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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.


File : /Rudder Drawing 2 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Rudder%20Drawing%202%20of%207.jpg


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bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>


New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.


File : /Rudder Drawing 1 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Rudder%20Drawing%201%20of%207.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,


bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>


Re: DC ground leak

rossirossix4
 

Hi Alan,
I hope you find the source.  We had a similar indication with intermittent low illumination of the Masse neg lamp.  We were wintering in an Italian marina and through observation of their electrician staff I had reservations about how the pedestals were wired and maintained (not sure if this was the problem).  We had a sailboat on our port side that was not plugged in and a slip on our right that was periodically used by various local boats.  Turned out that when certain boats were along side and plugged in the Masse Neg lamp would glow.  We decided that the common ground to the other boats that may have not have been protected or zinc'd well were causing the indication.  Our greater than normal zinc erosion that season seemed to confirm it..  The installation of a galvanic isolator solved it.  Without galvanic isolation, other nearby vessels that are under-zinced can use yours!  If you already have a gav isolater make sure it is wired before the gen/shore power--anywhere before the grounding stud in the gen/shore power box.
Bob KAIMI SM 429


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Yes please!

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9/4/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 12:14 PM


 









I have a copy of Amel’s drawing of the rudder and
steering system.  If somebody is interested, I can post
it.


Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieNarragansett Bay, RI,
USA“Ships and men
rot in port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

Richard, Do you know the
width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea
to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it
to clean the threads up.Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From:
Richard03801 richard03801@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt
threads one size larger to increase the surface area and
provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have
drill the hole in the zinc larger. 
Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard
PillerNewport RI Cell 603 767
5330
On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

 Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves
faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had
560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak
, but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity .
I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the
rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the
zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as
the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris
found its way between the threads I assume that could lower
continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for
the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger
zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than
stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or
quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting
a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but
I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i
nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole .
Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get
some old muck out .I would be interested to know if
you get the number up.
Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 I have recently noticed that one
zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. I believe there are S/S fingers
inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post.
which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an
idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of
the zincs.I also have put a piece of
threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a
lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the
rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with
this 2 foot long piece of rod?I was thinking of making the hole
in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece
of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and
basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would
be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow
outflow of silt and shell pieces.Today I finished cleaning the wet
bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good.
However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the
silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 mv I
dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to
-725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the
same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that
today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again,
any ideas?Fair winds,Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in
Lon Island, NY.Any ideas why? I assume it is the
inactive zinc on the rudder











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

I have a copy of Amel’s drawing of the rudder and steering system.  If somebody is interested, I can post it.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Richard, Do you know the width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.
Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. 
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the 
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

James,

Now that’s a fun fact!  But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else.  Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety.  :-)

I am not aware of  any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat.  I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box. 

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.  
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications.  Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen.  Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint?  Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual?  Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered?  It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them.  A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past.  I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.




On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,


   I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal.  I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work.  I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option.  Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Patrick McAneny
 

Richard, Do you know the width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.
Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon James & Bill,

Very interesting solution there James! I added it to the Illustration.
I have quite a few friends that work at JSC (front and back room), I don’t think they new that!

I just did a genset run, all was good, no water nor exhaust leak, but will replace the Lanocote to something else within 2 weeks.

Thanks again for all your inputs!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico




--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9/4/16, Bill greatketch@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 9:22 AM


 









Alexandre,
I would change the Lanocote.  At
best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it
unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and
potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made
from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive
in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust
manifold.
Bill
On Sep 4,
2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
















 






Good morning Mark & Bill,



Thank you so much for your input.

I just added your note on the illustration.



Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good
(and should change it now)?



Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours,
I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.


Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able
to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build
up.



Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.

Have a great weekend!



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@yahoo.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan
Exhaust Elbow Replacement

To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM





 





















Alexandre,

Great job, and helpful

pictures.

I only have

two comments.

 It is

not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a
high

temperature application like this.  They anneal and
lose

their "spring" and do not do a good job the
second

time around. 

You are

also right to use an anti seize on the bolts,
unfortunately

Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will
not

stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust
manifold.

 For engine work I use a product called

"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher

temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most
of

them are a suspension of powdered copper.

With a new gasket, and clean mating

surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had

previous problems with leaks.  

Bill KinneyHarmonie,

SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA

On Sep 3,

2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

wrote:

































 





















Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM
378,

Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing
Elbow

(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up,
I

decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow,
several

Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive
maintenance,

having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.







For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by
new

maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated
the

“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.







Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made

error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.



I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb
12,

2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High

Temperature RTV…







Here is the link: 



http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html







For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6
sections.









If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full
version

(37 pictures). 







Sincerely, Alexandre



SM2K #289 NIKIMAT



Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico




























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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the inside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

James Alton
 

Bill and Alexandre,

   I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal.  I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work.  I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option.  Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Bill <greatketch@...>
 

Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill,

Thank you so much for your input.
I just added your note on the illustration.

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…



Here is the link: 

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures). 



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Patrick McAneny
 

Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the inside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

James Alton
 

Peter,

   I appreciate your detailed post and also the additional photos showing the underside of the cockpit sole and upper compression post details.  From your photos, it appears that the plate welded on top of the compression posts has been bent into a curve as shown by the straight edge you are holding up to it.  Perhaps the mizzen mast compression loads were quite high at one time.  Have you laid a straight edge across the front side of the mizzen box along the cabin sole by chance to see if there is a depression into the cabin sole under the area of the box?   

   I need to study this in more detail on my own boat but it appears that the mizzen mast compression loading is borne by the outside portion of the fiberglass box and as you point out the footprint of this load is outboard of the positions of the compression posts.  This means that the cabin sole and the plate welded atop the compression posts are responsible for transferring the loads between the compression posts and the outboard edges of the mizzen box.  Certainly the metal plate  welded atop the compression posts is not thick enough to be carrying the loads by itself so I am wondering if there has been some deterioration of a core in the cockpit sole directly under the box?  Have you used something to tap the fibreglass cockpit around the area of the box to see if any portion of it sounds hollow?  I would be curious to know the construction of the cockpit sole directly under the mizzen mast box.  Would it be solid fibreglass, does it have another plate embedded, or does it have a low density core?  

   Looking at the gap you are measuring showing the curve in the plate atop the compression posts, the movement looks about right to allow the mizzen mast box to drop and be damaged as it has so I think that you have found the failure area. 

   I will plan to remove some of the insulation in my engine room to reveal the top plate of my compression posts to see how they look.  I can tell you that the fibreglass mizzen box on Sueno is showing no movement relative to the aft cockpit bulkhead so there cannot be any movement in the plate, but I will check.  I should arrive on the 8th.   The shrouds on the mizzen of my boat can be deflected inwards/outwards with moderate pressure (perhaps 15 lbs.)  2” to give you some idea of the rigging tension.  My broker Michel told me that it is likely that the rigging (which is original) has  never been retuned since Sueno was commissioned so if true she has never been left with tight rigging.    I personally do not like the rigging on my boats to be very tight, especially on wooden or fibreglass boats.  There is a big difference in the short term loading of a boat under sail and a tightly tensioned rig that retains that tension 24/7 out in the hot sun (which temporarily softens/weakens the resin allowing it to change shape) etc.  When under sail, only the windward rigging sees increased tension while the lee side slackens.  When you preload a rig by tightening all of the stays, every stay adds to the compression load and sailing loads are on top of that preload.  Of course you don’t want loose rigging banging around on the lee side but I think that people often tune their boats more tightly than is needed.

   I am thinking that what will need to be done on your boat is to come up with a good way to carry the support of the compression posts, outwards so that this support aligns with the edges of the fibreglass box.  Perhaps a new plate could be added on top or even embedded into the cockpit sole.  Let me know what you find out about the construction and condition of the fibreglass cockpit sole up and under the fibreglass box.  During the interim I would try removing all of the rigging tension on the mizzen and take another measurement across the top plate welded to the compression posts to see how much rebound you have.  There is a chance that the plate welded to the top of the compression posts is not bent as much as it appears and will spring back.  If you need to be sailing the boat for a while, I would remove the rigging tension completely, lightly jack up the bottom of the cockpit under the area of the fibreglass box and install some temporary support as close to the edges of the fibreglass box as possible, and try to keep the rigging preload down.  

   I don’t think that there would have been much benefit to Amel making the mast box and the aft cockpit bulkhead one pc.glassing it together.   The attachment to me looks like it is perfectly adequate for the intended loads.  

Best,

James

On Sep 4, 2016, at 7:05 AM, peterblokpoel@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


I did a full inspection of the box, including the load transferring part in engine room. After cutting away the isolation and cleaning the open space of the ceiling I cannot detect any cracks or faults in the construction. The darker spots are leftovers from the glue wich is impossible for me to remove at the moment. 
There is a sort of doubling plate on top of the compressionposts and this is not in a perfect  straight line but this is the case with all of the ceiling. I imagine the constructors did not care much for esthetics for this part of construction.
However I took a ruler and held it against the bottom side of the doubling plate and this got me worried a bit. I added the photos to the same album and do hope they are clear enough.

The two verticals of the box are basicly the only parts that (as far as I can see now) transfer the compression loads to the posts and are not perfectl y centered over the posts below. I measure 3 cm difference on both sides. That means the glassfibre vertical parts of the box are 3 cm to the outside compared to the centreline of the posts. It is difficult to be more precise.

Maybe it is too much to ask but it would be a great help if you could check the situation and state of the doubling plate on your boat. Maybe take a picture so we can compare?

The box and seats are one part I am sure and only bolted to the bulkhead and cockpit floor.. As you can see on the photos there is a flanged metal strip on both sides of the top inside of the box. This is where the cracks are visible on the outside of the box. At the bottom of the box (inside the  2 open storage compartments on both sides of the box) there is a single bolt wich attaches the box to the floor. There is no permanent connection anywhere else, let alone a solid glassfibre connection between bulkhead and box. The n uts of the latter are laminated in in the ceiling of the engine room.

The rigging on my boat was renewed in dec. 2012 and this was done by a specialist sailmaker/rigger in Heyeres. A company well known by Amel in the same place on the med. coast in south of France.
I tightened the rigging only slightly after sailing back to Holland ( 1,5 turns on each turnbuckle.)
I do not know the exact tension/load in numbers. I loosened all the mizzen mast turnbuckles 2 turns now and will see what happens in the next few days. I did the same with the main backstay.

Let me know your thoughts and findings

Best regards, Peter





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Mark & Bill,

Thank you so much for your input.
I just added your note on the illustration.

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?


Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.


Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…



Here is the link: 

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures). 



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

karkauai
 

Hi Eric,
I think you have found the reason for your "under-zincing".  How does the bolt look on the zinc that isn't active?  Rusty?  I would clean the bolt threads well, and get a small round wire brush to clean the female threads in the rudder.  Look at the interface between the bolt and the zinc, too.
I would also disconnect from shore power and turn off both battery switches (or disconnect positive and negative from both 12v and 24v battery systems), and check hull potential again.  If it comes back to -900mv or better, you probably have a current leak, too.  -675mv is quite a bit higher (less negative) than it should be and puts you at significant risk of damage to underwater metals.  Until you get it sorted out, hang enough zinc over the side to bring your hull potential back to -900mv or better.
Tell us what you find.
Kent
SM243
Kristy

Kent Robertson
828-234-6819 voice/text

On Sep 4, 2016, at 4:41 AM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.

I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the

zincs.

I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?

I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.

Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675

mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?

Fair winds,

Eric

SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.

Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC ground leak

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Alan,

It is very interesting it goes on and off…
If it was from one of the heads, have you thought of may be using only 1 for a couple of days, then use the other one?

Hope you find the problem.

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 9/3/16, divanz620@yahoo.fr [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC ground leak
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 11:56 PM


 









Thanks Alexandre,
Today it's gone again, the light
doesn't light up, but next time it does I will do as you
suggestCheers
AlanElyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Rigging tune on Maramu caused damage

Peter Blokpoel
 

James,

I did a full inspection of the box, including the load transferring part in engine room. After cutting away the isolation and cleaning the open space of the ceiling I cannot detect any cracks or faults in the construction. The darker spots are leftovers from the glue wich is impossible for me to remove at the moment. 
There is a sort of doubling plate on top of the compressionposts and this is not in a perfect  straight line but this is the case with all of the ceiling. I imagine the constructors did not care much for esthetics for this part of construction.
However I took a ruler and held it against the bottom side of the doubling plate and this got me worried a bit. I added the photos to the same album and do hope they are clear enough.

The two verticals of the box are basicly the only parts that (as far as I can see now) transfer the compression loads to the posts and are not perfectly centered over the posts below. I measure 3 cm difference on both sides. That means the glassfibre vertical parts of the box are 3 cm to the outside compared to the centreline of the posts. It is difficult to be more precise.

Maybe it is too much to ask but it would be a great help if you could check the situation and state of the doubling plate on your boat. Maybe take a picture so we can compare?

The box and seats are one part I am sure and only bolted to the bulkhead and cockpit floor.. As you can see on the photos there is a flanged metal strip on both sides of the top inside of the box. This is where the cracks are visible on the outside of the box. At the bottom of the box (inside the  2 open storage compartments on both sides of the box) there is a single bolt wich attaches the box to the floor. There is no permanent connection anywhere else, let alone a solid glassfibre connection between bulkhead and box. The nuts of the latter are laminated in in the ceiling of the engine room.

The rigging on my boat was renewed in dec. 2012 and this was done by a specialist sailmaker/rigger in Heyeres. A company well known by Amel in the same place on the med. coast in south of France.
I tightened the rigging only slightly after sailing back to Holland ( 1,5 turns on each turnbuckle.)
I do not know the exact tension/load in numbers. I loosened all the mizzen mast turnbuckles 2 turns now and will see what happens in the next few days. I did the same with the main backstay.

Let me know your thoughts and findings

Best regards, Peter



Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

kimberlite@...
 


Fuel gauge/strip accuracy.

jgermain@...
 

Greetings Wise Ones,


A few days ago, I ran the fuel tank down to ... safe low limit.. but I was wondering how accurate are the "remaining fuel" marks on the stick.


Anyone ever do a check?


Fair winds Brothers and Sisters :-)


Jean-Pierre Germain

Eleuthera, SM 007


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] DC ground leak

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Alexandre,

Today it's gone again, the light doesn't light up, but next time it does I will do as you suggest
Cheers

Alan
Elyse SM437