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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts
It makes sense that the prop is one of the first suspects for vibration. We are now in Chesapeake water so not fun to dive on to check, and haul out rather expensive diagnostic strategy. Would like to rule out other vibration inducing possibilities before doing a haul out.
This AutoProp is not greased, and the bearings seemed fine 120 hours ago while on the hard. Mike ALETES SM#240 From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:52 PM To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts Not only growth on the AutoProp, but also is there any play in the blades indicating bad bearings. When were the bearings last replaced and when was the AutoProp last greased and at that time, did you check for bearing play? Bill Rouse BeBe Amel 53 #387 Sent from my tablet +1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail On Jun 13, 2016 3:40 PM, "Richard03801 richard03801@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi after all that one might check you Auto Prop. Any growth will cause an issue. You should normally run smooth. Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All Capt Richard RP Yacht Brokerage Newport RI We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's Cell 603 767 5330 <tel:603%20767%205330> On Jun 13, 2016, at 14:05, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@verizon.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: TO ALL YOU AMEL TROUBLESHOOTERS About 10 days ago I posted the question below regarding engine/c-drive alignment and much to my surprise received no feedback as of yet. Our group typically does not hold back on comments. I do know that alignment is an issue, to the point where some have recommended the use of feeler gauges and being attentive to 1000ths of an inch. My question gets to the point of what is the acceptable tolerance of that alignment. What are the actual effects of being outside the tolerance? As I indicated in my posting, our alignment appeared visually “pretty good” (both vertical alignment and angle) and pulled together perfectly with the tightening of the coupling bolts with minimal deflections of the engine and c-drive mounts. Whatever intolerance there was “seemed” to be taken up by the engine and c-drive mount flexibility. Remember the only parts that were changed in this project were the engine mounts and coupling bushings. No reason to believe there would be any dimensional changes between the c-drive and the engine/transmission/flange assemblies. What I don’t know is what to expect as “reasonable” vibration in the power train assembly when under power. As I said, out of gear the engine is rock solid at virtually any RPM. When in gear, the vibration is quite obvious, and seems to be more that what we remember. Assuming the alignment is the problem, I propose to 1) back off the bolts on the coupling 2) remove the engine-to-frame bolts 3) slide the engine back a cm or so to check vertical alignment 4) make some vertical adjustment to leveling nuts as necessary 5) bring the assembly back together fairly tight 6) use the feeler gauge to verify angular alignment and make final adjustment to leveling nuts 7) re-bolt Thoughts? Mike Ondra ALETES SM#240 Rock Hall, MD From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 5:16 PM To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts QUESTIONS We notice that the engine is quite stationary trough wide RPM range when transmission not engaged. When moving under power, the engine/c-drive assembly vibration/oscillation seems to be in the neighborhood of 1/8". The motion is visible, but no vibration transmits to the vessel. Is this typical, or an indication of poor alignment of the engine/c-drive? Or other cause. Or is the well balance power train perfectly stationary when motoring? THE REST OF THE STORY As a follow up to this posting we did purchase new engine mounts from Jamestown Distributors in Bristol, RI. $168 ea. identical to the original VETUS-MITSTEUN. The installation went well following the aggregated advice of many on the BB. Pat (Shenanigans) provided a 4x4 to span between the cockpit coamings and a come-along made the engine lift easy. We found we had to unbolt the engine from the frame (4 bolts) to slide it aft far enough (1/2") to disconnect the bolts between the coupling and the transmission output shaft flange. Then raised the engine about 3". After disconnecting the 4 bolts supporting the C-drive to its frame, the entire frame assembly could be easily lifted off the 4 bad engine mounts for removal. We had no bolts seized or difficult to remove. No wires were disconnected and the only hose requiring removal was the seawater feeding the transmission heat exchanger. (that hose was replaced with black exhaust hose 1-1/4" which fit perfectly on both ends. Our marina indicated that the OEM plastic hose is no longer rated for below waterline.) There seemed to be little opportunity in the reassembly process for re-alignment horizontally. the only slotted holes being in those in the engine mounts and the amount was minimal, a couple mm. Vertically we attempted to place the leveling nuts on the replacement mounts exactly where there were on the old measuring from the top down as the old were now variably slightly shorter (perhaps compression over time). The bushings on the Vetus coupling were completely worn through on one side resulting in a metal to metal contact and a bit of metal wear. We inserted new bushings. Everything was reassembled all bolts/nuts slightly loose. The engine slid forward and after loosely bolting to the coupling, alignment looked pretty good, not technically measured. The coupling bolts were tightened. With all other bolts loose, we started the engine and engaged the transmission briefly forward and aft under the theory with the bolts loose that the assembly would "settle in". And it did seem to. Again the alignment looked OK. At that point all bolts were tightened. We did not do a precision feeler gauge test nor did we adjust the leveling nuts. Total job about 6 hours with 2 of us. Anyway the new mounts and coupling bushings took care of our knocking sound as well as a generally reduced vibration and engine noise.
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
Alexandre:
Just posted a photo of my BlueSea Installation [posted in a File entitled AC Electric] The panel depicted is in the lower port side of the cabinet above the galley sink right next to the 220 VAC panel. Everything that Bill in his detailed reply is correct for the BlueSea installation. I can't recall if I needed 24 VDC for the installation but if so it is readily available on the floor of the cabinet above the galley sink under a protective panel just to port of the sink. The cover is removed by a traditional Amel phenolic knob. The BlueSea unit has pretty good protection of the connections on the back of the unit but my installation is in a box (Radio Shack) so there is a plastic box on the back of the panel to protect from any potentially exposed high voltage terminals. Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM #335
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
Alexandre:
I installed my BlueSea Multimeter just like the one you have right next to the 220 VAC circuit breaker panel. Of course you want to remove all power to that pane before working on it. I was able to insert the wires right alongside the Amel bundle of wires without drilling any new holes. The wires are small diameter as I recall and there was adequate space. Access is gained by removing the 220 panel on the bulkhead. All the breakers/buss/and wires to them will be exposed. Find the main feed wires to the CB (circuit breaker buss bars and crimped or soldered on ring terminals to attach to L1 & L2 (the blue and brown European feed 220 VAC wires). I presume that you have the model with the torrid for determining the amperage. Install it inside the 220VAC gray plastic box on the supply leads as directed in the installation instructions. The wire bundle supply to the 220 VAC panel is stiff so be careful during your manipulations to not break/crack the plexiglass panel or any of the CBs or buss bars. You should have plenty of wire to reach any reasonable installation location. If you have more questions don't hesitate to ask. Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 SN 335 Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Alex, What you want to measure is volts, current, and frequency going to the 220 volt panel, so connections at the 220 volt panel makes sense and is what I did with the CruzPro meter I installed. I don't think you need to drill holes because I think the holes on the back top of the 220 box will accommodate more wires, but if you do need to drill holes take care of the location. This device may have a circular sensor (coil) to measure amps. If it does, disconnect the hot wire (brown) between the main breaker on the side of the box and the bus at the top of the box... then route that wire through the circular sensor (coil) then connect it back where it originally was located. The other required connections will be to the 220VAC Load (hot) wire (brown) and the 220VAC return (neutral wire (blue). Those two connections can be made at the bus which has large screw terminals at the top inside of the 220VAC breaker box. Your device may be setup for 24VDC lighting. If so, you'll have two wires for that. By setting it up like described above, you can monitor your generator output of volts, amps, and frequency. You can also check volts and frequency of shore power before turning on any device. You can measure the amps that you are currently consuming. Bill Rouse
On Jun 13, 2016 3:06 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Not only growth on the AutoProp, but also is there any play in the blades indicating bad bearings. When were the bearings last replaced and when was the AutoProp last greased and at that time, did you check for bearing play? Bill Rouse
On Jun 13, 2016 3:40 PM, "Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts
Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
Hi after all that one might check you Auto Prop. Any growth will cause an issue. You should normally run smooth. Fair Winds Smooth Sailing To All Capt Richard RP Yacht Brokerage Newport RI We list sell and service fine yachts including Amel's Cell 603 767 5330
On Jun 13, 2016, at 14:05, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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[Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good afternoon,
I just received the Blue Sea AC Multimeter 8247 https://www.bluesea.com/products/8247/AC_Digital_Multi-Function_Meter_with_Alarm I read the instruction and understand it needs to be connected to the A/C Line 1 and A/C Line 2. Should I connect of the Blue Sea to the Line 1 and 2 “before” it goes to the (water resistant) box of the 220 Volt panel (in which case they could potentially be exposed to water) Or should I connect them after it goes to the 220 Volt panel box, in which case how do I have the wire going out of it (without making new holes). Note I could run longer 16 gage to the BlueSea, but the twisted wire won't be long enough... Pictures of installation would be nice… As always, thanks in advance. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts
TO ALL YOU AMEL TROUBLESHOOTERS
About 10 days ago I posted the question below regarding engine/c-drive alignment and much to my surprise received no feedback as of yet. Our group typically does not hold back on comments.
I do know that alignment is an issue, to the point where some have recommended the use of feeler gauges and being attentive to 1000ths of an inch. My question gets to the point of what is the acceptable tolerance of that alignment. What are the actual effects of being outside the tolerance?
As I indicated in my posting, our alignment appeared visually “pretty good” (both vertical alignment and angle) and pulled together perfectly with the tightening of the coupling bolts with minimal deflections of the engine and c-drive mounts. Whatever intolerance there was “seemed” to be taken up by the engine and c-drive mount flexibility. Remember the only parts that were changed in this project were the engine mounts and coupling bushings. No reason to believe there would be any dimensional changes between the c-drive and the engine/transmission/flange assemblies.
What I don’t know is what to expect as “reasonable” vibration in the power train assembly when under power. As I said, out of gear the engine is rock solid at virtually any RPM. When in gear, the vibration is quite obvious, and seems to be more that what we remember.
Assuming the alignment is the problem, I propose to 1) back off the bolts on the coupling 2) remove the engine-to-frame bolts 3) slide the engine back a cm or so to check vertical alignment 4) make some vertical adjustment to leveling nuts as necessary 5) bring the assembly back together fairly tight 6) use the feeler gauge to verify angular alignment and make final adjustment to leveling nuts 7) re-bolt
Thoughts?
Mike Ondra ALETES SM#240 Rock Hall, MD
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 5:16 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Volvo TMD22 engine mounts
QUESTIONS We notice that the engine is quite stationary trough wide RPM range when transmission not engaged. When moving under power, the engine/c-drive assembly vibration/oscillation seems to be in the neighborhood of 1/8". The motion is visible, but no vibration transmits to the vessel. Is this typical, or an indication of poor alignment of the engine/c-drive? Or other cause. Or is the well balance power train perfectly stationary when motoring?
THE REST OF THE STORY As a follow up to this posting we did purchase new engine mounts from Jamestown Distributors in Bristol, RI. $168 ea. identical to the original VETUS-MITSTEUN. The installation went well following the aggregated advice of many on the BB. Pat (Shenanigans) provided a 4x4 to span between the cockpit coamings and a come-along made the engine lift easy. We found we had to unbolt the engine from the frame (4 bolts) to slide it aft far enough (1/2") to disconnect the bolts between the coupling and the transmission output shaft flange. Then raised the engine about 3". After disconnecting the 4 bolts supporting the C-drive to its frame, the entire frame assembly could be easily lifted off the 4 bad engine mounts for removal. We had no bolts seized or difficult to remove. No wires were disconnected and the only hose requiring removal was the seawater feeding the transmission heat exchanger. (that hose was replaced with black exhaust hose 1-1/4" which fit perfectly on both ends. Our marina indicated that the OEM plastic hose is no longer rated for below waterline.) There seemed to be little opportunity in the reassembly process for re-alignment horizontally. the only slotted holes being in those in the engine mounts and the amount was minimal, a couple mm. Vertically we attempted to place the leveling nuts on the replacement mounts exactly where there were on the old measuring from the top down as the old were now variably slightly shorter (perhaps compression over time). The bushings on the Vetus coupling were completely worn through on one side resulting in a metal to metal contact and a bit of metal wear. We inserted new bushings. Everything was reassembled all bolts/nuts slightly loose. The engine slid forward and after loosely bolting to the coupling, alignment looked pretty good, not technically measured. The coupling bolts were tightened. With all other bolts loose, we started the engine and engaged the transmission briefly forward and aft under the theory with the bolts loose that the assembly would "settle in". And it did seem to. Again the alignment looked OK. At that point all bolts were tightened. We did not do a precision feeler gauge test nor did we adjust the leveling nuts. Total job about 6 hours with 2 of us.
Anyway the new mounts and coupling bushings took care of our knocking sound as well as a generally reduced vibration and engine noise.
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Bow Thruster and wear bushing service hints that are not in instructions
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Someone asked me for some service hints. The following is what I wrote and wanted to share with everyone. When I have good enough internet, I will add these hints to the instructions. Prop shaft wear bushing hints: Remove the new O ring inside the new wear bushing. Grease it and fill its slot in the bushing with waterproof grease. Reinsert the O ring. This is where some water will enter. Orientation and position of the seals are equally very important. A common mistake is to have the outer seal in the wrong position (in/out), and/or change orientation of the seals because you think you are smarter than Captain Amel. Read the instructions carefully. Double check as you do it. You might damage one of these seals. Always be sure to have extras. Bow Thruster service hints: Bill Rouse
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Marina Recommendations in NJ?
greatketch@...
Thanks to everybody who had specific recommendations.
I was hoping for something more in New Jersey and less in New York, especially less in New York City! But... originally being a Jersey Boy I knew going into this that the Jersey Shore is not a friendly place for a deep-draft boat. The very few marinas we found who had sufficient water either had no transient slips or none available for us. By slowly widening our search circle we did find a spot at Sandy Hook Marina in Atlantic Highlands for July. A bit further north than I was hoping for, but not too bad. I have used ActiveCaptain as a resource and will again. I do frequently find it tedious because like everything on the internet (including what I write!) it has a some good information intermixed with errors, fantasies, and confusions. We called several places based on ActiveCaptain information and found what is written ain't necessarily so! Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie
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Hi Derick
sailormon <kimberlite@...>
Hi Derick, Are you in Sint Maarten now? I expect to be there Thursday afternoon. We are at Simpson Bay Yacht Club. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:13 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mizzen Roller Reefing
I took the frozen shaft to FKG in Sint Maarten, and they were able to remove the very tight Allen wrench bolt and free up the shaft rotation. Apparently there was some corrosion that had built up in the connecting shaft. Best advice, crank you mizzen back and forth every once in a while to prevent corrosion buildup!
I added some lithium grease to the bevel gears before reassembly, and used blue locktite on the aluminum threads joining the shaft to the main gear housing. After fitting the whole assembly back into the mizzen, I put the foil back on the main gear housing, and then put mizzen sail back on the foil. Everything now works smoothly as expected.
I posted a few more photos in the SM Mizzen Gearbox album to show the greasing of the bevel gear and the final assembly before reinstallation on the mizzen mast.
Derick SM2K#400 Brava
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Re: Mizzen Roller Reefing
I took the frozen shaft to FKG in Sint Maarten, and they were able to remove the very tight Allen wrench bolt and free up the shaft rotation. Apparently there was some corrosion that had built up in the connecting shaft. Best advice, crank you mizzen back and forth every once in a while to prevent corrosion buildup!
I added some lithium grease to the bevel gears before reassembly, and used blue locktite on the aluminum threads joining the shaft to the main gear housing. After fitting the whole assembly back into the mizzen, I put the foil back on the main gear housing, and then put mizzen sail back on the foil. Everything now works smoothly as expected. I posted a few more photos in the SM Mizzen Gearbox album to show the greasing of the bevel gear and the final assembly before reinstallation on the mizzen mast. Derick SM2K#400 Brava
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Re: bow thruster service. Problem
Yes, Enio, that's how you would use it.
Good luck, Craig
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
The Amel Bow Thruster shaft tube removal tool is placed around the black shaft tube just under the motor (engine). It is clamped securely to the shaft tube. Then you turn the bolts which will press against the motor (engine). This will cause the motor (engine) and the shaft tube to separate. Be prepared for the separation or the bow thruster will fall to the ground. This rust which is holding the black shaft tube to the electric motor is caused by saltwater leaking past the seals and possibly by leaving the bow thruster down in rough water. Other causes are an overloaded boat with too much weight in the bow. Also forgetting to use the safety pin when the bow thruster is raised. Be sure to clean the bottom of the motor where the shaft tube meets and visually inspect the bearing on the shaft of the motor. That bearing may need replacing. If it does, be sure to hire a highly qualified electric motor repairman. That motor is no longer available and you do not want to damage it or ruin it. When reassembling use plenty of waterproof grease at the junction of the shaft tube and the motor. I recommend service during every haulout...about every 2 years. Bill Rouse
On Jun 13, 2016 2:45 AM, "rossienio@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel 54 how to chenge bow thruster oil
ya_fohi
Indeed I did miss Olivier's replay, apologies. It seems to answer the question. My hull number is 98 and it does drain from the bottom.
Cheers, Paul
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Re: bow thruster service. Problem
rossienio@...
Good morning, I did what told me Craig (chain wrench used with extension, taping with hammer), but the thruster black shaft does NOT want to move. I think I'll try the Amel tool. Could someone explain to me where you place the tool and how to use it? It should be put around the shaft and pushed down by turning the screws which press under of the engine? Thanks to anyone who can help me.
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Amel 54 how to chenge bow thruster oil
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Paul, Apparently you did not see Olivier's reply and question to you in this thread. He answered your questions and asked you a question. There is no person in this Group that knows more about this subject than Olivier. I copied and pasted his posting below: <>>>> The bow-thruster of the AMEL 54 is an AMEL design built on a SLEIPNER SIDE POWER basis. AMEL makes it retractable. It has two props with 4 and then 5 (later models) blades each, more protected than on a Santorin/SM... Paul, depending on your hull number, there is a drain plug at the bottom of the bow-thruster gear -box. The oil drains very slowly and you can fill it from the top oil container (very slow too, warm up the oil in the sun before you put it in the container). The last AMEL 54 have a bow-thruster with a non-drainable gear-box. The unit is said to be "lubricated for life" by Sleipner. However, if you remove the lip-seals at the prop-shafts, the oil will drain, and you will need to put new oil from the top of the drive shaft tube (just like on a Santorin or SM). Paul, can you tell your hull number? Cheers. Olivier Bill Rouse
On Jun 12, 2016 8:32 AM, "sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: Amel 54 how to chenge bow thruster oil
ya_fohi
Thanks for the advice Craig. I wonder if anyone on this forum has actually changed the oil before by filling from the top?
Paul
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Re: Amel 54 how to chenge bow thruster oil
Paul,
It sounds like filling from the top would work although the yard guys may have a point about filling from the bottom drain hole like an outboard lower unit to avoid air pockets. Any chandlery will have a very inexpensive manual pump they sell with the gear oil, if that would fit. Craig SN#68 Sangaris
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mizzen Roller Reefing
VLADIMIR SONSEV
Thanks a lot!!
On Jun 10, 2016 10:58 PM, "derickgates@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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