat (just guessing) - take it down and bend it back so it is straight. 
Let us know how you make out.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Flo rida
---In amelyachtowners@..., <rossienio@...> wrote :
Yes, and 'wath i'm doing, but becomes to loose the triatic, which has a fixed lenght, and the main mast seems to bend at the lower spreads. This also tightening the lower shrouds aft..........Thanks. Enio 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Equivalent Perkins engine to Volvo TDM 22

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Yes I do. Got it from Steve and Liz. It is a 1992 M80T with about 4500 hours and in great condition. Contact me direct via email to discuss. Know Deltaville well.

ric@... .  

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 11:30 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Equivalent Perkins engine to Volvo TDM 22

 

 

Hi Ric in Annapolis:
Are you saying you have a Perkins M80T engine to sell?  what would be the cost, year and hours?  I own SM #105 currently in Deltaville, VA.
Thank you


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Plastic cover boom gearbox engine

Dan Wilcox
 

HI All.  I recently had to replace both gearboxes on my Super Maramu and had both Cima motors refurbished.  The secret to the white plastic sock is heat.  You can use a hair drier or better yet a heat gun and warm it up.  It then turns semi pliable and will slip on or off with no damage from prying.  Good Luck.

Thanks, Dan
s/v Feierabend
1992 Super Maramu # 86


On Friday, March 4, 2016 8:14 AM, davidlambertsen wrote:


 
All,
On my Maramu #258,  the 12 volt main mast furler motors are made by Cima in Italy, but are no longer available.  Best to keep fixing what you have.  Amel can supply a LeRoy Sommers replacement, if needed.
The Bonfiglioli gearboxes actually call for gear oil, not grease, but I still think the grease nipple is a good idea.

Bonfiglioli gearboxes are easily available from Drivetech Automation in Sunrise Florida.  Contact Mitch Silverman at "msilverman at "drivetechonline" dot "com".  He is very responsive.

David Lambertsen
s/v Have Fun!
1989 Maramu 258



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

hanspeter baettig
 

Hello Craig
I like your wordings :-)
Take the mast down, bend it back so it is straight.
I'm wondering how you will do that ?

You have something invented in the US to do that. Let me know that is interessting :-)
Good sailing, and don't take that to serious
Hanspeter
SM 16 Tamango 2


Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 04.03.2016 um 14:58 schrieb sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello Enio,

You may want to reread Joel's earlier post about tuning the masts independently, starting with the main. You should consider the triatic to be part of the mizzen and ignore it until you get the main straight and tight. Beyond that it is a little difficult to understand what the problem is. Have you tried slacking all the stays and seeing if the mast is straight? 
If it is straight with no tension on the stays, you should be able to keep it so as you tension the stays in the order Joel specified. Keep the triatic slack (by loosening the mizzen backs) until you are done with the main.
If it is still bent with all stays loose, perhaps it was bent by a yard at some point when it was off the boat (just guessing) - take it down and bend it back so it is straight. 
Let us know how you make out.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Flo rida
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :
Yes, and 'wath i'm doing, but becomes to loose the triatic, which has a fixed lenght, and the main mast seems to bend at the lower spreads. This also tightening the lower shrouds aft..........Thanks. Enio 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Equivalent Perkins engine to Volvo TDM 22

jsrogers@...
 

Hi Ric in Annapolis:
Are you saying you have a Perkins M80T engine to sell?  what would be the cost, year and hours?  I own SM #105 currently in Deltaville, VA.
Thank you


Re: Plastic cover boom gearbox engine

davidlambertsen <no_reply@...>
 

All,
On my Maramu #258,  the 12 volt main mast furler motors are made by Cima in Italy, but are no longer available.  Best to keep fixing what you have.  Amel can supply a LeRoy Sommers replacement, if needed.
The Bonfiglioli gearboxes actually call for gear oil, not grease, but I still think the grease nipple is a good idea.

Bonfiglioli gearboxes are easily available from Drivetech Automation in Sunrise Florida.  Contact Mitch Silverman at "msilverman at "drivetechonline" dot "com".  He is very responsive.

David Lambertsen
s/v Have Fun!
1989 Maramu 258


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

Craig Briggs
 

Hello Enio,
You may want to reread Joel's earlier post about tuning the masts independently, starting with the main. You should consider the triatic to be part of the mizzen and ignore it until you get the main straight and tight. Beyond that it is a little difficult to understand what the problem is. Have you tried slacking all the stays and seeing if the mast is straight? 
If it is straight with no tension on the stays, you should be able to keep it so as you tension the stays in the order Joel specified. Keep the triatic slack (by loosening the mizzen backs) until you are done with the main.
If it is still bent with all stays loose, perhaps it was bent by a yard at some point when it was off the boat (just guessing) - take it down and bend it back so it is straight. 
Let us know how you make out.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Florida
---In amelyachtowners@..., <rossienio@...> wrote :
Yes, and 'wath i'm doing, but becomes to loose the triatic, which has a fixed lenght, and the main mast seems to bend at the lower spreads. This also tightening the lower shrouds aft..........Thanks. Enio 


Re: Plastic cover boom gearbox engine

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Antonio,
Yes, the covers on the furling motors do become rigid after many years and very difficult to remove or replace. I cracked one a few years back and Amel was able to replace at a surprisingly reasonable cost.  I did not try to find them elsewhere. You didn't say where you are, but if you are in Europe it should be easy to work with Amel.
I do not know the motor manufacturer but it is not Bonfiglioli. As to the brushes, I would suggest you wait until you get the cover off and inspect them. With the very short and intermittent time that the motors are actually run there is very little wear on the brushes even over many years and you will probably find they are hardly worn at all.  You can simply clean up the commutator, reassemble and you'll be good for many more years. 
As to removing the covers, I found just gently prying around the edges with a smooth edged tool, squirting some lubricant into the gap and pulling and wiggling forcefully eventually worked. Be patient. New ones, of course, are supple and easy to work with.
By the way, although you didn't mention it as a problem, the Bonfiglioli "reductores" are readily available at about $300. If you haven't done so, do add Zerk fittings to yours so you can grease them for longer life. (See several discussions in this forum.)
Good luck with it.
Craig Briggs, SN68 Sangaris, Florida


---In amelyachtowners@..., <stilemare@...> wrote :

Hi guys,
first year working on my Santorin, some questions: I want change the brush in the electric engine mounted on the boom and mast.
Impossible remove the white cover without breaking, my gearbox is bonfiglioli. Do you know if the engine is bonfiglioli too and where I can order spare parts including the covers ?
Antonio
S/Y VAGABUNDO
Santorin n*108

Inviato da iPhone


Plastic cover boom gearbox engine

antonio scipioni
 

Hi guys,
first year working on my Santorin, some questions: I want change the brush in the electric engine mounted on the boom and mast.
Impossible remove the white cover without breaking, my gearbox is bonfiglioli. Do you know if the engine is bonfiglioli too and where I can order spare parts including the covers ?
Antonio
S/Y VAGABUNDO
Santorin n*108

Inviato da iPhone


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

enio rossi
 

Yes, and 'wath i'm doing, but becomes to loose the triatic, which has a fixed lenght, and the main mast seems to bend at the lower spreads. This also tightening the lower shrouds aft..........Thanks. Enio 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Equivalent Perkins engine to Volvo TDM 22

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

I have an extra 80T. Would you list your boat, number and most importantly location. I may  be able to help

Ric

Bali Hai SN24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 3:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Equivalent Perkins engine to Volvo TDM 22

 

 

Hello Pierre.  Per your request the serial no of my  Perkins  M8OT is BB30145U550630.  I need to replace the turbo charger.  Do you know of a source?


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator 50L/hr not pumping

francesringley@...
 

Thanks Veit. We are back home now. I am going to connect with Mark so we can address when we are next aboard.

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions.



Ian


Re: Equivalent Perkins engine to Volvo TDM 22

jsrogers@...
 

Hello Pierre.  Per your request the serial no of my  Perkins  M8OT is BB30145U550630.  I need to replace the turbo charger.  Do you know of a source?


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

amelforme
 

Have you tried loosening the head stay?

Joel F. Potter
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
954-812-2485

On Mar 3, 2016, at 12:05 PM, rossienio@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I read it with great interest, thanks. But I still have this problem : the upper part of my main mast is curved towards the bow (reverse bend). And I can not  fix it by tighening the backstay. Could someone tell me what I to do? Good winds. enio


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

Patrick McAneny
 

Joel, Thanks for your reply and confirming what I believed, but did not know , the proper backstay tension.
Pat
SM Shenanigans
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Mar 3, 2016 9:29 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

 
Hey Pat. There is also a very good rig tune instructional that I believe was placed in the Yahoo group from Olivier.
 
Good question on the mizzen backstays. When you tune the rig, tune the main and mizzen INDEPENDANTLY from each other. Straight up and down vertically. Use the headstay and main backstay, NOT the triatic, to get the rig in column and the headstay tight,  do NOT use the triatic. Adjust the triatic last. It should be just tight enough to remove all sloppiness but not pull any part of the rig anywhere. Jacques Carteau told me it is not really needed structurally and is mainly an antennae. He said that the insulators used to make it an antennae were chosen by their fairly weak  design strength which would theoretically allow them to fail in case of over tension before the main or mizzen masts could initiate a rigging failure of eithers rigging.
 
The mizzen should be tuned only with the upper and lower shrouds. Again, tight and straight up and down. Tension the split backstays to have an ‘easy  inch or two’ of slack . These are ‘limiters’ that should arrest excessive mizzen mast movement but they should not pull any part of the rig anywhere. If they are too tight the first thing you will notice is stress cracks where the mizzen backstays attach at the transom… these cracks can also come from having the headstay/backstay tension relationship on the main mast too loose allowing it to “pump” in certain wind/sea conditions which subjects the entire rig to dangerous inertial loading. Eventually, just about every one of the hundreds of Super Maramu’s I have sold and resold  manifest some slight cracking at the transom due to the fact that the transom is an “insert” laminated into the boat after it comes out of the mold instead of being part of the structural monocoque that the entire rest of the hull and deck assembly represent. This is also the reason one needs to reinforce the transom with fore though and professional assistance if it is used to support davits or an arch as it was not designed to ever do so.
 
Just as marine tech’s unfamiliar with the Amel DC electrical system ( which is, essentially, exactly the same as what is found on most aluminum boats where ANY electrolytic action can be quickly terminal ) say it is overly complex and then proceed to corrupt it with disastrous results, most riggers say that the rig should not be as tight as we espouse here. Usually I can discuss the big picture with them and the light might go on in their heads, but not always. In the three day school I offer my clients after the purchase of their “new to them” Amel, I spend a great deal of time explaining the Amel characteristics that are not mainstream so that when they need repairs in the future, the Amel owner is well equipped to discern if the tech they are hopefully “interviewing” is capable of making a correct repair and not instigating a potential catastrophe.
 
Certainly, I don’t know it all. None of us do. But I am fortunate that Amel insisted that I know their boats technically as well as from a features/how to sell standpoint. I am happy to help with anything I am able to if I am asked.
 
Have fun with your Amel.
 
All The Best, Joel
Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
954 462 5869 office
954 812 2485 cell
 
 
 
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

enio rossi
 

I read it with great interest, thanks. But I still have this problem : the upper part of my main mast is curved towards the bow (reverse bend). And I can not  fix it by tighening the backstay. Could someone tell me what I to do? Good winds. enio


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rig Tuning

karkauai
 

Thank you again and again, Joel, for sharing your expertise here.  That's the first time I've heard this about the mizzen back stays.    My masts are straight and my mizzen back stays are about what you describe, but I assure you that it's more luck than a thorough understanding of how it should be done.

All the best,
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Mar 3, 2016, at 9:29 AM, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hey Pat. There is also a very good rig tune instructional that I believe was placed in the Yahoo group from Olivier.

 

Good question on the mizzen backstays. When you tune the rig, tune the main and mizzen INDEPENDANTLY from each other. Straight up and down vertically. Use the headstay and main backstay, NOT the triatic, to get the rig in column and the headstay tight,  do NOT use the triatic. Adjust the triatic last. It should be just tight enough to remove all sloppiness but not pull any part of the rig anywhere. Jacques Carteau told me it is not really needed structurally and is mainly an antennae. He said that the insulators used to make it an antennae were chosen by their fairly weak  design strength which would theoretically allow them to fail in case of over tension before the main or mizzen masts could initiate a rigging failure of eithers rigging.

 

The mizzen should be tuned only with the upper and lower shrouds. Again, tight and straight up and down. Tension the split backstays to have an ‘easy  inch or two’ of slack . These are ‘limiters’ that should arrest excessive mizzen mast movement but they should not pull any part of the rig anywhere. If they are too tight the first thing you will notice is stress cracks where the mizzen backstays attach at the transom… these cracks can also come from having the headstay/backstay tension relationship on the main mast too loose allowing it to “pump” in certain wind/sea conditions which subjects the entire rig to dangerous inertial loading. Eventually, just about every one of the hundreds of Super Maramu’s I have sold and resold  manifest some slight cracking at the transom due to the fact that the transom is an “insert” laminated into the boat after it comes out of the mold instead of being part of the structural monocoque that the entire rest of the hull and deck assembly represent. This is also the reason one needs to reinforce the transom with fore though and professional assistance if it is used to support davits or an arch as it was not designed to ever do so.

 

Just as marine tech’s unfamiliar with the Amel DC electrical system ( which is, essentially, exactly the same as what is found on most aluminum boats where ANY electrolytic action can be quickly terminal ) say it is overly complex and then proceed to corrupt it with disastrous results, most riggers say that the rig should not be as tight as we espouse here. Usually I can discuss the big picture with them and the light might go on in their heads, but not always. In the three day school I offer my clients after the purchase of their “new to them” Amel, I spend a great deal of time explaining the Amel characteristics that are not mainstream so that when they need repairs in the future, the Amel owner is well equipped to discern if the tech they are hopefully “interviewing” is capable of making a correct repair and not instigating a potential catastrophe.

 

Certainly, I don’t know it all. None of us do. But I am fortunate that Amel insisted that I know their boats technically as well as from a features/how to sell standpoint. I am happy to help with anything I am able to if I am asked.

 

Have fun with your Amel.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell