Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

seagasm@...
 

Hello Colin & Lauren, I too was sorry I missed you. I have gone ahead with the first stage, purchased ES97MFD, it is going to be interesting to see what I can do here. Yes I would like to keep in touch, my e-mail is seagasm at gmail dot com. As soon as this is installed although not completed, we will be off to the Whitsundays and hang out about there for a while.

Kind Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM#171


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Bob Grey
 

Alexander, I run two anchors on my Amel 55, but also two anchor winches, so it's a main starboard anchor with 100 meters chain and a port anchor with 10 meters of chain and 60 meters of rope.

I'm very happy with the setup although I rarely use the second anchor. 


Bob Grey
Renaissance 3

On Saturday, June 18, 2016, 07:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 



Good afternoon,

I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”).

So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).
As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can teach me its use).
Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000 


Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000

Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000




To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily deployable.
but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor roller there, etc.)

My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors…
Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).
So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination chain (+ rope).
I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”

Thanks in advance…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


[Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon,

I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”).

So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).
As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can teach me its use).
http://www.nikimat.com/anchor_roller.html

To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily deployable.
but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor roller there, etc.)


My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors…
Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).
So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination chain (+ rope).
I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”

Thanks in advance…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Forgot to add…

Rather than the cost of a second multifuction display at the nav station, we’re adding Navico’s WiFi router, and using the their GoFree app on our iPad to echo the main display.  That worked great for us on our last boat.  I imagine, but don’t know for sure, that Raymarine does something similar.

When I first chose Navico (B&G/Simrad/Lawrence) over Raymarine, it was some time ago. Then, B&G was much more sailing oriented, and their radar was much better.  From what I see now, they are really pretty similar, and you are best to go with what you are used to.

If you are working with Nmea2000, pretty much everybody’s sensors and displays are plug and play.  Way, way, easier than trying to get multiple devices to share data on Nmea0183




On Jun 17, 2016, at 10:03, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

talks


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Greetings Gang,

Eleuthera is hull number 007!!!  When we bought her she had not had any upgrade since day one.

We changed all electronics and for many resons we chose Raymarine:
- More dealers
- Price
- Integration

The items we chose are:
- A 98 plotter at the helm with Down Vision option
- A 75 plotter at the nav station.
- AP 400 hydraulic autopilot.  We kept the 7000 too.
- AIS A & B
- Radar 12 KW with bar transmitter (72 NM)

The benefits:
- The NAV station is far less cluttered.  The previous Furuno CRT is gone.
- All Ray gear is integrated in WIFI.
- Can control the boat through the iPad or i Phone.
- We added 2 large book bins with the space saved by the upgrade.
- Redundancy is better.

GL with your decision


Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007



On 17 Jun 2016, at 18:43, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Yes, we also have 3 GPS sources:


1.  The B&G ZG100 GPS sensor
2.  The GPS built into the B&G Zeus2
3.  The GPS antenna dedicated to the B&G AIS (NAIS-400)

Any of those can be set as the "master" for the entire network.  I've switched among them on the fly and tried to see if there was any difference in position or SOG, and as expected, there was nothing discernible.

Cheerio,


Peregrinus
SM2K n. 350






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC cable sizing for larger charger

Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Hi Steve, 
We may end up at Prt Royal as well.  Not sure yet.  But do know Prickly Bay would not be good in a major storm.  I believe the British SM you refer to is owned by John and Pam Clarke whom we met in Culebra PR. I believe the name was "Kaimen".  If so, they have their son - Denzil - on board to keep it ship-shape.  Look forward to meeting you.    

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 16, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ben, 

We just arrived at Port Louis Marina a few hours ago after an overnight from Trinidad. We are right next to Rascal and another British owned SM2000, and nobody else near us. Plenty of room to make it a foursome. 

My first impressions of Port Louis is a very high end Marina, well built and protected, and everything you need very close by. It is a bit expensive, but I think it is very survivable here in the event of a hurricane. I'm also heading back to the USA to make some money this summer, but my wife Liz will be here on Aloha most of the time. She will look after Rascal while Rick and Linda are away, and Im sure she would be happy to do the same for you guys if you end up here. 

Hope we get to meet soon. 

Steve
Aloha SM72

On Jun 15, 2016, at 23:13, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Steve.  I agree.  Sixty Amps is max with my current DC cabling which would be a lot of work to upgrade.  We too are checking Marinas out in St George as Gayle and I may be going back to California for several months work.

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 14, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ben,

We have a Mastervolt 100 amp charger on Aloha, but have a different setup than you. We are hull #72, have a shorter cable run, and I went with 1/0 battery cable, which was a bit of an overkill. I think Bill's advice was excellent, and unless you are willing to up your cable size, you should probably stick to a smaller charger. Mastervolt also makes an 80 amp charger, and maybe the numbers would look a bit better with that. 

We are headed from Trinidad to Grenada tomorrow night, and will be at Port Louis Marina next to Rick and Linda on Rascal. Hope we can get together in Grenada. 

Regards,
Steve and Liz
Aloha SM72
Trinidad for not much longer...

On Jun 14, 2016, at 18:53, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It seems 100 amps will challenge my existing 25mm sq wiring.  Looks like I will keep it at 60 amp max 

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

When I bought a new charger I went with a 60A.  The cables from the charger go through the forward starboard corner of the engine room, then under the raised "step" between the Nav station and passageway to the battery compartment.  In that area under the "step", they are encased in a very hard material and would be very hard to replace.  You would have to look at the specs required for your new charger to see if the existing ones are adequate for the amperage and distance.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:46 AM, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I recently replaced my failed Dolhin 30 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 60 Amp charger.  I did not upgrade either th AC or DC wiring.  All seems to work well.  Now I'm considering replacing the 50 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 80 or 100 Amp unit.  I think AC input wire size is OK.   Amel used the same size wire for both 30 and 50 Amp units.  My concern is DC wire size.    Not sure but it appears to be 25mm sq. (3 AWG).  Again Amel used same size for both 30 and 50 Amp chargers.  My question is will this size wire support larger charger?  Or will I need upgrade to 35 or 50mm sq.?  Has anyone done this upgrade without wiring upgrade?


Ben Driver

La Blla Vita

SM 347

Prickly Bay Grenada





Re: Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Yes, we also have 3 GPS sources:

1.  The B&G ZG100 GPS sensor
2.  The GPS built into the B&G Zeus2
3.  The GPS antenna dedicated to the B&G AIS (NAIS-400)

Any of those can be set as the "master" for the entire network.  I've switched among them on the fly and tried to see if there was any difference in position or SOG, and as expected, there was nothing discernible.

Cheerio,


Peregrinus
SM2K n. 350



Re: Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

We have B&G Zeus 12" (belowdecks where the Furuno chart plotter/radar used to sit), with a 12" repeater screen forward of the compass, and a B&C ZC-1 keypad forward of the furler switches to control the Zeus 12".

In addition, we have a B&G Zeus2 7" sitting to the left of the 12" repeater screen, which can be controlled via touch or from the B&G ZC-1 keypad and three B&G Triton screens below the windshield.  There are numerous devices connected to these devices, including AIS, radar, forward scan, B&G autopilot, etc.

I'd like to pitch in that, as Bill pointed out, legacy devices can be integrated.  So in our case, we have:

Raytheon Type 300 Course Computer
Raytheon  ST7000+ Autopilot display and control keypad
Furuno RD-30 display

The Raytheon Type 300 autopilot is able to drive either the forward rotary Raymarine pilot drive or the aft Raymarine linear drive.  Both drives can also be driven by the B&G autopilot computer.  The Raytheon pilot can steer to wind from the B&G NMEA 2000 windvane.

The Raytheon ST7000+ can display waypoint name, water temperature (C or F), SOG, COG, wind speed, depth in fathoms or feet, etc., all coming from the B&G NMEA 2000 sensors.

The Furuno RD-30 can show all sorts of things coming from the B&GA NMEA 2000 sensors, but we usually have it showing a 24-hr historic of windspeed or a data composite with wind/depth/voltage.  

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)
At anchor, Beaulieu-sur-Mer





Re: Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Hi

 

We have now a Raymarine e7 MFD installed up in the cockpit and an a12 MFD at the chart table these are connected by the Raynet Ethernet – each unit has GPS and we can select which is the GPS master and data master – the cartography is in the a12 unit which shares this with the e7. We have the Raymarine AIS 650 transponder unit that shares the VHF antenna with a switcher and connects to the a12 unit via seatalk(ng) to the a12 and the B&G is connected from its FFD via NMEA 0183 to the a12. I then took NMEA 0183 out from the e7 in the cockpit (which is closer to the Raymarine course computer S3G) and fed this to the RayMarine course computer (the documentation stated that in this configuration we should not use seatalk to connect the e7 to the course computer – I cannot recall the reason).

 

This all plays very nicely and we can get digital B&G readings on the e7 or a12 in the cockpit and chart table and course to wind on the autopilot as well as AIS, we also get GPS from the AIS device, so in total there are 3 separate potential GPS receivers all feeding into the system.

 

Andrew

Ronpische SM472    


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Barry & Robin,

I also upgraded my instruments recently, and went with a B&B Zeus chartplotter.  I am betting most of the solutions we found would apply to your situation.

We fed the NMEA 0183 output from the original B&G Hydra system into the NMEA0183 input of the chartplotter.  That gave us Depth, Wind Data, Heading, and Water Speed into the chartplotter.  The chartplotter takes this data, adds it’s own internally generated GPS information and sends it out again on both NMEA0183 and NMEA2000.  The chartplotter’s NMEA0183 output feeds to the Raymarine autopilots, and to the Furuno Radar. Everybody talks happily to each other.

The NMEA2000 bus has a B&G Triton display (Love it!)  and the Raymarine AIS transponder.

Being an avid fishing boat, we added a real sonar using a sounder module from Simrad and an inside the hull transducer (Airmar P79).  This connects to the chartplotter by an ethernet connection.

Our next major upgrade will likely be a 4G radar for display on the chart plotter, or maybe a more modern Navonics autopilot,  but that will be a while yet.

Gradually, as instruments need replacing or upgrading we will become a NMEA2000 only boat.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Canaveral Florida 
(Heading north with the next weather window!)

On Jun 17, 2016, at 00:00, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I am interested in upgrading my existing chart plotter to a Raymarine ES97 Multifunction Display System. Has anyone else done this?


If Possible, I would be looking at integrating existing B&G instrument system, Autohelm ST7000, Autohelm 300 course computer and if possible, AIRMAR B44-TH Transducer installed in a wetbox.


Any comments/suggestions welcome.


Thank you.


Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn


Tradewinds III SM 171





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

Barry,

Unless you need a fishfinder, you are better off with the E series. I have the E120 at the helm and even though it is large, I find it much easier to see, can use the split screen for the new raymarine radar or many other functions. All my systems are Raymarine. You will like the ability to upgrade the Lighthouse program and works well with my IPad.  I have zero electronic/electrical skills, so had everything done by Pros. No problem, Mon!

Ric

Bali Hai SN 24

Annapolis

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 12:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

 

 

I am interested in upgrading my existing chart plotter to a Raymarine ES97 Multifunction Display System. Has anyone else done this?

 

If Possible, I would be looking at integrating existing B&G instrument system, Autohelm ST7000, Autohelm 300 course computer and if possible, AIRMAR B44-TH Transducer installed in a wetbox.

 

Any comments/suggestions welcome.

 

Thank you.

 

Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM 171

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Colin

We have "steer-to-the-wind" function on the 7001+ control head with a 400G course computer and also a S3G course computer. The 400G was our original equipment on #387, and is now our spare. There is a significant difference in the smoothness of steering between these two, with the S3G being superior.

To get depth on the 7001+, I had to connect NMEA from B&G FFD to the 7001+ control head which will read depth sentences. I actually went through a multiplexer because I needed to send the B&G Data to several places.  Unfortunately, the S3G NMEA "input" will not read depth and distribute it over Raymarine SeaTalk. There is a NMEA "input" connection on the back of the 7001+ control head. I am not sure about the 7000 control head.

Later today I will post in the files section the schematic of the connections on BeBe 387. However, I use a PC for navigation, so it may confuse you, more than help. But, the principles are the same.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 17, 2016 9:35 AM, "Colin Streeter colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Barry & Robyn

We passed through Bundaberg Port last week and noticed your lovely boat there, but unfortunately did not see you around. As it turns out we are currently doing precisely what you are wanting to do, so will let you know how we go. 

We also purchased a 2nd depth transducer (smaller Raymarine P79 - in-hull model - $265 AUD) and are adding that as a 2nd depth sounder 2 meters forward of the existing B&G one (which still works fine) under the forward cabin floor. 

Our B&G sonar speed/log unit has become a little unreliable (works perfectly accurately some days then not on others so we are hoping that it is simply a calibration issue and that we can still fix it since it has been such a tremendous and accurate system till now. Unfortunately B&G no longer make these. We dive on the B&G depth transducer & auto-prop regularly and clean them clean with a sponge but the transducer has always worked accurately even when it has been covered with growth.

We are not prepared to put a second hole in the hull for a paddle wheel speed/depth/temp system as have had them on previous boats and just don't like having to pull it out for cleaning/storing with such a nice dry and clean hull.

Our intentions are to do exactly what Bill has done after seeing a similar set up on another SM2000 which passed through Brisbane recently. That boat used a Brookhouse multiplexer (similar to the one in Bill's link) and we currently have our electronics guy looking for something similar locally. 

We hope to take the NMEA0183 wind, depth, speed info from the B&G HS2000 unit through a multiplexer, and then into our new Raymarine ES97 as well as the ST7000 Autopilot head and our 2nd (2012) Raymarine autopilot unit which we know will certainly be compatible. We do hope this will work on the ST7000 autopilot as that is our favourite one plus as Bill says it has nice large numbers and we want to be able to use the "steer to wind" function that it has but which Amel never connected. Unfortunately we read somewhere that it could possibly only be done from the ST7002 units onwards? 

Get in touch with us directly if you want to compare prices locally. Our email is colin dot cruisingpoint at gmail dot com or mobile is 0411016445.

Cheers

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:57 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Barry & Robin

I have not, but this is precisely what NMEA is for.

I have integrated a lot more than your plan, including depth optionally digitally displayed on the 7001 in 2" high numbers. When navigating in shallow depths, the B&G analog display is not adequate.  I even have waypoints displayed on the 1832 Furuno CRT radar. I think that you will also want to integrate AIS to the chart plotter. You may want to consider an upgrade on that Raymarine course computer to a S3G, and/or a 7001+ control head. If so, there is a great source for refurbished Raymarine components as well as the repair of any Raymarine devices. His name is Dan Gerhardt C250"at"mydurango.net. He may even take a trade-in of your 300 & 7001.

Your goal really depends if the ES97 is capable of receiving and outputting NMEA 0183 or 2000. Unfortunately the newest B&G Triton series is only capable of NMEA 3000. But, assuming that the ES97 will receive all information it needs on the SeaTalk bus, and assuming that that bus information does not require NMEA 3000, you can get what you want by connecting several NMEA devices (GPS, Depth Sounder, B&G FFD) to a NMEA multiplexer ( Like a Noland http://www.nolandeng.com/muxpage.php), then connecting NMEA out to the NMEA in of the Raymarine course computer.

Check if the above is possible. You may have to get some sort of Raymarine NMEA multiplexer. If it is possible, let me know, and I will send you some wiring instructions. I prefer integration schemes which allow all other instruments to operate independently if one fails. A GPS failure usually causes a cascade of failures. I like to use two GPS receivers so that if one fails, the system is still receiving vital information.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 17, 2016 12:00 AM, "seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am interested in upgrading my existing chart plotter to a Raymarine ES97 Multifunction Display System. Has anyone else done this?


If Possible, I would be looking at integrating existing B&G instrument system, Autohelm ST7000, Autohelm 300 course computer and if possible, AIRMAR B44-TH Transducer installed in a wetbox.


Any comments/suggestions welcome.


Thank you.


Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM 171





--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Barry & Robyn

We passed through Bundaberg Port last week and noticed your lovely boat there, but unfortunately did not see you around. As it turns out we are currently doing precisely what you are wanting to do, so will let you know how we go. 

We also purchased a 2nd depth transducer (smaller Raymarine P79 - in-hull model - $265 AUD) and are adding that as a 2nd depth sounder 2 meters forward of the existing B&G one (which still works fine) under the forward cabin floor. 

Our B&G sonar speed/log unit has become a little unreliable (works perfectly accurately some days then not on others so we are hoping that it is simply a calibration issue and that we can still fix it since it has been such a tremendous and accurate system till now. Unfortunately B&G no longer make these. We dive on the B&G depth transducer & auto-prop regularly and clean them clean with a sponge but the transducer has always worked accurately even when it has been covered with growth.

We are not prepared to put a second hole in the hull for a paddle wheel speed/depth/temp system as have had them on previous boats and just don't like having to pull it out for cleaning/storing with such a nice dry and clean hull.

Our intentions are to do exactly what Bill has done after seeing a similar set up on another SM2000 which passed through Brisbane recently. That boat used a Brookhouse multiplexer (similar to the one in Bill's link) and we currently have our electronics guy looking for something similar locally. 

We hope to take the NMEA0183 wind, depth, speed info from the B&G HS2000 unit through a multiplexer, and then into our new Raymarine ES97 as well as the ST7000 Autopilot head and our 2nd (2012) Raymarine autopilot unit which we know will certainly be compatible. We do hope this will work on the ST7000 autopilot as that is our favourite one plus as Bill says it has nice large numbers and we want to be able to use the "steer to wind" function that it has but which Amel never connected. Unfortunately we read somewhere that it could possibly only be done from the ST7002 units onwards? 

Get in touch with us directly if you want to compare prices locally. Our email is colin dot cruisingpoint at gmail dot com or mobile is 0411016445.

Cheers

Colin & Lauren Streeter
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 #332
Brisbane

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:57 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Barry & Robin

I have not, but this is precisely what NMEA is for.

I have integrated a lot more than your plan, including depth optionally digitally displayed on the 7001 in 2" high numbers. When navigating in shallow depths, the B&G analog display is not adequate.  I even have waypoints displayed on the 1832 Furuno CRT radar. I think that you will also want to integrate AIS to the chart plotter. You may want to consider an upgrade on that Raymarine course computer to a S3G, and/or a 7001+ control head. If so, there is a great source for refurbished Raymarine components as well as the repair of any Raymarine devices. His name is Dan Gerhardt C250"at"mydurango.net. He may even take a trade-in of your 300 & 7001.

Your goal really depends if the ES97 is capable of receiving and outputting NMEA 0183 or 2000. Unfortunately the newest B&G Triton series is only capable of NMEA 3000. But, assuming that the ES97 will receive all information it needs on the SeaTalk bus, and assuming that that bus information does not require NMEA 3000, you can get what you want by connecting several NMEA devices (GPS, Depth Sounder, B&G FFD) to a NMEA multiplexer ( Like a Noland http://www.nolandeng.com/muxpage.php), then connecting NMEA out to the NMEA in of the Raymarine course computer.

Check if the above is possible. You may have to get some sort of Raymarine NMEA multiplexer. If it is possible, let me know, and I will send you some wiring instructions. I prefer integration schemes which allow all other instruments to operate independently if one fails. A GPS failure usually causes a cascade of failures. I like to use two GPS receivers so that if one fails, the system is still receiving vital information.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 17, 2016 12:00 AM, "seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am interested in upgrading my existing chart plotter to a Raymarine ES97 Multifunction Display System. Has anyone else done this?


If Possible, I would be looking at integrating existing B&G instrument system, Autohelm ST7000, Autohelm 300 course computer and if possible, AIRMAR B44-TH Transducer installed in a wetbox.


Any comments/suggestions welcome.


Thank you.


Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM 171





--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Barry & Robin

I have not, but this is precisely what NMEA is for.

I have integrated a lot more than your plan, including depth optionally digitally displayed on the 7001 in 2" high numbers. When navigating in shallow depths, the B&G analog display is not adequate.  I even have waypoints displayed on the 1832 Furuno CRT radar. I think that you will also want to integrate AIS to the chart plotter. You may want to consider an upgrade on that Raymarine course computer to a S3G, and/or a 7001+ control head. If so, there is a great source for refurbished Raymarine components as well as the repair of any Raymarine devices. His name is Dan Gerhardt C250"at"mydurango.net. He may even take a trade-in of your 300 & 7001.

Your goal really depends if the ES97 is capable of receiving and outputting NMEA 0183 or 2000. Unfortunately the newest B&G Triton series is only capable of NMEA 3000. But, assuming that the ES97 will receive all information it needs on the SeaTalk bus, and assuming that that bus information does not require NMEA 3000, you can get what you want by connecting several NMEA devices (GPS, Depth Sounder, B&G FFD) to a NMEA multiplexer ( Like a Noland http://www.nolandeng.com/muxpage.php), then connecting NMEA out to the NMEA in of the Raymarine course computer.

Check if the above is possible. You may have to get some sort of Raymarine NMEA multiplexer. If it is possible, let me know, and I will send you some wiring instructions. I prefer integration schemes which allow all other instruments to operate independently if one fails. A GPS failure usually causes a cascade of failures. I like to use two GPS receivers so that if one fails, the system is still receiving vital information.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 17, 2016 12:00 AM, "seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I am interested in upgrading my existing chart plotter to a Raymarine ES97 Multifunction Display System. Has anyone else done this?


If Possible, I would be looking at integrating existing B&G instrument system, Autohelm ST7000, Autohelm 300 course computer and if possible, AIRMAR B44-TH Transducer installed in a wetbox.


Any comments/suggestions welcome.


Thank you.


Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM 171



Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

seagasm@...
 

I am interested in upgrading my existing chart plotter to a Raymarine ES97 Multifunction Display System. Has anyone else done this?


If Possible, I would be looking at integrating existing B&G instrument system, Autohelm ST7000, Autohelm 300 course computer and if possible, AIRMAR B44-TH Transducer installed in a wetbox.


Any comments/suggestions welcome.


Thank you.


Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM 171



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Batteries - What type house batteries to use & what voltage charge from Solar/Wind?

Alan Leslie
 

No, 30 mins wouldn't do anything..but days and hours would.
Good luck
Cheers
alan


Re: Amel surveyor- Florida

jjjk12s@...
 

Doug,

I would say osmosis is not a common problem. Minor osmosis may be present as the boats are old. One factor in causing osmosis is how the lay up was done. If there are more tiny air bubbles in the outer layers of resin (poor workmanship) that can be the areas osmosis starts. Amel are very good at fibreglass, and in that era were well ahead of the fibreglass game compared to most other builders, so you would be hard pressed to find a boat of that age with a lower likelihood of osmosis. 

Obviously a lot more is known since the early 90's about how to minimise osmosis so osmosis on any particular vessel will depend on whether a protective barrier coat was added earlier in it's life.

John Matamu 91, Popeye 1981


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC cable sizing for larger charger

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Ben, 

We just arrived at Port Louis Marina a few hours ago after an overnight from Trinidad. We are right next to Rascal and another British owned SM2000, and nobody else near us. Plenty of room to make it a foursome. 

My first impressions of Port Louis is a very high end Marina, well built and protected, and everything you need very close by. It is a bit expensive, but I think it is very survivable here in the event of a hurricane. I'm also heading back to the USA to make some money this summer, but my wife Liz will be here on Aloha most of the time. She will look after Rascal while Rick and Linda are away, and Im sure she would be happy to do the same for you guys if you end up here. 

Hope we get to meet soon. 

Steve
Aloha SM72

On Jun 15, 2016, at 23:13, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Steve.  I agree.  Sixty Amps is max with my current DC cabling which would be a lot of work to upgrade.  We too are checking Marinas out in St George as Gayle and I may be going back to California for several months work.

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 14, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ben,

We have a Mastervolt 100 amp charger on Aloha, but have a different setup than you. We are hull #72, have a shorter cable run, and I went with 1/0 battery cable, which was a bit of an overkill. I think Bill's advice was excellent, and unless you are willing to up your cable size, you should probably stick to a smaller charger. Mastervolt also makes an 80 amp charger, and maybe the numbers would look a bit better with that. 

We are headed from Trinidad to Grenada tomorrow night, and will be at Port Louis Marina next to Rick and Linda on Rascal. Hope we can get together in Grenada. 

Regards,
Steve and Liz
Aloha SM72
Trinidad for not much longer...

On Jun 14, 2016, at 18:53, Ben Driver/YAHOO joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

It seems 100 amps will challenge my existing 25mm sq wiring.  Looks like I will keep it at 60 amp max 

Ben Driver
La Bella Vita
CG #1120066
SM #347

On Jun 14, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

When I bought a new charger I went with a 60A.  The cables from the charger go through the forward starboard corner of the engine room, then under the raised "step" between the Nav station and passageway to the battery compartment.  In that area under the "step", they are encased in a very hard material and would be very hard to replace.  You would have to look at the specs required for your new charger to see if the existing ones are adequate for the amperage and distance.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Jun 14, 2016, at 10:46 AM, joedoakes66@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I recently replaced my failed Dolhin 30 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 60 Amp charger.  I did not upgrade either th AC or DC wiring.  All seems to work well.  Now I'm considering replacing the 50 Amp charger with a Mastervolt 80 or 100 Amp unit.  I think AC input wire size is OK.   Amel used the same size wire for both 30 and 50 Amp units.  My concern is DC wire size.    Not sure but it appears to be 25mm sq. (3 AWG).  Again Amel used same size for both 30 and 50 Amp chargers.  My question is will this size wire support larger charger?  Or will I need upgrade to 35 or 50mm sq.?  Has anyone done this upgrade without wiring upgrade?


Ben Driver

La Blla Vita

SM 347

Prickly Bay Grenada





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

It is entirely possible that my fear of boat fires is making me irrational. So anybody should feel free to come to an alternative conclusion about risks and benefits without me thinking they are crazy.

I have seen four boats on fire. Two I put out, two I watched burn to the waterline. The idea that I could syphon 200 liters (or 100, or 50) of diesel fuel into an engine room fire with no way to stop it, just strikes me as terrifying.

The remote handle for the bottom valve is there to shut the valve in case of fire. It says so right on the handle. That’s the logic Amel used for the design of that valve. It is good logic. It is smart, it is as safe as it can be. I like that approach. Every other boat I have had had a similar arrangement.

If you accept that logic I don’t see how you can avoid thinking the syphoning return line should have the same arrangement. It would feed fuel to a fire also. Why is fuel that syphons out of the tank less hazardous during a fire than fuel from the bottom?

Enough said.

IF I find that the return line DOES syphon on my boat, I will install a remote handled valve to shut it off. Just like Amel did for the main fuel line. If that is the case, I’ll post pictures and a description of what I did.

On Jun 16, 2016, at 09:25, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello Bill,

But this is a negative, there was more in the bilge than just what was in the line.
Here is what Olivier wrote on Feb 23, 2016
So may be I had more fuel than I thought… May be I had 3/4 and not half.

Olivier’s message:

the purpose of the shut-off valve at the bottom of the tank is not to be able to stop an engine but to prevent fuel from flowing in case of fire in the engine room (this is why there is a remote control).
Yes, with this valve shut off, the engines go on running for 10 minutes (idling) before they stop. And I'm sure the main engine finally stops because I experienced this once in a windy harbor (because I did not check that this valve was open)...not fun at all.
So, if you notice that the fuel keeps on flowing while you're changing the filters, this means the valve is dead and needs replacement (for safety in case of fire...). In fact there is a plastic housing around the chromed ball inside the valve. This plastic probably deteriorates because of time and wear.

I don't think the engines can run thanks to the fuel coming from the return line (otherwise, the design of these engines would be very poor...).

Bill is right, adding more valves is a source of future leaks, or problems (if you forget to open them all while running). AMEL did not do that to keep it simple, as you rarely change a filter on the genset while motoring (or vice versa).
AMEL put a valve on the fuel heater system (option) as this equipment is more fragile, prone to leaking and should not be able to disable the engines (via air intakes).

What Gary experienced with the fuel coming from the return line while changing the fuel filter on the genset, is because of siphoning when the tank is full. The fuel return line enters the tank with a piece of pipe that is around 20cm long, hence the siphon.




--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change
To: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 8:16 AM












A valve there is not for convenience during
repairs, although it would be that.



There shouldn’t be any way to empty the fuel tank into the
bilge without a positive shut off in case of a broken hose
or other disaster. The reason that Amel has a remote
operated main fuel valve (and every other well designed boat
as well) is so you can positively shut off fuel flow to the
engine room in the event of a fire. Having a return line
that syphon feeds fuel from the tank to a fire would totally
defeat the purpose.



I do not doubt that you had fuel come out of the return
line. I would expect it there. My engineering sense is
that you saw the fuel in the line draining back, and not
coming from the tank. Return lines would be full on the
shutdown of the engine(s) and would likely stay that way.
Draining back down to the fuel level in the tank through the
injection pumps and lift pumps would take a very long time.




I have added a project to my endless list… disconnect the
return line from the generator with a full fuel tank and
closed main valve and see what happens. I expect to get
about a liter of fuel out as the lines drain, and then no
more. At least I hope that’s what happens!



On Jun 16, 2016, at 08:38, Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hello Bill (SM#160),
At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention
it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of
felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same
thing so I share my experience.

Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the
“return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel
overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups,
etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the
water in my bilge.

Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a
valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply
disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of
ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.


Wish I could help more…
Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS
cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change

To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM
Alexandre
I am trying to understand what is
going on here… If it really is possible to syphon
fuel

out of a half full tank via the return line, then
putting a

shut off valve on it would become become a very high
priority safety project for me.
But if the tank is built the
way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to
happen

without “magic”, and we are seeing something
else

happening.
You describe a “drop by drop”
leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way
would

you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral, Florida
On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>

wrote:
Good morning Bill (SM
#160),
April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike
Ondra’s post, I reply:
my injectors (engine) were
removed to be check/rebuilt
Somehow fuel was still coming
drop by drop in the bilge compartment.
It did not make any
sense to me as the valve was off.
I realize the fuel
was coming from the “return” valve (which still
doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction
or

syphon?)
So I
disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank,
the

leak stop.
My tank was may be 1/2 full.
It happened to other people as
well.
One of these things hard to
understand but that you have to keep in mind.
Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San
Juan, Puerto Rico
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 6/15/16,
Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Subject: Re: Re:
[Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart
after

fuel filter and oil change
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday,
June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM
I am puzzled…
How can the fuel
“syphon”
back
from the tank through the return line? Amel’s
drawing of the tank
does not show a dip tube (and there
certainly shouldn’t be one!) on
the return fitting on the
top of the tank.
It seems that if the
only way
this
could happen is if the tank is filled so full the
level

is up into the fill
line with NO air in the tank at
all.
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort
Canaveral, Florida
On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
wrote:
Dominique:
I just replaced my
electric
priming
pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not have
access at the time
to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did
this. I ended up distorting the
"B-nut" on the
small copper fuel line that goes
from the fuel pump to the
fuel filter adapter and could NOT
get a proper seal upon
replacing this line (a continuous
small seep of fuel that
was really annoying and messy).
I had to order a
replacement line (not that
expensive) and buy a proper set
of flare nut wrenches to
adequately get a seal. I wish I
could remember the size of the
flare nut but it was SAE (not
metric) sized. Make sure the
fuel tank is low on fuel
(think 250 liter will work)
otherwise a continuous stream of
fuel will flow by syphon from the
fuel tank fuel return line
while you make this plumbing
change. I managed to turn
this otherwise simple replacement
into a major project based
on A) not using the proper tools
to loosen and re-install
the B-nut of the fuel line, B)
not have lowered the fuel in
the tank (mine was full at the
time of my work).
Good luck. The pump was
about
$65 as I
recall (not that expensive in the scheme of things)
and the fuel line
was about $8
Sincerely,
Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM
#335 Puerto
Rico
#yiv2579808633 #yiv2579808633
--
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px

0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad {
padding:0 0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad p {
margin:0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ygrp-lc
#yiv2579808633hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ygrp-lc
.yiv2579808633ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0
0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px
0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633activity span {
font-weight:700;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633activity span
.yiv2579808633underline {
text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px

0;width:400px;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0
4px;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}
#yiv2579808633 .yiv2579808633bold
a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
dd.yiv2579808633last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
#yiv2579808633
dd.yiv2579808633last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv2579808633
dd.yiv2579808633last p
span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633attach-table {
width:400px;}
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633file-title a, #yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633file-title
a:active, #yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633file-title
a:hover, #yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633file-title
a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a,
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:active,
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:hover,
#yiv2579808633
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
div#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a
span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633green {
color:#628c2a;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}
#yiv2579808633 o {
font-size:0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633reco-category {
font-size:77%;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}
#yiv2579808633
.yiv2579808633replbq {
margin:4px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv2579808633 input,
#yiv2579808633 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2579808633
code {
font:115% monospace;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2579808633logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-msg
p#yiv2579808633attach-count span
{
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-reco
#yiv2579808633reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor #yiv2579808633ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor #yiv2579808633ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px
0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor #yiv2579808633ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv2579808633ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv2579808633
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892 --
#yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px

0;padding:0 10px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892hd
{

color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px

0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892ads
{

margin-bottom:10px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
{

padding:0 0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
p {

margin:0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
a {

color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ygrp-lc #yiv8147518892hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ygrp-lc .yiv8147518892ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span {
font-weight:700;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span:first-child
{

text-transform:uppercase;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span
.yiv8147518892underline {
text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px

0;width:400px;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold a {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
#yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p
span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table div div a
{

text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table {
width:400px;}
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892file-title a,
#yiv8147518892

div.yiv8147518892file-title a:active, #yiv8147518892
div.yiv8147518892file-title a:hover, #yiv8147518892
div.yiv8147518892file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a,
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a:active,

#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a:hover,
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a:visited
{

text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 div#yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts
{

font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892green {
color:#628c2a;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}
#yiv8147518892 o {
font-size:0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-category {
font-size:77%;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892replbq {
margin:4px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-actbar div
a:first-child {

margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv8147518892 input, #yiv8147518892 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg pre,
#yiv8147518892

code {
font:115% monospace;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8147518892logo {

padding-bottom:10px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg
p#yiv8147518892attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco
#yiv8147518892reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov

li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov

li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov

ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-vital ul
li:last-child {

border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv8147518892
--zdrbemG7jDjPmN0qMjWyt2LsOBXHvF8st-UXkle
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML
4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

<html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color:
#fff;">

<span
style="display:none"> </span>

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg"
style="position:relative;">

<div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index:
1;">

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text" >
<p>Hello Bill (SM#160), <br>
<br>
At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention
it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of
felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same
thing so I share my experience. <br>

<br>
Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the
“return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel
overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups,
etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the
water in my bilge. <br>

<br>
Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a
valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply
disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of
ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.
<br>

<br>
Wish I could help more… <br>
<br>
Sincerely, Alexandre<br>
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>

On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:<br>

<br>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS
cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change<br>

To: amelyachtowners@...<br>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Alexandre<br>
I am trying to understand what is<br>
going on here… If it really is possible to syphon
fuel<br>

out of a half full tank via the return line, then
putting a<br>

shut off valve on it would become become a very
high<br>

priority safety project for me.<br>
But if the tank is built the<br>
way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to
happen<br>

without “magic”, and we are seeing something
else<br>

happening.<br>
You describe a “drop by drop”<br>
leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way
would<br>

you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?<br>
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral,
Florida<br>

On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,<br>
Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@...<br>

[amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...><br>

wrote:<br>
Good morning Bill (SM<br>
#160), <br>
<br>
April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike<br>
Ondra’s post, I reply: <br>
<br>
my injectors (engine) were<br>
removed to be check/rebuilt<br>
Somehow fuel was still coming<br>
drop by drop in the bilge compartment. <br>
It did not make any<br>
sense to me as the valve was off. <br>
I realize the fuel<br>
was coming from the “return” valve (which
still<br>

doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction
or<br>

syphon?)<br>
So I<br>
disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank,
the<br>

leak stop. <br>
<br>
My tank was may be 1/2 full. <br>
<br>
It happened to other people as<br>
well. <br>
<br>
One of these things hard to<br>
understand but that you have to keep in mind.
<br>

<br>
Sincerely, Alexandre<br>
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>
Club Nautico de San<br>
Juan, Puerto Rico<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>

On Wed, 6/15/16,<br>
Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners]<br>

<amelyachtowners@...><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: Re:<br>
[Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart
after<br>

fuel filter and oil change<br>
To: amelyachtowners@...<br>
Date: Wednesday,<br>
June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am puzzled… <br>
How can the fuel<br>
“syphon”<br>
back<br>
from the tank through the return line?
Amel’s<br>

drawing of the tank<br>
does not show a dip tube (and there<br>
certainly shouldn’t be one!) on<br>
the return fitting on the<br>
top of the tank. <br>
It seems that if the<br>
only way<br>
this<br>
could happen is if the tank is filled so full the
level<br>

is up into the fill<br>
line with NO air in the tank at<br>
all.<br>
Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort<br>
Canaveral, Florida<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,<br>
amelliahona
<no_reply@...><br>

wrote:<br>
Dominique:<br>
I just replaced my<br>
electric<br>
priming<br>
pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not
have<br>

access at the time<br>
to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did<br>
this. I ended up distorting the<br>
"B-nut" on the<br>
small copper fuel line that goes<br>
from the fuel pump to the<br>
fuel filter adapter and could NOT<br>
get a proper seal upon<br>
replacing this line (a continuous<br>
small seep of fuel that<br>
was really annoying and messy).<br>
I had to order a<br>
replacement line (not that<br>
expensive) and buy a proper set<br>
of flare nut wrenches to<br>
adequately get a seal. I wish I<br>
could remember the size of the<br>
flare nut but it was SAE (not<br>
metric) sized. Make sure the<br>
fuel tank is low on fuel<br>
(think 250 liter will work)<br>
otherwise a continuous stream of<br>
fuel will flow by syphon from the<br>
fuel tank fuel return line<br>
while you make this plumbing<br>
change. I managed to turn<br>
this otherwise simple replacement<br>
into a major project based<br>
on A) not using the proper tools<br>
to loosen and re-install<br>
the B-nut of the fuel line, B)<br>
not have lowered the fuel in<br>
the tank (mine was full at the<br>
time of my work).<br>
<br>
Good luck. The pump was<br>
about<br>
$65 as I<br>
recall (not that expensive in the scheme of
things)<br>

and the fuel line<br>
was about $8<br>
Sincerely, <br>
Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM<br>
#335 Puerto<br>
Rico <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633 #yiv2579808633<br>
--<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp {<br>
border:1px solid<br>
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px<br>
0;padding:0 10px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp hr {<br>
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633hd {<br>
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px<br>

0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633ads {<br>
margin-bottom:10px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad {<br>
padding:0 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad p
{<br>

margin:0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad a
{<br>

color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-lc {<br>
font-family:Arial;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-lc<br>
#yiv2579808633hd {<br>
margin:10px<br>
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-lc<br>
.yiv2579808633ad {<br>
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0<br>
0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633actions {<br>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px<br>

0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633activity {<br>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633activity span {<br>
font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633activity span:first-child {<br>
text-transform:uppercase;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633activity span a {<br>
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633activity span span {<br>
color:#ff7900;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633activity span<br>
.yiv2579808633underline {<br>
text-decoration:underline;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633attach {<br>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px<br>

0;width:400px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633attach div a {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633attach img {<br>
border:none;padding-right:5px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633attach label {<br>
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633attach label a {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633 blockquote {<br>
margin:0 0 0<br>
4px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633bold {<br>
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633 .yiv2579808633bold<br>
a {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
dd.yiv2579808633last p a {<br>
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
dd.yiv2579808633last p span {<br>
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
dd.yiv2579808633last p<br>
span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {<br>
margin-right:0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633attach-table div div a {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633attach-table {<br>
width:400px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633file-title a,
#yiv2579808633<br>

div.yiv2579808633file-title<br>
a:active, #yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633file-title<br>
a:hover, #yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633file-title<br>
a:visited {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a,<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:active,<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:hover,<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:visited {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
div#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a<br>
span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {<br>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633green {<br>
color:#628c2a;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633MsoNormal {<br>
margin:0 0 0 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633 o {<br>
font-size:0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633photos div {<br>
float:left;width:72px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633photos div div {<br>
border:1px solid<br>
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633photos div label {<br>
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}<br>

<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633reco-category {<br>
font-size:77%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633reco-desc {<br>
font-size:77%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
.yiv2579808633replbq {<br>
margin:4px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
{<br>

margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg {<br>
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,<br>
helvetica, clean,<br>
sans-serif;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg table {<br>
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg select,<br>
#yiv2579808633 input,<br>
#yiv2579808633 textarea {<br>
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean,<br>
sans-serif;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg pre,
#yiv2579808633<br>

code {<br>
font:115% monospace;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg * {<br>
line-height:1.22em;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2579808633logo
{<br>

padding-bottom:10px;}<br>
<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a {<br>
font-family:Verdana;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-msg<br>
p#yiv2579808633attach-count span<br>
{<br>
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-reco<br>
#yiv2579808633reco-head {<br>
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-reco {<br>
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ov<br>

li a {<br>
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ov<br>

li {<br>
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px<br>

0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ov<br>

ul {<br>
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-text {<br>
font-family:Georgia;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-text p {<br>
margin:0 0 1em 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-text tt {<br>
font-size:120%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv2579808633<br>
#yiv2579808633ygrp-vital ul li:last-child
{<br>

border-right:none !important;<br>
}<br>
#yiv2579808633 <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892 --<br>
#yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp {<br>
border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px<br>

0;padding:0 10px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp hr {<br>
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892hd
{<br>

color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px<br>

0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892ads
{<br>

margin-bottom:10px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
{<br>

padding:0 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
p {<br>

margin:0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
a {<br>

color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor<br>
#yiv8147518892ygrp-lc {<br>
font-family:Arial;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor<br>
#yiv8147518892ygrp-lc #yiv8147518892hd {<br>
margin:10px<br>
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor<br>
#yiv8147518892ygrp-lc .yiv8147518892ad {<br>
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892actions {<br>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px
0;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity {<br>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span
{<br>

font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span:first-child
{<br>

text-transform:uppercase;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span a
{<br>

color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span span
{<br>

color:#ff7900;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span<br>
.yiv8147518892underline {<br>
text-decoration:underline;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach {<br>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px<br>

0;width:400px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach div a
{<br>

text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach img {<br>
border:none;padding-right:5px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label
{<br>

display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label a
{<br>

text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 blockquote {<br>
margin:0 0 0 4px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold {<br>
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold a {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p a {<br>
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p span
{<br>

margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p<br>
span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts {<br>
margin-right:0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table div div a
{<br>

text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table
{<br>

width:400px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892file-title a,
#yiv8147518892<br>

div.yiv8147518892file-title a:active,
#yiv8147518892<br>

div.yiv8147518892file-title a:hover,
#yiv8147518892<br>

div.yiv8147518892file-title a:visited {<br>
text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a,<br>

#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a:active,<br>

#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a:hover,<br>

#yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a:visited
{<br>

text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 div#yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg<br>
#yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts
{<br>

font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892green {<br>
color:#628c2a;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892MsoNormal {<br>
margin:0 0 0 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 o {<br>
font-size:0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div {<br>
float:left;width:72px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div div
{<br>

border:1px solid<br>
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div label
{<br>

color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-category
{<br>

font-size:77%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-desc {<br>
font-size:77%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892replbq {<br>
margin:4px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-actbar div
a:first-child {<br>

margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg {<br>
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,
clean,<br>

sans-serif;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg table
{<br>

font-size:inherit;font:100%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
select,<br>

#yiv8147518892 input, #yiv8147518892 textarea
{<br>

font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg pre,
#yiv8147518892<br>

code {<br>
font:115% monospace;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg *
{<br>

line-height:1.22em;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8147518892logo {<br>

padding-bottom:10px;}<br>
<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a
{<br>

font-family:Verdana;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg<br>
p#yiv8147518892attach-count span {<br>
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco<br>
#yiv8147518892reco-head {<br>
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco {<br>
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov<br>

li a {<br>
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov<br>

li {<br>
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px
0;}<br>

<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov<br>

ul {<br>
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text {<br>
font-family:Georgia;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text p {<br>
margin:0 0 1em 0;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text tt
{<br>

font-size:120%;}<br>
<br>
#yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-vital ul
li:last-child {<br>

border-right:none !important;<br>
}<br>
#yiv8147518892 <br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<div style="color: #fff; height:
0;"></div>

<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 10px 0;
padding: 0 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr {
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd {
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: 700;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active,
div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {

text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active,
div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {

text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
--zdrbemG7jDjPmN0qMjWyt2LsOBXHvF8st-UXkle--












#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547 --
#yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp #yiv4307191547hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp #yiv4307191547ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp .yiv4307191547ad {
padding:0 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp .yiv4307191547ad p {
margin:0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp .yiv4307191547ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor
#yiv4307191547ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor
#yiv4307191547ygrp-lc #yiv4307191547hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor
#yiv4307191547ygrp-lc .yiv4307191547ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span {
font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span
.yiv4307191547underline {
text-decoration:underline;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547bold a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 dd.yiv4307191547last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 dd.yiv4307191547last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 dd.yiv4307191547last p
span.yiv4307191547yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547attach-table {
width:400px;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547file-title a, #yiv4307191547
div.yiv4307191547file-title a:active, #yiv4307191547
div.yiv4307191547file-title a:hover, #yiv4307191547
div.yiv4307191547file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a,
#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a:active,
#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a:hover,
#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 div#yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv4307191547ygrp-msg p a


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Bill,

But this is a negative, there was more in the bilge than just what was in the line.
Here is what Olivier wrote on Feb 23, 2016
So may be I had more fuel than I thought… May be I had 3/4 and not half.

Olivier’s message:

the purpose of the shut-off valve at the bottom of the tank is not to be able to stop an engine but to prevent fuel from flowing in case of fire in the engine room (this is why there is a remote control).
Yes, with this valve shut off, the engines go on running for 10 minutes (idling) before they stop. And I'm sure the main engine finally stops because I experienced this once in a windy harbor (because I did not check that this valve was open)...not fun at all.
So, if you notice that the fuel keeps on flowing while you're changing the filters, this means the valve is dead and needs replacement (for safety in case of fire...). In fact there is a plastic housing around the chromed ball inside the valve. This plastic probably deteriorates because of time and wear.

I don't think the engines can run thanks to the fuel coming from the return line (otherwise, the design of these engines would be very poor...).

Bill is right, adding more valves is a source of future leaks, or problems (if you forget to open them all while running). AMEL did not do that to keep it simple, as you rarely change a filter on the genset while motoring (or vice versa).
AMEL put a valve on the fuel heater system (option) as this equipment is more fragile, prone to leaking and should not be able to disable the engines (via air intakes).

What Gary experienced with the fuel coming from the return line while changing the fuel filter on the genset, is because of siphoning when the tank is full. The fuel return line enters the tank with a piece of pipe that is around 20cm long, hence the siphon.




--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change
To: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 8:16 AM


 









A valve there is not for convenience during
repairs, although it would be that.



There shouldn’t be any way to empty the fuel tank into the
bilge without a positive shut off in case of a broken hose
or other disaster. The reason that Amel has a remote
operated main fuel valve (and every other well designed boat
as well) is so you can positively shut off fuel flow to the
engine room in the event of a fire. Having a return line
that syphon feeds fuel from the tank to a fire would totally
defeat the purpose.



I do not doubt that you had fuel come out of the return
line. I would expect it there. My engineering sense is
that you saw the fuel in the line draining back, and not
coming from the tank. Return lines would be full on the
shutdown of the engine(s) and would likely stay that way.
Draining back down to the fuel level in the tank through the
injection pumps and lift pumps would take a very long time.




I have added a project to my endless list… disconnect the
return line from the generator with a full fuel tank and
closed main valve and see what happens. I expect to get
about a liter of fuel out as the lines drain, and then no
more. At least I hope that’s what happens!



> On Jun 16, 2016, at 08:38, Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

>

> Hello Bill (SM#160),

>

> At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention
it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of
felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same
thing so I share my experience.

>

> Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the
“return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel
overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups,
etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the
water in my bilge.

>

> Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a
valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply
disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of
ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.


>

> Wish I could help more…

>

> Sincerely, Alexandre

> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------

> On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

>

> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS
cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change

> To: amelyachtowners@...

> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Alexandre

> I am trying to understand what is

> going on here… If it really is possible to syphon
fuel

> out of a half full tank via the return line, then
putting a

> shut off valve on it would become become a very high

> priority safety project for me.

> But if the tank is built the

> way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to
happen

> without “magic”, and we are seeing something
else

> happening.

> You describe a “drop by drop”

> leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way
would

> you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?

> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral, Florida

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,

> Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

> [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>

> wrote:

> Good morning Bill (SM

> #160),

>

> April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike

> Ondra’s post, I reply:

>

> my injectors (engine) were

> removed to be check/rebuilt

> Somehow fuel was still coming

> drop by drop in the bilge compartment.

> It did not make any

> sense to me as the valve was off.

> I realize the fuel

> was coming from the “return” valve (which still

> doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction
or

> syphon?)

> So I

> disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank,
the

> leak stop.

>

> My tank was may be 1/2 full.

>

> It happened to other people as

> well.

>

> One of these things hard to

> understand but that you have to keep in mind.

>

> Sincerely, Alexandre

> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

> Club Nautico de San

> Juan, Puerto Rico

>

> --------------------------------------------

> On Wed, 6/15/16,

> Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]

> <amelyachtowners@...>

> wrote:

>

> Subject: Re: Re:

> [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart
after

> fuel filter and oil change

> To: amelyachtowners@...

> Date: Wednesday,

> June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I am puzzled…

> How can the fuel

> “syphon”

> back

> from the tank through the return line? Amel’s

> drawing of the tank

> does not show a dip tube (and there

> certainly shouldn’t be one!) on

> the return fitting on the

> top of the tank.

> It seems that if the

> only way

> this

> could happen is if the tank is filled so full the
level

> is up into the fill

> line with NO air in the tank at

> all.

> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort

> Canaveral, Florida

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,

> amelliahona <no_reply@...>

> wrote:

> Dominique:

> I just replaced my

> electric

> priming

> pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not have

> access at the time

> to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did

> this. I ended up distorting the

> "B-nut" on the

> small copper fuel line that goes

> from the fuel pump to the

> fuel filter adapter and could NOT

> get a proper seal upon

> replacing this line (a continuous

> small seep of fuel that

> was really annoying and messy).

> I had to order a

> replacement line (not that

> expensive) and buy a proper set

> of flare nut wrenches to

> adequately get a seal. I wish I

> could remember the size of the

> flare nut but it was SAE (not

> metric) sized. Make sure the

> fuel tank is low on fuel

> (think 250 liter will work)

> otherwise a continuous stream of

> fuel will flow by syphon from the

> fuel tank fuel return line

> while you make this plumbing

> change. I managed to turn

> this otherwise simple replacement

> into a major project based

> on A) not using the proper tools

> to loosen and re-install

> the B-nut of the fuel line, B)

> not have lowered the fuel in

> the tank (mine was full at the

> time of my work).

>

> Good luck. The pump was

> about

> $65 as I

> recall (not that expensive in the scheme of things)

> and the fuel line

> was about $8

> Sincerely,

> Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM

> #335 Puerto

> Rico

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> #yiv2579808633 #yiv2579808633

> --

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp {

> border:1px solid

> #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px

> 0;padding:0 10px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp hr {

> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633hd {

>
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px

> 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633ads {

> margin-bottom:10px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad {

> padding:0 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad p {

> margin:0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad a {

> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-lc {

> font-family:Arial;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-lc

> #yiv2579808633hd {

> margin:10px

> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-lc

> .yiv2579808633ad {

> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0

> 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633actions {

> font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px

> 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633activity {

>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633activity span {

> font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633activity span:first-child {

> text-transform:uppercase;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633activity span a {

> color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633activity span span {

> color:#ff7900;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633activity span

> .yiv2579808633underline {

> text-decoration:underline;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633attach {

>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px

> 0;width:400px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633attach div a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633attach img {

> border:none;padding-right:5px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633attach label {

> display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633attach label a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633 blockquote {

> margin:0 0 0

> 4px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633bold {

> font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv2579808633 .yiv2579808633bold

> a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> dd.yiv2579808633last p a {

> font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> dd.yiv2579808633last p span {

>
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> dd.yiv2579808633last p

> span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {

> margin-right:0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633attach-table div div a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633attach-table {

> width:400px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633file-title a, #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633file-title

> a:active, #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633file-title

> a:hover, #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633file-title

> a:visited {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a,

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:active,

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:hover,

> #yiv2579808633

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:visited {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> div#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a

> span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {

>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633green {

> color:#628c2a;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633MsoNormal {

> margin:0 0 0 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633 o {

> font-size:0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633photos div {

> float:left;width:72px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633photos div div {

> border:1px solid

> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633photos div label {

>
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633reco-category {

> font-size:77%;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633reco-desc {

> font-size:77%;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> .yiv2579808633replbq {

> margin:4px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {

> margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg {

> font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,

> helvetica, clean,

> sans-serif;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg table {

> font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg select,

> #yiv2579808633 input,

> #yiv2579808633 textarea {

> font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean,

> sans-serif;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2579808633

> code {

> font:115% monospace;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg * {

> line-height:1.22em;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2579808633logo {

> padding-bottom:10px;}

>

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a {

> font-family:Verdana;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-msg

> p#yiv2579808633attach-count span

> {

> color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-reco

> #yiv2579808633reco-head {

> color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-reco {

> margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor #yiv2579808633ov

> li a {

> font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor #yiv2579808633ov

> li {

> font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px

> 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor #yiv2579808633ov

> ul {

> margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-text {

> font-family:Georgia;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-text p {

> margin:0 0 1em 0;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-text tt {

> font-size:120%;}

>

> #yiv2579808633

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {

> border-right:none !important;

> }

> #yiv2579808633

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892 --

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp {

> border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px

> 0;padding:0 10px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp hr {

> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892hd
{

>
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px

> 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892ads
{

> margin-bottom:10px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
{

> padding:0 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
p {

> margin:0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
a {

> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-lc {

> font-family:Arial;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-lc #yiv8147518892hd {

> margin:10px

> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-lc .yiv8147518892ad {

> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892actions {

> font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity {

>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span {

> font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span:first-child
{

> text-transform:uppercase;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span a {

> color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span span {

> color:#ff7900;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span

> .yiv8147518892underline {

> text-decoration:underline;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach {

>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px

> 0;width:400px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach div a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach img {

> border:none;padding-right:5px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label {

> display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 blockquote {

> margin:0 0 0 4px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold {

> font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold a {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p a {

> font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p span {

>
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p

> span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts {

> margin-right:0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table div div a
{

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table {

> width:400px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892file-title a,
#yiv8147518892

> div.yiv8147518892file-title a:active, #yiv8147518892

> div.yiv8147518892file-title a:hover, #yiv8147518892

> div.yiv8147518892file-title a:visited {

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a,

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a:active,

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a:hover,

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a:visited
{

> text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 div#yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts
{

>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892green {

> color:#628c2a;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892MsoNormal {

> margin:0 0 0 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 o {

> font-size:0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div {

> float:left;width:72px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div div {

> border:1px solid

> #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div label {

>
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-category {

> font-size:77%;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-desc {

> font-size:77%;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892replbq {

> margin:4px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-actbar div
a:first-child {

> margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg {

> font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,

> sans-serif;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg table {

> font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg select,

> #yiv8147518892 input, #yiv8147518892 textarea {

> font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg pre,
#yiv8147518892

> code {

> font:115% monospace;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg * {

> line-height:1.22em;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8147518892logo {

> padding-bottom:10px;}

>

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a {

> font-family:Verdana;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg

> p#yiv8147518892attach-count span {

> color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco

> #yiv8147518892reco-head {

> color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco {

> margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov

> li a {

> font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov

> li {

> font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov

> ul {

> margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text {

> font-family:Georgia;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text p {

> margin:0 0 1em 0;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text tt {

> font-size:120%;}

>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-vital ul
li:last-child {

> border-right:none !important;

> }

> #yiv8147518892

>

> --zdrbemG7jDjPmN0qMjWyt2LsOBXHvF8st-UXkle

> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

>

>

>

> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML
4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

> <html>

> <head>

> </head>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <body style="background-color:
#fff;">

> <span
style="display:none"> </span>

>

> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->

> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg"
style="position:relative;">

> <div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index:
1;">

> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->

>

> <div id="ygrp-text" >

>

>

> <p>Hello Bill (SM#160), <br>

> <br>

> At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention
it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of
felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same
thing so I share my experience. <br>

> <br>

> Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the
“return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel
overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups,
etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the
water in my bilge. <br>

> <br>

> Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a
valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply
disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of
ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.
<br>

> <br>

> Wish I could help more… <br>

> <br>

> Sincerely, Alexandre<br>

> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>

> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico<br>

> <br>

>
--------------------------------------------<br>

> On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:<br>

> <br>

> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS
cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change<br>

> To: amelyachtowners@...<br>

> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM<br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> Alexandre<br>

> I am trying to understand what is<br>

> going on here… If it really is possible to syphon
fuel<br>

> out of a half full tank via the return line, then
putting a<br>

> shut off valve on it would become become a very
high<br>

> priority safety project for me.<br>

> But if the tank is built the<br>

> way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to
happen<br>

> without “magic”, and we are seeing something
else<br>

> happening.<br>

> You describe a “drop by drop”<br>

> leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way
would<br>

> you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?<br>

> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral,
Florida<br>

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,<br>

> Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@...<br>

> [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...><br>

> wrote:<br>

> Good morning Bill (SM<br>

> #160), <br>

> <br>

> April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike<br>

> Ondra’s post, I reply: <br>

> <br>

> my injectors (engine) were<br>

> removed to be check/rebuilt<br>

> Somehow fuel was still coming<br>

> drop by drop in the bilge compartment. <br>

> It did not make any<br>

> sense to me as the valve was off. <br>

> I realize the fuel<br>

> was coming from the “return” valve (which
still<br>

> doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction
or<br>

> syphon?)<br>

> So I<br>

> disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank,
the<br>

> leak stop. <br>

> <br>

> My tank was may be 1/2 full. <br>

> <br>

> It happened to other people as<br>

> well. <br>

> <br>

> One of these things hard to<br>

> understand but that you have to keep in mind.
<br>

> <br>

> Sincerely, Alexandre<br>

> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>

> Club Nautico de San<br>

> Juan, Puerto Rico<br>

> <br>

>
--------------------------------------------<br>

> On Wed, 6/15/16,<br>

> Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners]<br>

> <amelyachtowners@...><br>

> wrote:<br>

> <br>

> Subject: Re: Re:<br>

> [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart
after<br>

> fuel filter and oil change<br>

> To: amelyachtowners@...<br>

> Date: Wednesday,<br>

> June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM<br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> I am puzzled… <br>

> How can the fuel<br>

> “syphon”<br>

> back<br>

> from the tank through the return line?
Amel’s<br>

> drawing of the tank<br>

> does not show a dip tube (and there<br>

> certainly shouldn’t be one!) on<br>

> the return fitting on the<br>

> top of the tank. <br>

> It seems that if the<br>

> only way<br>

> this<br>

> could happen is if the tank is filled so full the
level<br>

> is up into the fill<br>

> line with NO air in the tank at<br>

> all.<br>

> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort<br>

> Canaveral, Florida<br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,<br>

> amelliahona
<no_reply@...><br>

> wrote:<br>

> Dominique:<br>

> I just replaced my<br>

> electric<br>

> priming<br>

> pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not
have<br>

> access at the time<br>

> to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did<br>

> this. I ended up distorting the<br>

> "B-nut" on the<br>

> small copper fuel line that goes<br>

> from the fuel pump to the<br>

> fuel filter adapter and could NOT<br>

> get a proper seal upon<br>

> replacing this line (a continuous<br>

> small seep of fuel that<br>

> was really annoying and messy).<br>

> I had to order a<br>

> replacement line (not that<br>

> expensive) and buy a proper set<br>

> of flare nut wrenches to<br>

> adequately get a seal. I wish I<br>

> could remember the size of the<br>

> flare nut but it was SAE (not<br>

> metric) sized. Make sure the<br>

> fuel tank is low on fuel<br>

> (think 250 liter will work)<br>

> otherwise a continuous stream of<br>

> fuel will flow by syphon from the<br>

> fuel tank fuel return line<br>

> while you make this plumbing<br>

> change. I managed to turn<br>

> this otherwise simple replacement<br>

> into a major project based<br>

> on A) not using the proper tools<br>

> to loosen and re-install<br>

> the B-nut of the fuel line, B)<br>

> not have lowered the fuel in<br>

> the tank (mine was full at the<br>

> time of my work).<br>

> <br>

> Good luck. The pump was<br>

> about<br>

> $65 as I<br>

> recall (not that expensive in the scheme of
things)<br>

> and the fuel line<br>

> was about $8<br>

> Sincerely, <br>

> Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM<br>

> #335 Puerto<br>

> Rico <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633 #yiv2579808633<br>

> --<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp {<br>

> border:1px solid<br>

> #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px<br>

> 0;padding:0 10px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp hr {<br>

> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633hd {<br>

>
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px<br>

> 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp #yiv2579808633ads {<br>

> margin-bottom:10px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad {<br>

> padding:0 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad p
{<br>

> margin:0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mkp .yiv2579808633ad a
{<br>

> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}<br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-lc {<br>

> font-family:Arial;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-lc<br>

> #yiv2579808633hd {<br>

> margin:10px<br>

>
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-lc<br>

> .yiv2579808633ad {<br>

> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0<br>

> 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633actions {<br>

>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px<br>

> 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633activity {<br>

>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633activity span {<br>

> font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633activity span:first-child {<br>

> text-transform:uppercase;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633activity span a {<br>

> color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633activity span span {<br>

> color:#ff7900;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633activity span<br>

> .yiv2579808633underline {<br>

> text-decoration:underline;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633attach {<br>

>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px<br>

> 0;width:400px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633attach div a {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633attach img {<br>

> border:none;padding-right:5px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633attach label {<br>

> display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633attach label a {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633 blockquote {<br>

> margin:0 0 0<br>

> 4px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633bold {<br>

>
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633 .yiv2579808633bold<br>

> a {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> dd.yiv2579808633last p a {<br>

> font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> dd.yiv2579808633last p span {<br>

>
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> dd.yiv2579808633last p<br>

> span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {<br>

> margin-right:0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633attach-table div div a {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633attach-table {<br>

> width:400px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633file-title a,
#yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633file-title<br>

> a:active, #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633file-title<br>

> a:hover, #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633file-title<br>

> a:visited {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a,<br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:active,<br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:hover,<br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div.yiv2579808633photo-title a:visited {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> div#yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a<br>

> span.yiv2579808633yshortcuts {<br>

>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633green {<br>

> color:#628c2a;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633MsoNormal {<br>

> margin:0 0 0 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633 o {<br>

> font-size:0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633photos div {<br>

> float:left;width:72px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633photos div div {<br>

> border:1px solid<br>

>
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633photos div label {<br>

>
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633reco-category {<br>

> font-size:77%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633reco-desc {<br>

> font-size:77%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> .yiv2579808633replbq {<br>

> margin:4px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
{<br>

> margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg {<br>

> font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,<br>

> helvetica, clean,<br>

> sans-serif;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg table {<br>

> font-size:inherit;font:100%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg select,<br>

> #yiv2579808633 input,<br>

> #yiv2579808633 textarea {<br>

> font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean,<br>

> sans-serif;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg pre,
#yiv2579808633<br>

> code {<br>

> font:115% monospace;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg * {<br>

> line-height:1.22em;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2579808633logo
{<br>

> padding-bottom:10px;}<br>

> <br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-msg p a {<br>

> font-family:Verdana;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-msg<br>

> p#yiv2579808633attach-count span<br>

> {<br>

> color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-reco<br>

> #yiv2579808633reco-head {<br>

> color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-reco {<br>

> margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ov<br>

> li a {<br>

> font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ov<br>

> li {<br>

>
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px<br>

> 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-sponsor
#yiv2579808633ov<br>

> ul {<br>

> margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-text {<br>

> font-family:Georgia;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-text p {<br>

> margin:0 0 1em 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-text tt {<br>

> font-size:120%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv2579808633<br>

> #yiv2579808633ygrp-vital ul li:last-child
{<br>

> border-right:none !important;<br>

> }<br>

> #yiv2579808633 <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892 --<br>

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp {<br>

> border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px<br>

> 0;padding:0 10px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp hr {<br>

> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892hd
{<br>

>
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px<br>

> 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp #yiv8147518892ads
{<br>

> margin-bottom:10px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
{<br>

> padding:0 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
p {<br>

> margin:0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mkp .yiv8147518892ad
a {<br>

> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}<br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor<br>

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-lc {<br>

> font-family:Arial;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor<br>

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-lc #yiv8147518892hd {<br>

> margin:10px<br>

>
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor<br>

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-lc .yiv8147518892ad {<br>

> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892actions {<br>

> font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px
0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity {<br>

>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span
{<br>

> font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span:first-child
{<br>

> text-transform:uppercase;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span a
{<br>

> color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span span
{<br>

> color:#ff7900;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892activity span<br>

> .yiv8147518892underline {<br>

> text-decoration:underline;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach {<br>

>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px<br>

> 0;width:400px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach div a
{<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach img {<br>

> border:none;padding-right:5px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label
{<br>

> display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892attach label a
{<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 blockquote {<br>

> margin:0 0 0 4px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold {<br>

>
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892bold a {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p a {<br>

> font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p span
{<br>

>
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 dd.yiv8147518892last p<br>

> span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts {<br>

> margin-right:0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table div div a
{<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892attach-table
{<br>

> width:400px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892file-title a,
#yiv8147518892<br>

> div.yiv8147518892file-title a:active,
#yiv8147518892<br>

> div.yiv8147518892file-title a:hover,
#yiv8147518892<br>

> div.yiv8147518892file-title a:visited {<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a,<br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a:active,<br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title
a:hover,<br>

> #yiv8147518892 div.yiv8147518892photo-title a:visited
{<br>

> text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 div#yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg<br>

> #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8147518892yshortcuts
{<br>

>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892green {<br>

> color:#628c2a;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892MsoNormal {<br>

> margin:0 0 0 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 o {<br>

> font-size:0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div {<br>

> float:left;width:72px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div div
{<br>

> border:1px solid<br>

>
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892photos div label
{<br>

>
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-category
{<br>

> font-size:77%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892reco-desc {<br>

> font-size:77%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 .yiv8147518892replbq {<br>

> margin:4px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-actbar div
a:first-child {<br>

> margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg {<br>

> font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica,
clean,<br>

> sans-serif;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg table
{<br>

> font-size:inherit;font:100%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
select,<br>

> #yiv8147518892 input, #yiv8147518892 textarea
{<br>

> font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg pre,
#yiv8147518892<br>

> code {<br>

> font:115% monospace;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg *
{<br>

> line-height:1.22em;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv8147518892logo {<br>

> padding-bottom:10px;}<br>

> <br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg p a
{<br>

> font-family:Verdana;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-msg<br>

> p#yiv8147518892attach-count span {<br>

> color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco<br>

> #yiv8147518892reco-head {<br>

> color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-reco {<br>

> margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov<br>

> li a {<br>

> font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov<br>

> li {<br>

> font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px
0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv8147518892ov<br>

> ul {<br>

> margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text {<br>

> font-family:Georgia;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text p {<br>

> margin:0 0 1em 0;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-text tt
{<br>

> font-size:120%;}<br>

> <br>

> #yiv8147518892 #yiv8147518892ygrp-vital ul
li:last-child {<br>

> border-right:none !important;<br>

> }<br>

> #yiv8147518892 <br>

> </p>

>

> </div>

>

>

> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->

> <div style="color: #fff; height:
0;"></div>

> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->

>

> </body>

>

> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->

> <head>

> <style type="text/css">

> <!--

> #ygrp-mkp {

> border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;

> font-family: Arial;

> margin: 10px 0;

> padding: 0 10px;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mkp hr {

> border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mkp #hd {

> color: #628c2a;

> font-size: 85%;

> font-weight: 700;

> line-height: 122%;

> margin: 10px 0;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mkp #ads {

> margin-bottom: 10px;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mkp .ad {

> padding: 0 0;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mkp .ad p {

> margin: 0;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mkp .ad a {

> color: #0000ff;

> text-decoration: none;

> }

> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {

> font-family: Arial;

> }

>

> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {

> margin: 10px 0px;

> font-weight: 700;

> font-size: 78%;

> line-height: 122%;

> }

>

> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {

> margin-bottom: 10px;

> padding: 0 0;

> }

>

> #actions {

> font-family: Verdana;

> font-size: 11px;

> padding: 10px 0;

> }

>

> #activity {

> background-color: #e0ecee;

> float: left;

> font-family: Verdana;

> font-size: 10px;

> padding: 10px;

> }

>

> #activity span {

> font-weight: 700;

> }

>

> #activity span:first-child {

> text-transform: uppercase;

> }

>

> #activity span a {

> color: #5085b6;

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> #activity span span {

> color: #ff7900;

> }

>

> #activity span .underline {

> text-decoration: underline;

> }

>

> .attach {

> clear: both;

> display: table;

> font-family: Arial;

> font-size: 12px;

> padding: 10px 0;

> width: 400px;

> }

>

> .attach div a {

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> .attach img {

> border: none;

> padding-right: 5px;

> }

>

> .attach label {

> display: block;

> margin-bottom: 5px;

> }

>

> .attach label a {

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> blockquote {

> margin: 0 0 0 4px;

> }

>

> .bold {

> font-family: Arial;

> font-size: 13px;

> font-weight: 700;

> }

>

> .bold a {

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> dd.last p a {

> font-family: Verdana;

> font-weight: 700;

> }

>

> dd.last p span {

> margin-right: 10px;

> font-family: Verdana;

> font-weight: 700;

> }

>

> dd.last p span.yshortcuts {

> margin-right: 0;

> }

>

> div.attach-table div div a {

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> div.attach-table {

> width: 400px;

> }

>

> div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active,
div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active,
div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {

> font-family: Verdana;

> font-size: 10px;

> font-weight: normal;

> }

>

> .green {

> color: #628c2a;

> }

>

> .MsoNormal {

> margin: 0 0 0 0;

> }

>

> o {

> font-size: 0;

> }

>

> #photos div {

> float: left;

> width: 72px;

> }

>

> #photos div div {

> border: 1px solid #666666;

> height: 62px;

> overflow: hidden;

> width: 62px;

> }

>

> #photos div label {

> color: #666666;

> font-size: 10px;

> overflow: hidden;

> text-align: center;

> white-space: nowrap;

> width: 64px;

> }

>

> #reco-category {

> font-size: 77%;

> }

>

> #reco-desc {

> font-size: 77%;

> }

>

> .replbq {

> margin: 4px;

> }

>

> #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {

> /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/

> margin-right: 2px;

> padding-right: 5px;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg {

> font-size: 13px;

> font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;

> *font-size: small;

> *font: x-small;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg table {

> font-size: inherit;

> font: 100%;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {

> font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {

> font:115% monospace;

> *font-size:100%;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg * {

> line-height: 1.22em;

> }

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg #logo {

> padding-bottom: 10px;

> }

>

>

> #ygrp-msg p a {

> font-family: Verdana;

> }

>

> #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {

> color: #1E66AE;

> font-weight: 700;

> }

>

> #ygrp-reco #reco-head {

> color: #ff7900;

> font-weight: 700;

> }

>

> #ygrp-reco {

> margin-bottom: 20px;

> padding: 0px;

> }

>

> #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {

> font-size: 130%;

> text-decoration: none;

> }

>

> #ygrp-sponsor #ov li {

> font-size: 77%;

> list-style-type: square;

> padding: 6px 0;

> }

>

> #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {

> margin: 0;

> padding: 0 0 0 8px;

> }

>

> #ygrp-text {

> font-family: Georgia;

> }

>

> #ygrp-text p {

> margin: 0 0 1em 0;

> }

>

> #ygrp-text tt {

> font-size: 120%;

> }

>

> #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {

> border-right: none !important;

> }

> -->

> </style>

> </head>

>

> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->

> </html>

> <!-- end group email -->

>

>

> --zdrbemG7jDjPmN0qMjWyt2LsOBXHvF8st-UXkle--













#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547 --
#yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp #yiv4307191547hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp #yiv4307191547ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp .yiv4307191547ad {
padding:0 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp .yiv4307191547ad p {
margin:0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mkp .yiv4307191547ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor
#yiv4307191547ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor
#yiv4307191547ygrp-lc #yiv4307191547hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor
#yiv4307191547ygrp-lc .yiv4307191547ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span {
font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547activity span
.yiv4307191547underline {
text-decoration:underline;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547bold a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 dd.yiv4307191547last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 dd.yiv4307191547last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 dd.yiv4307191547last p
span.yiv4307191547yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547attach-table {
width:400px;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547file-title a, #yiv4307191547
div.yiv4307191547file-title a:active, #yiv4307191547
div.yiv4307191547file-title a:hover, #yiv4307191547
div.yiv4307191547file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a,
#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a:active,
#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a:hover,
#yiv4307191547 div.yiv4307191547photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 div#yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv4307191547ygrp-msg p a span.yiv4307191547yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547green {
color:#628c2a;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}

#yiv4307191547 o {
font-size:0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547reco-category {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv4307191547 .yiv4307191547replbq {
margin:4px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv4307191547 input, #yiv4307191547 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv4307191547
code {
font:115% monospace;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-mlmsg #yiv4307191547logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}


#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-msg
p#yiv4307191547attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-reco
#yiv4307191547reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor #yiv4307191547ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor #yiv4307191547ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-sponsor #yiv4307191547ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}

#yiv4307191547 #yiv4307191547ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv4307191547