Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] You can use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.

peacock@...
 

Hi Bill,
I'm still trying to understand this. You state "It would not be possible to draw more than 30 amps of 220 volt power into an Amel SM, with everything working normally. " 
Does that mean that if you use all 3 AC's, a charger, hot water, etc, that you cannot draw 30 amps?
I have, on occasion, felt the 250V cord and it was quite warm. 
The "skinny" 220V cord on my Amel is certainly easy to handle, compared to standard US 250V/50A cords. However, even if I were to replace the power cord with a US version, I believe the cord going from the stern locker to the engine compartment would still be capable of only safely handling 16A, as per Olivier's previous statement.
Thanks in advance,
Tom Peacock
SM #240 Aletes
Rock Hall, MD
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: You can NOT use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Excellent! Glad every body agree!

Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/29/16, kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: You can NOT use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 29, 2016, 2:17 PM


 









Hi Bill,
You are absolutely correct. I apologize !!!
I did not think of the 50 amp breaker at the
pedestal.
My next project is to ad a breaker near the pedestal
connection in my power cord.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM76 Kimberlite

-----
Original Message -----
From:
Date: Monday, August 29, 2016 3:15 pm
Subject: You can NOT use a 50 amp USA plug on a
30 amp cable.
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com,

>










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Re: You can NOT use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.

Eric Freedman
 


You can NOT use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.

Eric Freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Bill,

So in your case, the bottom position is 110 to 220 volt? Interesting.

Personally I like being connected through my 220 Volt shore cable, just have to be careful not to exceed the 16 Amp.
As Allan originally said, then confirm by Olivier, the 220 volt shore power is 16 Amp.
So still giving you the same as the 30 Amp in 110 Volt.
Why did they do it this way? May be was the standard in Europe at the time…

I think you are wise to shut down a system when you plan on using another one.
The Blue Sea AC Multimeter: Gary, Bill (BeBe), Kent, Eric and I am sure many more have it:
is a nice tool to have as well.
http://nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247.html

Interesting about the central vacuum system!

Have a great day! Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/29/16, william_maffei@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 29, 2016, 7:42 AM


 









Hey Alexander -
Your response sound pretty spot
on... There is one major thing but that might be the
difference with out boat systems setups.... The plug in the
engine room on my boat is currently in the bottom position
which is 110v to  220v "step up". So basically
everything you said is correct except my plug is located on
the bottom and I think that might be a difference in hull
numbers. 
Reading
everyone else responses... I get the impression that the way
I am running the boats systems are the best way to do so. If
no please correct me. One thing I do want to point out is
that I can run all my systems however I have to pick and
choose what I want to run at the same time. For example... I
can run 2 A/C systems at once but if I want to shower and
there is not hot water I need to turn one of the A/C units
off for 30 mins while I heat the water. I can probably run
more 220v systems then I want to but I choose to do it this
way to reduce stress on the 30amp service. Honestly, I have
no idea if it is necessary but it makes me feel better.
:) 
The fact that the
cord in the lazorrete only runs 16amps is completely
confusing to me. 

BTW the "central vacuum
system" is a vacuum canister located in the engine
room. There are then various (2) connections run forward and
aft to connect a hose to clean the boat. I am assuming Jorge
installed this system. Pretty cool. 
Please feel free to ask other
questions.
Bill
MaffeiSM #195It's all Good


Re: US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

william_maffei@...
 

Hey Alexander -

Your response sound pretty spot on... There is one major thing but that might be the difference with out boat systems setups.... The plug in the engine room on my boat is currently in the bottom position which is 110v to  220v "step up". So basically everything you said is correct except my plug is located on the bottom and I think that might be a difference in hull numbers. 

Reading everyone else responses... I get the impression that the way I am running the boats systems are the best way to do so. If no please correct me. One thing I do want to point out is that I can run all my systems however I have to pick and choose what I want to run at the same time. For example... I can run 2 A/C systems at once but if I want to shower and there is not hot water I need to turn one of the A/C units off for 30 mins while I heat the water. I can probably run more 220v systems then I want to but I choose to do it this way to reduce stress on the 30amp service. Honestly, I have no idea if it is necessary but it makes me feel better. :) 

The fact that the cord in the lazorrete only runs 16amps is completely confusing to me. 

BTW the "central vacuum system" is a vacuum canister located in the engine room. There are then various (2) connections run forward and aft to connect a hose to clean the boat. I am assuming Jorge installed this system. Pretty cool. 

Please feel free to ask other questions.

Bill Maffei
SM #195
It's all Good


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] You can use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Eric,

This gets so complex, it’s really hard to keep track of the many different scenarios that are possible when I am writing to be sure I am clear.

There are 2 kinds of incompatible 50 Amp plugs in marinas in the USA.  One is 50 Amp, 125 Volt, three wire. This is really just a beefed up version of the 30 Amp 125 volt plug and you can not get 220 out of it because it is single phase power.  This is the kind of plug I was talking about adapting “up” from a 30 amp plug to a 50 with a 30 amp cord.  As as been mentioned by others here is is possible to draw more than 30 Amps @125 Volts in an Amel SM, putting the cord at risk.

The OTHER type of 50 Amp plug in the USA is a 50 Amp 125/250 volt plug.  This is the four wire plug you describe.  It is two phase phase power and the 2 hot wires are at 250 volts to each other.   It would not be possible to draw more than 30 amps of 220 volt power into an Amel SM, with everything working normally. Certainly the circuit breaker on the boat would trip at 32 amps.  So the cord would be safe in all normal situations.  

BUT….if there was a short circuit anywhere between the dock supply box and the 32 Amp breaker on the boat your 30 Amp cord could draw up to 50 Amps before the circuit breaker on the dock popped and the cord would be at risk of catching fire.

Now, is this likely?  No, not at all.  A short circuit would most likely draw more than 50 Amps quickly enough to pop the supply breaker before the cord caught fire. Probably.  Most likely. Normally.  But if electrical circuits were designed only for normal operation, we wouldn’t need breakers at all, simple switches would suffice.

When you evaluate what I write about this, you should be aware that I have more concern here than most people do.  I have seen three boats catch fire from electrical faults, and I really do not ever want my boat to be one of them, so I tend to be very conservative (paranoid?) about circuit protection and wiring.

One additional note, just in case of confusion:  In the USA we describe our electrical service variously as 110 volt, 115 volt, 120 volt, and 125 volt.  And it is all the same.  Sigh. There are reasons for this, not good ones, but there are reasons!  I used the 125/250 volt convention in this note because it is how the standard marina plugs and outlets are labeled.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Block Island, RI
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Aug 29, 2016, at 04:33, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


There is not a problem using a 50 amp USA style 4 prong outlet with a 30 amp cord .
the only reason to use a 50 amp outlet is that by using the black and red leads from the pedestal you can get 220 volts directly on the boat.  The amperage that goes down the wire is not related to the size of the outlet just the load coming down the wire from the boat.
 
 
 
Fair Winds,
Eric,
SM 376 Kimberlite

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" 
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2016 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)
To: amelyachtowners@...

> Mike, 
> 
> Mostly right… with a few caveats...
> 
> First, plugging a 30 amp rated cord into a 50 amp outlet means 
> that the 30 amp cord is not adequately protected. To be sure, 
> people do this all the time, and almost all of the time, they 
> don’t have a problem But it is part of the reason that shore 
> power connections are such common sources of insurance claims.
> 
> A 30 Amp 110 Volt connection will not power EVERYTHING on a late 
> model Amel SM. I wasn’t really clear about what I meant. 30 
> Amps of 110V will let you run the basic features of the boat, 
> but 3 air conditioners, plus a water heater, plus a microwave 
> plus a toaster might be getting to the point you pop a 30 Amp 
> breaker. 16 Amps of 110V power really is not enough for an Amel 
> to support us in the lifestyle to which we are accustomed. 16 
> Amps of 220V power is about the same as a 30 Amp 110 Volt 
> supply. Good enough, with a just a bit of care.
> 
> Be sure that your 220 cable actually is rated for 30 (or 32) 
> amps. Some of them are only rated for 16 amps. You say a 
> “smaller wire” than the 30 Amp plug. That would be a key clue 
> that it might NOT be a 30 amp cord! 
> 
> The 16 Amp 220V cord is rated to supply about the same amount of 
> usable power as the 30 Amp 110 Volt cord. If you try to pull 30 
> or 32 amps through that thinner cord for any length of time, you 
> might be in for a very nasty surprise. It wouldn’t be long 
> before you melted or set the cord on fire, especially where it 
> was coiled in a bundle. That 32 Amp breaker in the boat is not 
> there to protect the supply cord. If you plug a 16 Amp cord into 
> a 16 Amp shore power supply the breaker in the supply pylon will 
> protect your cord. If you plug that same cord into a 32 Amp 
> supply, it is now unprotected.
> 
> 
> Bill Kinney
> SM #160, Harmonie
> Block Island, RI
> “Ships and men rot in port."
> http://fetchinketch.net 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 14:18, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... 
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hello Bill.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I must admit to not being a 100% sure that I have this right, 
> but so far, this is my understanding of our shore power system 
> as used here in the US. I look forward to others’ comments that 
> may enhance/clarify my understanding.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Aletes, SM#240, is configured to allow either 110V and 240V 
> shore power here in the US. The plug box on the engine room 
> forward bulkhead has 2 receptacles, one labeled 220 (or 240 as I 
> am working the labeling from memory) and the other I believe 
> 110/220 (also suspect labeling). We plug the male plug into the 
> appropriate receptacle for the shore power cord we are using. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The 110 comes aboard via a 30amp US configured power cord, 
> through the 32amp 110v breaker in the plug box to a 110 to 220v 
> step-up transformer back to the 110/220 receptacle in the plug 
> box. The 240 volt power cord is actually a smaller wire, in our 
> case probably the original European black wire and comes aboard 
> and then directly to the 220v receptacle. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The 220 v boat system is 30 amps max load (breaker on the 
> back/side of the 220v switch panel). However the 220v shoe power 
> cord which is sized for 30 amp has a 50 amp plug on the end at 
> the dock electrical pedestal so that it can access both hot legs 
> of the US 240v system. I suppose this is not the safest since 
> the shore power cord is the weak link between the 30 amp panel 
> breaker and the 50 amp pedestal breaker.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > End of the day, I believe 30 amp 110V gives you only ½ the 
> total POWER (watts) that 30 amp at 240v yields. Therefore I 
> don’t believe one could run all the equipment on the 220 volt 
> panel at the same time when plugged into 110V, but I haven’t 
> tested that. Also I believe our ONAN generator puts out 30 amp 
> at 220v as a reference.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Again, all this is from memory as I am not on the boat, and 
> therefore suspect, but it might get things going for you. It’s a 
> quite Sunday afternoon on land and it’s always nice to be 
> thinking about boaty stuff.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mike Ondra
> > 
> > Aletes SM#240
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: amelyachtowners@... 
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:12 PM
> > To: amelyachtowners@...
> > Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel 
> systems breakdown)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello everyone -
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I know this topic is somewhat (again) like beating a dead 
> horse however, I find that trying to search the forum for 
> answers is very difficult. I am currently running the 30amp cord 
> to my boat and in the last 1+ year I have had no issues running 
> all the systems on the boat via US power (2 phase). The only 
> things I cannot run are the microwave, water maker and central 
> vacuum systems (without running the genset). So I have this 
> 50amp cord sitting in my lazorette that I have never even 
> thought of using. Is it even possible to use this in the US? In 
> the past when I have plugged this in the breaker would trip 
> almost immediately. The shore power box in the engine room has a 
> 32amp breaker on it so it almost seems useless to me however, I 
> know Amel would not install this if that were the case. Can 
> anyone shed some light on my shore power configuration? I know, 
> I know this is a total Amel rookie question and I apologize but 
> it is easier to post a topic then search through the many posts 
> and narrow it down. My lack of knowledge in electrical systems 
> does not help me at all with this basic question and for that I 
> apologize again. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bill Maffei 
> > 
> > SM #195
> > 
> > It's all Good
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery transfer from engine room to passageway

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Leo

I think it is going to be a BIG work.
- making an acid proof box
- bringing hoses for ventilation from behind the Amel logo
- make electric wires going from the new location under the floor to engine room…

but on the bright side you will be able to put more batteries (I only have 8+1 while many have 12+1) and you will be able to put larger electric wire to support larger chargers.

Wish I could help more. If you need picture of the current installation, don’t hesitate.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/29/16, leopold.hauer@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery transfer from engine room to passageway
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 29, 2016, 5:02 AM


 









Hi everyone,
my SM # 69 is from 1992 and
still has the batteries in the engine room.
Since this  (in combination with most
of the lockers and the dive compressor being on the same
side) causes a visible disbalance. I am
thinking of transferring the batteries under the bed in the
passageway.
Has anyway ever done this?
Whoever has experience with such a transfer please give me
input!
LeoYin
YangSM 69
anchoring at Favignana,
Egidean Islands, Sicily










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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] alexandre-ac compressor timers

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Eric,

I know about the timers. And I thought I replied to that: in my case, I start them one at the time and wait/listen until the compressor is starting, then go to the next one.

Since I installed the Blue Sea multimeter, I have been been writing data for various 220 volt devices, which I will publish later.

For information here is the data regarding an air conditioning unit:

Genset was providing 248.5 Volt, no other device was connected (all other 220 Volt breakers were off).

My vessel owner manual announced 3.3 Amp + 2.2 Amp for the (Calpeda) Air Conditioning cooling pump
After starting it peak to 7.4 Amp
Then 6 Amp and slowly increased to 6.59 Amp and oscillate between 6.58 and 6.59 Amp.

I am yet to do a test with a 2nd unit running at the same time.

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/28/16, kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] alexandre-ac compressor timers
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2016, 5:48 PM


 









Alexandre,
if you turn on all 3 A/C units at once they will all
not start. In each unit in the control box with the
capacitors, there is an electronic timer with  adjustable
wheel in seconds . My aft cabin starts immediately, Main
cabin 15 seconds later and forward cabin 30 seconds after
the aft cabin.
The chances of them all starting again at once is
small. The fans do start as soon as the units are turned on.
they each draw 2-3 amps , you will then see the compressor
start about another 8 amps then the units drop down to about
4 amps each on high speed.
Fair Winds,
Eric
Sm376
 
 
 

888
----- Original
Message -----
From: "peacock@nhms.biz
[amelyachtowners]"
Date: Sunday,
August 28, 2016 3:21 pm
Subject: Re:
[Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections
(Amel systems breakdown)
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

> Well, I'm going to beat this dead
horse some more.
>
>
Yes, Olivier's excellent summary from August 18 should
be
> required reading by all.
> However, my biggest question is, besides
installing a
> multimeter as
Nikimat has, how else can we protect against a
> fire? A total of 16 amps, even at 220 V,
goes quickly. Pulling
> into port on a
hot day, turning on three AC units, with a
> charger trying to bring back a battery
bank that's half dead,
> may, I
suspect, add up to more than 16 amps. I'm not even
> talking about the microwave, dive
compressor, and other items.
> Have I
been living life dangerously?
>










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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Cleaning-Thanks Bill

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Great idea for the oil absorbed pads !!!

Thanks for sharing!

Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/28/16, kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Cleaning-Thanks Bill
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2016, 5:52 PM


 










Well today I bit the
bullet and started to clean the bilge. I wanted to thank
Bill for suggesting to use a shop vac. It saved me hours of
cleaning.
 
Just as an additional note , I found that the oil
absorb pads do a great job of cleaning up the hoses and grey
float tube that are  in the bilge.
Fair Winds,
Eric
Sm 376 Kimberlite










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Battery transfer from engine room to passageway

Leopold Hauer
 

Hi everyone,


my SM # 69 is from 1992 and still has the batteries in the engine room.

Since this  (in combination with most of the lockers and the dive compressor being on the same side) causes a visible disbalance.

 I am thinking of transferring the batteries under the bed in the passageway.


Has anyway ever done this? Whoever has experience with such a transfer please give me input!


Leo

Yin Yang

SM 69


anchoring at Favignana, Egidean Islands, Sicily



You can use a 50 amp USA plug on a 30 amp cable.

Eric Freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hurth Transmission

Conn Williamson <connwilliamson@...>
 

Joel, I thought I might check up on the cooling side as you mentioned the one with the cooler problem, and I don't have one.
I found a repair and spec manual on the net. It says the max hp for the 450 is 272hp!!. No wonder they last so long as the Perkins is only
80hp. The manual says to use the exchanger when operating above 60kw, which equates to 80hp. So it's right on boarder line. I suppose as this 
tranny has lasted this long without any problem everthing should be ok. Just thought you may be interested in this info. Cheers..


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Mike, 

Mostly right… with a few caveats...

First, plugging a 30 amp rated cord into a 50 amp outlet means that the 30 amp cord is not adequately protected.  To be sure, people do this all the time, and almost all of the time, they don’t have a problem  But it is part of the reason that shore power connections are such common sources of insurance claims.

A 30 Amp 110 Volt connection will not power EVERYTHING on a late model Amel SM.  I wasn’t really clear about what I meant.  30 Amps of 110V will let you run the basic features of the boat, but 3 air conditioners, plus a water heater, plus a microwave plus a toaster might be getting to the point you pop a 30 Amp breaker.  16 Amps of 110V power really is not enough for an Amel to support us in the lifestyle to which we are accustomed.  16 Amps of 220V power is about the same as a 30 Amp 110 Volt supply.  Good enough, with a just a bit of care.

Be sure that your 220 cable actually is rated for 30 (or 32) amps.  Some of them are only rated for 16 amps.  You say a “smaller wire”  than the 30 Amp plug. That would be a key clue that it might NOT be a 30 amp cord!  

The 16 Amp 220V cord is rated to supply about the same amount of usable power as the 30 Amp 110 Volt cord.  If you try to pull 30 or 32 amps through that thinner cord for any length of time, you might be in for a very nasty surprise.  It wouldn’t be long before you melted or set the cord on fire, especially where it was coiled in a bundle.  That 32 Amp breaker in the boat is not there to protect the supply cord. If you plug a 16 Amp cord into a 16 Amp shore power supply the breaker in the supply pylon will protect your cord.  If you plug that same cord into a 32 Amp supply, it is now unprotected.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Block Island, RI
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Aug 28, 2016, at 14:18, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hello Bill.

 

I must admit to not being a 100% sure that I have this right, but so far, this is my understanding of our shore power system as used here in the US. I look forward to others’ comments that may enhance/clarify my understanding.

 

Aletes, SM#240, is configured to allow either 110V and 240V shore power here in the US. The plug box on the engine room forward bulkhead has 2 receptacles, one labeled 220 (or 240 as I am working the labeling from memory) and the other I believe 110/220 (also suspect labeling). We plug the male plug into the appropriate receptacle for the shore power cord we are using. 

 

The 110 comes aboard via a 30amp US configured power cord, through the 32amp 110v breaker in the plug box to a 110 to 220v step-up transformer back to the 110/220 receptacle in the plug box. The 240 volt power cord is actually a smaller wire, in our case probably the original European black wire and comes aboard and then directly to the 220v receptacle. 

 

The 220 v boat system is 30 amps max load (breaker on the back/side of the 220v switch panel). However the 220v shoe power cord which is sized for 30 amp has a 50 amp plug on the end at the dock electrical pedestal so that it can access both hot legs of the US 240v system. I suppose this is not the safest since the shore power cord is the weak link between the 30 amp panel breaker and the 50 amp pedestal breaker.

 

End of the day, I believe 30 amp 110V gives you only ½ the total POWER (watts) that 30 amp at 240v yields. Therefore I don’t believe one could run all the equipment on the 220 volt panel at the same time when plugged into 110V, but I haven’t tested that. Also I believe our ONAN generator puts out 30 amp at 220v as a reference.

 

Again, all this is from memory as I am not on the boat, and therefore suspect, but it might get things going for you. It’s a quite Sunday afternoon on land and it’s always nice to be thinking about boaty stuff.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:12 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

 

  

Hello everyone -

 

I know this topic is somewhat (again) like beating a dead horse however, I find that trying to search the forum for answers is very difficult. I am currently running the 30amp cord to my boat and in the last 1+ year I have had no issues running all the systems on the boat via US power (2 phase). The only things I cannot run are the microwave, water maker and central vacuum systems (without running the genset). So I have this 50amp cord sitting in my lazorette that I have never even thought of using. Is it even possible to use this in the US? In the past when I have plugged this in the breaker would trip almost immediately. The shore power box in the engine room has a 32amp breaker on it so it almost seems useless to me however, I know Amel would not install this if that were the case. Can anyone shed some light on my shore power configuration? I know, I know this is a total Amel rookie question and I apologize but it is easier to post a topic then search through the many posts and narrow it down. My lack of knowledge in electrical systems does not help me at all with this basic question and for that I apologize again. 

 

Cheers,

 

Bill Maffei 

SM #195

It's all Good




Bilge Cleaning-Thanks Bill

Eric Freedman
 


alexandre-ac compressor timers

Eric Freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Mike,

Since you also have the optional 110 to 220 volt transformer onboard.
http://nikimat.com/galvanic_isolator/shore_power_tracing_19.jpg
http://nikimat.com/galvanic_isolator/shore_power_tracing_27.jpg

When you are at your boat, is there any chance you could tell me how the 110 Volt shore power is wired to what I assume is you have a 30 Amp 125 Volt US plug
http://www.nikimat.com/shore_power_plug_125_volt.html

Bill can look at the illustration of what you described at:
http://nikimat.com/galvanic_isolator_part_1.html

Therefore, as Olivier confirm us, the 220 volt shore power is rated only for 16 Amp…

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/28/16, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@verizon.net [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2016, 1:18 PM


 









Hello Bill.  I must admit to not being a 100%
sure that I have this right, but so far, this is my
understanding of our shore power system as used here in the
US. I look forward to others’ comments that may
enhance/clarify my understanding.  Aletes, SM#240, is configured to
allow either 110V and 240V shore power here in the US. The
plug box on the engine room forward bulkhead has 2
receptacles, one labeled 220 (or 240 as I am working the
labeling from memory) and the other I believe 110/220 (also
suspect labeling). We plug the male plug into the
appropriate receptacle for the shore power cord we are
using.  The 110 comes aboard via a 30amp
US configured power cord, through the 32amp 110v breaker in
the plug box to a 110 to 220v step-up transformer back to
the 110/220 receptacle in the plug box. The 240 volt power
cord is actually a smaller wire, in our case probably the
original European black wire and comes aboard and then
directly to the 220v receptacle.  The 220 v boat system is 30 amps
max load (breaker on the back/side of the 220v switch
panel). However the 220v shoe power cord which is sized for
30 amp has a 50 amp plug on the end at the dock electrical
pedestal so that it can access both hot legs of the US 240v
system. I suppose this is not the safest since the shore
power cord is the weak link between the 30 amp panel breaker
and the 50 amp pedestal breaker.  End of the day, I believe 30 amp
110V gives you only ½ the total POWER (watts) that 30 amp
at 240v yields. Therefore I don’t believe one could run
all the equipment on the 220 volt panel at the same time
when plugged into 110V, but I haven’t tested that. Also I
believe our ONAN generator puts out 30 amp at 220v as a
reference.  Again, all this is from memory as
I am not on the boat, and therefore suspect, but it might
get things going for you. It’s a quite Sunday afternoon on
land and it’s always nice to be thinking about boaty
stuff.  Mike OndraAletes SM#240  From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:12
PM
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore
power connections (Amel systems
breakdown)    Hello everyone -
 I know this topic is somewhat (again) like beating
a dead horse however, I find that trying to search the forum
for answers is very difficult. I am currently running the
30amp cord to my boat and in the last 1+ year I have had no
issues running all the systems on the boat via US power (2
phase). The only things I cannot run are the microwave,
water maker and central vacuum systems (without running the
genset). So I have this 50amp cord sitting in my lazorette
that I have never even thought of using. Is it even possible
to use this in the US? In the past when I have plugged this
in the breaker would trip almost immediately. The shore
power box in the engine room has a 32amp breaker on it so it
almost seems useless to me however, I know Amel would not
install this if that were the case. Can anyone shed some
light on my shore power configuration? I know, I know this
is a total Amel rookie question and I apologize but it is
easier to post a topic then search through the many posts
and narrow it down. My lack of knowledge in electrical
systems does not help me at all with this basic question and
for that I apologize again.   Cheers,
 Bill Maffei SM #195It's all
Good









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I think having a 16 Amp breaker in a waterproof box is a very good idea.
Better be safe than sorry.

Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/28/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2016, 2:47 PM


 









There is only one foolproof way to prevent a fire
when you use a 16 amp rated cord to plug into a 30 or more
rated plug.  That is to have a 16 amp circuit breaker in a
waterproof box on the SHORE side of the cord as part of the
adapter.  Having a breaker on the boat side of the cord is
better than nothing, but it would not protect against a
short circuit in the cord itself.
Yes, you could monitor the power
draw on a meter.  On my boat that doesn’t work because
the monitoring is done by a fool (me!) who isn’t
perfect.
I know this is not going to be a
popular answer, but it really is the only foolproof way of
doing it.

Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieBlock Island, RI“Ships and men rot in
port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Aug 28, 2016, at 15:21, peacock@nhms.biz
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Well, I'm going to beat this
dead horse some more.
Yes, Olivier's excellent
summary from August 18 should be required reading by
all. However, my
biggest question is, besides installing a multimeter as
Nikimat has, how else can we protect against a fire? A total
of 16 amps, even at 220 V, goes quickly. Pulling into port
on a hot day, turning on three AC units, with a charger
trying to bring back a battery bank that's half dead,
may, I suspect, add up to more than 16 amps. I'm not
even talking about the microwave, dive compressor, and other
items. Have I been living life dangerously? 











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

There is only one foolproof way to prevent a fire when you use a 16 amp rated cord to plug into a 30 or more rated plug.  That is to have a 16 amp circuit breaker in a waterproof box on the SHORE side of the cord as part of the adapter.  Having a breaker on the boat side of the cord is better than nothing, but it would not protect against a short circuit in the cord itself.

Yes, you could monitor the power draw on a meter.  On my boat that doesn’t work because the monitoring is done by a fool (me!) who isn’t perfect.

I know this is not going to be a popular answer, but it really is the only foolproof way of doing it.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Block Island, RI
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Aug 28, 2016, at 15:21, peacock@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Well, I'm going to beat this dead horse some more.


Yes, Olivier's excellent summary from August 18 should be required reading by all. 
However, my biggest question is, besides installing a multimeter as Nikimat has, how else can we protect against a fire? A total of 16 amps, even at 220 V, goes quickly. Pulling into port on a hot day, turning on three AC units, with a charger trying to bring back a battery bank that's half dead, may, I suspect, add up to more than 16 amps. I'm not even talking about the microwave, dive compressor, and other items. Have I been living life dangerously? 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Tom,

I am actually writing down each of the device Amp consumption…
I will post in a little bit.

I think we certainly all have been on the edge without knowing it…
I have used 3 A/C and a better charger (batteries were almost full)
Now that we are educated and that our wire are getting older we will be more careful.

Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/28/16, peacock@nhms.biz [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] US shore power connections (Amel systems breakdown)
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 28, 2016, 2:21 PM


 









Well, I'm going to beat this dead horse some
more.
Yes, Olivier's
excellent summary from August 18 should be required reading
by all. However, my biggest question is, besides
installing a multimeter as Nikimat has, how else can we
protect against a fire? A total of 16 amps, even at 220 V,
goes quickly. Pulling into port on a hot day, turning on
three AC units, with a charger trying to bring back a
battery bank that's half dead, may, I suspect, add up to
more than 16 amps. I'm not even talking about the
microwave, dive compressor, and other items. Have I been
living life dangerously? 









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