Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Problem with the fresh water preassure switch

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Assuming you have the SquareD pressure switch. There are two adjustment points that you adjust a bolt that is through a spring. Adjusting takes trial and error. You must adjust one before the other. I think that you will find instructions and even videos if you Google SquareD pressure switch adjustment.

One of the issues with this switch is that the orifice can get clogged and cause the switch to do what it is doing to you. If you got to PHOTOS in the Amel Owners Group website and type "pressure" in the search box, you will see an album named "Fresh Water System" which will show you a clogged orifice and other info.

I would remove the switch and clean the orifice before I did anything....take a photo of the wiring so you can rewire it correctly.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 12:19 PM, "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello
Something wrong with our I think original pressure switch. It does work occasionally when not working. A light tap will make the pump start. Anyone have any idea how to fix? It looks as if the switch is OK but the pump will not start without the light tap
Paul on SYKerpa SM 259


New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.


File : /Fresh water/Pressure switch fresh water.pdf
Uploaded by : super_maramu_436 <amel-sm2k@gmx.de>
Description :


You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,


super_maramu_436 <amel-sm2k@gmx.de>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

hanspeter baettig
 

to check the right way the batteries; each batterie has to be disconnect from the bus. Then wait at least 8 hours to check each batterie with a professional Bat Tester which print you the real status of the individual batterie status. Also a hint. Clean the connection on the shunt. The Shunt is connected in the negative big bat cabel. Go for google to understand what a shunt is for. To find out where your shunt is, look in your Amel Technical Manuals.
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:46 schrieb 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Re: Problem with the fresh water preassure switch

Walter
 

Hi Paul,
we changed the pressure switch once on Noa, SM2K 436, because the contacts became worn. It is an industrial standard model and sold all over the world, Square D, the company is Schneider Electric. You just have to choose the correct features/connectors. I´ll post a pdf in the file section under a new "fresh water" folder which explains the features. If you don´t get the Square D right away, you´ll get plenty of cheap copies for inbetween.

Regards
Walter (Noa, SM2K 436)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Problem with the fresh water preassure switch

James Studdart
 

Hi Paul,
Ours was sticking in the on position (not off). I sprayed a tiny bit of silicon wd-40 on it and checked/adjusted the pressure setting. Since then it's been working perfectly again. I ordered a new one as a spare (15 euros or so). It's also worth getting the one way valve while you're a it.

Cheers,
James
SeaBean - SM #344 - In Majorca for a few days on the way to Gibraltar.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:19 PM osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello
Something wrong with our I think original pressure switch. It does work occasionally when not working. A light tap will make the pump start. Anyone have any idea how to fix? It looks as if the switch is OK but the pump will not start without the light tap
Paul on SYKerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

I would take Hans Peter up on his odfer.

But, one question are you measuring the 24 Volts with anything on like refrigeration?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 12:03 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hmmm, thanks Bill.  Yes, I disconnected each battery from the others for testing, and discharged the "surface charge" with a 12v light before testing.

I guess I should read about the discharge characteristics of the batteries, but doesn't it seem to you that the 400Ah bank should not be discharging to 24V after 10-12 hours of discharging at ~4A?  When I first installed them, the lasted almost 24 hours at the same discharge rate.

Kent


On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:46 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] OLDER MARAMU REPOWERING WITH YANMAR 4JH4-HTE WATER INGRESS EXHAUST

James Alton
 

Alex,
   This is the same upgrade that I am considering.  Can 
You tell if the new engine is a smaller footprint than the Perkins?
   On to your flooding problem...  The engine is of course below the waterline and since seawater is connected to the cooling system it wants to fill the engine.  You protect it from doing this by looping the raw water as high as possible and providing a vent to prevent siphoning.  It is quite common for a vented loop to get salt or something in the vent causing the vent to not function.  If this happens during shutdown and there is a lot of water in loop it can siphon feed into the engine.  I like to eliminate the vent vslve and run a small tube out the side of the boat so that when the engine is running you have a stream of water showing that the vent line is open.  Watch out for dirt dobbers and other insects that can plug the hole... Another less likely issue is the larger hose size.  You can figure with the engine running that the hose will be filled with about 50 percent water.  Calculate the volume of the hose that is draining back to the muffler or pull the hose off the muffler after a shutdown to check the level visually...you need extra volume for safety.   One final check if none of these help is to see if your muffler might have an air leak in the stand pipe which prevents if from blowing out the water properly.
Best of luck
James 


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "alex.paquin@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-14-2016 10:42 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] OLDER MARAMU REPOWERING WITH YANMAR 4JH4-HTE WATER INGRESS EXHAUST


 

Good morning to all. We repowered our Older 1981 Maramu with a Yanmar 4JH4-HTE work completed 2 1/2 years ago. The engine now has less than 300 hours.Previous engine was a Perkins 4154. We have had two incidents.

1. Carter flooded with seawater from the exhaust from overcranking. Inadvertently the engine ran about 20 minutes in this condition. The engine had less then 100 hours when this ocurred. The engine was left like this for 30 days. When we realized what had happened we made 6 oil and filter changes to flush the engine. The engine started with some difficulty but operated normally when used for another 200 hours approx.in the course of 2 years.


2. Last week after being shut down one month, the engine would not turn. We decided to remove the valve cover and injectors and found cylinder No.1 with one cup of seawater. Water apparently entered when it was shut down. That cylinder was with the exhaust valve open.


We removed the water and flooded all cylinders with WD-40 and 15-W40 engine oil to attempt getting the pistons unstuck.


The raw water intake was left identical to the original arrangement which worked well with the Perkins. The diameter of the Yanmar Exhaust is 3" slightly larger than the Perkins´ and therefore modified the Amel supplied SS muffler which is in good condition for this diameter. The exhaust hose after the muffler was changed but is slighty less diameter than the 3" from the engine.

Also we had to relocate the muffler to the port side to adapt to the new Yanmar exhaust location.


Obviously there is a hydraulics problem I don´t understand very well. I posted some pics of the installation we have now. The 3" exhaust hose from the Yanmar does curve up before coupling to the muffler, that could be a problem.


I seek some advice from the group members regarding what should we do with the engine (first aid) and second the hydraulics of the exhaust system, where did we go wrong?


Alex Paquin

SIMPATICO

Older Maramu 1981, hull #94


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem

Craig Briggs
 

Enio,
No, don't hammer on the tube - only on the metal of the electric motor. You might try tightening your extraction tool AND using the chain wrench around the electric motor base. Keep at it for a few hours each day and it will eventually loosen up (I think :-)
Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris


Problem with the fresh water preassure switch

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello
Something wrong with our I think original pressure switch. It does work occasionally when not working. A light tap will make the pump start. Anyone have any idea how to fix? It looks as if the switch is OK but the pump will not start without the light tap
Paul on SYKerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Blue Sea AC Multimeter Installation

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Alexandre:

I downloaded and re-viewed the installation instructions for this multimeter.  It does say that the wattmeter sensor wires (twisted pair) can be extended up to 25 feet!  

The polarity of the wires isn't an issue for the amperage reading but is for the watt reading.  It says that if you install it and the amps reads ok but the watts doesn't then reverse the polarity of the wires on the back of the multimeter. It also confirmed that the twisted pair (as I suspected) is used to limit RF (radio frequency) electric noise that can interfere with other systems. 

Good luck and be careful with the deadly voltages/currents on the 220 VAC system. 

Gary S. Silver
SM #335


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

karkauai
 

Hmmm, thanks Bill.  Yes, I disconnected each battery from the others for testing, and discharged the "surface charge" with a 12v light before testing.

I guess I should read about the discharge characteristics of the batteries, but doesn't it seem to you that the 400Ah bank should not be discharging to 24V after 10-12 hours of discharging at ~4A?  When I first installed them, the lasted almost 24 hours at the same discharge rate.

Kent


On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:46 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Kent
do you have the original Amel set up for your 8 115 AH Batteries Bank?
The floating Voltage should be 27.2 -27.3 V when Engine, Genset or Landpower or with the 24 V Alternator when motoring after lets say 6-8 hours or less depending on the charge level of the batteries.
Send a picture how the Batteries are connected to the charger; that means from what point of the batterie bank the two big cabels goes to the main batterie switches in the engine room. Unfortunately there are a lot of non professional info about batteries in this forum. I keep the ball down but I'm a Electric Engineer with quite a lot of know how about this subject. If you whish I can send you my email to support you.
regards
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 14.06.2016 um 17:19 schrieb Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Re: Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Kent:

I run Trojan SCS225 flooded leaded acid batteries and I have followed the specific gravity (SG) readings of each cell of all my batteries and tracked them in a spreadsheet.  It is amazing to me to see the individual variability between cells and between batteries.  The one additional test I would recommend to you to verify that there is/isn't a problem would be to get a quality hydrometer and test the SG of each cell.  I found a bad single cell once on an otherwise normal appearing battery.  

Just a thought, 

Gary S. Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 2000 #335   Puerto Del Rey   Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Outhaul rope problem

Paul Osterberg
 

Thanks
Today they have ropes where there are soposed to be no sliding between the core and the cover but they cone at a premium
Paul SYKERPA SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Outhaul rope problem

karkauai
 

Hey, Bill,
The contact cement was first suggested by Ian Shepherd and commented on by John Hollamby. Topic is "Outhaul" in 2007-2008.
My new 7/16" Samson XLS line was slippery and wouldn't hold.  I took their advice and it worked great.  After a few weeks the line had roughened up a bit and has held well since.
What is your concern?  Incompatibility between material in the line and the glue?

Thanks,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:29 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Paul,

I would caution you in adding contact cement to your outhaul line.

I saw what Kent said. He said somebody (we do not know who) said this worked fir them.

I am highly suspicious of the suggestion, and even more suspicious when I di not know who tried this.

I am almost certain it will not work for you.

Here is what I think has happened:
Over the years rope makers have taken filament and fiber out of the rope. I can take any high quality 10mm rope and pinch it with my fingers to 8 or 9mm. A low quality rope I can pinch to 7mm. That Anderson winch on the boom was designed for rope made yesterday. I suggest you find the very highest quality non-stretch 12mm line and install it as tight as you can. You may have to tighten it up in a few weeks. Unless you buy the original 10mm line that Amel used, 10mm will not work because 10mm is really not 10mm anymore. In January of this year Amel at Hyeres supplied me with an original 10mm Kevlar line...maybe they still have some.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 10:37 AM, "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you all, will start with the contact cement looks as a cost efficient solution.
I have tension the line a few times now, so when no tension from sail I can almost play a tune on it, but when closed hauled it creep and lose tension
Paul on SYKerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Outhaul rope problem

Paul Osterberg
 

You are probably right about the dimensions, we now have a 12 mm Marlow Dynnema. And today we sailed upwind in 22 knot wind with no problems but I had to tension the line
Paul SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Did you totally disconnect each battery when testing it? Also, I think I read somewhere that when testing batteries they should be off of the charger for 30 minutes. I am not sure about this, but this is what I do.

An internal short will account for a battery taking more from the charger, but your tester should identify a short.

Somewhere else I believe that I read that some batteries in a bank will discharge more than others, resulting in those needing more charge...google for this or maybe ask a marine battery expert.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:19 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

I have non-sealed batteries.  The water level is fine...I added less than a liter to all 8 batteries.  (that was Derick who added 2 gallons of water).  
The charger is set for flooded lead-acid batteries.  When the voltage is 24V, the charger voltage goes up to 26 v+/- and charges at 50-53 A for a short time, then amps slowly drop and the voltage increases as the batteries fill up. At float charge it reads 26v.  It acts like it is working properly, but I will look up the advertised charging characteristics for the lead-acid setting to see if it matches what I am seeing.

I don't have solar or wind yet.

The voltage and amperage I measure is the same as I am reading on my 24v monitor, but as I said earlier, when I look at the amperage going into each battery pair, one pair seems to be getting an amp more than the other pairs early in the charging cycle.

To me, it seems that the system acts like there is a much smaller Ah battery bank than the 400 Ah I should have.  I have checked all connections,  confirmed that all batteries in the bank are at the same voltage, and tested for CCA with my Solar (TM) battery tester.  The only anomalies I find are that one pair is charging at a higher rate than the others early in the charging cycle, and during discharge (charger off) two pairs are discharging at 1.6A, and two pairs at 0.6A.  That makes me think that either the connections are not all good (they all test No Resistance), or I have a bad battery or two (they all test the same with the battery tester).

During all phases of charging, there are no batteries that feel warm to the touch.

Thanks again
Kent




On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,


I’ll elaborate a bit on Bill R’s questions…  

The amount of water you are adding to your batteries is above normal.  Water does not leave a battery by evaporation, no matter how hot it is in the Caribbean! It leaves by being converted to hydrogen gas during the charging process.  The amount of water your batteries are using would lead me (and Bill R.  to guess your batteries are being overcharged.

Do all the individual batteries take the same amount of water?

Do you know what the acceptance and float voltages are for your charging system?

How are your solar panels controlled?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie

On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:02, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,

Is the charger switched to match the charging characteristics of your batteries? Didn't you switch the type of batteries and the charger? Has a qualified person checked the charging characteristics...and, did he determine that the charger is actually outputting the correct charging characteristics?

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

 

Kent,


Did you get sealed batteries?  If not, have you checked the fluid levels?  I just replaced my batteries with 12 Trojan SCS200 batteries (115AH) in January in Martinique.  Unlike my previous sealed batteries, I am able to/need to open the vents and add distilled water.  I found that even when new, water needed to be added to several of the cells.  In the last 5 months, I have checked the fluid levels twice and have added a total of about 2 gallons of distilled water!  The Caribbean is one hot place!!  I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer installed in the battery compartment to monitor the temperature when the batteries are charging (thanks for the suggestion Bill Rouse).  The battery compartment usually stays a couple of degrees above ambient.

I will check them one more time before putting Brava up on the hard for hurricane season, leaving the solar power on to keep them topped up i n voltage but with only the freshwater pump and the bilge pump left in the on position.  The former will rinse the Dessalator membranes once a week for three minutes with fresh water from the tank.

It seems early in the life of your batteries to have to desulfate them, but maybe that would be worth a try.

Derick
SM2K#400 Brava




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC cable sizing for larger charger

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

The 50 failed.  Got water from a ruptured hose.  Seems I may be better staying with 60 amps because of cable size

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:03 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Ben,

Are you replacing your Dolphin 50 Amp because it also failed? Or just because you want to upgrade.
If it is still working, I might be interested.

My Dolphin 50 amp failed 2 years ago, I replaced it with a 60 amp MDP (which had purchased Dolphin).
Then I thought my 30 amp was failing, but did not, and I replaced it with a MDP 40 amp.

I thought I could have them both work together (like the Dolphin 30 and 50 could) but apparently not… I contacted the company but have not heard back…

In my case I did not replace the AC nor DC wires, but I stayed on the safe side and picked 40 and 60 Amp.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/14/16, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC cable sizing for larger charger
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2016, 9:46 AM


 









I recently replaced my failed Dolhin
30 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 60 Amp charger.  I did not
upgrade either th AC or DC wiring.  All seems to work well.
 Now I'm considering replacing the 50 Amp charger with
a Mastervolt 80 or 100 Amp unit.  I think AC input wire
size is OK.   Amel used the same size wire for both 30 and
50 Amp units.  My concern is DC wire size.    Not sure
but it appears to be 25mm sq. (3 AWG).  Again Amel used
same size for both 30 and 50 Amp chargers.  My question is
will this size wire support larger charger?  Or will I need
upgrade to 35 or 50mm sq.?  Has anyone done this upgrade
without wiring upgrade?
Ben
DriverLa Blla VitaSM
347Prickly Bay
Grenada












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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC cable sizing for larger charger

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Thanks Bill.  Makes sense

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:29 AM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

There isn’t a hard and fast simple answer to this question, but here are the things to consider.


For this application, the normally recommended voltage drop would be 3%.  I am guessing that the run of wire from the charger to the batteries is 25 feet.

Pushing 100 AMPS through 3 AWG wire for this distance will give a voltage drop of about 1 volt or 4% of 24 volts.

To drop this number down to below 3% would take 1 AWG wire (0.62 volts/2.6%)

To give you a feel for the design criteria used in the original installation, pushing 50 amps through 3AWG wire 25 feet would give a drop of 0.5 volts or 2%.

Make sense?


On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:46, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I recently replaced my failed Dolhin 30 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 60 Amp charger.  I did not upgrade either th AC or DC wiring.  All seems to work well.  Now I'm considering replacing the 50 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 80 or 100 Amp unit.  I think AC input wire size is OK.   Amel used the same size wire for both 30 and 50 Amp units.  My concern is DC wire size.    Not sure but it appears to be 25mm sq. (3 AWG).  Again Amel used same size for both 30 and 50 Amp chargers.  My question is will this size wire support larger charger?  Or will I need upgrade to 35 or 50mm sq.?  Has anyone done this upgrade without wiring upgrade?


Ben Driver

La Blla Vita

SM 347

Prickly Bay Grenada







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Outhaul rope problem

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill

The original Kevlar 10mm line is covered line.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 11:34 AM, "Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Another thing with this type of system that has not been mentioned…  do not use a “covered” line.  


When driven by a toothed wheel like our outhaul, the cover can be held tightly and the inside core can slip.  A single braid uncovered line is the best choice.




On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:29, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Paul,

I would caution you in adding contact cement to your outhaul line. 

I saw what Kent said. He said somebody (we do not know who) said this worked fir them.

I am highly suspicious of the suggestion, and even more suspicious when I di not know who tried this.

I am almost certain it will not work for you.

Here is what I think has happened: 
Over the years rope makers have taken filament and fiber out of the rope. I can take any high quality 10mm rope and pinch it with my fingers to 8 or 9mm. A low quality rope I can pinch to 7mm. That Anderson winch on the boom was designed for rope made yesterday. I suggest you find the very highest quality non-stretch 12mm line and install it as tight as you can. You may have to tighten it up in a few weeks. Unless you buy the original 10mm line that Amel used, 10mm will not work because 10mm is really not 10mm anymore. In January of this year Amel at Hyeres supplied me with an original 10mm Kevlar line...maybe they still have some. 

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 14, 2016 10:37 AM, "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you all, will start with the contact cement looks as a cost efficient solution. 
I have tension the line a few times now, so when no tension from sail I can almost play a tune on it, but when closed hauled it creep and lose tension 
Paul on SYKerpa SM 259