Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Markings of rigging lengths

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Eric,

Each piece of ACMO rigging that I have seen on many different model Amels is engraved with ACMO's production date near the swage fitting.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On May 13, 2016 9:12 PM, "sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Aren’t the length of each piece of rigging engraved on the swage fitting?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

__


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

Graham Boyd
 

Thank you gentlemen....GELCOAT!! It's obvious now. Just so happens Sula is parked up on the hard at RHKYC with her bow more or less poking into the fibre glass work shop!

Graham
SM140 Sula
Hong Kong


Markings of rigging lengths

eric freedman
 

Aren’t the length of each piece of rigging engraved on the swage fitting?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

__


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Installation and Rigging Fore / Aft Tuning

Duane Siegfri
 

Gary,

Thanks in advance for the rig tuning pdf.  I'm looking forward to it!

Duane
Wanderer SM477


Re: toilet base forward head

Gary Wells
 

Just finished the same project on Adagio. Three out of four bolts snapped on FWD head and one out of four snapped on the AFT.
Had successful outcome drilling out 4 of them (gradually increasing bit size until the shred of old bolt came loose)./I chose not to try a bolt extractor because of how much force was used to snap the heads off).
On the last one I snapped the drill bit off inside the bolt. After that, I snapped a Dremel bit off trying to get the drill bit. out ...
It took patience, but I finally got all that stuff out (Dremel's rock if you are just patient ... and wear hearing protection) and chased the threads with the same sized tap.
I used copious amounts of Lanacote on the new bolts to help fend off the corrosion that was bound to occur in this location so I'm hoping that the next time I have to do this it'll be a little less of a project :)

Gary W.
Adagio, SM 209
Bermuda, ARC Europe.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

James Alton
 

Joel,
  I wanted to let you know that there is also a non air inhibited gel coat that cures hard and even shiny without any additives or PVA needed.  I have used it for boat repairs and also on sailplanes.  It isgreat for bilges and lockers etc. It can be tinted with regular polyester tints or the factory will mix even small quanities to a chip.  There is only one source that I know of, it is Simtec Coatings in Noroco Ca.  I can provide the contact information if anyone wants it. The product blends beautifully when feathered.  The UV resistance is less than moulded factory gel coat unfortunately.  Best. James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 05-13-2016 10:36 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement


 

Or use gel coat with surfactant wax already in, then you don’t need to cover the curing  gel coat with PVC spray. The guy at the gel coat store will know what you want if you just tell him you want wax in and not waxless. That’s how they taught me at Amel school!

 

Thanks for remembering, Craig. I forgot…

 

Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:52 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

 

 

Graham and all,

Joel gave me this secret a few years back - Amel used gelcoat - same color as dodger. Be sure to use additive so it cures in air. Works like a charm.

Cheers, Craig, SN#68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

Graham,

Good question. I do not know the answer because the Plexiglass supplier I used to cut the pieces chose the paint. He did an exact job predrilling all of the holes which matched up exactly.

I can see a few tiny places where he used too much sealant to secure the foam gasket for the port side opening windshield. Take care with the use of sealant on the gasket. Possibly if you can use your router to cut a slightly smaller slot for the gasket, you will not need to use sealant. My guess is this is how Amel did it. Try with some scraps of plexiglass before you decide.

I believe that the paint us an important part of making this look good. I used gray tinted plexiglass. Through the plexiglass the white paint he used looks gray. Probably should have used black paint, but white looks OK. 

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On May 12, 2016 9:38 AM, "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am replacing the perspex windows on my fixed wind screen. On removal of the old ones it was observed that the edges of the windows were painted to hide the sealant when in position. Can any one tell me what sort of paint was used for this job and how the perspex was treated prior to painting to allow maximum adhesion.

 

I believe there has been a thread on this subject before but for the life of me I cant find it, perhaps someone has the message number?

 

Graham Boyd

SM140 Sula

Hong Kong


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Installation and Rigging Fore / Aft Tuning

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Olivier:  

Many thanks for your excellent write-up.  It was perfect and exactly answered my questions.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and time to help us all in the Amel community. 

I have searched the forum from stem to stern and collected now 10 pages of standing rigging tuning information from you, Joel and others.  I plan on compiling it all with references and posting it here on the forum as a PDF file so that others can quickly and easily reference the material as it is so very valuable. 

Again, thanks for the clear, concise and timely response to my question.  I think I will add a laser level to my bag of tricks along with a 60 ft tape measure and large scale protractor. 

All the best to you and your family, 

Gary S. SIlver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM #335
Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

amelforme
 

Or use gel coat with surfactant wax already in, then you don’t need to cover the curing  gel coat with PVC spray. The guy at the gel coat store will know what you want if you just tell him you want wax in and not waxless. That’s how they taught me at Amel school!

 

Thanks for remembering, Craig. I forgot…

 

Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:52 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

 

 

Graham and all,

Joel gave me this secret a few years back - Amel used gelcoat - same color as dodger. Be sure to use additive so it cures in air. Works like a charm.

Cheers, Craig, SN#68 Sangaris



---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

Graham,

Good question. I do not know the answer because the Plexiglass supplier I used to cut the pieces chose the paint. He did an exact job predrilling all of the holes which matched up exactly.

I can see a few tiny places where he used too much sealant to secure the foam gasket for the port side opening windshield. Take care with the use of sealant on the gasket. Possibly if you can use your router to cut a slightly smaller slot for the gasket, you will not need to use sealant. My guess is this is how Amel did it. Try with some scraps of plexiglass before you decide.

I believe that the paint us an important part of making this look good. I used gray tinted plexiglass. Through the plexiglass the white paint he used looks gray. Probably should have used black paint, but white looks OK. 

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On May 12, 2016 9:38 AM, "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am replacing the perspex windows on my fixed wind screen. On removal of the old ones it was observed that the edges of the windows were painted to hide the sealant when in position. Can any one tell me what sort of paint was used for this job and how the perspex was treated prior to painting to allow maximum adhesion.

 

I believe there has been a thread on this subject before but for the life of me I cant find it, perhaps someone has the message number?

 

Graham Boyd

SM140 Sula

Hong Kong


Re: Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

Craig Briggs
 

Graham and all,
Joel gave me this secret a few years back - Amel used gelcoat - same color as dodger. Be sure to use additive so it cures in air. Works like a charm.
Cheers, Craig, SN#68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <yahoogroups@...> wrote :

Graham,

Good question. I do not know the answer because the Plexiglass supplier I used to cut the pieces chose the paint. He did an exact job predrilling all of the holes which matched up exactly.

I can see a few tiny places where he used too much sealant to secure the foam gasket for the port side opening windshield. Take care with the use of sealant on the gasket. Possibly if you can use your router to cut a slightly smaller slot for the gasket, you will not need to use sealant. My guess is this is how Amel did it. Try with some scraps of plexiglass before you decide.

I believe that the paint us an important part of making this look good. I used gray tinted plexiglass. Through the plexiglass the white paint he used looks gray. Probably should have used black paint, but white looks OK. 

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On May 12, 2016 9:38 AM, "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am replacing the perspex windows on my fixed wind screen. On removal of the old ones it was observed that the edges of the windows were painted to hide the sealant when in position. Can any one tell me what sort of paint was used for this job and how the perspex was treated prior to painting to allow maximum adhesion.


I believe there has been a thread on this subject before but for the life of me I cant find it, perhaps someone has the message number?


Graham Boyd

SM140 Sula

Hong Kong


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Installation and Rigging Fore / Aft Tuning

James Alton
 

Oliver,

   I appreciate the very clear instructions that you provided on how to set up the Amel spars and tune.  Replacement of the standing rigging will be high on the list of priorities for the 1987 Maramu that I am in the process of purchasing.  I would like to make a  comment followed by a few questions about setting up the Amel rigging:

1.  First,  I have never rigged and tuned  a  boat that could be set up as you described  due to the lack of symmetry in the chainplates, the position of the mast step etc.    For the set up you described to work, both the boat, the rig and the rigging itself would need to be very precise. Since this method obviously does work on the Amel the accuracy in the construction must be at a level that I have never seen before... I am in shock…and very happy to read about this!!

2.  In general do the longer shrouds require more tension than the shorter ones to allow for the additional stretch in the longer pc. of wire?  In other words, to keep the spar straight when loaded, would the caps be tighter in proper tune than the lowers?  

3.  Can you provide a rough measurement to describe the desired amount of fore/aft bend per your detailed instructions?   I am guessing that the internal furling systems bow aft some due to sail loads and if too much mast bend is induced that it could cause the system to rub on the inside of the spar at the mid point?   

Thanks,
James

On May 12, 2016, at 11:03 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Olivier, you are the best!  Thanks again and again for all your time and efforts on our behalf!
Kent
SM243
Kristy
En route to Bonaire and points West.


On May 12, 2016, at 8:54 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Gary,

this topic is probably going to raise a lot of questions, but I like the challenge...

I will start with "How did AMEL install the masts and tune the rigging on Santorins, SMs and 54s?" It has now changed as the masts of the 64 and 55 are rigged with discontinuous side shrouds, and the tension is finally set thanks to an hydraulic mast jack tool system and wedges.

The mast steps are bolted through the deck in metal inserts glassed in. 
They are installed horizontally, this means parallel to the saloon floor, or perpendicular to the main bulkhead (underneath).
"How did AMEL install the masts?":
First of all, the spreaders are attached to the top shrouds as follows:
-bring the shroud along the mast and mark it (with a permanent marker) at the bottom side of the spreader's hex nut. Mark both shrouds the same way at both speaders. At spreader's end, put the eye bolt at the mark.
The intermediate shrouds will be secured at spreader's ends only once the rigging is tuned.

As the main mast is hanging from the top (thanks to a crane), it is set on the mast step, centered thanks to both "hubs". The first shrouds to be secured are the 4 lower shrouds, which is enough to hold the mast in place. The crane is going away.
Then the forestay with genoa furler is installed on its chain-plate, then both top shrouds, then the backstay.
Once the forestay, backstay and top shrouds' turnbuckles are gently tightened by hand, the lower shrouds should be eased a bit, in order not to interfere with the operation of "setting the mast foot flat on its mast step":
-Concerning the top shrouds, this is made by measuring the distance between the top of the lower swage, and the bottom of the clevis pin which secures the shroud into the chain-plate. This distance must be the same on both sides.
-Concerning the forestay and backstay, they are adjusted (by hand) in order there is no gap between the rubber sole and the aluminum mast step (front and aft). If you see no gap from the beginning, and you want to check if it is close to a gap, ease the backstay (two turns) and tighten the forestay (two turns). If you start seeing a gap aft, then ease the forestay again (one turn) and tighten the backstay again (one turn). If there is no gap: GOOD, if there is still a gap aft, then come back to the original p osition (one turn less on the forestay, one more turn on the backstay).
Now, you can say the mast is "vertical" (in fact, the Santorins, SMs and 54s are never horizontal, back to front, but always with the bow up, which means the mast is leaning slightly aft).
It is vertical but it should also be straight as no strong tension has been put on the shrouds.

Once the mast is vertical, you will start tensioning the shrouds by pairs, checking that the mast is straight after each tensioning, lik e, for instance:
-two turns on front lower shrouds, two turns on aft lower shrouds, check
-two turns on top shrouds, check
-three turns on forestay, three turns on backstay, check

And so on until the shrouds feel very stiff. In the end, you will tension the front lower shrouds a bit more than the aft ones, in order to initiate a slight curve aft (the middle of the mast being in front of the foot and top) and then o nly the intermediate shrouds, not too tight.
To confirm the rigging is tight enough, go out sailing, close hauling with 18/20 knots. The mast should keep straight sideways, and not bend forward, the leeward shrouds should not be loose. If the mast bends forward, then tighten the backstay and the front lower shrouds.

If the mast is not "vertical" from the beginning, it will bend front if you  a gap at the front or aft if there is a gap at the aft.

Once the main mast and rigging are set, you can start with the mizzen mast:
-first line it up with the main mast, looking at both from the far aft of the vessel
-then tension the shrouds in order to make a slight curve aft

This is a first description. I probably forgot some details, so... feel free to ask.

Olivier







On Thurs day, May 12, 2016 8:58 AM, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:


 
This is mainly directed to Olivier Beaute as it relates to Amel's initial tuning of the masts angle to the boat in the fore/aft direction.   I am in the process of tweaking the tuning done to my standing rigging when I had professional riggers place the new ACMO rigging about 18 months ago now.  My main mast isn't quite straight fore and aft and in fact has a bit of an "S" curve in it.  I plan on adjusting this.  I can measure the side to side straightness by assuring that the mast-top to toenail distance is the same on each side, However, Olivier, how did Amel know when the mast was vertical relative to the step of the mast on the deck when they originally rigged the boat.  Since the deck fore and aft isn't symmetrical I can't quite conjure up a method for assuring that the masts are vertical to their step plate since it is such a small surface area.  The only thing I can think of is to place a straight edge fore and aft across the step plate molded into the fiberglass then actually measuring the angle to assure it is 90 degrees.  Did Amel have a better way, perhaps a measurement from some point on the bow to the mast-top for the main and something similar for the mizzen?  

Thanks for any input you might have.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver  (original owner and the guy you patiently tutored both myself and my family when we took ownership in 2001)
s/v Liahona  Amel SM #335
Puerto Del Rey,  Puerto Rico 






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Installation and Rigging Fore / Aft Tuning

karkauai
 

Olivier, you are the best!  Thanks again and again for all your time and efforts on our behalf!
Kent
SM243
Kristy
En route to Bonaire and points West.


On May 12, 2016, at 8:54 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Gary,

this topic is probably going to raise a lot of questions, but I like the challenge...

I will start with "How did AMEL install the masts and tune the rigging on Santorins, SMs and 54s?" It has now changed as the masts of the 64 and 55 are rigged with discontinuous side shrouds, and the tension is finally set thanks to an hydraulic mast jack tool system and wedges.

The mast steps are bolted through the deck in metal inserts glassed in. 
They are installed horizontally, this means parallel to the saloon floor, or perpendicular to the main bulkhead (underneath).
"How did AMEL install the masts?":
First of all, the spreaders are attached to the top shrouds as follows:
-bring the shroud along the mast and mark it (with a permanent marker) at the bottom side of the spreader's hex nut. Mark both shrouds the same way at both speaders. At spreader's end, put the eye bolt at the mark.
The intermediate shrouds will be secured at spreader's ends only once the rigging is tuned.

As the main mast is hanging from the top (thanks to a crane), it is set on the mast step, centered thanks to both "hubs". The first shrouds to be secured are the 4 lower shrouds, which is enough to hold the mast in place. The crane is going away.
Then the forestay with genoa furler is installed on its chain-plate, then both top shrouds, then the backstay.
Once the forestay, backstay and top shrouds' turnbuckles are gently tightened by hand, the lower shrouds should be eased a bit, in order not to interfere with the operation of "setting the mast foot flat on its mast step":
-Concerning the top shrouds, this is made by measuring the distance between the top of the lower swage, and the bottom of the clevis pin which secures the shroud into the chain-plate. This distance must be the same on both sides.
-Concerning the forestay and backstay, they are adjusted (by hand) in order there is no gap between the rubber sole and the aluminum mast step (front and aft). If you see no gap from the beginning, and you want to check if it is close to a gap, ease the backstay (two turns) and tighten the forestay (two turns). If you start seeing a gap aft, then ease the forestay again (one turn) and tighten the backstay again (one turn). If there is no gap: GOOD, if there is still a gap aft, then come back to the original position (one turn less on the forestay, one more turn on the backstay).
Now, you can say the mast is "vertical" (in fact, the Santorins, SMs and 54s are never horizontal, back to front, but always with the bow up, which means the mast is leaning slightly aft).
It is vertical but it should also be straight as no strong tension has been put on the shrouds.

Once the mast is vertical, you will start tensioning the shrouds by pairs, checking that the mast is straight after each tensioning, like, for instance:
-two turns on front lower shrouds, two turns on aft lower shrouds, check
-two turns on top shrouds, check
-three turns on forestay, three turns on backstay, check

And so on until the shrouds feel very stiff. In the end, you will tension the front lower shrouds a bit more than the aft ones, in order to initiate a slight curve aft (the middle of the mast being in front of the foot and top) and then only the intermediate shrouds, not too tight.
To confirm the rigging is tight enough, go out sailing, close hauling with 18/20 knots. The mast should keep straight sideways, and not bend forward, the leeward shrouds should not be loose. If the mast bends forward, then tighten the backstay and the front lower shrouds.

If the mast is not "vertical" from the beginning, it will bend front if you  a gap at the front or aft if there is a gap at the aft.

Once the main mast and rigging are set, you can start with the mizzen mast:
-first line it up with the main mast, looking at both from the far aft of the vessel
-then tension the shrouds in order to make a slight curve aft

This is a first description. I probably forgot some details, so... feel free to ask.

Olivier







On Thursday, May 12, 2016 8:58 AM, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:


 
This is mainly directed to Olivier Beaute as it relates to Amel's initial tuning of the masts angle to the boat in the fore/aft direction.   I am in the process of tweaking the tuning done to my standing rigging when I had professional riggers place the new ACMO rigging about 18 months ago now.  My main mast isn't quite straight fore and aft and in fact has a bit of an "S" curve in it.  I plan on adjusting this.  I can measure the side to side straightness by assuring that the mast-top to toenail distance is the same on each side, However, Olivier, how did Amel know when the mast was vertical relative to the step of the mast on the deck when they originally rigged the boat.  Since the deck fore and aft isn't symmetrical I can't quite conjure up a method for assuring that the masts are vertical to their step plate since it is such a small surface area.  The only thing I can think of is to place a straight edge fore and aft across the step plate molded into the fiberglass then actually measuring the angle to assure it is 90 degrees.  Did Amel have a better way, perhaps a measurement from some point on the bow to the mast-top for the main and something similar for the mizzen?  

Thanks for any input you might have.

Sincerely, 

Gary S. Silver  (original owner and the guy you patiently tutored both myself and my family when we took ownership in 2001)
s/v Liahona  Amel SM #335
Puerto Del Rey,  Puerto Rico 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

amelforme
 

Thanks for the Intel. Appreciate it 

Joel F. Potter
THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY
954-812-2485

On May 12, 2016, at 8:18 PM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Joel, the material that came out was powdered rust and blocked the pipe where it was welded into the larger U. There was only about 1cm of blockage, at the end where the small pipe was welded, it was possibly not treated and cleaned or the two pipes and or the welded material were slightly disimular composition stainless steel and allowed surface corrosion too occur  which built up over two years. There was no corrosion evident anywhere else on the piece.


Another thing to check annually.


Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, May 13, 2016, 08:43, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Bob. Good sleuthing. I am puzzled by the ‘blocked with rust’ observation. Chunks of  oxidized metal? A heavy film of rust inside the anti-syphon? Could you give us a bit more of an idea about the corrosion you found? Thanks in advance… Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 6:50 AM
To: yahoogroups <amelyachtowners@...>; Joel Potter <jfpottercys@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

 

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

 

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.


Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY


On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

Bob Grey
 

Joel, the material that came out was powdered rust and blocked the pipe where it was welded into the larger U. There was only about 1cm of blockage, at the end where the small pipe was welded, it was possibly not treated and cleaned or the two pipes and or the welded material were slightly disimular composition stainless steel and allowed surface corrosion too occur  which built up over two years. There was no corrosion evident anywhere else on the piece.

Another thing to check annually.


On Friday, May 13, 2016, 08:43, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hi Bob. Good sleuthing. I am puzzled by the ‘blocked with rust’ observation. Chunks of  oxidized metal? A heavy film of rust inside the anti-syphon? Could you give us a bit more of an idea about the corrosion you found? Thanks in advance… Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 6:50 AM
To: yahoogroups ; Joel Potter
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

 

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

 

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.


Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY


On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

amelforme
 

Hi Bob. Good sleuthing. I am puzzled by the ‘blocked with rust’ observation. Chunks of  oxidized metal? A heavy film of rust inside the anti-syphon? Could you give us a bit more of an idea about the corrosion you found? Thanks in advance… Joel

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 6:50 AM
To: yahoogroups ; Joel Potter
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Hi Joel, was back in the boat today, no obvious trace of any salt water in the inlet manifold, but the Anti syphon air bleed Venturi was blocked with rust. Is a welded stainless steel piece so "rust" is a concern, obviously the water siphoned back into the motor via the wet exhaust on a hard starboard tack due to the blocked air bleed. Possibly into a cylinder and dripped passed the rings over the 12 hour tack.

 

Will now be part of my annual maintenance schedule, to pass a wire through the Venturi hole to ensure it works as designed. The actual u piece is in a difficult position horizontal above the motor so will be re arranging the layout to make the water pipes visible and the Venturi easy to clean without pulling everything apart, will send you a pic of my changes once I finish it.

 

Bob Grey

Renaissance 3

Amel 55 #15.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 11:05, 'Joel Potter' jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ah, Faith and Begorrah then to you Willy. Got the same roots, with a major load of Scots to balance the Hibernian dominance. Oh Eye. Some Yankees remember where they came from….

 

I hope we have helped you walk towards a logical conclusion. I think it is the crankcase ventilation system, but I could be very wrong. Let us know the discovery.

 

All The Best, Joel

Joel F. Potter/Cruising Yacht Specialist LLC

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

954 462 5869 office

954 812 2485 cell

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40 PM
To: Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flooded onan

 

 

Joel, thanks for your imput,  if the anti syphon was clogged and she flooded via the exhaust / inlet valves overlap and crankcase ventilation, the piston would have been top of cycle so minimal water in the cylinder on starting, thus no hydrolock and motor damage. I'm starting to thank my Irish forbears for lucky coincidences. Now if this is correct then I need to unblock the anti syphon U. I might also move the anti syphon "U" higher in the engine room and closer to centerline of boat.

 

Need also to check the inlet manifold and air filter for traces of salt crystals to confirm hypothesis.

Im away from the boat for a week so will report on findings on or about the 10th.


Bob Grey

Amel 55 #25.

Renaissance 3
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Friday, April 29, 2016, 06:17, Joel Potter jfpottercys@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Sorry, accidentally hit send before I finished. When this siphon happens, it usually fills up a cylinder with an open exhaust valve and 'hydro-locks' the engine. If the starter is powerful enough, it can damage Pistons, con rods. And the crankshaft. Since you have run your engine that did not happen. Perhaps your engine has a positive crankcase ventilation system plumbed through the air intake system, I don't know. What a puzzle. I agree with Bill/BEBE, get a tech who knows this gen set to have a look.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

Joel F. Potter

THE EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY


On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, when drained water was not green and level of coolant was not low. Onan not used during crossing about 10 hours heeled on starboard tack.  Agree normally water in oil would be head gasket, ran Onan for 4 hours after second oil change, oil clean and no trace of milkiness.

 

I estimate 1+ liters water, nothing since.

 

I'm scratching my head. Only thing for sure is Onan hull exhaust and cooling water ports would have been under water during crossing.

 

Bob


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, April 28, 2016, 20:42, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bob,

I think that for water to be in the oil from the exhaust, it would have to be pushed past the pistons and rings. This is unlikely because if seawater enters through the exhaust system, it will usually bend or break piston connecting rods.

If your coolant level decreased at the same time, it is most certainly a blown head gasket or cracked head. Did the coolant level decrease? Can you estimate the total increase in volume of the oil including the water?

The most likely cause is a blown head gasket, or some other breach in the coolant pathway. I think that you should get an Onan mechanic on the boat. If you are still under Amel warranty contact SAV.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Refrigeration Compressors - Frigoboat and others using Danfoss

amelforme
 

That’s from the pen of Rob Warren, the owner of Costal  Climate Control. I don’t own shares in his business. He is not my brother in law. He is ‘The Real deal’ and he forgot more about the things he chooses to blog about than most of us will ever know. Seriously, Rob is a soft spoken, modest man who does as he promises and does it right. His recommendations to me and my clients have always been spot on and even his competitors say good things about him. Here’s an example of my experiences with Rob. He was manning a booth at a boat show I had the Amel 55 displaying in. I had a small problem with my Clima air conditioner. He was there in ten minutes and climbed into the engine room and didn’t come out until a few hours later after all was made right. He was absolutely drenched with sweat and looking  worse than fire hosed. It proved to me that he cares more about his customers than anything else. Visit the website www.costalclimatecontrol.com and take a look at Robs advice in the blogs and product representations. He knows of what he speaks. Why this shameless plug? Easy. I like to keep good people happily in business so they can take good care of my clients now and in the future. You will be pleased with everyone who works at Costal Climate Control. Great people all.  

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 11:54 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Refrigeration Compressors - Frigoboat and others using Danfoss

 

 

This link will take you to a really great article on Frigoboat compressors. I really liked how plain-spoken and direct the writer is in this informative article.

http://coastalclimatecontrol.com/index.php/blog/167-so-what-makes-you-think-your-compressor-is-bad.html

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Fore / Aft Tuning

Richard Piller <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Gary you might think about using a laser. Using one of the halyards pulled tight. Shot up the line to check it. Just a thought. Of course I'd also sort of follow the AMEL setup too. 

Regards
Capt Richard Piller

On May 12, 2016, at 09:03, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Gary, I would not expect the mast step to be level, as there is little chance that any boat , sitting in the water is level, due to the allocation of items stored on the boat. I think what you would want to determine is , that the mast is at a right angle, or 90 degrees relative to the mast step. If you ran a thin line from the center of the mast head (fore to aft) to the center of the mast, at the step, pulling the line very tight .Then take a carpenters framing square with the short side resting on the mast step you could determine if the line is parallel to the square along its vertical leg. The line would also show you if the mast is in column ( straight) . If you could extend the long ( vertical ) leg of the square with a straight edge , such as a six ft. level it would give an even more accurate ,easier to read determination that you have a right angle. If the line is running , lets say 1/16 inch from the end of the square two feet up from mast step you could do the math and determine how far the mast is aft or forward of step.
 
Pat SM#123
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: derickgates@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, May 12, 2016 8:09 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Fore / Aft Tuning

 
Gary,

If the mast step is level fore-and-aft (big if, need to measure with a level) then wouldn't a plumb line from the top of the mast should show verticality/alignment of the mast with the mast step and even highlight any S-bend?

Derick

SM2K #400 Brava
Currently in Sapphire Beach Marina, USVI


Refrigeration Compressors - Frigoboat and others using Danfoss

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

This link will take you to a really great article on Frigoboat compressors. I really liked how plain-spoken and direct the writer is in this informative article.

http://coastalclimatecontrol.com/index.php/blog/167-so-what-makes-you-think-your-compressor-is-bad.html

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Graham,

Good question. I do not know the answer because the Plexiglass supplier I used to cut the pieces chose the paint. He did an exact job predrilling all of the holes which matched up exactly.

I can see a few tiny places where he used too much sealant to secure the foam gasket for the port side opening windshield. Take care with the use of sealant on the gasket. Possibly if you can use your router to cut a slightly smaller slot for the gasket, you will not need to use sealant. My guess is this is how Amel did it. Try with some scraps of plexiglass before you decide.

I believe that the paint us an important part of making this look good. I used gray tinted plexiglass. Through the plexiglass the white paint he used looks gray. Probably should have used black paint, but white looks OK. 

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On May 12, 2016 9:38 AM, "crwggb@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am replacing the perspex windows on my fixed wind screen. On removal of the old ones it was observed that the edges of the windows were painted to hide the sealant when in position. Can any one tell me what sort of paint was used for this job and how the perspex was treated prior to painting to allow maximum adhesion.


I believe there has been a thread on this subject before but for the life of me I cant find it, perhaps someone has the message number?


Graham Boyd

SM140 Sula

Hong Kong


Super Maramu Dodger window replacement

Graham Boyd
 

I am replacing the perspex windows on my fixed wind screen. On removal of the old ones it was observed that the edges of the windows were painted to hide the sealant when in position. Can any one tell me what sort of paint was used for this job and how the perspex was treated prior to painting to allow maximum adhesion.


I believe there has been a thread on this subject before but for the life of me I cant find it, perhaps someone has the message number?


Graham Boyd

SM140 Sula

Hong Kong


Re: 24V/230V Inverter

Duane Siegfri
 

Peregrinus,

Thanks for sharing your setup!

Duane