Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Bill,

You are not correct. Read my emails again. If it happened on my boat it can happen on the other boats. I am standing behind my warning and I am not going discuss it any further with you.

Vladimir
SM 345 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Mar 8, 2016 4:43 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well, Vladamir, you posted a warning that others should NOT buy this cast stainless steel elbow, when, in fact, it did not fit your Yanmar because the length of the threaded studs have been compromised. 

When I tightened the nuts on BeBe I had 8mm of stud which went all the way through the nut. I think all of us owners. me included, need to be careful in making recommendations to other owners based on assumptions that our boat is exactly as it was delivered from Amel. I have seen this happen many times and I cringe when others are given bad information. Again, I say that I am not without fault, but I try vigorously to make accurate postings because others may make decisions on what I say.

The bottom line is that the cast stainless steel mixing elbow did not fit your Yanmar because the studs are now shorter than they were originally. 

You never answered my very direct questions as to which model Yanmar and serial number. But, in a genuine effort to help you, I am betting that you have a Yanmar. And regardless of the horsepower, that "stud" you speak of is threaded on both ends and screws into the engine block. It is Yanmar Part Number 128170-13600 and is item number 31 on the exploded view of the parts catalog...additionally, item numbers 17 & 18, parts numbers 22137-080000 and 26703-080002, washer and nut respectively. You will need 3 of each.

My Recommendation:
Replace the studs, the washers, and the nuts and your stainless steel casted elbow will fit perfectly...or grind down the elbow flange, and I am very sure that it will fail. The choice is yours and any blame has nothing to do with Yanmar, the eBay seller of the mixing elbow, or the Amel owner who recommended this elbow to you.

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina





On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I should of say threaded pins or threaded studs. I have the same arranment as you have. But with 12 mm flange it was only 1 full thread left for a nut to engage. The threads at the end of the threaded pins were compromised by corrosion.

On Mar 8, 2016 2:44 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladamir,

I am going to look into my crystal ball for your engine type...but, in the mean time, I am guessing that you have a Yanmar based on your hull number and assuming it is the original engine. So you either have the 75hp or 70-"something" hp or the 100hp. 

There are no "pins" on the 100hp Yanmar, originally installed by Amel on BeBe #387; and the flange on the casted stainless elbow that I bought from the eBay seller and I installed is 12mm. It installs by installing the metal gasket, then installing the elbow over threaded studs that have nuts to tighten the elbow in place.

So, since you mention "pins" and since you say the "pins" are not long enough, I must assume that either someone has modified your 100hp Yanmar, changed the original engine, OR, maybe you have the 70-"something" hp Yanmar...OR, possibly when you refer to "pins" you are referring to the threaded metal studs. If this is the case, probably someone changed those studs and did not buy the correct length.

Can you please tell me which of the above it is? And, tell me what model Yanmar and serial number you have. I suspect an engine modification or engine change is the source of your problem.

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
I bought the same mixing elbow as all of you. But it has thick mounting flange 12 mm and mounting pins on my engine were not long sufficiently to accommodate thick flange. Fabricated elbow has 6 mm flange. 

On Mar 8, 2016 12:43 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladimir,

I did not see what engine you have, BUT, the one I bought from an eBay supplier was a simple installation and perfect fit on my 100hp Yanmar 4JH3-HTE, and several other Yanmar models owned by non-Amel friends who have the 56hp, 75hp, and 110hp Yanmar.

Bill
BeBe

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

You are correct. That is also a solution. I will try to do that on Monday.

I wrote my original email as a warning to those who has this cast elbow. It is not just simple replacement.

Did anybody use liquid gasket in addition to a metal one for installation of new mixing elbow?

Vladimir
SM 345 "Life is Good"

On Mar 5, 2016 8:33 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Why don’t you take the elbow to a machine ship and have them mill off 6 mm of the flange?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

 

 

This is additional information on the thread related to cast stainless steel mixing elbow.

Cast stainless mixing elbow is much better part at very good price. I was very happy when I bought one. But today I tried to install it and I couldn't. Cast part has much  thicker mounting flange. YANMAR mixing elbow has 6 mm thick flange. Cast elbow flange is 12 mm thick. In some cases effective pin length is too short to accomodate thick flange. Pin replacement is risky because corroded pin can easily break.

On my engine the elbow was leaking and one pin corroded so bad that the threads which  protruded from the nut are no longer usful.  I can install fabricated flange without a  problem, but I can't  use cast elbow with thick flange.  I am in Guadeloupe now and I have to fix my engine ASAP.  I have to evaluate my option now. I can grind off part of the flange to 6 mm thick. Or I can buy fabricated elbow that has 6 mm thick flange.  Pin replacement is not an option for me now. Most likely pin beaks if I try to remove it.

I have a question. Should I use liquid gasket in addition to the steel gasket that is normally used for this application? I believe that liquid high temperature gasket should improve sealing.





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good to know Bill,

I very much like my Yamaha Enduro 15 HP 2 stroke and would buy same/similar if had to, but good to know about the Honda that can be stored on starboard side, too bad it will easily fit…

sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3/8/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2016, 3:46 PM


 









Alex,
That may be true, but the Honda has
small blocks on the starboard side of the engine that are to
be used when storing horizontally. I was told it could be
stored either way, but to be sure if storing it on its side,
to use the starboard side.
I was not positive that this
information (above) is correct, but I just checked the
owner's manual and it states the same
thing.
BillBeBe
387
On Tue,
Mar 8, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 









Hello Bill,



I was also told that 4 stroke should be store vertically…
unlike the 2 stroke which can be store horizontally.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Private slip in Marina Puerto Bahia, Samana, Dominican
Republic



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3/8/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently
Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections

To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com"
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2016, 2:11 PM





 





















We

replaced the dinghy and dinghy motor last moth. We

originally had an AB 3.2 Aluminum and a 15hp Mercury

2-stroke.

We bought a

upcoming brand of dinghy: 3D and a Honda 10hp 4-stroke,

which weighs more than the aluminum-bottom 3D 3.1m

dinghy.

Our problem

started to manifest themselves as soon as we tried to
lift

the Honda engine onto the aft outside engine mount on
BeBe.

The "universal" lifting harness would not

fit. After many hours and lots of modifications and

additions of webbing, it works...sort-of. Then I tried
to

put the Honda 10hp in the aft Lazarette...it will not

fit. The biggest issue in not fitting is that the

control arm on the Mercury rotated 180 degrees from the

"in-use" position to the "store it in

the Lazarette" position. The Honda rotates only 90

degrees and WILL NOT FIT.

The other issue is with the 3D 3.1m

dinghy. It has all sorts of stuff that gets in the way
when

lifting it vertically with the tops of the pontoons
against

the life rail. Paddles mounted on top of the pontoon!
Why

would the French do this...this is where you sit! I
removed

the paddles from their oarlocks and then the oarlocks are
a

problem. I removed all of the oarlock that I could
remove

without "loosing air," and it is still a
problem,

but works. 3D has an alternate place to mount the paddles
on

the inside of the pontoon, but, with the really nice
storage

box option offered by 3D, the paddles are too long to
mount

there...I shortened the paddles so that they now mount
on

the inside of the pontoon.

My next issue this week was

connecting NMEA to the Raymarine autopilot. There are
two

places that you can do this. NMEA IN on the course
computer

and NMEA IN on the 7001+ control head. The issue is that
if

you connect multiple talkers through a multiplexer,

Raymarine will on listen to 1 of the talkers. Also, NMEA
IN

on the course computer will not deliver Depth to one of
the

7001+ display pages. For the 7001+ to display Depth, it
must

receive that NMEA INput directly, not through the course

computer. The troubleshooting on this is lengthy and

frustrating. Rather than 1 NMEA wire from a multiplexer
with

inputs from B&G and GPS, I think I will have to run
2

NMEA wires. B&G to the 7001+...then GPS to the
course

computer.

Other than

those issues, things are great...we hosted 3 other Amel

couples on BeBe while in Le Marin, Martinique. It was
great

meeting each of them.

BillBeBe

387Rodney Bay Marina for a week























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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

That may be true, but the Honda has small blocks on the starboard side of the engine that are to be used when storing horizontally. I was told it could be stored either way, but to be sure if storing it on its side, to use the starboard side.

I was not positive that this information (above) is correct, but I just checked the owner's manual and it states the same thing.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Bill,

I was also told that 4 stroke should be store vertically… unlike the 2 stroke which can be store horizontally.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Private slip in Marina Puerto Bahia, Samana, Dominican Republic

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/8/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2016, 2:11 PM




 










We
replaced the dinghy and dinghy motor last moth. We
originally had an AB 3.2 Aluminum and a 15hp Mercury
2-stroke.
We bought a
upcoming brand of dinghy: 3D and a Honda 10hp 4-stroke,
which weighs more than the aluminum-bottom 3D 3.1m
dinghy.
Our problem
started to manifest themselves as soon as we tried to lift
the Honda engine onto the aft outside engine mount on BeBe.
The "universal" lifting harness would not
fit. After many hours and lots of modifications and
additions of webbing, it works...sort-of. Then I tried to
put the Honda 10hp in the aft Lazarette...it will not
fit. The biggest issue in not fitting is that the
control arm on the Mercury rotated 180 degrees from the
"in-use" position to the "store it in
the Lazarette" position. The Honda rotates only 90
degrees and WILL NOT FIT.
The other issue is with the 3D 3.1m
dinghy. It has all sorts of stuff that gets in the way when
lifting it vertically with the tops of the pontoons against
the life rail. Paddles mounted on top of the pontoon! Why
would the French do this...this is where you sit! I removed
the paddles from their oarlocks and then the oarlocks are a
problem. I removed all of the oarlock that I could remove
without "loosing air," and it is still a problem,
but works. 3D has an alternate place to mount the paddles on
the inside of the pontoon, but, with the really nice storage
box option offered by 3D, the paddles are too long to mount
there...I shortened the paddles so that they now mount on
the inside of the pontoon.
My next issue this week was
connecting NMEA to the Raymarine autopilot. There are two
places that you can do this. NMEA IN on the course computer
and NMEA IN on the 7001+ control head. The issue is that if
you connect multiple talkers through a multiplexer,
Raymarine will on listen to 1 of the talkers. Also, NMEA IN
on the course computer will not deliver Depth to one of the
7001+ display pages. For the 7001+ to display Depth, it must
receive that NMEA INput directly, not through the course
computer. The troubleshooting on this is lengthy and
frustrating. Rather than 1 NMEA wire from a multiplexer with
inputs from B&G and GPS, I think I will have to run 2
NMEA wires. B&G to the 7001+...then GPS to the course
computer.
Other than
those issues, things are great...we hosted 3 other Amel
couples on BeBe while in Le Marin, Martinique. It was great
meeting each of them.
BillBeBe
387Rodney Bay Marina for a week











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Well, Vladamir, you posted a warning that others should NOT buy this cast stainless steel elbow, when, in fact, it did not fit your Yanmar because the length of the threaded studs have been compromised. 

When I tightened the nuts on BeBe I had 8mm of stud which went all the way through the nut. I think all of us owners. me included, need to be careful in making recommendations to other owners based on assumptions that our boat is exactly as it was delivered from Amel. I have seen this happen many times and I cringe when others are given bad information. Again, I say that I am not without fault, but I try vigorously to make accurate postings because others may make decisions on what I say.

The bottom line is that the cast stainless steel mixing elbow did not fit your Yanmar because the studs are now shorter than they were originally. 

You never answered my very direct questions as to which model Yanmar and serial number. But, in a genuine effort to help you, I am betting that you have a Yanmar. And regardless of the horsepower, that "stud" you speak of is threaded on both ends and screws into the engine block. It is Yanmar Part Number 128170-13600 and is item number 31 on the exploded view of the parts catalog...additionally, item numbers 17 & 18, parts numbers 22137-080000 and 26703-080002, washer and nut respectively. You will need 3 of each.

My Recommendation:
Replace the studs, the washers, and the nuts and your stainless steel casted elbow will fit perfectly...or grind down the elbow flange, and I am very sure that it will fail. The choice is yours and any blame has nothing to do with Yanmar, the eBay seller of the mixing elbow, or the Amel owner who recommended this elbow to you.

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina





On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I should of say threaded pins or threaded studs. I have the same arranment as you have. But with 12 mm flange it was only 1 full thread left for a nut to engage. The threads at the end of the threaded pins were compromised by corrosion.

On Mar 8, 2016 2:44 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladamir,

I am going to look into my crystal ball for your engine type...but, in the mean time, I am guessing that you have a Yanmar based on your hull number and assuming it is the original engine. So you either have the 75hp or 70-"something" hp or the 100hp. 

There are no "pins" on the 100hp Yanmar, originally installed by Amel on BeBe #387; and the flange on the casted stainless elbow that I bought from the eBay seller and I installed is 12mm. It installs by installing the metal gasket, then installing the elbow over threaded studs that have nuts to tighten the elbow in place.

So, since you mention "pins" and since you say the "pins" are not long enough, I must assume that either someone has modified your 100hp Yanmar, changed the original engine, OR, maybe you have the 70-"something" hp Yanmar...OR, possibly when you refer to "pins" you are referring to the threaded metal studs. If this is the case, probably someone changed those studs and did not buy the correct length.

Can you please tell me which of the above it is? And, tell me what model Yanmar and serial number you have. I suspect an engine modification or engine change is the source of your problem.

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
I bought the same mixing elbow as all of you. But it has thick mounting flange 12 mm and mounting pins on my engine were not long sufficiently to accommodate thick flange. Fabricated elbow has 6 mm flange. 

On Mar 8, 2016 12:43 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladimir,

I did not see what engine you have, BUT, the one I bought from an eBay supplier was a simple installation and perfect fit on my 100hp Yanmar 4JH3-HTE, and several other Yanmar models owned by non-Amel friends who have the 56hp, 75hp, and 110hp Yanmar.

Bill
BeBe

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

You are correct. That is also a solution. I will try to do that on Monday.

I wrote my original email as a warning to those who has this cast elbow. It is not just simple replacement.

Did anybody use liquid gasket in addition to a metal one for installation of new mixing elbow?

Vladimir
SM 345 "Life is Good"

On Mar 5, 2016 8:33 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Why don’t you take the elbow to a machine ship and have them mill off 6 mm of the flange?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

 

 

This is additional information on the thread related to cast stainless steel mixing elbow.

Cast stainless mixing elbow is much better part at very good price. I was very happy when I bought one. But today I tried to install it and I couldn't. Cast part has much  thicker mounting flange. YANMAR mixing elbow has 6 mm thick flange. Cast elbow flange is 12 mm thick. In some cases effective pin length is too short to accomodate thick flange. Pin replacement is risky because corroded pin can easily break.

On my engine the elbow was leaking and one pin corroded so bad that the threads which  protruded from the nut are no longer usful.  I can install fabricated flange without a  problem, but I can't  use cast elbow with thick flange.  I am in Guadeloupe now and I have to fix my engine ASAP.  I have to evaluate my option now. I can grind off part of the flange to 6 mm thick. Or I can buy fabricated elbow that has 6 mm thick flange.  Pin replacement is not an option for me now. Most likely pin beaks if I try to remove it.

I have a question. Should I use liquid gasket in addition to the steel gasket that is normally used for this application? I believe that liquid high temperature gasket should improve sealing.





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Bill,

I was also told that 4 stroke should be store vertically… unlike the 2 stroke which can be store horizontally.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Private slip in Marina Puerto Bahia, Samana, Dominican Republic



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3/8/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2016, 2:11 PM


 










We
replaced the dinghy and dinghy motor last moth. We
originally had an AB 3.2 Aluminum and a 15hp Mercury
2-stroke.
We bought a
upcoming brand of dinghy: 3D and a Honda 10hp 4-stroke,
which weighs more than the aluminum-bottom 3D 3.1m
dinghy.
Our problem
started to manifest themselves as soon as we tried to lift
the Honda engine onto the aft outside engine mount on BeBe.
The "universal" lifting harness would not
fit. After many hours and lots of modifications and
additions of webbing, it works...sort-of. Then I tried to
put the Honda 10hp in the aft Lazarette...it will not
fit. The biggest issue in not fitting is that the
control arm on the Mercury rotated 180 degrees from the
"in-use" position to the "store it in
the Lazarette" position. The Honda rotates only 90
degrees and WILL NOT FIT.
The other issue is with the 3D 3.1m
dinghy. It has all sorts of stuff that gets in the way when
lifting it vertically with the tops of the pontoons against
the life rail. Paddles mounted on top of the pontoon! Why
would the French do this...this is where you sit! I removed
the paddles from their oarlocks and then the oarlocks are a
problem. I removed all of the oarlock that I could remove
without "loosing air," and it is still a problem,
but works. 3D has an alternate place to mount the paddles on
the inside of the pontoon, but, with the really nice storage
box option offered by 3D, the paddles are too long to mount
there...I shortened the paddles so that they now mount on
the inside of the pontoon.
My next issue this week was
connecting NMEA to the Raymarine autopilot. There are two
places that you can do this. NMEA IN on the course computer
and NMEA IN on the 7001+ control head. The issue is that if
you connect multiple talkers through a multiplexer,
Raymarine will on listen to 1 of the talkers. Also, NMEA IN
on the course computer will not deliver Depth to one of the
7001+ display pages. For the 7001+ to display Depth, it must
receive that NMEA INput directly, not through the course
computer. The troubleshooting on this is lengthy and
frustrating. Rather than 1 NMEA wire from a multiplexer with
inputs from B&G and GPS, I think I will have to run 2
NMEA wires. B&G to the 7001+...then GPS to the course
computer.
Other than
those issues, things are great...we hosted 3 other Amel
couples on BeBe while in Le Marin, Martinique. It was great
meeting each of them.
BillBeBe
387Rodney Bay Marina for a week











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

I should of say threaded pins or threaded studs. I have the same arranment as you have. But with 12 mm flange it was only 1 full thread left for a nut to engage. The threads at the end of the threaded pins were compromised by corrosion.

On Mar 8, 2016 2:44 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladamir,

I am going to look into my crystal ball for your engine type...but, in the mean time, I am guessing that you have a Yanmar based on your hull number and assuming it is the original engine. So you either have the 75hp or 70-"something" hp or the 100hp. 

There are no "pins" on the 100hp Yanmar, originally installed by Amel on BeBe #387; and the flange on the casted stainless elbow that I bought from the eBay seller and I installed is 12mm. It installs by installing the metal gasket, then installing the elbow over threaded studs that have nuts to tighten the elbow in place.

So, since you mention "pins" and since you say the "pins" are not long enough, I must assume that either someone has modified your 100hp Yanmar, changed the original engine, OR, maybe you have the 70-"something" hp Yanmar...OR, possibly when you refer to "pins" you are referring to the threaded metal studs. If this is the case, probably someone changed those studs and did not buy the correct length.

Can you please tell me which of the above it is? And, tell me what model Yanmar and serial number you have. I suspect an engine modification or engine change is the source of your problem.

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
I bought the same mixing elbow as all of you. But it has thick mounting flange 12 mm and mounting pins on my engine were not long sufficiently to accommodate thick flange. Fabricated elbow has 6 mm flange. 

On Mar 8, 2016 12:43 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladimir,

I did not see what engine you have, BUT, the one I bought from an eBay supplier was a simple installation and perfect fit on my 100hp Yanmar 4JH3-HTE, and several other Yanmar models owned by non-Amel friends who have the 56hp, 75hp, and 110hp Yanmar.

Bill
BeBe

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

You are correct. That is also a solution. I will try to do that on Monday.

I wrote my original email as a warning to those who has this cast elbow. It is not just simple replacement.

Did anybody use liquid gasket in addition to a metal one for installation of new mixing elbow?

Vladimir
SM 345 "Life is Good"

On Mar 5, 2016 8:33 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Why don’t you take the elbow to a machine ship and have them mill off 6 mm of the flange?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

 

 

This is additional information on the thread related to cast stainless steel mixing elbow.

Cast stainless mixing elbow is much better part at very good price. I was very happy when I bought one. But today I tried to install it and I couldn't. Cast part has much  thicker mounting flange. YANMAR mixing elbow has 6 mm thick flange. Cast elbow flange is 12 mm thick. In some cases effective pin length is too short to accomodate thick flange. Pin replacement is risky because corroded pin can easily break.

On my engine the elbow was leaking and one pin corroded so bad that the threads which  protruded from the nut are no longer usful.  I can install fabricated flange without a  problem, but I can't  use cast elbow with thick flange.  I am in Guadeloupe now and I have to fix my engine ASAP.  I have to evaluate my option now. I can grind off part of the flange to 6 mm thick. Or I can buy fabricated elbow that has 6 mm thick flange.  Pin replacement is not an option for me now. Most likely pin beaks if I try to remove it.

I have a question. Should I use liquid gasket in addition to the steel gasket that is normally used for this application? I believe that liquid high temperature gasket should improve sealing.




Things Recently Learned:Outboard engines, Dinghy, & NMEA connections

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 


We replaced the dinghy and dinghy motor last moth. We originally had an AB 3.2 Aluminum and a 15hp Mercury 2-stroke.

We bought a upcoming brand of dinghy: 3D and a Honda 10hp 4-stroke, which weighs more than the aluminum-bottom 3D 3.1m dinghy.

Our problem started to manifest themselves as soon as we tried to lift the Honda engine onto the aft outside engine mount on BeBe. The "universal" lifting harness would not fit. After many hours and lots of modifications and additions of webbing, it works...sort-of. Then I tried to put the Honda 10hp in the aft Lazarette...it will not fit. The biggest issue in not fitting is that the control arm on the Mercury rotated 180 degrees from the "in-use" position to the "store it in the Lazarette" position. The Honda rotates only 90 degrees and WILL NOT FIT.

The other issue is with the 3D 3.1m dinghy. It has all sorts of stuff that gets in the way when lifting it vertically with the tops of the pontoons against the life rail. Paddles mounted on top of the pontoon! Why would the French do this...this is where you sit! I removed the paddles from their oarlocks and then the oarlocks are a problem. I removed all of the oarlock that I could remove without "loosing air," and it is still a problem, but works. 3D has an alternate place to mount the paddles on the inside of the pontoon, but, with the really nice storage box option offered by 3D, the paddles are too long to mount there...I shortened the paddles so that they now mount on the inside of the pontoon.

My next issue this week was connecting NMEA to the Raymarine autopilot. There are two places that you can do this. NMEA IN on the course computer and NMEA IN on the 7001+ control head. The issue is that if you connect multiple talkers through a multiplexer, Raymarine will on listen to 1 of the talkers. Also, NMEA IN on the course computer will not deliver Depth to one of the 7001+ display pages. For the 7001+ to display Depth, it must receive that NMEA INput directly, not through the course computer. The troubleshooting on this is lengthy and frustrating. Rather than 1 NMEA wire from a multiplexer with inputs from B&G and GPS, I think I will have to run 2 NMEA wires. B&G to the 7001+...then GPS to the course computer.

Other than those issues, things are great...we hosted 3 other Amel couples on BeBe while in Le Marin, Martinique. It was great meeting each of them.

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina for a week


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Vladamir,

I am going to look into my crystal ball for your engine type...but, in the mean time, I am guessing that you have a Yanmar based on your hull number and assuming it is the original engine. So you either have the 75hp or 70-"something" hp or the 100hp. 

There are no "pins" on the 100hp Yanmar, originally installed by Amel on BeBe #387; and the flange on the casted stainless elbow that I bought from the eBay seller and I installed is 12mm. It installs by installing the metal gasket, then installing the elbow over threaded studs that have nuts to tighten the elbow in place.

So, since you mention "pins" and since you say the "pins" are not long enough, I must assume that either someone has modified your 100hp Yanmar, changed the original engine, OR, maybe you have the 70-"something" hp Yanmar...OR, possibly when you refer to "pins" you are referring to the threaded metal studs. If this is the case, probably someone changed those studs and did not buy the correct length.

Can you please tell me which of the above it is? And, tell me what model Yanmar and serial number you have. I suspect an engine modification or engine change is the source of your problem.

Bill
BeBe 387
Rodney Bay Marina

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
I bought the same mixing elbow as all of you. But it has thick mounting flange 12 mm and mounting pins on my engine were not long sufficiently to accommodate thick flange. Fabricated elbow has 6 mm flange. 

On Mar 8, 2016 12:43 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladimir,

I did not see what engine you have, BUT, the one I bought from an eBay supplier was a simple installation and perfect fit on my 100hp Yanmar 4JH3-HTE, and several other Yanmar models owned by non-Amel friends who have the 56hp, 75hp, and 110hp Yanmar.

Bill
BeBe

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

You are correct. That is also a solution. I will try to do that on Monday.

I wrote my original email as a warning to those who has this cast elbow. It is not just simple replacement.

Did anybody use liquid gasket in addition to a metal one for installation of new mixing elbow?

Vladimir
SM 345 "Life is Good"

On Mar 5, 2016 8:33 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Why don’t you take the elbow to a machine ship and have them mill off 6 mm of the flange?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

 

 

This is additional information on the thread related to cast stainless steel mixing elbow.

Cast stainless mixing elbow is much better part at very good price. I was very happy when I bought one. But today I tried to install it and I couldn't. Cast part has much  thicker mounting flange. YANMAR mixing elbow has 6 mm thick flange. Cast elbow flange is 12 mm thick. In some cases effective pin length is too short to accomodate thick flange. Pin replacement is risky because corroded pin can easily break.

On my engine the elbow was leaking and one pin corroded so bad that the threads which  protruded from the nut are no longer usful.  I can install fabricated flange without a  problem, but I can't  use cast elbow with thick flange.  I am in Guadeloupe now and I have to fix my engine ASAP.  I have to evaluate my option now. I can grind off part of the flange to 6 mm thick. Or I can buy fabricated elbow that has 6 mm thick flange.  Pin replacement is not an option for me now. Most likely pin beaks if I try to remove it.

I have a question. Should I use liquid gasket in addition to the steel gasket that is normally used for this application? I believe that liquid high temperature gasket should improve sealing.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: furlers gear box lubrication

eric freedman
 

Alan,

I grease my Leroy Somer gearboxes twice a year. You would be surprised how much water and dirty grease comes out. At the same time I lubricate the outhaul shaft with anti-seize grease.

My gearboxes are now almost 14 years old.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 2:28 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: furlers gear box lubrication

 

 

Perhaps the "never" was a bit rash ! but the original boxes lasted 12 years

My gearboxes a re Leroy Somers.

The boom gearbox failed as the oil had leaked out (before I owned the boat) and the gears just gave up.

The main gearbox was replaced as the housing was actually falling apart.

The gearboxes are not that diffcult to take off and take apart, unless it hasn't been done for a while.

I still don't see the point of squirting grease into them.

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: furlers gear box lubrication

Alan Leslie
 

Perhaps the "never" was a bit rash ! but the original boxes lasted 12 years
My gearboxes a re Leroy Somers.
The boom gearbox failed as the oil had leaked out (before I owned the boat) and the gears just gave up.
The main gearbox was replaced as the housing was actually falling apart.
The gearboxes are not that diffcult to take off and take apart, unless it hasn't been done for a while.
I still don't see the point of squirting grease into them.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Bill,
I bought the same mixing elbow as all of you. But it has thick mounting flange 12 mm and mounting pins on my engine were not long sufficiently to accommodate thick flange. Fabricated elbow has 6 mm flange. 

On Mar 8, 2016 12:43 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Vladimir,

I did not see what engine you have, BUT, the one I bought from an eBay supplier was a simple installation and perfect fit on my 100hp Yanmar 4JH3-HTE, and several other Yanmar models owned by non-Amel friends who have the 56hp, 75hp, and 110hp Yanmar.

Bill
BeBe

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

You are correct. That is also a solution. I will try to do that on Monday.

I wrote my original email as a warning to those who has this cast elbow. It is not just simple replacement.

Did anybody use liquid gasket in addition to a metal one for installation of new mixing elbow?

Vladimir
SM 345 "Life is Good"

On Mar 5, 2016 8:33 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Why don’t you take the elbow to a machine ship and have them mill off 6 mm of the flange?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

 

 

This is additional information on the thread related to cast stainless steel mixing elbow.

Cast stainless mixing elbow is much better part at very good price. I was very happy when I bought one. But today I tried to install it and I couldn't. Cast part has much  thicker mounting flange. YANMAR mixing elbow has 6 mm thick flange. Cast elbow flange is 12 mm thick. In some cases effective pin length is too short to accomodate thick flange. Pin replacement is risky because corroded pin can easily break.

On my engine the elbow was leaking and one pin corroded so bad that the threads which  protruded from the nut are no longer usful.  I can install fabricated flange without a  problem, but I can't  use cast elbow with thick flange.  I am in Guadeloupe now and I have to fix my engine ASAP.  I have to evaluate my option now. I can grind off part of the flange to 6 mm thick. Or I can buy fabricated elbow that has 6 mm thick flange.  Pin replacement is not an option for me now. Most likely pin beaks if I try to remove it.

I have a question. Should I use liquid gasket in addition to the steel gasket that is normally used for this application? I believe that liquid high temperature gasket should improve sealing.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Vladimir,

I did not see what engine you have, BUT, the one I bought from an eBay supplier was a simple installation and perfect fit on my 100hp Yanmar 4JH3-HTE, and several other Yanmar models owned by non-Amel friends who have the 56hp, 75hp, and 110hp Yanmar.

Bill
BeBe

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Eric,

You are correct. That is also a solution. I will try to do that on Monday.

I wrote my original email as a warning to those who has this cast elbow. It is not just simple replacement.

Did anybody use liquid gasket in addition to a metal one for installation of new mixing elbow?

Vladimir
SM 345 "Life is Good"

On Mar 5, 2016 8:33 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Why don’t you take the elbow to a machine ship and have them mill off 6 mm of the flange?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2016 8:01 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installation problem for stainless steel cast mixing elbow for YANMAR engine 4JH3

 

 

This is additional information on the thread related to cast stainless steel mixing elbow.

Cast stainless mixing elbow is much better part at very good price. I was very happy when I bought one. But today I tried to install it and I couldn't. Cast part has much  thicker mounting flange. YANMAR mixing elbow has 6 mm thick flange. Cast elbow flange is 12 mm thick. In some cases effective pin length is too short to accomodate thick flange. Pin replacement is risky because corroded pin can easily break.

On my engine the elbow was leaking and one pin corroded so bad that the threads which  protruded from the nut are no longer usful.  I can install fabricated flange without a  problem, but I can't  use cast elbow with thick flange.  I am in Guadeloupe now and I have to fix my engine ASAP.  I have to evaluate my option now. I can grind off part of the flange to 6 mm thick. Or I can buy fabricated elbow that has 6 mm thick flange.  Pin replacement is not an option for me now. Most likely pin beaks if I try to remove it.

I have a question. Should I use liquid gasket in addition to the steel gasket that is normally used for this application? I believe that liquid high temperature gasket should improve sealing.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: furlers gear box lubrication

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Alan,
Yes, you're right about oil, not grease, being used - as I noted, Bonfiglioli fills these at the factory with Shell Tivela S320 weight gear oil, not grease, and considers it permanent lubrication, expecting 25,000 hours of operation. Unfortunately, as many of us have experienced, with the heat of baking in the sun and the harsh environment on the boat it does drip out and water gets in.  
Just out of curiosity, so we can all learn, is that why you replaced both of your gearboxes? If so, why would you expect not to have any issues in the future, if you are replacing them with the same thing?
Whether you use gear oil or grease is probably less important than adding grease nipples or access plugs so you can periodically refresh the lubricant and displace any water.
Cheers,
Craig SN68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

These gearboxes are "lubricated for life" according to the label. I guess that means that when they run out of life they are no longer lubricated.
An old one that I took off was definitely filled with heavy weight oil not grease.
Oil seems the better bet to me...its a gearbox not a bearing.
Grease tends to get thrown off the gears and sticks to the case, oil on the other hand being less viscous is always in contact with the gear teeth surfaces.
Having recently replaced both outhaul and main furling gearboxes, I hope to never have any issues.
CHEERS
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Shower head and sink tap replacement.

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Greets Bob,

I just roamed Penguin Engineering in UK and they probably have what you need…

They have my shower heads and taps for the toilet sinks.

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera SM007


On 8 Mar 2016, at 05:25, rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Does anyone have a source for the control/mixer/thermostat? Price? Key parts? I keep wondering what to do if it fails.  Amel Owner top priorities--Toilets, Engine and Fresh Water!  In that order.

Bob SM 429 KAIMI


Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007
Porto Turistico Marina di Ragusa, Pontoon M15,
97100 Ragusa, Sicily, Italy
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: furlers gear box lubrication

Alan Leslie
 

These gearboxes are "lubricated for life" according to the label. I guess that means that when they run out of life they are no longer lubricated.
An old one that I took off was definitely filled with heavy weight oil not grease.
Oil seems the better bet to me...its a gearbox not a bearing.
Grease tends to get thrown off the gears and sticks to the case, oil on the other hand being less viscous is always in contact with the gear teeth surfaces.
Having recently replaced both outhaul and main furling gearboxes, I hope to never have any issues.
CHEERS
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Shower head and sink tap replacement.

Alan Leslie
 

The shower mixer is GROHE brand, this is well known in the bathroom fittings business. The sink mixer is a generic unit, I have one in my house, you can buy these complete units from a plumbing shop or Bunnings or Home Depot kind of shop, there is nothing special about these things.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shower head and sink tap replacement.

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Thank you for this information. Being in EU should be easy to deal with Penguin in the UK.

Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM007


On 8 Mar 2016, at 06:37, jjjk12s@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

You could try Penguin Engineering in Uk. They supply Barka Italian products. Not sure about the Super Maramu but the quality and appearance is a good replacement for older Amels. On their website click on products then taps and showers and there they are. Being European the threads compatability should be ok. I've had some for a few years and the chrome seems good quality to cope with the marine air.

 

John Maramu #91 Popeye


Re: Shower head and sink tap replacement.

jjjk12s@...
 

You could try Penguin Engineering in Uk. They supply Barka Italian products. Not sure about the Super Maramu but the quality and appearance is a good replacement for older Amels. On their website click on products then taps and showers and there they are. Being European the threads compatability should be ok. I've had some for a few years and the chrome seems good quality to cope with the marine air.

 

John Maramu #91 Popeye


Re: Shower head and sink tap replacement.

rossirossix4
 

Does anyone have a source for the control/mixer/thermostat? Price? Key parts? I keep wondering what to do if it fails.  Amel Owner top priorities--Toilets, Engine and Fresh Water!  In that order.
Bob SM 429 KAIMI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shower head and sink tap replacement.

eric freedman
 

I was working on the Seagull water filter and noticed that they are not NPT threads like normal pipe. I found out that they are compression fitting threads which are a finer thread than NPT. Possibly the shower head is a compression fitting thread.

I found an adapter at my local hardware store.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 7:57 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Shower head and sink tap replacement.

 

 

The showerheads are problematical. The fittings on the hoses don't fit ordinary sink type shower heads .  

Kent 

SM243

Kristy



On Mar 7, 2016, at 5:57 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

They are nothing special....

Equivalents are found in major plumbing shops...like Home Depot (US), Bunnings (AUS) ....just ordinary household stuff...I replaced the shower heads and tubings with domestic products from Bunnings  and I know that the units in the galley and the head sinks are just ordinary household units 'cos I had them in my house !! 

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437