Date   

House Batteries

marksharki
 

We have been using Mastervolt AGM Batteries. 4 each of the 4D size. We always run the boat off the house bank and only charge when the bank is less than 70% full. This is so that the battery chemistry is always being used. Living at the dock with the shore charger always on does not exercise the bank. A good battery monitor is essential. We use a Tri-Metric brand monitor. When you get used to monitoring your house bank, it will become very obvious to you when the bank is losing its capacity and at the end of its life. Or if you have another problem, like a failed cell. After 6 years of good performance, the bank started failing quickly and lost capacity quickly. We are now one year into our second set of Mastervolt AGM batteries. We use a 50 Amp Mastervolt shore charger with battery thermometry. The engine has a 165 Amp Balmar Alternator with battery and alternator thermometers and a 3 stage Balmar smart regulator, properly programmed. I have no reason to believe that the new bank will perform any differently than the first bank. Please understand that these battery banks have a tremendous amount of energy stored in them. A good battery bank installation is not enough. As a prudent mariner you need to know how to properly operate the bank and understand its performance trends both long term and sometimes minute by minute. The safety of your vessel and the lives of your crew depend on it.
Fair Winds.
Mark and Joanna Hanna
Currently cruising New England.
Amel Sharki # 49
S/V : MARGUERITE
____________________________________________________________
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator wiring Volve D3-110i

ya_fohi
 

Jamie, it took me a while to figure out how to upload a phote - here's what I did: in the photos page create a new album, then upload your photo, then click the Post button. Alternatively, go to the Photos page, Albums, open the album "Ya Fohi", then add a photo.
Cheers,
Paul


Re: Alternator wiring Volve D3-110i

ya_fohi
 

Jose, thanks, but it looks like the photo you have is the 24v alternator, what I need is the 12v one.
Cheers,
Paul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] bow thruster service. Problem

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Jim,

If I was in your spot, before trying more dramatic fixes, I would take a bit of 1200 grit emory paper and throughly polish the shaft at the spot where it hangs up.  With grit that fine it would be hard to remove enough metal to hurt anything. It might just fix the issue, it’s easy to try, and cheap.

If you are right, and the shaft is out of round, then it won’t help.  But how could that happen?

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
Highlands, New Jersey

On Jun 26, 2016, at 14:55, capt.anderson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thank you everyone for your comments and interest. Here is my bowthruster in-the-water re-installation report: There was a little green slimy growth inside the trunk which I had my diver clean. It wasn’t bad and was not enough to be a problem. No barnacles or crustations. Upon re-installation (with a diver standing by) the shaft jammed at the same place it did on the way down, which is with about 4” of shaft above the interior seal. It was not possible to pull up hard enough to pull the shaft further up.  All it took was a gentle push from the diver below to overcome the resistance and it came up.  The thruster now operates fine however when retracting, at that exact 4” spot you can hear the retraction motor load up slightly for less than one second and you can see an ever-so-slight pause or “hiccup” in the upward movement of the shaft.  During extension the shaft hangs up in the same place on the way down but it is more pronounced. The extension/retraction motor doesn’t load up because the heavy weight of the bowthruster motor is enough to overcome the resistance. (I made a 0:27 low-resolution/small file size video but cannot easily figure out how to upload it here. I will if I can figure out ho to.)  My best guess is that the shaft is out-of-round at the point where it hangs up. For the time being my plan is to only service the bowthruster when the boat is out of the water, and at that time to see if a machine shop can precisely measure the top of the shaft and mill it back to the correct specification then. I will also first consult with Amel and ask for their suggestions and (ugh!) get a quote for an entire new bowthruster trunk assembly. And, I’m open to suggestions!  Since I’m casting off tomorrow for Alaska I will operate as is for now. All the Best to the Group & thanks for your input,

Jim

SM384 Sirena Azul

Seattle




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
 

I think Bill has some good advice there. After my experience I will test periodically. Plus I have a Maretron temperature module on my N2K system with a spare thermocouple input, and I am going to monitor the temperature of the battery compartment itself. Some have suggested that the fact that I am on the hard could have bumped up the temp. I believe that. My solar controller does monitor but only on the negative terminal. Who knows if it was reading correctly.
On another note, I just got my first estimate to fix all the damaged woodwork. All I can say is ouch. The electrical repairs should be pretty simple but I suspect quite expensive. Still waiting for insurance approval to start repairs.
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Sunday, June 26, 2016 10:14 AM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Jamie,
If you load-test (current CCA) and test for internal shorts before a passage, you should not worry about a major failure as you had. I have been testing batteries about every 3 months for at least 6 years. They fail one at a time. I did have the crappy Varta batteries fail one after another totaling 6 in two months before I could replace them. All you have to do is rearrange and disconnect the failing batteries from the bank in pairs. They are wired in series in pairs to the bank terminals. What this will cause you to do is charge more often. And if you want your battery monitor to report the correct state of remaining power, you have to change the total amps which is programmed into that monitor.
The only thing(s) that you need to do is monitor for too many amps going into the battery bank for too long (using your battery monitor), or monitor for battery compartment temperature...or both. I do both. I installed a simple two zone digital temperature device with an alarm. I think it cost me $15 in eBay. If I was doing it over, I might buy a better one, but this cheap China made device has worked flawlessly for at least three years.
After a little time you will love the simple genius of the Amel SM2k and 54 battery bank design.
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Jun 26, 2016 8:53 AM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Thanks James, I suspect you are right about the bugs getting worked out of new brands. I believe Lifelines are made by the Concorde Battery Co, who as I understand makes batteries for the solar power industry. I think I will go with new Lifeline 31-XTs.
I think Bill said it best - when you are cruising 4 years or so is probably a good age to seriously think of replacing. I just cannot imagine what I would have done if my batteries had failed in the middle of the ocean - not to mention the cost of replacing in some remote port. Not that replacing my 13 batteries is going to be cheap!
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:40 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Jamie,
   The Lifeline batteries referred to in my previous post were installed just before the Millenium Odyssey so it could be that the bugs have been worked out by now, I have not kept up with.  I can tell you that on the course of the two year Circumnavigation that most or all of the Lifelines failed.  My customer was a bit hard on them with lots of 50 percent discharges..sometimes lower.  But he also did the same with the Sonennchein Prevailers and they survived.  I don't have the numbers in front of me but I seem to recall that the amp hours were about 10 percent less for the gels at the time. With the lack of self discharge and from them being more tolerant of deep discharges I think that the amp gap even when new is not that great in practice.  I did an amp draw down test on the removed gels after 7 plus years and they were still within 5 percent of rated.  I should do another somtime to how much is left at 20 years but I can tell you that I am still using one of these batteries in my Loki and it seems pretty healthy. These batteries were being used a lot in solar applications due to the long life.  I am not a battery expert but there seems to be a relationship between battery chemistries in that reduced gassing and low self discharge rates lead to lower capacity but long life and good reliability.  I know that these gels use a different electrolyte than regular wet cell and AGM's.  

Best,
James

Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 8:57 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 
James, I am surprised that your customer experienced failures with his new Lifeline batteries. I was told they were the best by some of the electrical guys here in Annapolis, but now I am questioning that recommendation. I think maybe I will check out your suggestions. Do you know what model Lifeline went bad?
Wow, yours are 20 years old and my Initimidators failed at 4 years. I would have thought I would get at least 5 or 6, but I do not know the history of my batteries, as they came with the boat.
Thanks for the advice.
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Sunday, June 26, 2016 12:45 AM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I had a customer that was leaving on a Circumnavigation and was concerned about the age (7+ years old at the time) of his perfectly performing Sonnechien Dry Fit German Gel batteries,  5- x 8D so a big bank.  He installed 5 x 8D Lifeline AGM’s and experienced numerous battery failures on the trip starting only 6 months out in the Pacific after departure requiring very expensive air shipments.  I am still using the 5 Sonneschien Dry Fit batteries removed from the boat, 0 failures so far.  We reinstalled the same upon his return to the US and had no further problems up until the time he sold the boat about 8 years later which puts my batteries over 20 years old.  Fort Lauderdale Battery used to sell the Sonneschien and still had some good specimens of this same type the last time that I talked to them which had lasted as long plus a lot more experience than I if you want to inquire. ( I have no connection with this firm other than battery purchases)   The dry fit batteries have been replaced by an Exide "Traction” Gel Battery which has the same case and supposed to be essentially the same battery.  No problems so far but my experience so far is limited to 3 years with these batteries as they are relatively new.   The Dry Fits were touted as being having very low gassing btw.  Despite some abuse, I have never seen any of these swell, crack or ever leak anything.

Glad to hear that the damage is less than you originally thought.  Best of luck in making a good decision with preventing future problems

James

SV Sueno Amel Maramu 220
On Jun 25, 2016, at 12:24 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks everyone for the support and suggestions. We are cleaning things up and it may not be as bad as I originally thought. Somehow one or two of the batteries failed and caused the explosion. I guess my lessons learned is to suspect batteries when they get close to the end of life. I did not know that.
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:18 PM, "seafeverofcuan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Dear Jamie,
                  I had thermal runaway on a set of Vetus wet cell batteries that were eighteen months old.
The incident happened at the top of the Sea of Cortez under sail, there was no explosion, I was alerted to it by the smell.
The battery box was hot to touch and I was terrified to open it. The inside was covered in battery acid, all the cables were destroyed, four batteries were cracked, eight batteries had buckled cases.
Four were serviceable which I hooked together to allow me to return to Mazatlan for repairs.
It was a harrowing experience as the temperatures of each battery kept rising for hours as they sat overnight on a dock.
I have met a number of people with variations of the same theme.
Good luck with your new engine.
Fair Winds
Trevor Lusty
Former owner of Seafever
SM 425
Ire land












Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

It is easy to forget that batteries contain a HUGE amount of energy because we usually see it released a little at a time under careful control.  Being a bit paranoid about battery condition is a good thing, and Bill R’s description of what to do is a excellent approach.

Just for some round numbers, I put my engineering nerd hat on and sat down to calculate how much energy really is stored in a Amel battery bank.  I knew the number was going to be large, but the magnitude surprised me...

420 Amp-hours X 24 Volts = 10,080 Watt-hours

10,080 Watt-hours = 32,000,000 Joules

1 gram of TNT releases about 4000 joules when it explodes.

So one Amel battery bank contains as much energy as (very roughly) 8 kg of TNT!

Of course even a worst case battery scenario can't release all that energy anywhere near fast as detonating TNT, but still….

Respect the battery!

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Highlands, New Jersey



On Jun 26, 2016, at 12:39, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,

Yes...according to the specs from the manufacturer. This test only returns a good or bad reading...red or green light. If you want more precise information there are digital testers that give you more info.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
  Your proactive battery testing to catch a bad battery before it fails sounds like a good idea to me.  With regards to the aforementioned tester detecting internal shorts is the instrument measuring the batteries internal resistance?  

James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> 
Date: 06-26-2016 9:52 AM (GMT-04:00) 
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion 


 

James,

Buy a digital battery tester like the one any battery supplier has and most automotive shops have that test and printout the status, testing volts, charge state, current CCA, and test for internal shorts.

Or if you don't need a printout, buy the Solar brand Chinese knock-off. That is what I have and I test all batteries about every 3 months. 

https://www.amazon.com/BA9-40-1200-Digital-Battery-System/dp/B00IZFNJ6Y

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:43 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
  How does one test for internal shorts by doing a load test?  Good information.
James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> 
Date: 06-26-2016 9:31 AM (GMT-04:00) 
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion 


 

Batteries, anchors, and other boat stuff that we all have firm options on...but for this posting I will stick to batteries. 

In my experience one person's experience with a single product, is only misleading and proves nothing, especially batteries where there are at least 10 variables in addition to make and model.

For instance, I met a British guy in Turkey at a marina who was changing out his batteries. He had 14 years on them. He bought these batteries when he bought his boat, which was a Beneteau coming out of charter in Greece. He sailed to Marmaris Turkey where he lived aboard for 14 years. At least once a year, he would unplug and motor somewhere for the day.

I think that regardless what brand battery you buy, the most you can hope for is 4 years, if you actually are cruising. 

BTW, the absolute worst brand that I bought was Varta  freedom style calcium batteries. I bought 13 in Greece. They started failing 3 months later with internal shorts. They failed one at a time. Had I not supervised them, I had about 8 opportunities for a major problem like Phantom's battery problem. Those 13 batteries were each discarded in 12 months. Johnson Controls UK, the company that manufactures Varta chose to do nothing, telling me to take up the issue with the Greek who also chose to do nothing. At the time that I bought Varta I was told that Varta bought the Delphi Battery plant in France where the original Amel batteries were made. My single experience shouldn't eliminate Varta from your choices, but it does for me. In my experience the best performing batteries have been the original Amel-installed Delphi Freedom batteries and the same battery made by the Delphi licensee in Istanbul, Turkey. Sadly, I do not believe those are available in Turkey anymore, and Delphi France is just a brand made by someone else since the GM liquidation of Delphi. 

Be sure to load test and test for shorts any new batteries when they are delivered. The battery supplier should do this while you watch and should give you a printout for each battery. Or buy the digital battery tester and do it yourself, as I do. Out of 12 delivered, I had 2 batteries fail the internal short test. 

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail









Re: bow thruster service. Problem

Jim Anderson
 

Thank you everyone for your comments and interest. Here is my bowthruster in-the-water re-installation report: There was a little green slimy growth inside the trunk which I had my diver clean. It wasn’t bad and was not enough to be a problem. No barnacles or crustations. Upon re-installation (with a diver standing by) the shaft jammed at the same place it did on the way down, which is with about 4” of shaft above the interior seal. It was not possible to pull up hard enough to pull the shaft further up.  All it took was a gentle push from the diver below to overcome the resistance and it came up.  The thruster now operates fine however when retracting, at that exact 4” spot you can hear the retraction motor load up slightly for less than one second and you can see an ever-so-slight pause or “hiccup” in the upward movement of the shaft.  During extension the shaft hangs up in the same place on the way down but it is more pronounced. The extension/retraction motor doesn’t load up because the heavy weight of the bowthruster motor is enough to overcome the resistance. (I made a 0:27 low-resolution/small file size video but cannot easily figure out how to upload it here. I will if I can figure out ho to.)  My best guess is that the shaft is out-of-round at the point where it hangs up. For the time being my plan is to only service the bowthruster when the boat is out of the water, and at that time to see if a machine shop can precisely measure the top of the shaft and mill it back to the correct specification then. I will also first consult with Amel and ask for their suggestions and (ugh!) get a quote for an entire new bowthruster trunk assembly. And, I’m open to suggestions!  Since I’m casting off tomorrow for Alaska I will operate as is for now. All the Best to the Group & thanks for your input,

Jim

SM384 Sirena Azul

Seattle


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Mark Erdos
 

We currently have 9 Optima Blue Top 8052-161 D31M batteries. 8 for the house bank and 1 start battery.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 12:14 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 

 

Hello Mark, 


What brand batteries and type do you have?  25% failure rate!  Ouch.  Very sorry to hear, but glad your diligence in monitoring got you positive results.

 

Cheerio,

 

Peregrinus

SM2K #350 (2002)

At anchor, Pampelonne beach (St Tropez)

 


---In amelyachtowners@..., <mcerdos@...> wrote :

I second Bill’s recommendation for this item and regular testing of the batteries. Because of his suggestion, I purchased a tester prior to departing on our cruise adventure. In the Bahamas a couple of months ago, I identified two bad batteries in our group of eight and was able to disconnect them. I re-arranged the 4 pairs of two to 3 pairs of two and reprogrammed the battery monitor for the 25% reduction of amp-hours. We continued our season the remaining 6 batteries. Now that we are back in an area of plenty, we can replace the bad batteries. Had I not checked or had the means to check, the bad batteries would certainly have damaged the remaining batteries in the group and caused us an unplanned expense, or worse.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:53 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 

 

James,

Buy a digital battery tester like the one any battery supplier has and most automotive shops have that test and printout the status, testing volts, charge state, current CCA, and test for internal shorts.

Or if you don't need a printout, buy the Solar brand Chinese knock-off. That is what I have and I test all batteries about every 3 months.

https://www.amazon.com/BA9-40-1200-Digital-Battery-System/dp/B00IZFNJ6Y

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:43 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

  How does one test for internal shorts by doing a load test?  Good information.

James

 

 

Sent from Samsung Mobile




-------- Original message --------

From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

Batteries, anchors, and other boat stuff that we all have firm options on...but for this posting I will stick to batteries.

In my experience one person's experience with a single product, is only misleading and proves nothing, especially batteries where there are at least 10 variables in addition to make and model.

For instance, I met a British guy in Turkey at a marina who was changing out his batteries. He had 14 years on them. He bought these batteries when he bought his boat, which was a Beneteau coming out of charter in Greece. He sailed to Marmaris Turkey where he lived aboard for 14 years. At least once a year, he would unplug and motor somewhere for the day.

I think that regardless what brand battery you buy, the most you can hope for is 4 years, if you actually are cruising.

BTW, the absolute worst brand that I bought was Varta  freedom style calcium batteries. I bought 13 in Greece. They started failing 3 months later with internal shorts. They failed one at a time. Had I not supervised them, I had about 8 opportunities for a major problem like Phantom's battery problem. Those 13 batteries were each discarded in 12 months. Johnson Controls UK, the company that manufactures Varta chose to do nothing, telling me to take up the issue with the Greek who also chose to do nothing. At the time that I bought Varta I was told that Varta bought the Delphi Battery plant in France where the original Amel batteries were made. My single experience shouldn't eliminate Varta from your choices, but it does for me. In my experience the best performing batteries have been the original Amel-installed Delphi Freedom batteries and the same battery made by the Delphi licensee in Istanbul, Turkey. Sadly, I do not believe those are available in Turkey anymore, and Delphi France is just a brand made by someone else since the GM liquidation of Delphi.

Be sure to load test and test for shorts any new batteries when they are delivered. The battery supplier should do this while you watch and should give you a printout for each battery. Or buy the digital battery tester and do it yourself, as I do. Out of 12 delivered, I had 2 batteries fail the internal short test.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

I will be on a passage, so probably not respond for 48 hours or so.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 5:40 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Oh, yes I checked again and the charger is set for lead acid batteries.  I'll do the CCA test again after a 2-hour wait.
Kent


On Jun 26, 2016, at 1:09 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Why did you measure voltage in pairs? 

You said, "...checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V."

Although it probably has nothing to do with your problem, you did not check them individually if the voltage was 25.89.

You did not mention any correction for temperature. Did your hydrometer have a built in thermometer to correct the reading to 80 degrees F? However, this would not be significant with your readings because you are probably at about 90 degrees and the correction to 80 degrees would only correct the 1.150 to 1.154.

It sounds like your 1 month old batteries are acting like they are at end of life.

Is the Charles 60 selector switch set for lead acid?

When you used the SOLAR battery tester, did you actually check each battery individually and with the battery totally disconnected from the bank, both positive and negative? if not, totally disconnect a pair of batteries at a time. Let them rest for at least 30 minutes (2 hours may be better), then test each one. Then do the next pair until you have done all 4 pairs.

Bill
BeBe 387




 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi again cousins,
I finally got a hygrometer to check specific gravity in my batteries. I couldn't find one in Bonaire, and after several tries finally found one in Curaçao....crazy.

I am at the dock now and on shore power. Here's what I did:
I let the battery bank get down to 24.1 V, turned on the Charles 60 amp smart charger and fully charged the batteries. Initially it put 58 A into the battery bank but within 30 minutes it was down to 35 A. After two hours it was down to less than 10 A. I left the charger on until the next day, it was at float voltage of the 26.5 V, one amp was going into the battery bank.

I checked voltage of the battery bank after letting two fridges run for 10 minutes, then turning off all 24 V equipment. The bank voltage was 25.8 V. I then disconnected all batteries from each other, and checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V +/- 0.04V. Every thing seems appropriate at this point, am I wrong about that?

I then checked specific gravity of all cells in all batteries. Each cell was at 1150 +/- 20. The hygrometer scale says they should be at >1260.

Soooo...is it likely that all batteries are bad to the exact same degree???? That seems unlikely unless they all came from the same run, and were filled with a bad electrolyte solution. Even then, for the first few weeks they were lasting almost 24 hours before they were down to a little above 24V, so that doesn't seem likely.
Is it likely that the hygrometer is bad? It's such a simple tool that doesn't seem likely either. There's no liquid in the float.

My battery monitor agrees with my multitester when reading bank voltage and amperage in the primary cables.

I'm stumped.

Any suggestions welcome.

Masha Danki from Curaçao.
Kent
SM243
Kristy




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

karkauai
 

Oh, yes I checked again and the charger is set for lead acid batteries.  I'll do the CCA test again after a 2-hour wait.
Kent


On Jun 26, 2016, at 1:09 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Why did you measure voltage in pairs? 

You said, "...checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V."

Although it probably has nothing to do with your problem, you did not check them individually if the voltage was 25.89.

You did not mention any correction for temperature. Did your hydrometer have a built in thermometer to correct the reading to 80 degrees F? However, this would not be significant with your readings because you are probably at about 90 degrees and the correction to 80 degrees would only correct the 1.150 to 1.154.

It sounds like your 1 month old batteries are acting like they are at end of life.

Is the Charles 60 selector switch set for lead acid?

When you used the SOLAR battery tester, did you actually check each battery individually and with the battery totally disconnected from the bank, both positive and negative? if not, totally disconnect a pair of batteries at a time. Let them rest for at least 30 minutes (2 hours may be better), then test each one. Then do the next pair until you have done all 4 pairs.

Bill
BeBe 387




 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi again cousins,
I finally got a hygrometer to check specific gravity in my batteries. I couldn't find one in Bonaire, and after several tries finally found one in Curaçao....crazy.

I am at the dock now and on shore power. Here's what I did:
I let the battery bank get down to 24.1 V, turned on the Charles 60 amp smart charger and fully charged the batteries. Initially it put 58 A into the battery bank but within 30 minutes it was down to 35 A. After two hours it was down to less than 10 A. I left the charger on until the next day, it was at float voltage of the 26.5 V, one amp was going into the battery bank.

I checked voltage of the battery bank after letting two fridges run for 10 minutes, then turning off all 24 V equipment. The bank voltage was 25.8 V. I then disconnected all batteries from each other, and checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V +/- 0.04V. Every thing seems appropriate at this point, am I wrong about that?

I then checked specific gravity of all cells in all batteries. Each cell was at 1150 +/- 20. The hygrometer scale says they should be at >1260.

Soooo...is it likely that all batteries are bad to the exact same degree???? That seems unlikely unless they all came from the same run, and were filled with a bad electrolyte solution. Even then, for the first few weeks they were lasting almost 24 hours before they were down to a little above 24V, so that doesn't seem likely.
Is it likely that the hygrometer is bad? It's such a simple tool that doesn't seem likely either. There's no liquid in the float.

My battery monitor agrees with my multitester when reading bank voltage and amperage in the primary cables.

I'm stumped.

Any suggestions welcome.

Masha Danki from Curaçao.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

karkauai
 

Hi Bill,
Sorry, the individual batteries read 12.89V +/- 0.04V, not 25.89.

The hygrometer does not have a temperature correction.  It's just a simple float.  I had the AC running all night, so battery temp was probably closer to 75dF.

Yes, I did completely disconnect all batteries when I did the CCA tests...and all showed greater than the rated 600CCA.  Seems odd that CCA reads better than advertised and SG shows bad batteries.

I'm in touch with both the Interstate battery people and the Charles charger folks.  It'll be interesting to see what they say.

Thanks again,
Kent




On Jun 26, 2016, at 1:09 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Why did you measure voltage in pairs? 

You said, "...checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V."

Although it probably has nothing to do with your problem, you did not check them individually if the voltage was 25.89.

You did not mention any correction for temperature. Did your hydrometer have a built in thermometer to correct the reading to 80 degrees F? However, this would not be significant with your readings because you are probably at about 90 degrees and the correction to 80 degrees would only correct the 1.150 to 1.154.

It sounds like your 1 month old batteries are acting like they are at end of life.

Is the Charles 60 selector switch set for lead acid?

When you used the SOLAR battery tester, did you actually check each battery individually and with the battery totally disconnected from the bank, both positive and negative? if not, totally disconnect a pair of batteries at a time. Let them rest for at least 30 minutes (2 hours may be better), then test each one. Then do the next pair until you have done all 4 pairs.

Bill
BeBe 387




 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi again cousins,
I finally got a hygrometer to check specific gravity in my batteries. I couldn't find one in Bonaire, and after several tries finally found one in Curaçao....crazy.

I am at the dock now and on shore power. Here's what I did:
I let the battery bank get down to 24.1 V, turned on the Charles 60 amp smart charger and fully charged the batteries. Initially it put 58 A into the battery bank but within 30 minutes it was down to 35 A. After two hours it was down to less than 10 A. I left the charger on until the next day, it was at float voltage of the 26.5 V, one amp was going into the battery bank.

I checked voltage of the battery bank after letting two fridges run for 10 minutes, then turning off all 24 V equipment. The bank voltage was 25.8 V. I then disconnected all batteries from each other, and checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V +/- 0.04V. Every thing seems appropriate at this point, am I wrong about that?

I then checked specific gravity of all cells in all batteries. Each cell was at 1150 +/- 20. The hygrometer scale says they should be at >1260.

Soooo...is it likely that all batteries are bad to the exact same degree???? That seems unlikely unless they all came from the same run, and were filled with a bad electrolyte solution. Even then, for the first few weeks they were lasting almost 24 hours before they were down to a little above 24V, so that doesn't seem likely.
Is it likely that the hygrometer is bad? It's such a simple tool that doesn't seem likely either. There's no liquid in the float.

My battery monitor agrees with my multitester when reading bank voltage and amperage in the primary cables.

I'm stumped.

Any suggestions welcome.

Masha Danki from Curaçao.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

Why did you measure voltage in pairs? 

You said, "...checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V."

Although it probably has nothing to do with your problem, you did not check them individually if the voltage was 25.89.

You did not mention any correction for temperature. Did your hydrometer have a built in thermometer to correct the reading to 80 degrees F? However, this would not be significant with your readings because you are probably at about 90 degrees and the correction to 80 degrees would only correct the 1.150 to 1.154.

It sounds like your 1 month old batteries are acting like they are at end of life.

Is the Charles 60 selector switch set for lead acid?

When you used the SOLAR battery tester, did you actually check each battery individually and with the battery totally disconnected from the bank, both positive and negative? if not, totally disconnect a pair of batteries at a time. Let them rest for at least 30 minutes (2 hours may be better), then test each one. Then do the next pair until you have done all 4 pairs.

Bill
BeBe 387




 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 4:40 PM, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi again cousins,
I finally got a hygrometer to check specific gravity in my batteries. I couldn't find one in Bonaire, and after several tries finally found one in Curaçao....crazy.

I am at the dock now and on shore power. Here's what I did:
I let the battery bank get down to 24.1 V, turned on the Charles 60 amp smart charger and fully charged the batteries. Initially it put 58 A into the battery bank but within 30 minutes it was down to 35 A. After two hours it was down to less than 10 A. I left the charger on until the next day, it was at float voltage of the 26.5 V, one amp was going into the battery bank.

I checked voltage of the battery bank after letting two fridges run for 10 minutes, then turning off all 24 V equipment. The bank voltage was 25.8 V. I then disconnected all batteries from each other, and checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V +/- 0.04V. Every thing seems appropriate at this point, am I wrong about that?

I then checked specific gravity of all cells in all batteries. Each cell was at 1150 +/- 20. The hygrometer scale says they should be at >1260.

Soooo...is it likely that all batteries are bad to the exact same degree???? That seems unlikely unless they all came from the same run, and were filled with a bad electrolyte solution. Even then, for the first few weeks they were lasting almost 24 hours before they were down to a little above 24V, so that doesn't seem likely.
Is it likely that the hygrometer is bad? It's such a simple tool that doesn't seem likely either. There's no liquid in the float.

My battery monitor agrees with my multitester when reading bank voltage and amperage in the primary cables.

I'm stumped.

Any suggestions welcome.

Masha Danki from Curaçao.
Kent
SM243
Kristy



Re: Batteries

karkauai
 

Hi again cousins,
I finally got a hygrometer to check specific gravity in my batteries. I couldn't find one in Bonaire, and after several tries finally found one in Curaçao....crazy.

I am at the dock now and on shore power. Here's what I did:
I let the battery bank get down to 24.1 V, turned on the Charles 60 amp smart charger and fully charged the batteries. Initially it put 58 A into the battery bank but within 30 minutes it was down to 35 A. After two hours it was down to less than 10 A. I left the charger on until the next day, it was at float voltage of the 26.5 V, one amp was going into the battery bank.

I checked voltage of the battery bank after letting two fridges run for 10 minutes, then turning off all 24 V equipment. The bank voltage was 25.8 V. I then disconnected all batteries from each other, and checked the individual voltage on each battery. All batteries were at 25.89 V +/- 0.04V. Every thing seems appropriate at this point, am I wrong about that?

I then checked specific gravity of all cells in all batteries. Each cell was at 1150 +/- 20. The hygrometer scale says they should be at >1260.

Soooo...is it likely that all batteries are bad to the exact same degree???? That seems unlikely unless they all came from the same run, and were filled with a bad electrolyte solution. Even then, for the first few weeks they were lasting almost 24 hours before they were down to a little above 24V, so that doesn't seem likely.
Is it likely that the hygrometer is bad? It's such a simple tool that doesn't seem likely either. There's no liquid in the float.

My battery monitor agrees with my multitester when reading bank voltage and amperage in the primary cables.

I'm stumped.

Any suggestions welcome.

Masha Danki from Curaçao.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

James,

Yes...according to the specs from the manufacturer. This test only returns a good or bad reading...red or green light. If you want more precise information there are digital testers that give you more info.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
  Your proactive battery testing to catch a bad battery before it fails sounds like a good idea to me.  With regards to the aforementioned tester detecting internal shorts is the instrument measuring the batteries internal resistance?  

James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:52 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

James,

Buy a digital battery tester like the one any battery supplier has and most automotive shops have that test and printout the status, testing volts, charge state, current CCA, and test for internal shorts.

Or if you don't need a printout, buy the Solar brand Chinese knock-off. That is what I have and I test all batteries about every 3 months.

https://www.amazon.com/BA9-40-1200-Digital-Battery-System/dp/B00IZFNJ6Y

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:43 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
  How does one test for internal shorts by doing a load test?  Good information.
James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

Batteries, anchors, and other boat stuff that we all have firm options on...but for this posting I will stick to batteries.

In my experience one person's experience with a single product, is only misleading and proves nothing, especially batteries where there are at least 10 variables in addition to make and model.

For instance, I met a British guy in Turkey at a marina who was changing out his batteries. He had 14 years on them. He bought these batteries when he bought his boat, which was a Beneteau coming out of charter in Greece. He sailed to Marmaris Turkey where he lived aboard for 14 years. At least once a year, he would unplug and motor somewhere for the day.

I think that regardless what brand battery you buy, the most you can hope for is 4 years, if you actually are cruising.

BTW, the absolute worst brand that I bought was Varta  freedom style calcium batteries. I bought 13 in Greece. They started failing 3 months later with internal shorts. They failed one at a time. Had I not supervised them, I had about 8 opportunities for a major problem like Phantom's battery problem. Those 13 batteries were each discarded in 12 months. Johnson Controls UK, the company that manufactures Varta chose to do nothing, telling me to take up the issue with the Greek who also chose to do nothing. At the time that I bought Varta I was told that Varta bought the Delphi Battery plant in France where the original Amel batteries were made. My single experience shouldn't eliminate Varta from your choices, but it does for me. In my experience the best performing batteries have been the original Amel-installed Delphi Freedom batteries and the same battery made by the Delphi licensee in Istanbul, Turkey. Sadly, I do not believe those are available in Turkey anymore, and Delphi France is just a brand made by someone else since the GM liquidation of Delphi.

Be sure to load test and test for shorts any new batteries when they are delivered. The battery supplier should do this while you watch and should give you a printout for each battery. Or buy the digital battery tester and do it yourself, as I do. Out of 12 delivered, I had 2 batteries fail the internal short test.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 24V Watermaker

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

You could simply change out the 220V motor for a 24 volt one.

I say “simply” but of course there would be a fair amount of mechanical and electrical engineering involved, although the motor cost would be rather small.   

Bill Kinney
SM #160 Harmonie
Highlands, New Jersey

On Jun 23, 2016, at 11:29, rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

HI  Barry,

Regarding your comment when you said  "This does not make sense!  Why would you deplete your stored energy in your batteries to run a 24 volt motor on your water maker."  The answer is that I would not.  Please re-read my post where I say " It would be great to be able to make water while motoring or with solar"  In neither situation would my batteries necessarily be depleted.  I have considerable excess solar capacity during the day.  There is an excess of amp hours available because my solar system commonly tops up my house bank (SM Redline) by about noon.  Following this, measured unused capacity from the solar panels is substantial--equaling or exceeding 10 amps at 27+V (my solar capacity is pretty high) .   Also, like most Amel owners I have a high capacity (stock) alternator on my engine.  Its capacity is underutilized when motoring for extended periods because, again, the batteries are topped off drawing only a few amps and only 10 amps or so are used for refridge, autopilot and LED lighting, etc.  No question, the 220 AC Dessalator is very good, and you are quite right, I would not trade it for the 24V only system that you are complaining about, but the capacity to make fresh water with both 24 and 220 is desirable for some of us and need not be at the expense of depleting batteries (and running the generator to charge them back up).
Cheers,
Bob, KAIMI SM429
At Anchor, Gocek Turkey--Haven't run my generator for 2 weeks  

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Hello Mark, 

What brand batteries and type do you have?  25% failure rate!  Ouch.  Very sorry to hear, but glad your diligence in monitoring got you positive results.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K #350 (2002)
At anchor, Pampelonne beach (St Tropez)


---In amelyachtowners@..., <mcerdos@...> wrote :

I second Bill’s recommendation for this item and regular testing of the batteries. Because of his suggestion, I purchased a tester prior to departing on our cruise adventure. In the Bahamas a couple of months ago, I identified two bad batteries in our group of eight and was able to disconnect them. I re-arranged the 4 pairs of two to 3 pairs of two and reprogrammed the battery monitor for the 25% reduction of amp-hours. We continued our season the remaining 6 batteries. Now that we are back in an area of plenty, we can replace the bad batteries. Had I not checked or had the means to check, the bad batteries would certainly have damaged the remaining batteries in the group and caused us an unplanned expense, or worse.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:53 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 

 

James,

Buy a digital battery tester like the one any battery supplier has and most automotive shops have that test and printout the status, testing volts, charge state, current CCA, and test for internal shorts.

Or if you don't need a printout, buy the Solar brand Chinese knock-off. That is what I have and I test all batteries about every 3 months.

https://www.amazon.com/BA9-40-1200-Digital-Battery-System/dp/B00IZFNJ6Y

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:43 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

  How does one test for internal shorts by doing a load test?  Good information.

James

 

 

Sent from Samsung Mobile




-------- Original message --------

From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

Batteries, anchors, and other boat stuff that we all have firm options on...but for this posting I will stick to batteries.

In my experience one person's experience with a single product, is only misleading and proves nothing, especially batteries where there are at least 10 variables in addition to make and model.

For instance, I met a British guy in Turkey at a marina who was changing out his batteries. He had 14 years on them. He bought these batteries when he bought his boat, which was a Beneteau coming out of charter in Greece. He sailed to Marmaris Turkey where he lived aboard for 14 years. At least once a year, he would unplug and motor somewhere for the day.

I think that regardless what brand battery you buy, the most you can hope for is 4 years, if you actually are cruising.

BTW, the absolute worst brand that I bought was Varta  freedom style calcium batteries. I bought 13 in Greece. They started failing 3 months later with internal shorts. They failed one at a time. Had I not supervised them, I had about 8 opportunities for a major problem like Phantom's battery problem. Those 13 batteries were each discarded in 12 months. Johnson Controls UK, the company that manufactures Varta chose to do nothing, telling me to take up the issue with the Greek who also chose to do nothing. At the time that I bought Varta I was told that Varta bought the Delphi Battery plant in France where the original Amel batteries were made. My single experience shouldn't eliminate Varta from your choices, but it does for me. In my experience the best performing batteries have been the original Amel-installed Delphi Freedom batteries and the same battery made by the Delphi licensee in Istanbul, Turkey. Sadly, I do not believe those are available in Turkey anymore, and Delphi France is just a brand made by someone else since the GM liquidation of Delphi.

Be sure to load test and test for shorts any new batteries when they are delivered. The battery supplier should do this while you watch and should give you a printout for each battery. Or buy the digital battery tester and do it yourself, as I do. Out of 12 delivered, I had 2 batteries fail the internal short test.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

James Alton
 

Bill,
  Your proactive battery testing to catch a bad battery before it fails sounds like a good idea to me.  With regards to the aforementioned tester detecting internal shorts is the instrument measuring the batteries internal resistance?  

James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:52 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

James,

Buy a digital battery tester like the one any battery supplier has and most automotive shops have that test and printout the status, testing volts, charge state, current CCA, and test for internal shorts.

Or if you don't need a printout, buy the Solar brand Chinese knock-off. That is what I have and I test all batteries about every 3 months.

https://www.amazon.com/BA9-40-1200-Digital-Battery-System/dp/B00IZFNJ6Y

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:43 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
  How does one test for internal shorts by doing a load test?  Good information.
James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

Batteries, anchors, and other boat stuff that we all have firm options on...but for this posting I will stick to batteries.

In my experience one person's experience with a single product, is only misleading and proves nothing, especially batteries where there are at least 10 variables in addition to make and model.

For instance, I met a British guy in Turkey at a marina who was changing out his batteries. He had 14 years on them. He bought these batteries when he bought his boat, which was a Beneteau coming out of charter in Greece. He sailed to Marmaris Turkey where he lived aboard for 14 years. At least once a year, he would unplug and motor somewhere for the day.

I think that regardless what brand battery you buy, the most you can hope for is 4 years, if you actually are cruising.

BTW, the absolute worst brand that I bought was Varta  freedom style calcium batteries. I bought 13 in Greece. They started failing 3 months later with internal shorts. They failed one at a time. Had I not supervised them, I had about 8 opportunities for a major problem like Phantom's battery problem. Those 13 batteries were each discarded in 12 months. Johnson Controls UK, the company that manufactures Varta chose to do nothing, telling me to take up the issue with the Greek who also chose to do nothing. At the time that I bought Varta I was told that Varta bought the Delphi Battery plant in France where the original Amel batteries were made. My single experience shouldn't eliminate Varta from your choices, but it does for me. In my experience the best performing batteries have been the original Amel-installed Delphi Freedom batteries and the same battery made by the Delphi licensee in Istanbul, Turkey. Sadly, I do not believe those are available in Turkey anymore, and Delphi France is just a brand made by someone else since the GM liquidation of Delphi.

Be sure to load test and test for shorts any new batteries when they are delivered. The battery supplier should do this while you watch and should give you a printout for each battery. Or buy the digital battery tester and do it yourself, as I do. Out of 12 delivered, I had 2 batteries fail the internal short test.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternator wiring Volve D3-110i

ya_fohi
 

Thanks Jamie. I thought I sent a reply yesterday with a photo pasted into the message but I now see that it did not send. I'll try see how this is done.
Cheers,
Paul


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Mark Erdos
 

I second Bill’s recommendation for this item and regular testing of the batteries. Because of his suggestion, I purchased a tester prior to departing on our cruise adventure. In the Bahamas a couple of months ago, I identified two bad batteries in our group of eight and was able to disconnect them. I re-arranged the 4 pairs of two to 3 pairs of two and reprogrammed the battery monitor for the 25% reduction of amp-hours. We continued our season the remaining 6 batteries. Now that we are back in an area of plenty, we can replace the bad batteries. Had I not checked or had the means to check, the bad batteries would certainly have damaged the remaining batteries in the group and caused us an unplanned expense, or worse.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:53 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

 

 

James,

Buy a digital battery tester like the one any battery supplier has and most automotive shops have that test and printout the status, testing volts, charge state, current CCA, and test for internal shorts.

Or if you don't need a printout, buy the Solar brand Chinese knock-off. That is what I have and I test all batteries about every 3 months.

https://www.amazon.com/BA9-40-1200-Digital-Battery-System/dp/B00IZFNJ6Y

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:43 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

  How does one test for internal shorts by doing a load test?  Good information.

James

 

 

Sent from Samsung Mobile




-------- Original message --------

From: "'Bill Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 9:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 

Batteries, anchors, and other boat stuff that we all have firm options on...but for this posting I will stick to batteries.

In my experience one person's experience with a single product, is only misleading and proves nothing, especially batteries where there are at least 10 variables in addition to make and model.

For instance, I met a British guy in Turkey at a marina who was changing out his batteries. He had 14 years on them. He bought these batteries when he bought his boat, which was a Beneteau coming out of charter in Greece. He sailed to Marmaris Turkey where he lived aboard for 14 years. At least once a year, he would unplug and motor somewhere for the day.

I think that regardless what brand battery you buy, the most you can hope for is 4 years, if you actually are cruising.

BTW, the absolute worst brand that I bought was Varta  freedom style calcium batteries. I bought 13 in Greece. They started failing 3 months later with internal shorts. They failed one at a time. Had I not supervised them, I had about 8 opportunities for a major problem like Phantom's battery problem. Those 13 batteries were each discarded in 12 months. Johnson Controls UK, the company that manufactures Varta chose to do nothing, telling me to take up the issue with the Greek who also chose to do nothing. At the time that I bought Varta I was told that Varta bought the Delphi Battery plant in France where the original Amel batteries were made. My single experience shouldn't eliminate Varta from your choices, but it does for me. In my experience the best performing batteries have been the original Amel-installed Delphi Freedom batteries and the same battery made by the Delphi licensee in Istanbul, Turkey. Sadly, I do not believe those are available in Turkey anymore, and Delphi France is just a brand made by someone else since the GM liquidation of Delphi.

Be sure to load test and test for shorts any new batteries when they are delivered. The battery supplier should do this while you watch and should give you a printout for each battery. Or buy the digital battery tester and do it yourself, as I do. Out of 12 delivered, I had 2 batteries fail the internal short test.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Jamie,

If you load-test (current CCA) and test for internal shorts before a passage, you should not worry about a major failure as you had. I have been testing batteries about every 3 months for at least 6 years. They fail one at a time. I did have the crappy Varta batteries fail one after another totaling 6 in two months before I could replace them. All you have to do is rearrange and disconnect the failing batteries from the bank in pairs. They are wired in series in pairs to the bank terminals. What this will cause you to do is charge more often. And if you want your battery monitor to report the correct state of remaining power, you have to change the total amps which is programmed into that monitor.

The only thing(s) that you need to do is monitor for too many amps going into the battery bank for too long (using your battery monitor), or monitor for battery compartment temperature...or both. I do both. I installed a simple two zone digital temperature device with an alarm. I think it cost me $15 in eBay. If I was doing it over, I might buy a better one, but this cheap China made device has worked flawlessly for at least three years.

After a little time you will love the simple genius of the Amel SM2k and 54 battery bank design.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Jun 26, 2016 8:53 AM, "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks James, I suspect you are right about the bugs getting worked out of new brands. I believe Lifelines are made by the Concorde Battery Co, who as I understand makes batteries for the solar power industry. I think I will go with new Lifeline 31-XTs.
I think Bill said it best - when you are cruising 4 years or so is probably a good age to seriously think of replacing. I just cannot imagine what I would have done if my batteries had failed in the middle of the ocean - not to mention the cost of replacing in some remote port. Not that replacing my 13 batteries is going to be cheap!
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:40 AM, "Lokiyawl2 lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Jamie,
   The Lifeline batteries referred to in my previous post were installed just before the Millenium Odyssey so it could be that the bugs have been worked out by now, I have not kept up with.  I can tell you that on the course of the two year Circumnavigation that most or all of the Lifelines failed.  My customer was a bit hard on them with lots of 50 percent discharges..sometimes lower.  But he also did the same with the Sonennchein Prevailers and they survived.  I don't have the numbers in front of me but I seem to recall that the amp hours were about 10 percent less for the gels at the time. With the lack of self discharge and from them being more tolerant of deep discharges I think that the amp gap even when new is not that great in practice.  I did an amp draw down test on the removed gels after 7 plus years and they were still within 5 percent of rated.  I should do another somtime to how much is left at 20 years but I can tell you that I am still using one of these batteries in my Loki and it seems pretty healthy. These batteries were being used a lot in solar applications due to the long life.  I am not a battery expert but there seems to be a relationship between battery chemistries in that reduced gassing and low self discharge rates lead to lower capacity but long life and good reliability.  I know that these gels use a different electrolyte than regular wet cell and AGM's.  

Best,
James

Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-26-2016 8:57 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Compartment Explosion


 
James, I am surprised that your customer experienced failures with his new Lifeline batteries. I was told they were the best by some of the electrical guys here in Annapolis, but now I am questioning that recommendation. I think maybe I will check out your suggestions. Do you know what model Lifeline went bad?
Wow, yours are 20 years old and my Initimidators failed at 4 years. I would have thought I would get at least 5 or 6, but I do not know the history of my batteries, as they came with the boat.
Thanks for the advice.
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Sunday, June 26, 2016 12:45 AM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I had a customer that was leaving on a Circumnavigation and was concerned about the age (7+ years old at the time) of his perfectly performing Sonnechien Dry Fit German Gel batteries,  5- x 8D so a big bank.  He installed 5 x 8D Lifeline AGM’s and experienced numerous battery failures on the trip starting only 6 months out in the Pacific after departure requiring very expensive air shipments.  I am still using the 5 Sonneschien Dry Fit batteries removed from the boat, 0 failures so far.  We reinstalled the same upon his return to the US and had no further problems up until the time he sold the boat about 8 years later which puts my batteries over 20 years old.  Fort Lauderdale Battery used to sell the Sonneschien and still had some good specimens of this same type the last time that I talked to them which had lasted as long plus a lot more experience than I if you want to inquire. ( I have no connection with this firm other than battery purchases)   The dry fit batteries have been replaced by an Exide "Traction” Gel Battery which has the same case and supposed to be essentially the same battery.  No problems so far but my experience so far is limited to 3 years with these batteries as they are relatively new.   The Dry Fits were touted as being having very low gassing btw.  Despite some abuse, I have never seen any of these swell, crack or ever leak anything.

Glad to hear that the damage is less than you originally thought.  Best of luck in making a good decision with preventing future problems

James

SV Sueno Amel Maramu 220
On Jun 25, 2016, at 12:24 PM, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks everyone for the support and suggestions. We are cleaning things up and it may not be as bad as I originally thought. Somehow one or two of the batteries failed and caused the explosion. I guess my lessons learned is to suspect batteries when they get close to the end of life. I did not know that.
Jamie
 
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044


On Friday, June 24, 2016 5:18 PM, "seafeverofcuan@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Dear Jamie,
                  I had thermal runaway on a set of Vetus wet cell batteries that were eighteen months old.
The incident happened at the top of the Sea of Cortez under sail, there was no explosion, I was alerted to it by the smell.
The battery box was hot to touch and I was terrified to open it. The inside was covered in battery acid, all the cables were destroyed, four batteries were cracked, eight batteries had buckled cases.
Four were serviceable which I hooked together to allow me to return to Mazatlan for repairs.
It was a harrowing experience as the temperatures of each battery kept rising for hours as they sat overnight on a dock.
I have met a number of people with variations of the same theme.
Good luck with your new engine.
Fair Winds
Trevor Lusty
Former owner of Seafever
SM 425
Ire land