Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

Vladimir many thanks for the offer. I am OK. We are working to fix.
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Friday, June 24, 2016 8:07 AM, "Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hi James,
I am very sorry for your troubles.
Do you need any help? Call me if you want me to come and help. You have my phone.
Vladimir
SM 345
S/V Life is Good.
On Jun 24, 2016 6:19 AM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself.

The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion.

I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2S is lighter than air and will rise naturally.

Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event.

I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs.

Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy.

I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Immediately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue.

Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts.

Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about.
Jamie Wendell


 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hello James,

Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. 

I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. 

Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually

GL

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM007 



On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 
I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

Hi James,

I am very sorry for your troubles.
Do you need any help? Call me if you want me to come and help. You have my phone.

Vladimir

SM 345
S/V Life is Good.

On Jun 24, 2016 6:19 AM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself.

The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion.

I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2S is lighter than air and will rise naturally.

Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event.

I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs.

Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy.

I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Immediately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue.

Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts.

Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about.
Jamie Wendell


 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Hello James,

Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. 

I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. 

Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually

GL

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM007 



On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 
I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself.

The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion.

I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2S is lighter than air and will rise naturally.

Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event.

I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs.

Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy.

I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Immediately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue.

Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts.

Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about.
Jamie Wendell


 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello James,

Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. 

I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. 

Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually

GL

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM007 



On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 
I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
 

Hello James,

Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. 

I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. 

Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually

GL

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM007 



On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 
I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 
I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

I am no expert on this subject so won't speculate on any causes however will relay our experience with old batteries here too in case it saves someone else from going through a similar bad experience.

We purchased our boat early - at least 5 years ahead of actually being in a position to go cruising as we have one daughter still at home and we both still work. For this reason our boat is very lightly used, normally just week-ends etc., and therefore we did not want to replace our batteries (2011 lead acid batteries) until just before we commence cruising in April 2017..  ie replace at 6 years age due to light usage ... not a good idea so we discovered...

Earlier this year, when these batteries were 5 years old, I returned to the boat one day to find the under side of the mattress above the battery compartment very hot too touch. It was, in my view, far too hot to safely open the compartment so I immediately disconnected the solar charger feed in to the batteries, switched off the battery switches and let it all cool down till the next day. (By the way we are in a marina berth but have 540w solar through a Tracer MPPT controller so do not typically plug the chargers into shore power, other than for occasional use of washer or other power hungry items).

Late the next day when I opened the compartment (still pretty warm!) I discovered the compartment had about 1 inch of battery water sitting in it and some pretty warm batteries. Also the lovely Blue Amel sign on the starboard side (where the battery compartment vent exits the boat) was showing signs of heat cracks through the once beautiful Amel sign paint, so clearly that vent was working well and allowing the heat to escape.

So our lesson learnt, and hopefully others may now consider this safety issue too, is that we will in future always change our batteries out absolutely no later than 4 years regardless of how little use they have had, or how good their condition appears.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II - Amel 53 #332
Brisbane, Australia 






On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:57 AM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Batteries exploding is more common than you think. I am not sure, but would guess that internal shorts in some of the batteries caused your solar/wind controllers to overcharge and cook the batteries until the sealed batteries popped open, buldged, or exploded.

This is the primary reason that chargers and/or solar and wind controllers without temperature sensors should not be left unsupervised. Temperature sensors turn off the charger when the temperature increases. I know of about 6 boats that had this problem. Two of them were Amels, one SM and one 54. They each have new owners now, so I will not mention the boat names.

Your battery compartment is vented to the outside, and I am reasonably sure that venting was not the issue. You really do not want to vent that battery compartment inside the boat. Read up on why.

I am fairly certain that your batteries were at the limit of their life (4 years) and surely had internal shorts causing the overcharging, bulging, and explosion.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 23, 2016 8:30 PM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite se vere and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of tho se systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is s till another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should pre vent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Batteries exploding is more common than you think. I am not sure, but would guess that internal shorts in some of the batteries caused your solar/wind controllers to overcharge and cook the batteries until the sealed batteries popped open, buldged, or exploded.

This is the primary reason that chargers and/or solar and wind controllers without temperature sensors should not be left unsupervised. Temperature sensors turn off the charger when the temperature increases. I know of about 6 boats that had this problem. Two of them were Amels, one SM and one 54. They each have new owners now, so I will not mention the boat names.

Your battery compartment is vented to the outside, and I am reasonably sure that venting was not the issue. You really do not want to vent that battery compartment inside the boat. Read up on why.

I am fairly certain that your batteries were at the limit of their life (4 years) and surely had internal shorts causing the overcharging, bulging, and explosion.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 23, 2016 8:30 PM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite se vere and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of tho se systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is s till another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should pre vent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dodger glass thickness

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

We used a flexible product from Sikaflex. But, 3 of the 4 pieces on a SM are also screwed. I think it will take a lot of force to crack 10mm plexiglass.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 23, 2016 7:08 PM, "jwagam@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I just had all new dodger Windows cut from polycarbonate. Bill, you mentioned glueing them in. I assume you would mean using 5000 for this? I am on the fence on whether to go that route or use Silicon that can allow more flex. I was concerned that the window might crack as the dodger flexed. Thoughts?

Jay


On Jun 21, 2016, at 12:18 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I think Ben is dealing with crazing from UV damage. Polishing will have little to no improvement for crazing.

Bill

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Actually Mark Hanna, that used to be on this forum, they own, or may be owned a Sharki once told me to use toothpaste and yes it worked very well to remove scratch!

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/21/16, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dodger glass thickness
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2016, 10:58 AM


 









Do you know that it can be
polished? The polished is sold in automotive supply store
for polishing head lights.
On Jun 21, 2016 10:55 AM,
"'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Ben,
I am 99.9% sure it is Plexiglass
brand, and I am 100% sure it is 10mm (3/8"). Consider a
light tint...and be sure that the edges are painted where
they glue to the fiberglass.
BillBeBe
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at
2:39 PM, joedoakes66@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Can someone confirm the original
specification for SM hard dodger glass.  What is thickness
?  And is it acrylic or polycarbonate
?
Ben
DriverLa Bella
VitaSM 347




















































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Battery Compartment Explosion

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running.

The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation.

I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts:

  • At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped.
  • A few of the batteries were bulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad."
  • My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels.
  • The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them, and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.
  • The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.
  • I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.
  • Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically).

It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment.

I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess.................

All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt.

Jamie Wendell
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dodger glass thickness

jwagam@...
 

I just had all new dodger Windows cut from polycarbonate. Bill, you mentioned glueing them in. I assume you would mean using 5000 for this? I am on the fence on whether to go that route or use Silicon that can allow more flex. I was concerned that the window might crack as the dodger flexed. Thoughts?

Jay


On Jun 21, 2016, at 12:18 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I think Ben is dealing with crazing from UV damage. Polishing will have little to no improvement for crazing.

Bill

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Actually Mark Hanna, that used to be on this forum, they own, or may be owned a Sharki once told me to use toothpaste and yes it worked very well to remove scratch!

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/21/16, Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dodger glass thickness
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2016, 10:58 AM


 









Do you know that it can be
polished? The polished is sold in automotive supply store
for polishing head lights.
On Jun 21, 2016 10:55 AM,
"'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Ben,
I am 99.9% sure it is Plexiglass
brand, and I am 100% sure it is 10mm (3/8"). Consider a
light tint...and be sure that the edges are painted where
they glue to the fiberglass.
BillBeBe
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at
2:39 PM, joedoakes66@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Can someone confirm the original
specification for SM hard dodger glass.  What is thickness
?  And is it acrylic or polycarbonate
?
Ben
DriverLa Bella
VitaSM 347




















































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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem

karkauai
 

Hi Jim,
If everything with the shaft and motor looked OK, it almost had to be coming out at an angle rather than straight down???  Had the shaft and splines cleared the motor when it jammed?
I'd sure like to know what happened.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jun 23, 2016, at 1:03 PM, capt.anderson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thank you, Alexandre & Bill. Two of my three questions are now answered: It is normal to have to trim the 2 seals on the trunk, and my prop wont come off because the 6 nylon screws secure it to a hub and one must pull the pin out of the hub to remove it and expose the prop shaft lip seal. A picture is worth a thousand words, thanks, Alexandre!

I still am baffled by my first question. Upon easily separating the thruster shaft from the clean and well-greased motor, if let go the whole foot would either fall out the bottom of the boat or down to the temporary retaining hose clamp (which I installed about 2" from the very top of the shaft). Mine didn't. It stopped before reaching the hose clamp, with 4" of shaft still sticking up. much force, simultaneous from me above and the diver below, was required to get the shaft to go the remaining 4" to come out the bottom of the boat. I am worried that during re-assembly the shaft will again become stuck, leaving the tape between the special tool and the shaft underwater for an extended time.

Thanks very much for your help,

Jim
SM384 Sirena Azul
Seattle


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Wash Pump

karkauai
 

Hi JP.  I'm at the dock at Curaçao Yacht Club for a few days, then back out in Spanish Water on the anchor.
Kent

On Jun 23, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

We have the duo 100 and it is fine. Having lived in Aruba for some years, I agree with the dust comment. However, come December you should get plenty of fresh water. Where are you?

JPG
Eleuthera SM 007




On 23 Jun 2016, at 14:57, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi JP.  I would like to have that setup, but I have two issues:

On Kristy (SM243) the anchor wash pump is supplied with SW from a thru-hull inboard of the forward head (in the "hallway" between the head and hanging locker).  That would mean running a new hose from the FW tank through the bulkhead.

If that's not daunting enough, I have the 60 l/h watermaker, so I don't have enough capacity to justify washing the boat and chain with FW.

Too bad, here in the ABCs...there is constant accumulation of dust from the dry islands and has been a plume of dust from the Sahara adding to the problem since I arrived.  It has only sprinkled a few times in a month which turns the dust to mud.  I've been washing down w SW every few days to keep the cockpit and down below as dirt free as possible.  Even if I had the FW wash down I don't think I'd like to make water in the bay as there are no pump out facilities and I regularly smell black water being dumped.

If my Watermaker dies I will seriously consider replacing it with the duo.
Kent


On Jun 23, 2016, at 7:53 AM, Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We improved Eleuthera by removing the SW pump and connecting directly to the FW network. But... you need a good water maker.

JPG
Eleuthera, SM 007


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Wash Pump

Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Kent,

We have the duo 100 and it is fine. Having lived in Aruba for some years, I agree with the dust comment. However, come December you should get plenty of fresh water. Where are you?

JPG
Eleuthera SM 007




On 23 Jun 2016, at 14:57, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi JP.  I would like to have that setup, but I have two issues:

On Kristy (SM243) the anchor wash pump is supplied with SW from a thru-hull inboard of the forward head (in the "hallway" between the head and hanging locker).  That would mean running a new hose from the FW tank through the bulkhead.

If that's not daunting enough, I have the 60 l/h watermaker, so I don't have enough capacity to justify washing the boat and chain with FW.

Too bad, here in the ABCs...there is constant accumulation of dust from the dry islands and has been a plume of dust from the Sahara adding to the problem since I arrived.  It has only sprinkled a few times in a month which turns the dust to mud.  I've been washing down w SW every few days to keep the cockpit and down below as dirt free as possible.  Even if I had the FW wash down I don't think I'd like to make water in the bay as there are no pump out facilities and I regularly smell black water being dumped.

If my Watermaker dies I will seriously consider replacing it with the duo.
Kent


On Jun 23, 2016, at 7:53 AM, Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We improved Eleuthera by removing the SW pump and connecting directly to the FW network. But... you need a good water maker.

JPG
Eleuthera, SM 007


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I am a visual person myself, so try to illustrate what Bill, Gary, etc. have describe.

The problem of the 1st question doesn’t make sense to me… the shaft has the same size… going through a seal, so why should there be resistance?

Are you sure there was nothing in the water to block it?
Did you lower it straight down? not at an angle?

Unless Bill says otherwise, put lots of grease like on picture:
http://nikimat.com/bow_thruster_overhaul/bow_thruster_overhaul_76.jpg
This will help water getting in.

Good luck, please keep us posted of what you find…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico





--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 6/23/16, capt.anderson@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 23, 2016, 12:03 PM


 









Thank you, Alexandre & Bill. Two of my three
questions are now answered: It is normal to have to trim the
2 seals on the trunk, and my prop wont come off because the
6 nylon screws secure it to a hub and one must pull the pin
out of the hub to remove it and expose the prop shaft lip
seal. A picture is worth a thousand words, thanks,
Alexandre!

I still am
baffled by my first question. Upon easily separating the
thruster shaft from the clean and well-greased motor, if let
go the whole foot would either fall out the bottom of the
boat or down to the temporary retaining hose clamp (which I
installed about 2" from the very top of the shaft).
Mine didn't. It stopped before reaching the hose clamp,
with 4" of shaft still sticking up. much force,
simultaneous from me above and the diver below, was required
to get the shaft to go the remaining 4" to come out the
bottom of the boat. I am worried that during re-assembly the
shaft will again become stuck, leaving the tape between the
special tool and the shaft underwater for an extended
time.

Thanks very much for
your help,

Jim
SM384 Sirena Azul
Seattle









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem

Jim Anderson
 

Thank you, Alexandre & Bill. Two of my three questions are now answered: It is normal to have to trim the 2 seals on the trunk, and my prop wont come off because the 6 nylon screws secure it to a hub and one must pull the pin out of the hub to remove it and expose the prop shaft lip seal. A picture is worth a thousand words, thanks, Alexandre!

I still am baffled by my first question. Upon easily separating the thruster shaft from the clean and well-greased motor, if let go the whole foot would either fall out the bottom of the boat or down to the temporary retaining hose clamp (which I installed about 2" from the very top of the shaft). Mine didn't. It stopped before reaching the hose clamp, with 4" of shaft still sticking up. much force, simultaneous from me above and the diver below, was required to get the shaft to go the remaining 4" to come out the bottom of the boat. I am worried that during re-assembly the shaft will again become stuck, leaving the tape between the special tool and the shaft underwater for an extended time.

Thanks very much for your help,

Jim
SM384 Sirena Azul
Seattle


Re: 24V Watermaker

rossirossix4
 

HI  Barry,
Regarding your comment when you said  "This does not make sense!  Why would you deplete your stored energy in your batteries to run a 24 volt motor on your water maker."  The answer is that I would not.  Please re-read my post where I say " It would be great to be able to make water while motoring or with solar"  In neither situation would my batteries necessarily be depleted.  I have considerable excess solar capacity during the day.  There is an excess of amp hours available because my solar system commonly tops up my house bank (SM Redline) by about noon.  Following this, measured unused capacity from the solar panels is substantial--equaling or exceeding 10 amps at 27+V (my solar capacity is pretty high) .   Also, like most Amel owners I have a high capacity (stock) alternator on my engine.  Its capacity is underutilized when motoring for extended periods because, again, the batteries are topped off drawing only a few amps and only 10 amps or so are used for refridge, autopilot and LED lighting, etc.  No question, the 220 AC Dessalator is very good, and you are quite right, I would not trade it for the 24V only system that you are complaining about, but the capacity to make fresh water with both 24 and 220 is desirable for some of us and need not be at the expense of depleting batteries (and running the generator to charge them back up).
Cheers,
Bob, KAIMI SM429
At Anchor, Gocek Turkey--Haven't run my generator for 2 weeks  

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Wash Pump

karkauai
 

Thanks



On Jun 23, 2016, at 7:07 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Loctite 577 thread sealant was what we used, very expensive, but it works

Paul on S/Y KERPA SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Wash Pump

karkauai
 

Hi JP.  I would like to have that setup, but I have two issues:

On Kristy (SM243) the anchor wash pump is supplied with SW from a thru-hull inboard of the forward head (in the "hallway" between the head and hanging locker).  That would mean running a new hose from the FW tank through the bulkhead.

If that's not daunting enough, I have the 60 l/h watermaker, so I don't have enough capacity to justify washing the boat and chain with FW.

Too bad, here in the ABCs...there is constant accumulation of dust from the dry islands and has been a plume of dust from the Sahara adding to the problem since I arrived.  It has only sprinkled a few times in a month which turns the dust to mud.  I've been washing down w SW every few days to keep the cockpit and down below as dirt free as possible.  Even if I had the FW wash down I don't think I'd like to make water in the bay as there are no pump out facilities and I regularly smell black water being dumped.

If my Watermaker dies I will seriously consider replacing it with the duo.
Kent


On Jun 23, 2016, at 7:53 AM, Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We improved Eleuthera by removing the SW pump and connecting directly to the FW network. But... you need a good water maker.

JPG
Eleuthera, SM 007


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Anchor Wash Pump

Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
 

We improved Eleuthera by removing the SW pump and connecting directly to the FW network. But... you need a good water maker.

JPG
Eleuthera, SM 007



On 23 Jun 2016, at 02:43, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Danki (Papiamento for Thank You), Paul.  I'm going to try using an Oring first.  If that doesn't work, I'll use locktite or something like that.  On this pump both the threaded hose barb and the housing are plastic.  Does locktite work on plastics?
Kent
SM243
Kristy 


On Jun 22, 2016, at 2:02 PM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

We used Loctite for plumbing after that no leak
Paul on SYKerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: 24V Watermaker

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Barry & Robyn,

Those Amel owners that have these Dessalator DUO systems normally run the 24VDC system when motoring.

I agree that I would not change from the 160 liter to the DUO because when at anchor, and even with alternate charging systems like solar panels, you will find at least 3 hours a week to run the generator. And, 3 hours of the 160 liter produces all of the water that 2 people will use in a week including showers, washing dishes and clothes washing 2-3 loads. We average about 55 liters a day including everything. If you run the generator for 3 hours you can certainly top-off your batteries once a week to 100%. 

We traditionally have done this on Thursdays: Run the Generator, Wash 2-3 loads of clothes, charge the batteries, make water. We have to be careful not to use any other electrical device such as the Microwave or Hair Dryer when doing this. Also. we will ONLY wash clothes with heated water and run the water heater in the last hour because we try not to exceed the capacity of the generator. By the last hour the 100 amp 24VDC battery charger is only pulling a few amps. 
  • Dessalator 160 pulls 15 amps
  • Water heater about 3 amps
  • Clothes washer without hot water setting about 2 amps, but 10 amps with hot water. 
  • The 100 amp charger will pull about 9 amps with the batteries at 75-80%. 
  • The top capacity of the generator is 30 amps. I use 27 amps as my top.
It helps to have an amp meter installed to monitor this.

To me, a prejudiced and very happy 160 liter owner, the best and only solution is the 160 Liter Dessalator water maker. If I did not own a capable generator, I might sing a different tune.

Bill
BeBe 387
Grenada for a few more days 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 8:16 AM, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

This does not make sense!


Why would you deplete your stored energy in your batteries to run a 24 volt motor on your water maker. If you managed your water storage enough, you would be utilizing your genset output each day to top up your water using your 110/240VAC motor while replenishing your battery capacity at the same time.

I have a 24VDC motor on my Dessalator and I would gladly swap it for a 240VAC motor. Ridiculous as it may sound, the amperage used to run a 24VDC motor has to be replenished by running the Genset to keep the batteries topped up. Needless to say, I run my Genset while making water and charging my batteries at the same time.

Kind Regards
< div>Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM #171