Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
Patrick McAneny
Ric, I will call him , Joel thinks he has dealt with him and is good.
Thanks
Pat
-----Original Message----- From: Ric Gottschalk ric@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2016 10:16 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Pat,
Call marine electric systems in Severna Park, Md. Talk to Patrick. Knows Amels. Excellent!
Ric
Ric Gottschalk Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802
On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion
James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
Thanks everyone for the support and suggestions. We are cleaning things up and it may not be as bad as I originally thought. Somehow one or two of the batteries failed and caused the explosion. I guess my lessons learned is to suspect batteries when they get close to the end of life. I did not know that. Jamie s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044
On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:18 PM, "seafeverofcuan@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote: Dear Jamie, I had thermal runaway on a set of Vetus wet cell batteries that were eighteen months old. The incident happened at the top of the Sea of Cortez under sail, there was no explosion, I was alerted to it by the smell. The battery box was hot to touch and I was terrified to open it. The inside was covered in battery acid, all the cables were destroyed, four batteries were cracked, eight batteries had buckled cases. Four were serviceable which I hooked together to allow me to return to Mazatlan for repairs. It was a harrowing experience as the temperatures of each battery kept rising for hours as they sat overnight on a dock. I have met a number of people with variations of the same theme. Good luck with your new engine. Fair Winds Trevor Lusty Former owner of Seafever SM 425 Ireland
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
Pat,
Call marine electric systems in Severna Park, Md. Talk to Patrick. Knows Amels. Excellent!
Ric
Ric Gottschalk Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802
On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
peacock@...
Hi Pat,
Have noted with sadness your lightning woes. I can’t believe you’ve never had to file a claim for anything at your ripe age; you are one lucky guy. That said, I agree with Alexandre that you should not rely on you insurance carrier to do the right thing; they may, or they may not. Remember, they are in the business of making money by protecting people, but they are nevertheless in the business of making money first. One bit of info that may help: the new B&G instruments use a depth/speed/temperature sensor that fits perfectly into your current through-hull. Other manufacturers may fit, but they could not tell me for sure. Would be happy to show your our current electric/electronic setup whenever. Tom Peacock Aletes SM#240 Rock Hall MD
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Pat,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Not going into detail, but I had an accident 2 years ago in Nassau (not at fault since I was stationary in my slip at the marina - someone lost control, panic and run into me). The expert provided by “my” insurance was awful and I am still fighting (conference call monday morning). Don’t know who is your insurance, I read Pantaenius cover 100% for lighting strike, mine (Helvetia) will remove value because the equipment is older, not sure what decrease of value they would give a perfectly working radar which is 16 year old… probably closed to nothing… I met 3 (non Amel) boat owners, I was shock by the total cost $100.000… in their case everything was destroyed (radio, radar, AIS, chargers, inverter, batteries, lights, etc. even some electric wire), one guy had his carbon mast getting on fire… Personally, just having a bad experience with my insurance, I would read all I can about damages created by lightning and also hire another expert… Good luck, keep up posted on the progress… Alexandre --------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/25/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 25, 2016, 7:03 AM Alexandre, I have never dealt with an insurance claim , auto ,home ,health or boat . I will assume my insurance co. will do right by me ,unless I see evidence to the contrary. They are going to send someone out to assess things and then find someone to do the repairs. That is my main concern , finding someone that is qualified to do a proper and complete job. I will make sure the mechanic's primary interest is in doing a complete job . Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Definitely sorry to read about this Pat, This is always my fear… and yes definitely lots things affected can not be apparent, so make sure the expert you use is not related with your insurance. 2 years later, i am still fighting my insurance… Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/24/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 24, 2016, 2:24 PM Kent, I will keep his contact info. I would like to find someone close to home so I could be available to help assess situations and oversee work . Sorry to say , but I little faith , thus like to have eyes on. There are so many things that could have been affected , yet not apparent . I would complain about this being a hassle , but then compared to what you have been through , its a mere hiccup . Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Kent Robertson karkauai@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 9:51 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Hi Pat, sorry to hear about your lightning strike. I have been very comfortable with the Deltaville Boat Yard. Keith Ruse runs the yard and really likes Amels. His electrician was the only one I could find in the East coast who understood the engine electrical isolation issue and did a great job on it for me. Call Keith 804-776-8900 and talk to him about your damage. Maybe ask to speak with the electrician to make sure he's familiar with your equipment. Things like the 24/12V autopilot (which I don't fully understand yet) would let you know if he's up to the job. The one who did my engine isolation was Neal. Hope you get it sorted out without too much hassle. Kent SM243 Kristy Currently Curaçao On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: James, I am sorry to read about your problem. I have owned my boat for about ten years , and have felt fortunate that I have not had to deal with some of the problems others have had , until this past Tuesday. For the past 40 years of owning boats , I have had my fingers crossed every time an electrical storm moved through my area , my luck ran out Tuesday. While I see know physical damage to the boat , most of my electrical instruments have been damaged. James if you or anyone have found someone well versed in the electrical side of the Amel in the northern end of the Chesapeake Bay I would appreciate their name. James , best of luck to you and I hope you only have smooth seas ahead , you deserve it. Pat SM Shenanigans Sassafras River , Md. -----Original Message----- From: James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:49 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself. The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion. I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2 S is lighter than air and will rise naturally. Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event. I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs. Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy. I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Imme diately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue. Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts. Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about. Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@xs4all.nl [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello James, Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually GL Jean-Pierre Germain Eleuthera, SM007 On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running. The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation. I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts: At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped. A few of the batteries were b ulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad." My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels. The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them , and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically). It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment. I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess................. All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt. < div dir="ltr" id="yiv8910840589yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466724755081_7177">Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686 -- #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp #yiv1891729686hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp #yiv1891729686ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad p { margin:0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc #yiv1891729686hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc .yiv1891729686ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686actions { font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span { font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span .yiv1891729686underline { text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach img { border:none;padding-right:5px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach label a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 blockquote { margin:0 0 0 4px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686bold { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686bold a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p a { font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p span.yiv1891729686yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686attach-table { width:400px;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:active, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:hover, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:active, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:hover, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div#yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p a span.yiv1891729686yshortcuts { font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686green { color:#628c2a;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #yiv1891729686 o { font-size:0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686reco-category { font-size:77%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686reco-desc { font-size:77%;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686replbq { margin:4px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg { font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv1891729686 input, #yiv1891729686 textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1891729686 code { font:115% monospace;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height:1.22em;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1891729686logo { padding-bottom:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p a { font-family:Verdana;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p#yiv1891729686attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-reco #yiv1891729686reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } #yiv1891729686 #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556 -- #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp #yiv4670715556hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp #yiv4670715556ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp .yiv4670715556ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp .yiv4670715556ad p { margin:0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mkp .yiv4670715556ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-sponsor #yiv4670715556ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-sponsor #yiv4670715556ygrp-lc #yiv4670715556hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-sponsor #yiv4670715556ygrp-lc .yiv4670715556ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556actions { font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556activity span { font-weight:700;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556activity span .yiv4670715556underline { text-decoration:underline;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556attach div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556attach img { border:none;padding-right:5px;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556attach label a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 blockquote { margin:0 0 0 4px;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556bold { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556bold a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 dd.yiv4670715556last p a { font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv4670715556 dd.yiv4670715556last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv4670715556 dd.yiv4670715556last p span.yiv4670715556yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556attach-table { width:400px;} #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556file-title a, #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556file-title a:active, #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556file-title a:hover, #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556photo-title a, #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556photo-title a:active, #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556photo-title a:hover, #yiv4670715556 div.yiv4670715556photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 div#yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg #yiv4670715556ygrp-msg p a span.yiv4670715556yshortcuts { font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556green { color:#628c2a;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #yiv4670715556 o { font-size:0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556reco-category { font-size:77%;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556reco-desc { font-size:77%;} #yiv4670715556 .yiv4670715556replbq { margin:4px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg { font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv4670715556 input, #yiv4670715556 textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv4670715556 code { font:115% monospace;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height:1.22em;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-mlmsg #yiv4670715556logo { padding-bottom:10px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-msg p a { font-family:Verdana;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-msg p#yiv4670715556attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-reco #yiv4670715556reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-sponsor #yiv4670715556ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-sponsor #yiv4670715556ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-sponsor #yiv4670715556ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;} #yiv4670715556 #yiv4670715556ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } #yiv4670715556
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
Patrick McAneny
Alexandre, I have never dealt with an insurance claim , auto ,home ,health or boat . I will assume my insurance co. will do right by me ,unless I see evidence to the contrary. They are going to send someone out to assess things and then find someone to do the repairs. That is my main concern , finding someone that is qualified to do a proper and complete job. I will make sure the mechanic's primary interest is in doing a complete job .
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Definitely sorry to read about this Pat,
This is always my fear… and yes definitely lots things affected can not be apparent, so make sure the expert you use is not related with your insurance. 2 years later, i am still fighting my insurance… Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 6/24/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Friday, June 24, 2016, 2:24 PM Kent, I will keep his contact info. I would like to find someone close to home so I could be available to help assess situations and oversee work . Sorry to say , but I little faith , thus like to have eyes on. There are so many things that could have been affected , yet not apparent . I would complain about this being a hassle , but then compared to what you have been through , its a mere hiccup . Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 9:51 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Hi Pat, sorry to hear about your lightning strike. I have been very comfortable with the Deltaville Boat Yard. Keith Ruse runs the yard and really likes Amels. His electrician was the only one I could find in the East coast who understood the engine electrical isolation issue and did a great job on it for me. Call Keith 804-776-8900 and talk to him about your damage. Maybe ask to speak with the electrician to make sure he's familiar with your equipment. Things like the 24/12V autopilot (which I don't fully understand yet) would let you know if he's up to the job. The one who did my engine isolation was Neal. Hope you get it sorted out without too much hassle. Kent SM243 Kristy Currently Curaçao On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: James, I am sorry to read about your problem. I have owned my boat for about ten years , and have felt fortunate that I have not had to deal with some of the problems others have had , until this past Tuesday. For the past 40 years of owning boats , I have had my fingers crossed every time an electrical storm moved through my area , my luck ran out Tuesday. While I see know physical damage to the boat , most of my electrical instruments have been damaged. James if you or anyone have found someone well versed in the electrical side of the Amel in the northern end of the Chesapeake Bay I would appreciate their name. James , best of luck to you and I hope you only have smooth seas ahead , you deserve it. Pat SM Shenanigans Sassafras River , Md. -----Original Message----- From: James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:49 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself. The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion. I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2 S is lighter than air and will rise naturally. Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event. I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs. Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy. I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Imme diately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue. Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts. Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about. Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Hello James, Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually GL Jean-Pierre Germain Eleuthera, SM007 On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running. The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation. I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts: At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped. A few of the batteries were b ulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad." My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels. The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them , and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically). It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment. I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess................. All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt. < div dir="ltr" id="yiv8910840589yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466724755081_7177">Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686 -- #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp #yiv1891729686hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp #yiv1891729686ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad p { margin:0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc #yiv1891729686hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc .yiv1891729686ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686actions { font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span { font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span .yiv1891729686underline { text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach img { border:none;padding-right:5px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach label a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 blockquote { margin:0 0 0 4px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686bold { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686bold a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p a { font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p span.yiv1891729686yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686attach-table { width:400px;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:active, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:hover, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:active, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:hover, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div#yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p a span.yiv1891729686yshortcuts { font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686green { color:#628c2a;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #yiv1891729686 o { font-size:0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686reco-category { font-size:77%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686reco-desc { font-size:77%;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686replbq { margin:4px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg { font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv1891729686 input, #yiv1891729686 textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1891729686 code { font:115% monospace;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height:1.22em;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1891729686logo { padding-bottom:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p a { font-family:Verdana;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p#yiv1891729686attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-reco #yiv1891729686reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } #yiv1891729686
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Oceanair Skyscreen Shade Screen
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Bob,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
In January 2015 I installed the Oceanair Skyscreen 1080 in the salon and forward cabin. Oceanair SKYSCREEN Roller Surface Size 1080 - Beige-Oceanair SKYSCREEN Roller Surface Size 1080 - Beige They cost $230 each from Defender I think they are an older, not as elegant version of the one you are showing, but same concept. I only found pictures of the forward cabin… http://nikimat.com/hatches_screen_oceanair.html Because of the daylight pictures of the salon don’t look good, if you want tonight I can take pictures and add them. I mainly purchase them because it was a pain to remove the net to close the hatches every time it start raining… then 15 minutes later it stops… With this I can quickly open the screen to lower the hatch. I am happy with them overall. After 6 months the screen started to get loose from the bar that pulls it, but a little glue solved the issue. During the installation, I had to put some sort of auto adhesive padding/rubber all around to remove the space/gap to the boat. Hope that helps! Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico --------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/25/16, rossidesigngroup@gmail.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Oceanair Skyscreen Shade Screen To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 25, 2016, 2:43 AM \has anyone ever installed a suface mount Ocean Air Skyscreen on the salon and fwd stateroom hatches of their Super Maramu? These are the combination screen and shade devices, I saw a posting for the aft cabin but we want one for the 2 front large hatches. \looks like they have a model for the 20x20inch Lewmar and a 20x20 generic. Does anyone have a model number for the large hatches? SKYSCREEN Roller Surface 2 | Oceanair SKYSCREEN Roller Surface 2 | Oceanair To suit all budgets, a custom made combination flyscreen and blackout blind for hatches. Quick and easy to install, SKYSCREEN Roller Surface is a uniqu... View on www.oceanair.co.uk Preview by Yahoo Bob, KAIMI SM 429 #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331 -- #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp #yiv2308618331hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp #yiv2308618331ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp .yiv2308618331ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp .yiv2308618331ad p { margin:0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mkp .yiv2308618331ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-sponsor #yiv2308618331ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-sponsor #yiv2308618331ygrp-lc #yiv2308618331hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-sponsor #yiv2308618331ygrp-lc .yiv2308618331ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331actions { font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331activity span { font-weight:700;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331activity span .yiv2308618331underline { text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331attach div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331attach img { border:none;padding-right:5px;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331attach label a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 blockquote { margin:0 0 0 4px;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331bold { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331bold a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 dd.yiv2308618331last p a { font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv2308618331 dd.yiv2308618331last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv2308618331 dd.yiv2308618331last p span.yiv2308618331yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331attach-table { width:400px;} #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331file-title a, #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331file-title a:active, #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331file-title a:hover, #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331photo-title a, #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331photo-title a:active, #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331photo-title a:hover, #yiv2308618331 div.yiv2308618331photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 div#yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2308618331ygrp-msg p a span.yiv2308618331yshortcuts { font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331green { color:#628c2a;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #yiv2308618331 o { font-size:0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331reco-category { font-size:77%;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331reco-desc { font-size:77%;} #yiv2308618331 .yiv2308618331replbq { margin:4px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg { font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv2308618331 input, #yiv2308618331 textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2308618331 code { font:115% monospace;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height:1.22em;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2308618331logo { padding-bottom:10px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-msg p a { font-family:Verdana;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-msg p#yiv2308618331attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-reco #yiv2308618331reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-sponsor #yiv2308618331ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-sponsor #yiv2308618331ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-sponsor #yiv2308618331ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;} #yiv2308618331 #yiv2308618331ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } #yiv2308618331
|
|
Oceanair Skyscreen Shade Screen
rossirossix4
\has anyone ever installed a suface mount Ocean Air Skyscreen on the salon and fwd stateroom hatches of their Super Maramu? These are the combination screen and shade devices, I saw a posting for the aft cabin but we want one for the 2 front large hatches. \looks like they have a model for the 20x20inch Lewmar and a 20x20 generic. Does anyone have a model number for the large hatches? SKYSCREEN Roller Surface 2 | Oceanair Bob, KAIMI SM 429
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion
Hi Jamie, Thank's for the information. We bought AMEL 54 #17 last year,the survey indicated 2 suspect batteries. A month later we noticed that they were getting hot when being charged, sweated and we had gas and moisture in the battery compartment. Changed all 12 and start battery, now no more problems. When they were being changed everything was turned off, we touched 2 cables and shorted the batteries. No fuses, the Mastervolt 500 Inverter got zapped. Replaced it with a Mastervolt 2500 which just fitted, cables upgraded and fuses then put on both + and -. I like your idea of putting fuses on all the individual batteries, that's for that. Barry and Penny Connor AMEL 54 # 17 "Lady Penelope II" Marseille
On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:45 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion
James Alton
This has been an interesting thread to read. I only thought that I would add that while all lead acid batteries produce hydrogen, there are low gassing batteries using different chemistries that produce a lot less and this is a consideration for me when making a choice. I understand the attraction of the AGMs due to the slightly higher initial stats they have over other battery types, but I have had more trouble with AGM’s with cases splitting, leaking electrolyte, case swelling and a shorter useable life expectancy than the premium flooded or gel batteries. I might add that while all of the electrolytes are corrosive, the AGM electrolyte seems to be the worst by far.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Best, James
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Definitely sorry to read about this Pat,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
This is always my fear… and yes definitely lots things affected can not be apparent, so make sure the expert you use is not related with your insurance. 2 years later, i am still fighting my insurance… Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/24/16, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 24, 2016, 2:24 PM Kent, I will keep his contact info. I would like to find someone close to home so I could be available to help assess situations and oversee work . Sorry to say , but I little faith , thus like to have eyes on. There are so many things that could have been affected , yet not apparent . I would complain about this being a hassle , but then compared to what you have been through , its a mere hiccup . Thanks, Pat -----Original Message----- From: Kent Robertson karkauai@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 9:51 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Hi Pat, sorry to hear about your lightning strike. I have been very comfortable with the Deltaville Boat Yard. Keith Ruse runs the yard and really likes Amels. His electrician was the only one I could find in the East coast who understood the engine electrical isolation issue and did a great job on it for me. Call Keith 804-776-8900 and talk to him about your damage. Maybe ask to speak with the electrician to make sure he's familiar with your equipment. Things like the 24/12V autopilot (which I don't fully understand yet) would let you know if he's up to the job. The one who did my engine isolation was Neal. Hope you get it sorted out without too much hassle. Kent SM243 Kristy Currently Curaçao On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: James, I am sorry to read about your problem. I have owned my boat for about ten years , and have felt fortunate that I have not had to deal with some of the problems others have had , until this past Tuesday. For the past 40 years of owning boats , I have had my fingers crossed every time an electrical storm moved through my area , my luck ran out Tuesday. While I see know physical damage to the boat , most of my electrical instruments have been damaged. James if you or anyone have found someone well versed in the electrical side of the Amel in the northern end of the Chesapeake Bay I would appreciate their name. James , best of luck to you and I hope you only have smooth seas ahead , you deserve it. Pat SM Shenanigans Sassafras River , Md. -----Original Message----- From: James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:49 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself. The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion. I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2 S is lighter than air and will rise naturally. Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event. I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs. Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy. I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Imme diately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue. Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts. Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about. Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@xs4all.nl [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hello James, Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually GL Jean-Pierre Germain Eleuthera, SM007 On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi James, how horrible. We all feel for you. You say the battery compartment is sealed apart from the vent. On our SM 299 there are five vents at floor level in the bottom of the battery compartment to allow air to enter. Does the 54 not have these vents. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@yahoo..com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 12:30 PM Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced what just happened to me, but I think it is important info for everyone out there. My battery compartment exploded early yesterday morning. No one is certain exactly what happened, and no one who has investigated the accident has ever seen this occur. I am still up on the hard in Annapolis trying to get my new engine installation completed - that was a subject of a previous thread, and I will update everyone who followed that thread separately once I get my new engine running. The explosion was quite severe and apparently set off my smoke detector which everyone in the yard heard. There was no fire. Oddly no one claims they heard the explosion itself, as it may have happened before the contractors started to come in for work. It blew the lid completely off of the passageway berth and into the ceiling, jamming it between the wall of the aft closet and the wall near the nav station closet. Fortunately no one was on the boat at the time, but if someone had been in the passageway between the main saloon and the aft cabin, they would have been seriously injured or even killed. I do not want to even speculate what would have happened if someone had been sleeping on the berth. I had some parts and tools sitting on the berth cushion and they were either shredded, melted, or survived depending on the material. It was a scary situation. I am working with my insurance company and they hired a local surveyor to assess the situation. They, as I do, want to know the reason for the explosion. Beyond the damage to the compartment lid/berth and the surrounding woodwork, here are the facts: At least 2 of the AGM batteries had been breached with cracks in the tops. None of the VRLA valves had popped. A few of the batteries were b ulged out at the sides. Not clear if that happened initially or as a result of the explosion. Ultimately about half of the 12 on the 24-volt side were "bad." My shore power connections were off. The only charging source would have been wind and solar. Both of those systems have been working correctly for a long time, and early in the morning there was no wind and not much sun. We do not think it was an overcharge issue. I have multiple monitoring systems including the Xantrex that came with the boat, plus a Maretron monitor and Blue Sea meters. All were nominal when I left the boat before the explosion. Voltage was about 27.5 and there was a small load of maybe 3 or 4 amps DC, easily absorbed with the solar panels. The batteries are a little over 4 years old and came with the boat. I have never had a problem with them , and the charging systems have never pushed above 28 volts.The battery setup was reworked last winter by a very good contractor here in the yard. They added fuses to all the loads, and it has worked very well for months now. I find it hard to believe that there was no primary battery fusing on the boat at all, but that is still another topic for review. However, the explosion would not have been related to current flow and hence the fusing was not an issue one way or the other.I have 12 Intimidator AGM batteries in the battery area with a 12V starting battery.Testing them after the accident revealed about half of them to be unserviceable (either electrically or physically). It is clear to the investigators that the explosion was the result of hydrogen gas buildup in the battery compartment. The problem they observed is that (while there is a vent at the forward part of the battery compartment, Amel seals the compartment completely). Normally the vent is OK, as any residual hydrogen will escape out the vent.. But the Amel setup prevents any makeup air from entering the compartment. Normally AGM batteries do not vent externally, as the hydrogen sulfide normally released in a flooded battery is actually recombined in an AGM setup. There are valves in a VRLA battery, which are supposed to open if the internal pressure gets too high. However, if the casing is breached, gasses will release immediately, which is what happened here. What no one knows yet is why the batteries cracked open. The bottom line is that the vent could not release the gas fast enough, and the hydrogen gas exploded as it built up in the sealed compartment. I am going to modify the configuration by adding ventilation to the front of the battery compartment. I am also going to install 13 new Lifeline batteries (12 31-XT and 1 31T battery for starting). Good quality batteries with a modified install should prevent a recurrence. What a mess................. All I can say is thank goodness no one was hurt. < div dir="ltr" id="yiv8910840589yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466724755081_7177">Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686 -- #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp #yiv1891729686hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp #yiv1891729686ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad p { margin:0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mkp .yiv1891729686ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc #yiv1891729686hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ygrp-lc .yiv1891729686ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686actions { font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span { font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686activity span .yiv1891729686underline { text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach img { border:none;padding-right:5px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686attach label a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 blockquote { margin:0 0 0 4px;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686bold { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686bold a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p a { font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 dd.yiv1891729686last p span.yiv1891729686yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686attach-table { width:400px;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:active, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:hover, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:active, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:hover, #yiv1891729686 div.yiv1891729686photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 div#yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p a span.yiv1891729686yshortcuts { font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686green { color:#628c2a;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #yiv1891729686 o { font-size:0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686reco-category { font-size:77%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686reco-desc { font-size:77%;} #yiv1891729686 .yiv1891729686replbq { margin:4px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg { font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv1891729686 input, #yiv1891729686 textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1891729686 code { font:115% monospace;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height:1.22em;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1891729686logo { padding-bottom:10px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p a { font-family:Verdana;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-msg p#yiv1891729686attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-reco #yiv1891729686reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-sponsor #yiv1891729686ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;} #yiv1891729686 #yiv1891729686ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } #yiv1891729686
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi James, I agree completely with your analysis of the venting and airflow. Just for everyones info we never get battery gas smell in the inside of the boat, even when undertaking the controlled overcharge during desulphation. If there is hydrogen gas built up an ignition source such as a spark could set off an explosion. However in a charge situation with lead acid batteries (james I know yours were not) inadequate venting from the individual batteries can cause a battery to explode. At normal charge rates the built in vents are adequate. At boost charging rapidly the battery caps should be removed, the lid on the battery chamber left closed (on the SM) and the gas vents externally. I would not desulphate with a closed battery box as the 54 has. Regards Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl
From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" To: "amelyachtowners@..." Sent: Friday, 24 June 2016 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally.. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself. The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion. I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside.. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2S is lighter than air and will rise naturally. Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event. I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs. Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy. I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Immediately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue. Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts. Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about. Jamie Wendell s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote: Hello James, Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons. I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension. Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually GL Jean-Pierre Germain Eleuthera, SM007 On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake
Patrick McAneny
Kent, I will keep his contact info. I would like to find someone close to home so I could be available to help assess situations and oversee work . Sorry to say , but I little faith , thus like to have eyes on. There are so many things that could have been affected , yet not apparent . I would complain about this being a hassle , but then compared to what you have been through , its a mere hiccup .
Thanks,
Pat
-----Original Message----- From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 9:51 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lightning Strike Chesapeake Hi Pat, sorry to hear about your lightning strike. I have been very comfortable with the Deltaville Boat Yard. Keith Ruse runs the yard and really likes Amels. His electrician was the only one I could find in the East coast who understood the engine electrical isolation issue and did a great job on it for me. Call Keith 804-776-8900 and talk to him about your damage. Maybe ask to speak with the electrician to make sure he's familiar with your equipment. Things like the 24/12V autopilot (which I don't fully understand yet) would let you know if he's up to the job. The one who did my engine isolation was Neal.
Hope you get it sorted out without too much hassle.
Kent
SM243
Kristy
Currently Curaçao
On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote: James, I am sorry to read about your problem. I have owned my boat for about ten years , and have felt fortunate that I have not had to deal with some of the problems others have had , until this past Tuesday. For the past 40 years of owning boats , I have had my fingers crossed every time an electrical storm moved through my area , my luck ran out Tuesday. While I see know physical damage to the boat , most of my electrical instruments have been damaged. James if you or anyone have found someone well versed in the electrical side of the Amel in the northern end of the Chesapeake Bay I would appreciate their name. James , best of luck to you and I hope you only have smooth seas ahead , you deserve it.
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River , Md.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 6:49 am Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion I hear from Danny that the SM has battery compartment venting at the bottom that allows air to move up through the battery compartment. That is the way to do it, as it allows make-up air to enter and go out the exhaust and therefore vent any hydrogen sulfide if it is released. While wet cells will release small amounts of H2S in operation, normally, AGM batteries do not release gas, as it is recombined internally. Vents at the bottom would also prevent any gasses from leaking into the boat itself.
The 54 does not have any ingress, only egress through the vent. It is sealed tight. That is what caused the build-up of hydrogen gas. The batteries themselves did not explode - 2 of them cracked a bit at the top, which is what caused the gas to release. The others were damaged as a result of the explosion.
I am sorry to disagree with other opinions, but air circulation is needed. Yes hydrogen sulfide is a toxic agent, but after my experience, it would be far better to let a little bit of it vent into the boat in an emergency situation, versus contain it in an enclosure that is essentially a bomb when the battery vents faster than the passive vent can exhaust it outside. In reality, it would not vent into the boat if the air intake is lower than the exhaust. H2
S is lighter than air and will rise naturally.
Just for clarification, there was no essentially no charging occurring here; while no one has definitively identified the culprit, the accepted conclusion at this point is that one or two of the batteries suffered an internal short and breached on their own - likely because they were nearing the end of life at 4 years, but they came with the boat and I have no record of their service history. There was a slight solar power charge coming in, but it was early in the morning and little sun would have been illuminating the panels. There IS temperature compensation, and the solar charger is a nearly new 45-amp Morningstar MPPT controller. While it certainly could have failed, it was operating fine just before the event.
I will report more if my insurance surveyor or the electrical experts here in the yard are able to offer additional inputs.
Just as a side note, I know Amels are good boats, and I see that. They are well built. However, I have noted some less-than-stellar design decisions that likely are more the result of EU regulations rather than Amel philosophy.
I have owned the boat now for just over a year. I have only sailed/motored it for 4 days last June. Imme
diately after that initial delivery the engine failed. I am not going to repeat that story, but the final analysis proved that during my 4-day motor from FL to MD, saltwater had migrated into the exhaust manifold and up into the head - not because of cranking. When the water evaporated a week after arrival in MD, salt crystals remained in the engine and pitted the valves and valve seats. That seriously compromised the engine and the only good solution was a new engine. Yes, I could have rebuilt it for about half the cost - not worth it as there was a fair amount of external corrosion on the starboard aft side of the engine. The second design flaw is that there are NO fuses in any of the primary DC feeders from the batteries. That is a serious issue, as any short-to-ground or system overloads would have overheated the circuit and caused the affected wire to melt or catch on fire. Fuses are needed to protect the wires at the battery. I changed all of that and now have an array
of fuses in the compartment adjacent to the batteries. And now the sealed battery compartment issue.
Perhaps I am venting now, but as others have noted, I will persevere and resolve all of these issues. I do appreciate the quality that goes into these yachts.
Thanks for the support - that is what this group is all about.
Jamie Wendell
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044
On Friday, June 24, 2016 3:28 AM, "Jean-Pierre Germain jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Hello James,
Your AMEL ownership has been marred by unusual problems; mine has also not been a bed of roses but for different reasons.
I had a NICAD battery runaway once. At High altitude, The events take a different dimension.
Persevere, these are good boats and you will be well rewarded eventually
GL
Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM007
On 24 Jun 2016, at 08:10, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion
seafeverofcuan@...
Dear Jamie,
I had thermal runaway on a set of Vetus wet cell batteries that were eighteen months old. The incident happened at the top of the Sea of Cortez under sail, there was no explosion, I was alerted to it by the smell. The battery box was hot to touch and I was terrified to open it. The inside was covered in battery acid, all the cables were destroyed, four batteries were cracked, eight batteries had buckled cases. Four were serviceable which I hooked together to allow me to return to Mazatlan for repairs. It was a harrowing experience as the temperatures of each battery kept rising for hours as they sat overnight on a dock. I have met a number of people with variations of the same theme. Good luck with your new engine. Fair Winds Trevor Lusty Former owner of Seafever SM 425 Ireland
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem
Alexandre Uster von Baar
I think you are right Bill!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Can't wait to hear from Jim is there was any barnacle !!! Alexandre --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/24/16, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 24, 2016, 1:01 PM Jim, I am trying to imagine what could have caused that. I have an idea, actually two. Both involve the anti-torque boot that is above the propeller. 1.) If the bow thruster tube was not totally vertical, I would imagine that the anti-torque boot that is above the propeller could possibly jam in the bow thruster cavity because it is a close fit. 2.) There may have been barnacles or other shell sea life in that cavity near the internal waterline. Since there is a close fit of the anti-torque boot, I am guessing that could also cause a jam. I can't wait to hear what it was. Bill Rouse BeBe Amel 53 #387 Sent from my tablet +1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail On Jun 24, 2016 1:01 PM, "capt.anderson@gmail.com [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Kent & the Group, Yes, the shaft was clear of the motor by at least 10". It jammed with about 4" of shaft remaining above the seal. I will report more when I re-install tomorrow, which I will do with my diver present, just in case. Jim SM384 Sirena Azul Seattle
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Jim, I am trying to imagine what could have caused that. I have an idea, actually two. Both involve the anti-torque boot that is above the propeller. 1.) If the bow thruster tube was not totally vertical, I would imagine that the anti-torque boot that is above the propeller could possibly jam in the bow thruster cavity because it is a close fit. 2.) There may have been barnacles or other shell sea life in that cavity near the internal waterline. Since there is a close fit of the anti-torque boot, I am guessing that could also cause a jam. I can't wait to hear what it was. Bill Rouse
On Jun 24, 2016 1:01 PM, "capt.anderson@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: bow thruster service. Problem
Jim Anderson
Kent & the Group, Yes, the shaft was clear of the motor by at least 10". It jammed with about 4" of shaft remaining above the seal. I will report more when I re-install tomorrow, which I will do with my diver present, just in case.
Jim SM384 Sirena Azul Seattle
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator pulley
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Paul, You should ask the country of origin and about isolated ground. This is not a part that I would risk on randomly good and bad manufacturing in China. Good luck! Bill Rouse
On Jun 24, 2016 9:52 AM, "sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
|
|
Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Santorin furling motor brushes
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Ian,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Not really replying your question, but when you find out, would be interesting to know if they are similar to the SM2K. I only know the ones for the Genoa (on the SM2K), since I have not changed them, would love someone could confirm: http://nikimat.com/charbon_genoa.html Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico --------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/24/16, oceanhobo@yahoo.co.uk [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Santorin furling motor brushes To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 24, 2016, 10:30 AM does anyone know the size of the brushes for the furling motors on the mainsail, also the size of the Genoa motor brushes?Thanks Ian 'Ocean Hobo' Santorin 96 #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978 -- #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp #yiv3124915978hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp #yiv3124915978ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp .yiv3124915978ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp .yiv3124915978ad p { margin:0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mkp .yiv3124915978ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-sponsor #yiv3124915978ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-sponsor #yiv3124915978ygrp-lc #yiv3124915978hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-sponsor #yiv3124915978ygrp-lc .yiv3124915978ad { margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978actions { font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978activity { background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978activity span { font-weight:700;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978activity span:first-child { text-transform:uppercase;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978activity span a { color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978activity span span { color:#ff7900;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978activity span .yiv3124915978underline { text-decoration:underline;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978attach { clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978attach div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978attach img { border:none;padding-right:5px;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978attach label { display:block;margin-bottom:5px;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978attach label a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 blockquote { margin:0 0 0 4px;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978bold { font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978bold a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 dd.yiv3124915978last p a { font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv3124915978 dd.yiv3124915978last p span { margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;} #yiv3124915978 dd.yiv3124915978last p span.yiv3124915978yshortcuts { margin-right:0;} #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978attach-table div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978attach-table { width:400px;} #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978file-title a, #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978file-title a:active, #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978file-title a:hover, #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978file-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978photo-title a, #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978photo-title a:active, #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978photo-title a:hover, #yiv3124915978 div.yiv3124915978photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 div#yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3124915978ygrp-msg p a span.yiv3124915978yshortcuts { font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978green { color:#628c2a;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978MsoNormal { margin:0 0 0 0;} #yiv3124915978 o { font-size:0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978photos div { float:left;width:72px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978photos div div { border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978photos div label { color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978reco-category { font-size:77%;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978reco-desc { font-size:77%;} #yiv3124915978 .yiv3124915978replbq { margin:4px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg { font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv3124915978 input, #yiv3124915978 textarea { font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv3124915978 code { font:115% monospace;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height:1.22em;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3124915978logo { padding-bottom:10px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-msg p a { font-family:Verdana;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-msg p#yiv3124915978attach-count span { color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-reco #yiv3124915978reco-head { color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-sponsor #yiv3124915978ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-sponsor #yiv3124915978ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-sponsor #yiv3124915978ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;} #yiv3124915978 #yiv3124915978ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important; } #yiv3124915978
|
|
Santorin furling motor brushes
oceanhobo@...
does anyone know the size of the brushes for the furling motors on the mainsail, also the size of the Genoa motor brushes? Thanks Ian 'Ocean Hobo' Santorin 96
|
|