Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Over time in the rudder the threads get a bit soft tending to not conduct well. So a size bigger generally solved the problem.  

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Richard, Do you know the width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.
Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder


Re: Introduction / new owner SM#351

rcavie <no_reply@...>
 

Niels
I am looking an Amel Super Maramu. In this group you told us you were the new owner of Bigouz. But I see Bigouz again on sale. 
May I know why are you selling Bigouz again?
Thank you
Rafael


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

James,

Tefgel and stainless machine screws are the perfect solution to attaching things to aluminum spars.  I have had no trouble at all disassembling screws that have been in place for 15 years that were installed with tef-gel.  I know, because I put them in, and then took them out a decade and a half later.  Compare this to the trouble people have trying to take out the aluminum bolts that Amel used in an effort to avoid the issue. One of those things that must have "seemed like a great idea at the time” that didn’t work quite as well as expected.

The Bostik brand of Marine grade “Never-Seez” has “active” ingredients of copper and aluminum powder—no graphite.  I have used it on stainless steel piping carrying salt water and not had any issues. I have used it on bolts going into aluminum engine blocks without a problem.

Graphite packing material is one of those things that sounds like a great idea…  until you actually use it in salt water and your shaft erodes away.  When I was taking care of boats with stuffing boxes, I had great luck with the teflon based “Drip-Less” packing.

The blue loctite I like best is a gel or paste that comes in a tube like lipstick.  It is Loctite #248.  You have to look a little harder for it than your local hardware store, it is not on their list of “consumer” products.  As far as I can tell it has a very long self life.  Or at least, I lose mine before it goes bad!

One place that care needs to be taken with thread lubricants: If there is a torque specification on the bolt. The lubricated bolts put a LOT more tension on things than threads assembled dry.  You need to be sure that you follow the design specifications. 


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Sep 4, 2016, at 17:03, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill,


   Yes, apparently the “unflavoured” requirement was written right into the manual according to a good friend that worked with on the shuttle. (grin)

   I have had great luck with the Tef-gel,  especially when installing stainless fasteners in aluminum spars a very useful product.

   Have you ever seen any pitting or corrosion issues when using the never seize on pipe connections that are immersed in salt water?  I am pretty sure that some types of never seize contain graphite, which is quite high on the galvanic scale.  I have never seen a problem myself to date from using the product in that application but have seen corrosion issues on stainless prop shafts from using graphite impregnated packing so worry a little.  I definitely agree that something must be on stainless to stainless pipe joints.  

   What type of container do you buy your Blue Loc-tite in?  It seems that once opened the little squeeze tubes seep/leak.

   It really sounds like you know your how to deal with fasteners in the Marine environment..if there is a next owner to your boat, he is going to be a lucky guy when the time comes to take something apart!   Good point about taking new hardware apart to lube up the fastenings before putting it into service.  

   One of my first jobs when I get back to my boat will be to remove the bow thruster that has not been serviced in quite a few years.  Thankfully it appears that the previous owner was very careful about preventing corrosion since there appears to be plenty of grease between the tube and the motor and no obvious corrosion.  A dab of the right goo early can sure save a lot of stress and heartache later. 

    I have had really good luck by the way with using the special (which translates to expensive) Vari-prop grease (it appears to be a white lithium)  for winches, windlass clutch cones, applications where salt water tends to wash the lubricant away.  This stuff really seems to stay put and being white does not stain sails and lines too bad.  When you try to wash this stuff off of your hands, you understand why it takes so long for the Ocean to do the same!  

   Thanks for the tips,  if you have any more to share please do!

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Sardinia

On Sep 4, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


Now that’s a fun fact!  But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else.  Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety.  :-)

I am not aware of  any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat.  I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box. 

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.  
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications.  Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen.  Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint?  Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual?  Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered?  It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them.  A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past.  I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.




On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,


   I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal.  I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work.  I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option.  Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

James Alton
 

Bill,

   Yes, apparently the “unflavoured” requirement was written right into the manual according to a good friend that worked with on the shuttle. (grin)

   I have had great luck with the Tef-gel,  especially when installing stainless fasteners in aluminum spars a very useful product.

   Have you ever seen any pitting or corrosion issues when using the never seize on pipe connections that are immersed in salt water?  I am pretty sure that some types of never seize contain graphite, which is quite high on the galvanic scale.  I have never seen a problem myself to date from using the product in that application but have seen corrosion issues on stainless prop shafts from using graphite impregnated packing so worry a little.  I definitely agree that something must be on stainless to stainless pipe joints.  

   What type of container do you buy your Blue Loc-tite in?  It seems that once opened the little squeeze tubes seep/leak.

   It really sounds like you know your how to deal with fasteners in the Marine environment..if there is a next owner to your boat, he is going to be a lucky guy when the time comes to take something apart!   Good point about taking new hardware apart to lube up the fastenings before putting it into service.  

   One of my first jobs when I get back to my boat will be to remove the bow thruster that has not been serviced in quite a few years.  Thankfully it appears that the previous owner was very careful about preventing corrosion since there appears to be plenty of grease between the tube and the motor and no obvious corrosion.  A dab of the right goo early can sure save a lot of stress and heartache later. 

    I have had really good luck by the way with using the special (which translates to expensive) Vari-prop grease (it appears to be a white lithium)  for winches, windlass clutch cones, applications where salt water tends to wash the lubricant away.  This stuff really seems to stay put and being white does not stain sails and lines too bad.  When you try to wash this stuff off of your hands, you understand why it takes so long for the Ocean to do the same!  

   Thanks for the tips,  if you have any more to share please do!

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Sardinia

On Sep 4, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


Now that’s a fun fact!  But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else.  Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety.  :-)

I am not aware of  any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat.  I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box. 

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.  
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications.  Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen.  Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint?  Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual?  Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered?  It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them.  A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past.  I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.




On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,


   I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal.  I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work.  I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option.  Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Eric Freedman
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

I posted images of the drawing I have in a new folder “Amel Drawings”

This drawing is dated 1988, so it is from the very earliest production of the Super Maramu.  I do not know idea if there were subsequent changes.  This drawing was included in Amel’s delivery information package for my boat, #160 in 1996, so I think it is safe to assume that it was current at least that long.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:27, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Yes please!

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 9/4/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 12:14 PM


 









I have a copy of Amel’s drawing of the rudder and
steering system.  If somebody is interested, I can post
it.


Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieNarragansett Bay, RI,
USA“Ships and men
rot in port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Richard, Do you know the
width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea
to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it
to clean the threads up.Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From:
Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt
threads one size larger to increase the surface area and
provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have
drill the hole in the zinc larger. 
Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard
PillerNewport RI Cell 603 767
5330
On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

 Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves
faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had
560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak
, but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity .
I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the
rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the
zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as
the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris
found its way between the threads I assume that could lower
continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for
the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger
zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than
stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or
quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting
a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but
I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i
nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole .
Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get
some old muck out .I would be interested to know if
you get the number up.
Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 I have recently noticed that one
zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. I believe there are S/S fingers
inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post.
which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an
idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of
the zincs.I also have put a piece of
threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a
lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the
rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with
this 2 foot long piece of rod?I was thinking of making the hole
in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece
of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and
basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would
be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow
outflow of silt and shell pieces.Today I finished cleaning the wet
bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good.
However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the
silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 mv I
dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to
-725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the
same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that
today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again,
any ideas?Fair winds,Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in
Lon Island, NY.Any ideas why? I assume it is the
inactive zinc on the rudder











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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 7 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu




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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 6 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu


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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 5 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu




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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 4 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu


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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 3 of 7.jpg
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Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu




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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 2 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu




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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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File : /Amel Drawings/Rudder Drawing 1 of 7.jpg
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Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu




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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
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File : /Rudder Drawing 2 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Rudder%20Drawing%202%20of%207.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

amelyachtowners@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners
group.


File : /Rudder Drawing 1 of 7.jpg
Uploaded by : bill_9895 <greatketch@yahoo.com>
Description : Early Rudder drawing (SM#3 1988) for Super Maramu


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Rudder%20Drawing%201%20of%207.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Re: DC ground leak

rossirossix4
 

Hi Alan,
I hope you find the source.  We had a similar indication with intermittent low illumination of the Masse neg lamp.  We were wintering in an Italian marina and through observation of their electrician staff I had reservations about how the pedestals were wired and maintained (not sure if this was the problem).  We had a sailboat on our port side that was not plugged in and a slip on our right that was periodically used by various local boats.  Turned out that when certain boats were along side and plugged in the Masse Neg lamp would glow.  We decided that the common ground to the other boats that may have not have been protected or zinc'd well were causing the indication.  Our greater than normal zinc erosion that season seemed to confirm it..  The installation of a galvanic isolator solved it.  Without galvanic isolation, other nearby vessels that are under-zinced can use yours!  If you already have a gav isolater make sure it is wired before the gen/shore power--anywhere before the grounding stud in the gen/shore power box.
Bob KAIMI SM 429


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Yes please!

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9/4/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2016, 12:14 PM


 









I have a copy of Amel’s drawing of the rudder and
steering system.  If somebody is interested, I can post
it.


Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieNarragansett Bay, RI,
USA“Ships and men
rot in port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

Richard, Do you know the
width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea
to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it
to clean the threads up.Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From:
Richard03801 richard03801@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt
threads one size larger to increase the surface area and
provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have
drill the hole in the zinc larger. 
Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard
PillerNewport RI Cell 603 767
5330
On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick
Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

 Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves
faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had
560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak
, but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity .
I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the
rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the
zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as
the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris
found its way between the threads I assume that could lower
continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for
the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger
zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than
stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or
quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting
a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but
I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i
nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole .
Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get
some old muck out .I would be interested to know if
you get the number up.
Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@optonline.net [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4,
2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners]
Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 I have recently noticed that one
zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. I believe there are S/S fingers
inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post.
which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an
idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of
the zincs.I also have put a piece of
threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a
lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the
rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with
this 2 foot long piece of rod?I was thinking of making the hole
in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece
of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and
basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would
be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow
outflow of silt and shell pieces.Today I finished cleaning the wet
bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good.
However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the
silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 mv I
dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to
-725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the
same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that
today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again,
any ideas?Fair winds,Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in
Lon Island, NY.Any ideas why? I assume it is the
inactive zinc on the rudder











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

I have a copy of Amel’s drawing of the rudder and steering system.  If somebody is interested, I can post it.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Richard, Do you know the width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.
Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. 
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the 
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

James,

Now that’s a fun fact!  But I guess magnesium hydroxide could be as good a thread lubricant as anything else.  Just be sure to use the “unflavored” variety.  :-)

I am not aware of  any single thread lubricant or anti-seaze that works in every situation on a boat.  I generally keep a few kinds in my tool box. 

A teflon based product like Tef-Gel for stainless screws into aluminum, and stainless-on-stainless threads under high load.  
Lanocote, for lots of general purpose applications.
Marine-grade Never-Seeze for most everything on the engine and any other high temperature applications.  Also good for preventing galling with stainless-on-stainless pipe threads.
Blue Loctite for things that need help staying together.

They all do something a bit different from each other, and which one that gets used depends on what I want to happen.  Do I want to lubricate the threads to make a tighter joint?  Is it a part that gets wet so galvanic isolation important? Is the temperature range unusual?  Is it an electrical connection so conductivity needs to be considered?  It is really rare that threads get tightened on my boat without something on them.

Just as an aside, one of the things that I find makes my future life happier is anytime I buy a new piece of equipment, especially if it has stainless screws, is I pull all the screws out and lubricate them.  A future disassembly then has much less aggravation.

Of course, these are the brands that I use because they are easily available to me, and have been good to me in the past.  I am sure there are lots of others that are at least as good.




On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,


   I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal.  I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work.  I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option.  Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

Patrick McAneny
 

Richard, Do you know the width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.
Thanks,Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 
Capt Richard Piller
Newport RI 
Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .
I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 
I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.
I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the
zincs.
I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?
I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.
Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675
mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?
Fair winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.
Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder